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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
201 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  10:12:57  Show Profile  Visit Wrigs13's Homepage Send Wrigs13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I have been looking at lycanthropes and I am trying to decide what the exact purpose of the monstrous hit dice game mechanic attached to were creatures.

How in the description of creating a were-character you are suppose to add the base creatures hd to the characters hd. I won't repeat all the game mechanic here as I assume you are all familiar with the specifics.

I can only assume that this is designed so that low level races or characters that take the lycanthropic template are actually more powerful than the creature they are emulating. This makes sense as it would be embarrasing to be a were-bear with only 2 hd. The knock effect of this ruling though is that if a 7th level character become a were-bear he would have to take both the bears hd and the +2 la. This will massively boost his effective level and he will gain no more abilities for many levels.

Does this not seem a little unbalanced? adding 6 hd to a 1st level character is not the same as adding 6 hd to a 9th level character. Also a 9th level fighter gaining 6 levels of a monstrous creature will be significantly disadvantaged by the time he reaches 15th level, compared to a stright 15th fighter.

There is a system in the unearthed arcane for reducing level adjusts but this has no effect, and I suppose shouldn't have, on creature hd. Also there is no system similar to the savage species monstrous race rules that could turn lycantropic templates or any other template into a progressive raceial class.

I get off point a little.

The point of this is to discuss the reason for the hd.

So, as I see it if the purpose of hd is to create creatures of appropriate level and combat ability does the hd need to be applied to higher level characters? Would it not be reasonable to just apply level adjust to higher level characters? And then does that mean if you use the unearthed arcane rules then potentially not even that need be applied?

The mechanism I am considering is that if a pc's hd is equal or greater than the base creatures hd then it seems unnessecary to apply monstrous hd to that pc. The level adjust shoudl still be applied but with the option to buy it off as in the unearthed arcane.

Would this create a game imbalance? Is there a greater reason for applying the hd?

I have found precedent for this approach in the Faiths and Pantheons in which a 15th level druid were has only got 15hd.

The next thing that occured to me was that different creatures have different hd and stat adjusts. The larger the creature the more the hd and the greater the stat adjusts, so I suppose this adds additional effective level adjust to the character to balance the stat adjusts. If this is the case then some other game mechanic is needed as the +2 LA for being a were-wolf is not the same as +2 LA for being a were-bear. So should I apply different LA for different races or everyone will want to be bitten by a were-dire polar bear, not those tiny were-boars.

A lot of questions in this post I know, but the relative benefit of stat adjusts and a were-forms natural combat abilities are reduced every level the pc's go up so they can't really be considered a game constant can they?

I shall stop writing now, much to your relief I am sure

Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition.

Sian
Senior Scribe

Denmark
596 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  11:41:46  Show Profile  Visit Sian's Homepage  Click to see Sian's MSN Messenger address Send Sian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
a were with 6 racial hd and a LA+2 and a level 1 barb is ECL 9 ... ie. the same as a human level 9 barb

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She's a women, it happens once a month
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  13:08:19  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I once ran a game that reached epic level and my PC was a psion mindflayer. According to the MM, illithids are LA +7 and +8 HD, we started at level at high level (in fact I joined at high level), so my lvl 4 psion had an ECL of 19, it is absurd. I tried it, no way it's equivalent. Also, according to the Expanded Psionic handbook, a basic illithid (0 class level) is considered a lvl 9 psion. Even then, it makes him a caster level 13, it is no match for any class lvl 19. Imagine, level 19, 8d8 + 4d4 + 48 HP, it was awful.

Mind blast? DC 14-16, even fighters makes their saves easily. Brain extract? No way, my tentacles doesn't hit anything now, since I'm a low BAB/low STR class. Super high SR? We use power resistance instead (as in, SR for psionics), so arcane/divine spells are not affected.

So, what I did, I flushed the +ECL for the HD, but I kept the HD. I reduced the natural psion level to 7. My level 12 psion was now ECL 19, caster level 19. Of course it would have been impossible to join in a game below level 8, since even with a single class level, my ECL would have been 8 AND my mind blast and extract ability much more devastating. I received significantly weaker magic items than what the other PCs had to make up for the actual useful abilities (natural telepathy, dominate, levitate etc). I swear, it was perfectly fair and balanced.

