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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 05:07:01
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It is returned Abeir, but it is from Ed 
14 page article in Dragon #372 on returned Tarmalune. Nice map.
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 06:04:36
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
It is returned Abeir, but it is from Ed
14 page article in Dragon #372 on returned Tarmalune. Nice map.
-Thanks for the heads up. I will surely check it out in the morning. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 07:39:05
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Until they come up with something other than the "buy everything or buy nothing!" approach to DDI, I'm not giving them a cent. Which sucks, because I would like to read this article.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 07:41:32
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| I'm pretty much the same way. I'd love to read something written by Ed, but it's not worth $20 a month. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 07:54:01
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| And like I said over on the WoTC forums, it'd be nice if it were on a city that actually existed in the Realms. Suzail might be a nice choice, for instance. (Post War of the Devil Dragon, of course) |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 12:07:29
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
I'm pretty much the same way. I'd love to read something written by Ed, but it's not worth $20 a month.
According to the DDI the subscription rate is $7.95 for a month. Which is almost the cost of the old Dragon Magazine from Pazio ($7.99).
The cost for a month also nets you Dungeon too.
A 14 page article by Ed detailing a city in the Forgotten Realms. I’m drooling.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 13:19:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Until they come up with something other than the "buy everything or buy nothing!" approach to DDI, I'm not giving them a cent. Which sucks, because I would like to read this article.
I kinda agree. I'm very tempted to sign-up for a DDi subscription simply because this is an article by Ed. But I know I'll have no use for all the rules stuff and other mechanics-related aspects that come with the subscription. I'm just not sure what to do.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 23 Feb 2009 13:20:42 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 13:57:14
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-The city is of course divided into wards. One is called "Fishstink".  The City has a gigantic Pillar of Fire that never burns out, sailors use it as a beacon. Good stuff. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 14:28:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
I'm pretty much the same way. I'd love to read something written by Ed, but it's not worth $20 a month.
According to the DDI the subscription rate is $7.95 for a month. Which is almost the cost of the old Dragon Magazine from Pazio ($7.99).
The cost for a month also nets you Dungeon too.
A 14 page article by Ed detailing a city in the Forgotten Realms. I’m drooling.
But I don't care about Dungeon. And I don't care about any other articles. So we're talking about spending $8 for only 14 pages of content.
I am not going to pay for stuff I have no use for. A lesser amount, such as a per-issue or a per-article price, would be something I'd be willing to pay.
$8 isn't a lot, but it's the principle of the thing. When WotC goes back to giving me what I want, then I'll go back to giving them money. Not until then. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 15:39:21
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| Something like this makes it hard to not have DDI. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 16:37:40
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I'm going to have to join-in with the "too bad I won't be able to read this" group.
I don't have any use for MOST of the DDi, and paying for one possible article a month is senseless to me, no matter who wrote it. The only people who should bother with the DDi are folks who are going 4e, because if your not, it doesn't serve much of a purpose.
And to prove my point, Ed's article is about a place that simply doesn't exist for a majority of us here.
I'd like to see the map... but I'm sure I can get a copy from someone if I really wanted it. I'd like to see how close my version is to their's, now that they decided to use real maps for 4e. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 17:06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
$8 isn't a lot, but it's the principle of the thing. When WotC goes back to giving me what I want, then I'll go back to giving them money. Not until then.
You aren't the only one Wooly.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And to prove my point, Ed's article is about a place that simply doesn't exist for a majority of us here.
That too, unfortunately  |
Edited by - arry on 23 Feb 2009 17:10:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 17:13:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And to prove my point, Ed's article is about a place that simply doesn't exist for a majority of us here.
That's another major factor for me. I'd love to read this article, but the fact that it's for the Shattered Realms seriously cuts down the appeal.
If they continued the (pre-Sellplague!) Border Kingdoms articles, I'd be a lot more likely to get into DDI. If there was other worthwhile pre-Sellplague material offered on top of that, I'd be signing up right now. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 17:26:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
I'm pretty much the same way. I'd love to read something written by Ed, but it's not worth $20 a month.
According to the DDI the subscription rate is $7.95 for a month. Which is almost the cost of the old Dragon Magazine from Pazio ($7.99).
The cost for a month also nets you Dungeon too.
A 14 page article by Ed detailing a city in the Forgotten Realms. I’m drooling.
But I don't care about Dungeon. And I don't care about any other articles. So we're talking about spending $8 for only 14 pages of content.
I am not going to pay for stuff I have no use for. A lesser amount, such as a per-issue or a per-article price, would be something I'd be willing to pay.
$8 isn't a lot, but it's the principle of the thing. When WotC goes back to giving me what I want, then I'll go back to giving them money. Not until then.
