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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2009 :  18:48:26  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


So if they wind up having to help, they've got to deal with the fact that the creepy people are the good guys.


I think I'd have to disagree with you calling them the good guys. They are certainly the current victims, and the formians are committing the more evil act of genocide, but the aranea were warlike tyrants based on the description you gave. This is really one of those scenarios where neither side is particularly morally upright, but the morally upright thing to do would be to protect the slightly more morally upright side.

Edited by - ranger_of_the_unicorn_run on 11 Feb 2009 18:48:57
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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30290 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2009 :  19:40:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


So if they wind up having to help, they've got to deal with the fact that the creepy people are the good guys.


I think I'd have to disagree with you calling them the good guys. They are certainly the current victims, and the formians are committing the more evil act of genocide, but the aranea were warlike tyrants based on the description you gave. This is really one of those scenarios where neither side is particularly morally upright, but the morally upright thing to do would be to protect the slightly more morally upright side.



The aranea aren't warlike tyrants, though. Admittedly, I didn't really cover this, and I perhaps should have... The aranea just dominated the woodlands, and drove the other races -- who they regarded as pests -- out. That was all they did,cause them to relocate. They didn't kill them, and once those races were out of aranea territory, they were ignored. The aranea then proceeded to simply have a good time doing aranea-ish stuff.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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31690 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2009 :  23:00:08  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage


Maybe I should just re-read the book and post my thoughts on each plane as well. That'd probably be the best move, I think.




Go for it!

I will. I just have to remember where I put my copy.

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Edited by - The Sage on 11 Feb 2009 23:02:16
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The Sage
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Posted - 11 Feb 2009 :  23:02:30  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


So if they wind up having to help, they've got to deal with the fact that the creepy people are the good guys.


I think I'd have to disagree with you calling them the good guys. They are certainly the current victims, and the formians are committing the more evil act of genocide, but the aranea were warlike tyrants based on the description you gave. This is really one of those scenarios where neither side is particularly morally upright, but the morally upright thing to do would be to protect the slightly more morally upright side.



The aranea aren't warlike tyrants, though. Admittedly, I didn't really cover this, and I perhaps should have... The aranea just dominated the woodlands, and drove the other races -- who they regarded as pests -- out. That was all they did,cause them to relocate. They didn't kill them, and once those races were out of aranea territory, they were ignored. The aranea then proceeded to simply have a good time doing aranea-ish stuff.

I always thought they became somewhat pacifistic and neutral-like, as they did in the Realms, after being cast off by the Calishites in -530 DR.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 13 Feb 2009 :  18:07:13  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Faraenyl

Faraenyl is another version of Faerie. In fact, in the description, it specifically says that Faraenyl should appear to be "a generic faerie setting". They add an interesting twist to it, and that's the only thing that really saved this entry for me.

It's not that the entry is bad or anything... It's just that it's another variation on Faerie, and I've seen that before. Not only that, but it's not as cool as the version of Faerie presented in the Bastion Press book Faeries, which I highly recommend. There are some nifty elements, and most people would prolly like this one. It just wasn't for me.

The land itself is pretty idealized, as one would expect -- quite pretty, with constantly changing moods. One interesting bit, though, is about how visitors leave. When a visitor exits thru a portal, it takes them back to the world they started from -- even if people from different worlds use the same portal at the same time, they all get sent to the individual worlds they started from.

Time is different here, and the natives worship no gods. Illusion and enchantment spells are souped up, and only the simplest bits of technology work. Again, all what one would expect.

The land is divided into four quadrants, one per season. The quadrants don't blend into each other; you can, in a single step, move from warm Summer weather to cooler Fall weather. Each land is basically permanently in the one season. Each land has its own ruler, and there are rules of the land that even the ruler must follow.

Spring's most interesting aspect is that goblins live there -- goblins who are smarter and less evil than regular goblins, and not only maintain good relations with the local elves, they imitate their society!

Summer didn't really offer anything too interesting. Neither did Winter.

Fall has a couple of interesting bits. One is that there are barrows in some fields. On nights of the full moon, the Barrow Wraiths rise to fight each other and anyone who gets in the way. Even the Lord of the realm stays safely inside on those nights.

The other interesting Fall bit was the Castle of Fall's Lord. By daylight, it looks half-ruined. By night, it's beautiful, intact, and a partying place. You can party there, but if you stay until sunrise, you're stuck there until nightfall.