In any case, my advice, forget the rules for ECL, make the character of equal power the the other players. If necessary, give new magic items/ability to the others . I can understand that if the PC beside me had a uber-powerful werebear ECL 8 (but in reality 13+), then my legit monk level 8 would look boring and weak indeed. What is more important than actual ECL is the balance between your PCs. Then, you can adjust the CR of the monsters you send, if you consider everything 2 CR below the actual CR, the xp is halved for example, so you could send CR two point higher than normal without giving them half a level of xp.

BUT, I must warn you, don't make powerful template JUST to be powerful. When I played a mindflayer, the character was already part of the story, and the role-play was incredible. It did not excape my notice that the werebear is the most powerful werecreature. It that the only motive? If it is so, then don't do it. He just want to play a werecreature for the fun of it? Than there are many others much less powerful. He want to be good? No problem, Selūne grant selfcontrol to her werecreature follower (see Selūnite Lychanthrope class feature for the Silverstar PrC in F&P). He doesn't even need to take the PrC IMO, just give him the ability for free, or even better, as a first level feat.

Hope that helps

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"

Edited by - Kilvan on 10 Feb 2009 13:11:12
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  13:23:21  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh what the heck, while I'm at it, school can wait . If he is gonna be a fighter type, the most important aspect of balance IMO is BAB. He should never have a BAB higher than his ECL. For example, a were-bear has a BAB +5, so if hes a 1rst level fighter, his ECL should be AT LEAST 6. Then compare with the other PCs, and adjust his LA accordingly.

Consider HP (yes HP, not HD, because if hes a barbarian with d12 or a rogue with d6, you might not evaluate the HD boost by the template the same manner), AC, ability bonus, and other special ability. I also highly recommend to drop the DR 10/silver to 5/silver. 10 is damn good, especially for low level, and you don't want 3/4 of the encounters to be with silver weapons (or casters). Man, even 5 is powerful, really.

Finally, consider what I said earlier, don't make powerful PC just to please his ego. It will ruin your game.

Now, time for school,

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Ashe Ravenheart
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USA
3080 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  13:30:33  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Remember, that as you gain the Hit Dice, you also gain the Feats and Skills that come along with that bump as well. And you do *not* have to choose the same as the base creature. Basically, you're taking class levels of 'Animal'.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  14:43:07  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Remember, that as you gain the Hit Dice, you also gain the Feats and Skills that come along with that bump as well. And you do *not* have to choose the same as the base creature. Basically, you're taking class levels of 'Animal'.



Of course, I realise that, but skill point are not influencial (for determining ECL) at all compared to AC, BAB, DR, SR and ability scores. Feats should have been added to the list, thank you for pointing that out Ashe.

And yes, I'm at school, but my laptop never leaves me .

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31629 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  14:52:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Look at SKR's Curse of the Moon. It's a $5 pdf, and it addresses all the broken rules around lycanthropic PCs. It's something I can't recommend highly enough. Sean presents a lot of alternate rules that are designed with keeping lycanthropes both in balance and giving some nifty options for them.

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3030 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  20:16:18  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Just use a shifter.

BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
201 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  20:18:33  Show Profile  Visit Wrigs13's Homepage Send Wrigs13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So if I remove the hd element of lycanthropes but still use the level adjust, and hence do not include the extra feats, skills, bab, etc, and just assume the level adjust is associated with the actual abilities of being a lycanthrope, ie alternate form, curse, heightened senses, etc, is that reasonable? If so does there need to be an additional adjustment based on the stat adjusts from the base creature?

Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition.
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  20:36:31  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13

So if I remove the hd element of lycanthropes but still use the level adjust, and hence do not include the extra feats, skills, bab, etc, and just assume the level adjust is associated with the actual abilities of being a lycanthrope, ie alternate form, curse, heightened senses, etc, is that reasonable? If so does there need to be an additional adjustment based on the stat adjusts from the base creature?



Curse, I forgot about that. That ability can mess up your campaign ALOT .Basicaly, what's keeping him from turning all the other PC in werecreature?, or building an army (which he would not control) or whatever. I never used (or witnessed) a PC lycanthrope, so I can't say more than I already did. I'd go with afflicted only, not natural (for the major DR difference). Then once all the abilities are set (including stats) then you can compare with the other PC to determine LA. My guess is it's gonna be around 2-3.

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  20:58:03  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

-Just use a shifter.

BRIMSTONE


If you're talking about the PrC presented in Masters of the Wild, that class was so broken that there would be even worse game imbalance. That's why they changed it into the Master of Many Forms and took away the unlimited shapeshifting ability.