I made it a point to buy off the news stand the Dragon issues which had Forgotten Realms articles. It was my belief that some bean counter would wonder why certain issues would go up and then connect the dots to certain letters arriving in their offices. Now as it stands, I wrote a physical letter after being prodded by someone on this board over what I excepted to see (or wanted to see more of) in Dragon magazine. I said Ed Greenwood articles (check), more Realms articles (check), and more to the point, information about Returned Abeir. (check)
Now it’s my turn to keep up the end of the bargain, they listened to me and now they get my money. The extra Dungeon magazine is a bonus. If they continue to support the Realms with good material or Ed then they will get more of my money, I would even sign up for a subscription.
Of course, the fact my eight bucks will not go towards a viewing of Coraline saddens me, maybe next month.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 17:55:04
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| Since I play in two separate 4E campaigns, and have made use of the Character Generator supllied by DDI (through one of the DMs) and found that very usefull, I will now consider asking the boss (my fiancee) to get a subscription. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 19:17:44
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And because you play in 4e, I would actually recommend it.
From what I understand, the character generator is excellent, and extremely helpful to 4e DMs and players (who obviously don't have the time or where-withal to generate their own characters).
Of course, its my understanding that most of that generator was stolen code and ideas from others, but it's still useful, and I'd still recommend it (I have nothing against legal piracy - Microsoft made an industry out of it).
In fact, to be honest, if I ever become a 4e player or DM, I would probably subscribe... but not a moment before. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2009 19:18:15 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 19:28:27
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| Yeah it actually even opened my eyes to a few rules that I wasn't sure on (the abil. mod + 1/2 level applies to attacks but not to damage, feat bonuses don't stack i.e. Dwarven Weapon Training doesn't stack with Weapon Focus)...learning as I go along |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2009 : 23:12:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If they continued the (pre-Sellplague!) Border Kingdoms articles, I'd be a lot more likely to get into DDI.
I recall Ed telling me that he'd try to have the rest of the BK articles shifted to DDi at some point. Which is something I've long been hoping for, given my love for the region.
quote:
If there was other worthwhile pre-Sellplague material offered on top of that, I'd be signing up right now.
I'm somewhat the opposite. I'd likely purchase and read post-Spellplague material [depending on the author of those articles], and any other FR articles published [again, depending on the authorship] as part of the DDi. But it's the rules/mechanics portion of the subscription that's holding me back. I'm not handing out hard-earned gold pieces for something I'm never going to use. And I'm not just saying that, nor would I count myself among the "anti-4e-rules-league." I don't have any real feelings about the 4e rules -- good or bad. The rules set I use for my campaigns is constructed from elements drawn from many different RPG rules sets. So I really don't have much need for anything with respect to the 4e rules, because I'm not using them.
Now, if I could just sign up for the lore articles and the like, I'd probably have a DDi subscription already. But I don't need all that other stuff. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 00:59:06
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quote:
And to prove my point, Ed's article is about a place that simply doesn't exist for a majority of us here.
Exactly. The city may as well be in Eberron for all the relevance it has to the Realms. If/When the DDi stuff talks about the Realms, I'll be happy to consider subscribing.
But alas, WoTC don't want to do that. (And yes, I mean pre-Sellplague Realms) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 01:20:45
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| I'm in the same boat with some other people here--I'm still unmoved to buy DDI just for this article. Also, for me this isn't Realmslore, though it's still valuable "Ed-lore" and the type of thing I could find some way to use. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 02:14:48
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well, dang, I was not trying to start a negative type thread I thought this one would be more positive.
Well, the article is excellent, even if on Returned Abeir, which many here do not include in their realms. I truly understand many of your points of why you would not want a subscription. I wish there was a way to share this article without any copy right type issues, because it really is good content. I hope WOTC ramps up this type of article and gives us more realms lore. If so, I think many of you would at least consider checking it out. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 02:17:21
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I wish there was a way to share this article without any copy right type issues, because it really is good content.
 Arrgh, because piracy is just wrong!
Ninja, however...  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 12:11:04
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| This seems to me to be an attempt by WotC to give us what we want (more stuff by Ed.), while keeping to their stated policy (no pre-Spellplague material). Unfortunately, as post-Spellplague stuff is useless to me, I shan't be buying. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 16:09:54
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Right, its an attempt to give us Realmslore (as promised, BTW), but not what most fans want, or what most fans - including 4e ones - will ever use.
'Edlore' is great (and thank you for that term Rinon), and can be used anywhere - I just need to break-out my trusty, magical Shoehorn of the Gamemaster. Ergo, if I were using 4e rules (and subscribing to the then-useful DDi), I would take his lore and place it somewhere where my PCs might actualy run into it.
As of right now, I know of NO ONE 3e or 4e, using Returned Abeir. Even the pro-4e people are like "what am I supposed to do with that? I'm running the Realms now..."