In the center of the plane is Emora, the capital city. It, too, is a really pretty place. It's also the site of a lot of warfare, though this isn't evident. Each of the rulers of the seasons wants to conquer Emora, and then rule the entire land.

Faraenyl is mostly inhabited by elves (including dark elves) and fae. Gnomes live in Summer, and Dwarves live in Winter. There are also some giants and undead. Humans and half-elves are not native; they're only visitors. Half-elves can be born here, but they're invited to leave and sometimes kicked out if they don't leave.

One of the main ways into Faraenyl is to be invited. The invitation comes from a native, and can take a lot of different forms -- it's not usually obvious that it is an invite. Invites are usually given to those who are either intelligent, charming, dextrous, or some combination of the three. Invites are given to a person, but tend to affect an area, which means extra people can wind up there, too. The fae like that.

The real twist of Faraenyl is the Grand Cycle of the Seasons. Hidden deep beneath the capital (at least a day's travel below the throne room!) is a seriously big machine. This machine maintains Faraenyl and holds back the chaos from outside the plane. If the machine failed, the plane would eventually go kaput. The machine needs strong emotions and the blood of rulers to operate. When a ruler of Emora eventually finds their way down to it, they realize they must sacrifice themselves for the good of the plane. Thus the machine gets more blood, Emora needs a new ruler, and Elton John sings about a lion cub in a Disney movie.

The machine is tied to the origins of the plane. The fae that built it fled from a world of humans and technology, and made themselves a plane to live in. But their magic wasn't strong enough to hold it together, so they built this "paradox machine" to maintain it.

So that's the plane. It's an analog of Faerie, with some twists. I can't see using it in a cosmology where there is an actual Faerie, but some people might. The description of the machine mentions the plane having been built from -- and surrounded by -- primordial chaos, so it sounds to me like a demiplane somewhere in Limbo (I think that's the right one; as I said, my Planescape lore is weak).

I don't see the plane as needing any changes to be usable. It's not a plane that grabs me, but others -- particularly those without the book Faeries -- may love it.

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freyar
Learned Scribe

Canada
220 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2009 :  19:15:18  Show Profile  Visit freyar's Homepage Send freyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'm slowly catching up with Wooly.

Introduction: My first thought is that the "Countless Worlds" cosmology is a lot more like the 4e cosmology than the Great Wheel or even the Great Tree of 3e FR. I think it would also fit pretty well into the Maelstrom part of Golarion's Great Beyond cosmology. I do think a lot of the detailed stuff fits in the more traditional cosmologies like the Great Wheel, though. In my personal interpretation of the Inner Planes (keep in mind that I don't know a lot of Planescape or SpellJammer), the crystal spheres of SJ are something like layers of the Material plane, so I would use the Underland and Ethereal Sea as connections between the crystal spheres. The Silken Ship seems a lot like a SpellJamming ship to me. The Nexus could be a demiplane somewhere among the Outer planes. The Celestial River seems similar to the Styx in some ways.

Avidarel: Seems like a crystal sphere to me. Wooly's given a lot of good comments, so I won't say much. I was pleasantly surprised to see monsters from other 3rd party sources in the "Inhabitants" table. One quibble I'd have is that I think the memories of starlight are really outsiders, since they're intrinsically tied to a plane/layer and a metaphysical concept (light). But I think they're trying to stay away from that philosophy, and aberration is an ok choice. Despite the mid-level adventure options, I think this would be a great place for a high-level adventure. If you have the WotC Elder Evils book, this could be a layer destroyed by Atropus (which came up in the Running the Realms forum).

Carrigmoor: Like Wooly, I also think this is more of a Material Plane location. But I like the decaying city as much as the prosperous one. There's a lot of adventure possibility here.

Curnorost: I think Wooly's said it all here. I found it hard to fit this in my perception of the planes.

Deluer: I love this plane! Well, I'd probably make it a section of the Elemental Plane of earth, carved out by the goddess Eddelis (and I'd say it's her power, through the mephit priests) that forces people to the arrival points. I'm also thinking that this would be a great place to go as a follow-up to the Diplomacy adventure in one of the late paper Dungeon mags (where one of the dueling diplomats is a rather silly xorn). I'd just need to come up with the adventure.

More to come...

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2009 :  16:19:15  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

The Underland -- sort of a interplanar Underdark -- could easily be under some or all of the planes of the Wheel, as well as the Prime.