Edited by - ranger_of_the_unicorn_run on 10 Feb 2009 21:00:20
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
201 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  21:03:28  Show Profile  Visit Wrigs13's Homepage Send Wrigs13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

-Just use a shifter.

BRIMSTONE


If you're talking about the PrC presented in Masters of the Wild, that class was so broken that there would be even worse game imbalance. That's why they changed it into the Master of Many Forms and took away the unlimited shapeshifting ability.



I had a player who wanted to play a MMF but after a little research it turns out it is an absolute turkey of a PrC. It was broken and the fix made it pointless. A monkey with a Wand of Polymorph is more effective a pc than a Druid turned MMF. Wah....

Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition.
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  21:15:24  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13

quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

-Just use a shifter.

BRIMSTONE


If you're talking about the PrC presented in Masters of the Wild, that class was so broken that there would be even worse game imbalance. That's why they changed it into the Master of Many Forms and took away the unlimited shapeshifting ability.



I had a player who wanted to play a MMF but after a little research it turns out it is an absolute turkey of a PrC. It was broken and the fix made it pointless. A monkey with a Wand of Polymorph is more effective a pc than a Druid turned MMF. Wah....



MMF does not look bad at first glance. Care to elaborate?

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
201 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  21:25:17  Show Profile  Visit Wrigs13's Homepage Send Wrigs13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know it looks pretty good to start with but when you start to build a character you realise it is flawed. The first problem is that you need the wild shape ability which means you have to take druid to 5th level, there is an alternate path but its much longer, which gives you access to a very poor selection of spells. But when you become a MMF you do not get to improve these spells as you would with a normal PrC. So very quickly these 5 levels just become wasted. Then the wild shape ability is broken in that you cant use any of your equipment and until you reach a high level you get no access to the powers of the creature you have shape changed into. And when you do get access to some powers they are only ex abilities. Unfortunatly all the good abilites are sp or su. So if you wild shaped into a troll you would never get the regeneration ability, or after waiting 15 levels you can turn into a large dragon but not get a breath weapon, spell resistance, etc. Finally you have to wait so long to get decent forms or sizes that you end up as a 12th level character turning yourself into an ogre, which being a CR3 monster is not very exciting especially when you are butt naked and suffering a -2 penalty for using missized weaponary. The list goes on but you get the idea.

Sorry if that seems a bit of a tirade

Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31629 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  21:34:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

-Just use a shifter.

BRIMSTONE


If you're talking about the PrC presented in Masters of the Wild, that class was so broken that there would be even worse game imbalance. That's why they changed it into the Master of Many Forms and took away the unlimited shapeshifting ability.



I think Brimmy was referring to the shifter race from Eber-whatsit. They're like really stripped-down versions of werecritters.

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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  21:38:13  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13

I know it looks pretty good to start with but when you start to build a character you realise it is flawed. The first problem is that you need the wild shape ability which means you have to take druid to 5th level, there is an alternate path but its much longer, which gives you access to a very poor selection of spells. But when you become a MMF you do not get to improve these spells as you would with a normal PrC. So very quickly these 5 levels just become wasted. Then the wild shape ability is broken in that you cant use any of your equipment and until you reach a high level you get no access to the powers of the creature you have shape changed into. And when you do get access to some powers they are only ex abilities. Unfortunatly all the good abilites are sp or su. So if you wild shaped into a troll you would never get the regeneration ability, or after waiting 15 levels you can turn into a large dragon but not get a breath weapon, spell resistance, etc. Finally you have to wait so long to get decent forms or sizes that you end up as a 12th level character turning yourself into an ogre, which being a CR3 monster is not very exciting especially when you are butt naked and suffering a -2 penalty for using missized weaponary. The list goes on but you get the idea.

Sorry if that seems a bit of a tirade



But at level 10, you can change into a Gargantuan dragon, with one of the highest damage output available (beside Colossal of course). It must mean something for a lvl 15, even without the breath. The AC and ST are great too, better than anything a level 15 could offer (that I can think of).

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  21:42:50  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
oh and btw, a dragon's immunity, SR and frightful presence are Ex abilities, only the breath is Su. Check out the stats of an ancient gold dragon (gargantuan), and ask yourself if it's strong for a level 15. It is TOO strong IMO.