The truth is, it's even less useful then the original Maztica - at least Maztica was different enough from Faerûn to make the trip worthwhile, but this is like me (an American) taking a trip to canada.
I've been there... and I couldn't tell... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2009 16:12:17 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 18:04:57
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I refrained from saying anything, given my hostility towards anything 4e, but I have to join the choir of those saying that the article is useless to me. Bugger it is, as well, because if Wizards were smart they would intentionally add pre-Smellplague Realmslore to Dragon just to haul in more fishes. Then again, if it was just about making a buck, Wizards could have done a revision of all the Realms-supplements from 1st and 2nd edition with only a slight, time-relevant, change, add a few PrCs and be done with it.
No, wait, they are about making a buck... but are they going about it a sensible way...frak no!
I regret saying this...again... but their Realms are dead, and Ed's probably doing what he can to keep it alive, but to me the official Realms are no more...
/gets too much into RANT-mode and shuffles off |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 18:13:54
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Not to harp (okay... maybe just a little...)
I'm starting to feel like the obstinant child holding his mouth tightly shut, while his Mom is trying force-feed him nasty peas.
I never liked peas, I never ate peas as a child, and even when my wife (rarely) made them, I would make faces at my kids and stick my finger down my throat and make gagging noises.
yes... I am still a child (haven't you figure that out yet? )
Anyway, the point is, when we don't want to 'eat' something, stop trying to force it down our throats. Its like they are completely incapable of doing anything but what THEY want. Most companies learn from their mistakes and move on - WotC embraces them.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2009 18:14:42 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 18:50:35
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| Folks, we are really drifting from the topic, here... Let's bring it back to DDI and this article by Ed, please. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 07:55:37
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I liked the map, but I wondered if the streets were drawn to wide -- it is probably just scale, but it makes the city look like a lot of open space witha a fe houses put on.
I didn't read through everything yet. The douse wizard (or whatever it was called) was a cool idea. I may use that idea elsewhere.
Returned Abeir is not (yet) something I use myself. It sort of feels like a seperate setting, and maybe it should have been treated as such (as an expansion to the Realms, rather than 'part of' the Realms). It is as connected to Faerun as Zakhara or Kara-Tur. You can use it, but it is a bloody long trip to get there...
Still, I can see a connection between Waterdeep and Tarmalune. And who knows, there could be a few portals in the Fall of Stars that connect to a tavern in the city... have to read the article better to see if there are any hints.
Gomez,
probably the only one on these boards who likes 4thed... (well, a significant enough part of it, anyway)
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 16:35:54
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| The fact that Wizards.com is blocked at my workplace is swaying me to not subscribe to DDI...oh such a difficult decision. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 16:39:09
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quote:
Originally posted by gomez
Gomez,
probably the only one on these boards who likes 4thed... (well, a significant enough part of it, anyway)
I like 4E. I play in two separate 4E campaigns currently (one is set in a DMs crested world, the other one we are running the published adventures set in Fallcrest et al., currently in Thunderspire Labyrinth).
I am currently planning to finally run my own campaign (I only DMed one session of 4E, butso far it seems lots easier)...it will of course be a realms campaign...so I can't say what 4E realms is like to play in yet. But definately, I enjoy D&D 4E (and I still enjoy 3.5E as well) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 17:02:00
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So we have two 'pros' - one saying he doesn't think he'll bother to subscibe to the DDi, and another who says he doesn't use Returned Abeir. Interesting...
Like I said... I don't even know any 4e people using Returned Abeir - and yet we get an article on it (right after one about using Warforged in th Realms). Its like they are trying to force the fans to use certain things, which isn't the way it should work with RPGs.
And now, before I get a second warning from our Hamster-at-large - that was the entire point of my last post, and relates to the topic: No matter how good an article is (and I'm sure this one is excellent), who's 'agenda' are these articles serving? Certainly not mine, nor anyone else I know playing in ANY edition.
Two 'Realmslore' articles in MONTHS, and neither one of them really had to do with the Realms at all, when you come right down to it. 
Anyway, this is also being discussed at WotC, and like usual, most people (including the 4e ones) are trying to figure out how to use Laerakond in their games. Since I'm sure this will be a series, and Ed is trying his hardest to make it work, and this is likely to be the ONLY official Ed-written Realmslore we are ever going to see anymore, I've done a mock-up of another possible placement for Returned Abeir in a 3e (or even 4e) game -
Alternate placement for Laerakond
I posted that at WotC yesterday, but I realize some of you don't go there, so I thought I'd put it here as well. Despite my constant negativity, I AM trying to make this work. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Feb 2009 04:12:57 |
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Topic |
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Finally, A DDI article by Ed