The Silken Ship -- and possibly several similar ships -- could easily sail around the planes of the Wheel. Like the Voidjammers described in Dragon 159, it's something that could present an alternate method of traveling amongst the planes. It could make planar travel easier for low-level PCs; a planar ship could even visit the PC's homeworld and be how they get into the planes. Ships like this could also give PCs (or DMs) a way to avoid Sigil, though I'm not sure why someone would want to.


The Underlands were one of the most intriguing things in the book for me, probably because it reminds me of Ningauble's caverns on a really large scale. Heck, Ningauble's caves could just be an opening to a particularly well connected branch of the Underlands.

One of the things that was interesting to me about the Silken Ship is that you could use that as a rationale to move between "separated" cosmologies. In other words, if the Great Wheel is one cosmology, instead of shoe horning everything in, say, the Great Beyond from Paizo's cosmology into the Great Wheel, you could have the Silken Ship being one of the few "cross-cosmology" links that allow for travel between cosmologies. Then again, I'd probably have the Underlands serve the same purpose.

The definition of "dimension" was also kind of interesting to me, and I'd probably amend its use a bit. I'd view a "dimension" as something not connected "naturally" to a given cosmology. So the Great Beyond would be an alternate dimension to the Great Wheel, while the Nine Hells would be a Plane within the cosmology of both (though a different version of each).

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

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KnightErrantJR
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Posted - 15 Feb 2009 :  16:24:05  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Faraenyl

Faraenyl is another version of Faerie. In fact, in the description, it specifically says that Faraenyl should appear to be "a generic faerie setting". They add an interesting twist to it, and that's the only thing that really saved this entry for me.



Going with the "alternate dimension" theory, it could be interesting to have PCs run into this version of Faerie after they became familiar with the more traditional version of it, especially if something happened that caused them to think that they were actually in the version of Faerie they were accustomed to.

Sort of like a fantasy version of Sliders.

Also, the whole "fey building a machine to preserve their world" thing, upon looking back at it, reminds me a bit of Hellboy II.



"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 15 Feb 2009 :  17:47:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Burning Shadows of Kin-Li'in

So Kin-Li'in is a kind of hell, and it's definitely not the place to build a summer home. It's mostly usable as written, and it's definitely a plane. That said, there are two things I'd definitely change, discussed below, and a third I might change, discussed a bit further on.

One is the Shadow Plague. The entire plane has been infected with this plague -- what is it with these writers and that idea? How does something that isn't alive become infected? I'd tweak the idea somehow to make it something other than a planar infection. Maybe it's some planar effect willed into existence by Beligos, the former ruler of the plane... Maybe it's the result of a power struggle between some power of fire and some power of ice...

Anyway, the Shadow Plague is kinda nifty. Every day that a living being is in Kin-Li'in, their shadow might become detached from them and attack them. If they are slain by their shadow, the shadow becomes a chaotic evil duplicate of them, with all of their memories, powers, and possessions. If the shadow is instead destroyed, the living being no longer has a shadow while within Kin-Li'in. They suffer a morale penalty for this, instead.

The other thing I'd change is the terrorites, the dominant demons of the plane. There's actually nothing wrong with the race; they're pretty freaking nasty. I just can't stand the name "terrorite". It sounds like something a cheesy cartoon villain would come up with. Considering the names of all the other fiendish races, the name "terrorite" is pretty weak.

Kin-Li'in is an entirely subterranean plane. It's nothing but caverns and tunnels, and these change on a pretty regular basis. The local fiends aren't bothered by this, since they simply teleport around. Anyone without that ability is stewed when it comes time to travel within this plane, though. It can be done, you've just got to deal with hostile terrain and hostile inhabitants of that terrain.

Speaking of hostile terrain... If being in an ever-changing underground isn't bad enough, there are the geysers. These geysers are all throughout the plane, and can appear anywhere -- including walls and the ceiling. They erupt unexpectedly, and the littlest ones do 5d6 points of damage -- the really nasty ones do 20d6! And these things are so prevalent that for every few minutes of movement, you've got to try to dodge them.

Another locale on this plane is the Fallen Palace. This is the largest cavern, and it's where Beligos, the plane's former ruler, had his palace. He was slain by adventurers a decade ago, so the palace is now in rubble. No one has replaced him as ruler, so the power remains up for grabs. Beligos was worshipped as a god by some orcs, and there's a group of them in the plane that wants to bring him back.

And he's not entirely gone, either. A bit of his essence remains in a small rock called Beligos' Keystone (it should be Beligos's; why can't people get it right when there's an 's' on the end of a word?). This little rock has a couple of magical abilities, and some potential for bringing Beligos back.