Edit: nvm, you can't wild shade in a form with a numder of HD that exceed for own, an ancient gold dragon is 32 HD.... oops, my bad

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"

Edited by - Kilvan on 10 Feb 2009 21:55:22
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Rozarius Darkblade
Acolyte

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  22:14:06  Show Profile  Visit Rozarius Darkblade's Homepage Send Rozarius Darkblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i had a player used it once he hated it he said he'd rather just play a straight druid or just use the dragon pc rules from draconoimcon

"Here's to us may we get all of what we need, most of what we want; and only some of what we deserve"
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
201 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  22:27:04  Show Profile  Visit Wrigs13's Homepage Send Wrigs13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I didn't mention the hd limit did. Sorry. Yeah even though you can technically be gargantuan in practice you can't due to the hd limit. OK so you can get SR but a dragon without a breath weapon? Wheres the fun? The other thing is every time I found a clarification on how wild shape works it is worse than the last time. Oh and the exact wording is extraordinary special qualities, so technically you wouldn't get frightful presence as it is a special ability, but thats just perdantic

Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3030 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  22:35:31  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

-Just use a shifter.

BRIMSTONE


If you're talking about the PrC presented in Masters of the Wild, that class was so broken that there would be even worse game imbalance. That's why they changed it into the Master of Many Forms and took away the unlimited shapeshifting ability.



I think Brimmy was referring to the shifter race from Eber-whatsit. They're like really stripped-down versions of werecritters.


-You are correct Wooly.

-Master of Many Forms SUCK. The first commandment is Thall shalt not lose caster levels for any reason whatso ever. Just play CoDzilla (Cleric or Druidzilla, or Core Only Druidzilla)

BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  22:57:42  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never knew what people were refering to when they said CoDzilla. I like it!
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3030 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  23:02:01  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-For you veiwing pleasure:

The 10 Commandments of Optimization


I. Thou shalt not give up caster levels.

II. Wieldest thou thy two-handed weapon with alacrity; but two weapons shalt thou not wield, excepting that thou hast a source of bonus damage such as Sneak Attack.

III. Doubt not the power of the Druid, for he is mighty.

IV. Avoid ye the temptation of Gauntlets of True Strike, for they shall lead thee astray down the Path of Non-Rule Cheese.

V. Thou shalt not give up caster levels. Verily, this Commandment is like unto the first; but of such magnitude that it bore mentioning twice.

VI. Makest thou no build with an odd number of fighter levels, for such things are not pleasing to the Spirits of Optimization.

VII. The Rules of 3.5 are paramount; invoke not the rules of 3.0 if a newer version be available.

VIII. When beseeching the Bretheren of Optimization, come thou not empty handed, lest they smite thee; rather, bringest thou thine own build, that they may offer suggestions and guidance.

IX. Invoke not "common sense," for it is not common.

X. Thou shalt call no build "The Ultimate X" unless his name be Pun-Pun, or thou shalt see thine "Ultimate" build topped by the Bretheren within five minutes of posting.

Yea, verily.


BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 10 Feb 2009 23:04:58
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  23:05:44  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message  Reply with Quote


So true and so amazingly put!
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  23:09:02  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Brimstone, thank you, thank you very much. This is going straight to my wall.

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  23:14:27  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The quick fix I came up with (for races other than dragons, since they are well detailed in the Draconomicon) is to give you one hit die of your creature type (i.e. d12 for undead, d10 for magical beasts, d8 for humaniods, etc) per LA point and ignoring the addition of racial HD/levels/etc. For instance, Thri-Kreen (XPH, pgs 14-15) start with a +2 LA and two levels of monsterous humanoid. Using my method, you get all of the Thri-Keen racial abilities (+2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, –2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, –4 Charisma; Spd 40 ft; Darkvision 60 ft; et cetera) and 2d8 HD (+2 LA x d8), but not the BAB, SVs, or skills of having taken 2 levels of monsterous humanoid. This gives your character a starting ECL of 3 for a lvl 1 Thri-Kreen [whatever class] instead of an ECL of 5. I find it to be pretty balanced, but you would have to still run it past your DM. It may not work as well for creatures with a high LA, like mind flayers; but I would be interested if anyone tried it to see how it turned out.

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* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3080 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2009 :  23:53:11  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, one of my players is using the Master of Many Forms in our current game so I've had to do a LOT of research on it. It is a headache of a class since the player spends most of his time going through all five monster manuals trying to figure out what he wants to change into. But he did get around the items not changing with him by saving up and buying wilding clasps for his items.


I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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