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draethe
Acolyte
Australia
12 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Apr 2009 : 02:41:07
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Im not keen on seeing crenshinibon again but hopefully he comes at it from a fresh angle. Like some others here i didnt like pirate king that much. Still i love drizzt novels so i can only hope that the trilogy has a good ending.
With regards to the spell plague. I cant say i like the direction the realms is heading in. Its seems like more is being taken away from the realms than is being created during the spell plague. Sure change can be a good thing, but from the small amount of detail i can garner so far about the spell plague it seems like alot of favourite characters and locations are going to be no more after this. We are going to need some quality new ideas and characters to replace the old and from the handful of post spell plague books ive read we arent getting them yet. Its still early in the play yet so i guess all i can do is hope and wait.
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
92 Posts |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 02:06:43
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Another Dracolich?
I am glad Cadderly is going to be in it, even if we know it is going to end badly for his Cathedral, but I am disappointed Creshinibon is back. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 15:46:50
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Guen looks like she's getting tossed about a bit. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 04:20:26
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| Hmmm.....Interesting cover. Though I dont think it's going to be the Dragons from Icewind Dale or The Canticle. Since the last place we saw Crenshinabon was in Hephaestes lair my take is that Cren took over Hephaestes and transformed him into the Draco-lich. By combining the power of the seven liches. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 20:39:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Guen looks like she's getting tossed about a bit.
I would say that it's unlikely the scene on the book depicts an actual event from the book. I'm sure there's going to be a battle with a dragon involved somewhere, but Lockwood's covers on the newer Drizzt books have been more iconic than literal. They're great covers, but they don't depict an actual scene from the book. That being said, I don't like the idea of Guen being tossed around either. Now Pwent... |
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
92 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2009 : 15:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
Hmmm.....Interesting cover. Though I dont think it's going to be the Dragons from Icewind Dale or The Canticle. Since the last place we saw Crenshinabon was in Hephaestes lair my take is that Cren took over Hephaestes and transformed him into the Draco-lich. By combining the power of the seven liches.
That would be a story that I'd definitely be interested in reading!  |
"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2009 : 17:27:54
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quote:
Originally posted by mnb128
I would say that it's unlikely the scene on the book depicts an actual event from the book.
Doesn't matter to me, I was just commenting on what I saw. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
92 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2009 : 18:21:24
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| Does anybody know if this will be the last Drizzt book that Salvatore writes? It seems like it will be the last book featuring the Companions of the Hall but has it been stated anywhere whether or not Salvatore will write more books about Drizzt? We know he survives the Spellplague and I loved the prologue of The Orc King. I'd love to see more novels featuring Drizzt with other characters. |
"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 06:44:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Does anybody know if this will be the last Drizzt book that Salvatore writes? It seems like it will be the last book featuring the Companions of the Hall but has it been stated anywhere whether or not Salvatore will write more books about Drizzt? We know he survives the Spellplague and I loved the prologue of The Orc King. I'd love to see more novels featuring Drizzt with other characters.
I, for one, would love to see the continuation of Drizzt as a loner. My favorite Drizzt book remains Sojourn, when for much of the novel he was off on his own. Although I enjoy the companions of the hall, many of the recent Drizzt books have gotten somewhat bogged down because there are too many characters to keep up with and not enough time devoted to any one character. Give me a lonely, wandering drow out in the wilderness discovering the farthest reaches of Faerun and I would be content. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 19:01:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Does anybody know if this will be the last Drizzt book that Salvatore writes? It seems like it will be the last book featuring the Companions of the Hall but has it been stated anywhere whether or not Salvatore will write more books about Drizzt?
No, it has not been stated, either way. RAS said this recently in his forums:
quote:
[...T]he book [The Ghost King] is about the change in the Forgotten Realms, the Spellplague and the end of...well, for me, an era. To begin writing every day, I'd go to youtube and pull up three specific musical clips of a favorite muse to put myself squarely in the emotional mindset I encountered when writing "Mortalis," because these old friends, the Companions of the Hall, demanded no less from me. Most of my writing was done through tears. (<19-FEB-2009>)
That sounds like a definite end for the Companions. But it's unclear if it's also an effective end for Drizzt.
RAS has also pointed out that his contract with WOTC currently only calls for one more book (after TGK), and that will probably be a Zaknafein & Jarlaxle background piece. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 15:01:45
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Well I just finished reading the excerpt of TGK in the back of the Pb version of TPK and I would like to point out 2 things
1. It looks like it takes place at the beginning of the spellplague and will be seen through the eyes of NPC's and commonfolk alike( might be a good pick-up for fans looking for more lore even if you're not into RAS or Drizzt)
2. Jarlaxle is in it as well as Heph(red dragon from SotS and Sojourn)now while I'm not sure if heph is TGK I am sure he's the draco-lich on the cover.