The local demons don't pay attention to gods, they worship the plane itself. They fall into two factions: one group worships the fiery side of the plane, and the other group worships the icy side. The two groups are pretty serious about this; a weak demon will attack a stronger one, if it's of the opposing faith. Both groups have a single "holy" spot in the plane they venerate, and both groups can get up to 3rd level clerical spells from this veneration.

I've never really like the whole veneration of a concept thing; my dislike for that goes back to reading the 2E Complete Priest's Handbook. I'm not sure I'd leave these fonts and their veneration as the source of power; it might be more interesting to say that there's a major power of fire and a major power of ice (maybe demon lords, maybe deities) working behind the scenes, trying to take over the plane. Beligos isn't statted out or even discussed all that much; it could be that he was some unique mixture of both (maybe a spawn of an ice demon and a fire demon, or something similar), and that's why the plane has both features. Another idea is that the whole plane is some sort of cosmic wager between powers of fire and powers of ice; they could have created Beligos and the plane as a place where fire and ice were balanced, to see which could come out on top.

The most powerful entity in the plane is a terrorite named Xar-el; one of the things that gives him power is that he has an artifact called the angel's eye. The angel's eye is basically the opposite of Beligos' keystone, though, oddly, it also allows its wielder to make a suggestion to a demon. The angel's eye is the distilled essence of an angel, and it was created by a slaadi. Xar-el is nasty, and wants to spread the Shadow Plague to other planes.

The most interesting inhabitant of the plane, in my opinion, is the Awakened One. It's an almost-totally featureless humanoid sleeping in a hidden cave; being approached makes it wake up. It has no alignment, no abilities, no memories, total immunity to magic, and will reappear, intact, if destroyed. The only real feature on the Awakened One is a small depression on its chest, just the right size for either the angel's eye or Beligos' keystone. If either one is placed in the depression, the Awakened One begins an hour-long transformation. At the end of that hour, the artifact is gone, and the Awakened One is now either Beligos himself, fully restored (assuming Beligos' keystone was used) or it becomes a solar (assuming the angel's eye was used) who wants to make Kin-Li'in into a happy place.

This plane quite well functions as some sort of hell. But while it does have some interesting features, it simply doesn't grab me, at least not at the moment. I might come back to that cosmic wager idea, though, because I think that using that idea gives the whole place a lot of potential.

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freyar
Learned Scribe

Canada
220 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2009 :  13:53:02  Show Profile  Visit freyar's Homepage Send freyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Continuing my commentary:

Dendri: Yup, another SJ location rather than a classic plane, but I like it pretty well. It's worth noting above that aranea, creepy as they may be, have the same alignment as humans (N) in 3.X, and the grimlocks, elves, and shrubgoblins they pushed out are all various shades of evil, so it may be that the pushing was done somewhat in self-defense. In any case, I think Dendri is a pretty good example of how to run a formian invasion campaign, and the option to play aranea in the resistance is a nice touch.

Faraenyl: Not my favorite, but I'm just not so much into the "mysterious fey" schtick. The idea of a steampunk Faerie is pretty good, though, I have to admit.

Almost done with kin-li'in...

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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2009 :  04:12:56  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


And he's not entirely gone, either. A bit of his essence remains in a small rock called Beligos' Keystone (it should be Beligos's; why can't people get it right when there's an 's' on the end of a word?). This little rock has a couple of magical abilities, and some potential for bringing Beligos back.


Actually, it isn't necessarily wrong. My 12th grade English teacher told me that you use s' without another s on the end when speaking about a great historical figure. For example, Moses would become Moses'. It would have to be a truly great figure well known and long gone to get that kind of treatment however. Though I could see some kind of demon lord demanding that kind of recognition (assuming that little grammatical details matter to them. ).
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freyar
Learned Scribe

Canada
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Posted - 17 Feb 2009 :  15:22:23  Show Profile  Visit freyar's Homepage Send freyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kin Li'in: If the traditional Abyss has an infinite number of layers, this would fit right in. I would absolutely use this, maybe even as written. To add to Wooly's review, I noticed that the Shadow Plague is actually a curse or something created by the terrorite demons as an extension of their own ability to animate shadows. I am also not a fan of worshiping concepts, so I probably wouldn't give the "priests" actual cleric spells, but it might be amusing to see demons fighting over fire vs cold. I do wish that Xar-el were more than just a standard terrorite with the planar warden template -- if he's special enough to be the warden, he should at least have elite stats or advanced HD or something... But overall, a good layer for the Abyss, which might be one of the "overlooked" layers for most people.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

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14187 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2009 :  19:28:27  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can't believe I hadn't noticed this thread sooner.