This looks like a good one for fans(like me) and if you're not eh to each his/her own :) |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2009 : 20:18:09
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As many have wondered, what's the deal with the return of Crenshinibon? I have ventured forth with some notes from the books and speculation . . .
We're just gonna have to wait and see what sort of explanation RAS gives us for how the Shard survived when we read TGK.
But for now, ask yourself, was it truly "destroyed" . . . or only damaged?
(One hellaciously-long spoiler follows.)
[Spoiler ]
Yes, yes, I know we've been told:
quote:
The wyrm marveled as a skeletal shadow rolled out of the brilliantly glowing object, then another, and a third, and so on, until the specters of seven long-consumed liches danced about the destroyed Crystal Shard, as they had danced around the object during its dark creation. (italics added; Servant of the Shard, P3:C25)
quote:
"Do we battle now?" Kimmuriel Oblodra asked when Jarlaxle neared. "Rai-guy is dead, the Crystal Shard destroyed," Jarlaxle replied. "What would be the purpose?" (italics added; SOTS, P3:C25)
and
quote:
The assassin sat calmly, almost hoping that the pair would make a move. He was in an especially foul mood over the last couple of months, ever since he and Jarlaxle had destroyed the Crystal Shard. (italics added; "That Curious Sword")
But go back and look again:
quote:
Jarlaxle leaned back and shielded his eyes from the glow of the fire, the reddish-orange line that so disappeared into the blackness.
Then there came a sudden sizzling noise, and the darkness was no more. The tunnel reverted to its normal blackness, lightened somewhat by the glow of the dragon. That light intensified a hundred times over, a thousand times over, into a brilliant glow, as if the sun itself had fallen upon them.
Crenshinibon, Jarlaxle realized. The dragon's breath had done its work, and the binding energy of the artifact had been breached. (italics added; SOTS, P3:C24)
After the dragonfire had dissipated, Crenshinibon continued to glow.
Does everybody understand that?
The Shard continued to exist. At the very least, its physical structure was not destroyed in the blast.
Yes, for sure, we are told that the energy that bound the spirits of the liches and the sheikh was breached and released. But we are not told that the physical form of the gem itself was melted or vaporized into nothingness.
Again, consider:
quote:
Jarlaxle looked back to the mountain and shrugged. "It would seem that your formula for defeating the Crystal Shard was correct after all," the drow said to Cadderly. (italics added; SOTS, P3:C24)
At this point, Jar tells us that the Shard had only been "defeated"--he does not say "destroyed".
Consider:
quote:
[...] Hephaestus recognized that it should not be staring at the brilliance of the Crystal Shard's released energy.
But the dragon could not turn away from the brilliance, from the sheerest and brightest, the purest power it had ever seen.
The wyrm marveled as a skeletal shadow rolled out of the brilliantly glowing object, then another, and a third, and so on, until the specters of seven long-consumed liches danced about the destroyed Crystal Shard, as they had danced around the object during its dark creation.
Then, one by one, they dissipated into nothingness.
The dragon stared incredulously, feeling the honest emotions as clearly as if it were empathically bound to the next form that flowed out of the artifact, the shadow of a man, hunched and broken with sadness. The stolen soul of the long-dead sheik sat on the floor, staring at the stone forlornly, an aura so devastated flowing out from the shadow that Hephaestus the Merciless felt a twinge in its cold heart.
That last specter, too, thinned to nothingness, and, finally, the light of the Crystal Shard dimmed. (italics added; SOTS, P3:C25)
There, we are repeatedly told that the Shard's physical structure survived the blast, continuing to release energy for a time, as the souls escaped from out of it and even danced around it, even as we are told that the Shard was destroyed.
Clearly "destroyed", here, does not mean "erased" or "deleted" or "wiped away into nonexistence", as so many of us readers have probably believed for years.
I have stumbled across one interesting bit of lore that is especially relevant, here. In the sourcebook Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, we're told of three different ways that the Shard can be destroyed--but immolation by red dragon fire is not one of them (VGTATM, "Artifacts of the Realms": p101: "Crenshinibon: The Crystal Shard": "Suggested Means of Destruction"). Elminster himself vouches for this lore, as well (VGTATM, p4: "Elminster's Introduction).
Is it really all that inconceivable that the Crystal Shard could have survived, in some form, now?
And now, it's time for some speculation . . .
Since the physical form of the Crystal Shard continued to exist, then might it continue to have some degree of magical power, and/or a sentience?
Obviously, the spirits of the seven liches and the sultan/sheikh have been said to have departed the artifact. So with their souls gone, it would make sense to think that the Shard must have lost at least its sentience for a time. Crenshinibon had begun its "life" when it consumed the spirits/aspects of the seven liches (The Crystal Shard, Pre.; VGTATM, "Artifacts of the Realms": p99: "Crenshinibon: The Crystal Shard": "History"; SOTS, P1). (Whether the liches' spirits were consumed or obliterated was a matter of dispute by Cadderly for a time, but as we have seen, those spirits were observed while leaving the Shard at the end of SOTS, so they had to have been put in there in the first place.) It would seem that the liches' magical link to their corpses, and possibly even to their phylacteries, was redirected to the Shard, instead, thus giving it life of a sort. It is then said that what was aborbed into the Shard was a collection of "pieces of their shattered spirits" (italics added; SOTS, P1). This is a vague, abstract concept, to say the least. Then we are told that a Zakharan sultan assigned his court wizards to heighten its power and "limited consciousness" (SOTS, P1). When the sultan is defeated, Crenshinibon again takes a piece of his spirit (SOTS, P1). Drizzt tells us that the result of all this is a limited form of sentience, in which the Shard eternally yearns to relive its greatest days of power, but is unable to be swayed from that singular mission (SOTS, P1; also see P2:C12). Now, without these spirits, whither can the Shard's sentience or life any longer be pointed out?
Might some remnants of those pieces of spirits still have remained--pieces of pieces, as it were?
And when you consider that it was liches' spirits that were removed--wizards all (TSCh, Pre.)--it would also make sense to conclude that the Shard would have lost a great deal of its magical power, as well. So what was the Crystal Shard good for anymore, at the end of SOTS, with its souls departed, and its magical energy released?
An object's usefulness is as much determined by the needs/wants of the user's as the object's intended use. New uses can be devised for old objects.
Perhaps the Crystal Shard found new usefulness because of Hephaestus's newfound blindness. Consider:
quote:
Only then did Hephaestus recognize the depth of its mistake. Only then did the ancient red dragon realize that it was now totally blind, its eyes utterly destroyed by the pureness of the power released.
The dragon roared--how it roared! The greatest scream of anger, of rage, that ever-angry Hephaestus had ever issued. In that roar, too, was a measure of fear, of regret, of the realization that the wyrm could not dare go forth from its lair to pursue the intruders who had brought this cursed item before it, could not go out from the confines to the open world where it would need its eyes as well as those other keen senses to truly thrive, indeed to survive.
[... T]he wyrm retreated to the large chamber secretly and magically concealed behind its main sleeping hall, the chamber where there was only one possible entrance, and the one where the dragon kept its piled hoard of gold, gems, jewels, and trinkets.
There the outraged but defeated wyrm curled up again, desiring sleep, peaceful slumber among its hoarded riches, hoping that the passing years would cure its burned eyes. It would dream, yes it would, of consuming those intruders, and it would set its great intelligent mind to work at solving the problem of blindness if the slumber did not bring the desired cure. (italics added; SOTS, P3:C25)
Notice that Hephaestus both roars at his blindness and makes a mental note of "the cursed item before it". It sounds like the burnt-out artifact is still there.
And ol' boy Heph' needs some new peepers.
So perhaps Heph' somehow learns the requirements to become a lich--a dracolich--using the Crystal Shard as his phylactery.
How badly do you value your sense of vision?
And it needn't even have been an immediate thing. My calculations point to SOTS occurring in summer, 1367 DR, while internet rumors make it appear that TGK takes place at some point in the 1380s. Heph might've died by some odd means and then turned to the notion of lichdom out of sheer desperation to continue some form of life, or at least undeath--and just so happened to have a handy-dandy, purty rock, rip-rarin' ready to go.
Lady Fellshot referenced the TGK teaser from WOTC over on the RAS Forums, and that gets me to thinking of a different tack. What if it wasn't a collection of pieces of pieces of spirits of the seven liches and sultan that continued to occupy the crystal, but rather, the newly disembodied spirits of Rai'Gy Bondalek and Yharashrik the illithid? Their combined clerical and psionic magic would not be something to laugh at.
At any rate, that could answer the question of what sort of sentience and magic the Shard might possess in TGK.
As to Heph's dracolichdom, there is always Jarlaxle's own dragon skull phylactery, from "The Sellswords", to keep in mind . . .
[/ Spoiler] |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2009 : 21:29:10
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| Another alternative: what if those seven liches hung around after their apparent dissolution? They could also have something to do with Heph going the undead route. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 10:34:59
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| Another Question. Who were the seven Liches? What is there history? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 12:32:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
Another Question. Who were the seven Liches? What is there history?
I don't think we have any info at all on them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 19:43:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
Another Question. Who were the seven Liches? What is there history?
A Reader's Guide to RAS's The Legend of Drizzt gives a one-page entry covering all seven liches, affording each a sentence or two apiece. They all come from different kingdoms on different planes of existence. I believe one was female. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 03:54:59
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| I only asked because their history may be revelant to the non-destruction?of Crenshinibon |
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
92 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 04:52:39
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| As always, thanks for the very in-depth anylysis Beast! This is very interesting indeed. I'm getting very excited for October and the release of this novel. Can't wait! |
"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 15:53:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
I only asked because their history may be revelant to the non-destruction?of Crenshinibon
Volo's Guide to All Things Magical reports that the Shard was forged in a distant crystal sphere millenia ago (VGTATM, p99). I am not sure if this is meant to reflect the cosmology of an earlier edition of the Realms, or what. But it does bring to mind the notion that the liches were not all from the Material Plane, or at least, they did not do their evil work here.
Whereas we were told that these seven liches were undead "kings" earlier (Servant of the Shard, P1), the ARG revised that lore to tell us that the liches had all sorts of different occupations, and one was female and even had possessed the body of a little girl before being pulled into the Shard (ARGTRASTLOD, p116). I prefer this revised lore over the original. 
The seven liches each must have had phylacteries on their respective home planes of existence, and that once led me to believe, for a time, that their separation from the Shard would be of little import to them. They could just find a new "body" to occupy, right? I'm not sure how easy it would be for their disembodied spirits to relocate, across planes and all, but it should be possible, right?
But discussions with other fans have made me rethink that. Crenshinibon is said to have begun its "life" by consuming the lifeforce/spirits/aspects and/or pieces thereof of the liches. We are told that the Shard's forging stole the magical strength that preserved the liches' undead state (The Crystal Shard, Pre.). Cadderly was led to believe that the forging obliterated their conscious aspects while absorbing pieces of their shattered spirits, and simultaneously turned their rotted bodies into ashes (SOTS, P1). (But it sounds as if whole spirits of the liches were seen escaping from it, in the Shard's final scene (SOTS, P3:C24).)
Taken together--1) the magic preserving the liches' undeath and 2) the absorption of their spirits combined with the burning of their bodies--this would make it appear as if the liches' lost their magical connection to their original phylacteries, which broke the spell that gave them undeath, which destroyed their bodies, and which caused their spirits to become disembodied. That's when the Shard took them in. If this reading is correct, then their original phylacteries should have become useless.
Question: Once a lich loses its link to its phylactery, and presuming the phylactery has not been destroyed, can the disembodied spirit re-link to that item again in the future? Or to another item, that is easier to acquire than the original item? I don't know the rules for disembodied spirits, ghosts, and lichs that well. It probably depends on the exact mechanics of the spell required to create lich undeath, I suppose; if it requires opposable thumbs and much hand-eye coordination, then a ghost might just be plumb out of luck.
Then again, since it is said that this female lich transplanted her soul into a succession of different young girls over the course of her undeath/unlife, then it seems to me that the other six disembodied spirits should've been able to find some new digs, as well . . . 
quote:
Originally posted by Sith_Lord_Drizzt
As always, thanks for the very in-depth anylysis Beast!
Ah, you bet. This is fun! |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 20 Jul 2009 15:55:32 |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 07:36:07
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Hmmm.....Verry interesting BEAST. Thank you.
On a side note what do you think the odds are that Jarlaxle becomes the Ghost King? Not undead just fully in command of the Ghosts within the shard? I think there's more than those 7 liches and sultan in there. What happened to all the possessers of the the Shard that died while it was still with them? |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2009 : 00:02:59
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| Another side note: Has anyone been able to access the sample chapter link that Wizbro has on the Ghost King's product page? I've been having no luck with it at all. |
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
92 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2009 : 19:50:00
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| Picked up my copy last Thursday. Haven't had a chance to read it yet but plan on starting tonight! I can't wait! |
"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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haljita
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2009 : 22:23:14
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Hey guys. First time poster here....
I just read this book. Holy crap. It's really a work of art, and one of Salavatore's finest, but man, it's sad. Really, really saddened me :(. |
Edited by - haljita on 13 Oct 2009 22:24:15 |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2009 : 10:14:23
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| well met haljita.thanks for not divulging too much info.lots of people will not be aware of the ending of this book yet. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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The Ghost King -- Description