Definately one of my favorite 3rd-party sources - I use The Underland A LOT, including in some Homebrew-lore I helped develop for the Elven Netbook project - not actually calling it "the Underland" of course - just alluded to a possible 'deep connection' between the various worlds (to help explain how the FR Drow know of - and possibly have contact with - Erelhei-Cinlu, and also how the Drow spread outward from Toril - their 'world of creation').

Definately a great source, and it 'feels' like a 2e Planescape book. I don't do 'planer' at all, but I still treasure this addition to my lore.

quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

The definition of "dimension" was also kind of interesting to me, and I'd probably amend its use a bit. I'd view a "dimension" as something not connected "naturally" to a given cosmology. So the Great Beyond would be an alternate dimension to the Great Wheel, while the Nine Hells would be a Plane within the cosmology of both (though a different version of each).

I agree with this as well, and think of it in much the same way.

In fact, I've even easily reconciled 4e's cosmology with 3e and even pre-3e, just by saying the 'GateTowns' were really just that - literally gates to dimensions that weren't actually anchored to the Great Wheel in any material way. In 3e, scholars mistakenly thought the planes were 'physically' connected, but by 4e they realized their mistake - its really that simple.

As far as I'm concerned, no plane actually physically connects with another - there is always a gate involved, and two planes that appear to be joined could just have an enormous thousand-mile wide gate between them, when in reality they could exist on opposite ends of the multiverse. And by the same token, two planes that practically 'over-lap' (whatever the hell that actually means scientifically) could have NO portals connecting them - the fabric of reality seperating them could be paper-thin, and yet they would be as far apart a two planes existing in completely seperate realities.

Its all about perception - so Arvandor could easily be considered 'part-of' Olympus (the plane), and also 'part-of' the Great Tree of FR, because the reality is that it exists on it's own, and just has large connections to those 'other realms' (in the case of Olympus, the gate would be continent-spanning). This would explain how it could exist in the over-cosmology of the wheel, and yet still be part of each individual cosmology.

The one 'caveat' being that 'primes' exiting the plane by the same route will always return to their plane of origin - only by purposefully traveling to an alternate prime worlds 'gate' could they use the plane as a route to other worlds - and most divine Realms (like Arvandor) would have such access blocked (Gates only being accessable to folks from those worlds, or with permission). A massive gate like the one that links Arvandor to Olympus would usually be kept in 'free passage' mode (hence the confusion about them being the same plane).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2009 16:44:06
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 19 Feb 2009 :  22:16:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, I've fallen a bit behind, here... LotRO has become quite the timesink for me.

The Lizard Kingdoms

This is another one that's more of a location in the Prime than a plane... The Lizard Kingdoms exist on an island -- it's a big, continent-sized island, but it's still just one island. It could be stretched into a demiplane or plane quite easily, though, simply by making the sea either endless or looping (so that if you sail due north away from the island for more than a few days, for example, you suddenly find yourself approaching the island from the south). It could also be dropped on an existing campaign world, in place of an undescribed continent -- though you might need an explanation for how dinosaurs survived. And lastly, it could work as a world or moon in the Spelljammer setting. Whichever works better for you.

The Lizard Kingdoms is a variation on the typical "Lost World" concept. It's the same in that dinosaurs are still around, but it's a variation in that the idea of dinosaurs still being around is carried out to its logical conclusion. The typical Lost World has dinosaurs coexisting with culturally primitive but physically modern humans, and ruins of ancient societies are scattered around. But here's the rub -- if dinosaurs didn't die out, then they still filled all their ecological niches. And if they still filled those niches, then there wasn't room for competing animals -- particularly mammals -- to evolve.

And that's the idea behind the Lizard Kingdoms. The dominant races are the "scalefolk" (kobolds, lizard men, lisaurs, and troglodytes) and the "hivefolk" (mantisfolk, beefolk, wasp warriors, and formians). These races basically do what the civilized folk in other worlds do.

Humans, dwarves, and goblins are present in the Lizard Kingdoms, but not as we know them. Humans are furry, nocturnal, and nimble in trees -- and they're the size of halflings, elsewhere. Their culture is like that of goblins, elsewhere. Dwarves are still miners and diggers, but they're 18 to 24 inches tall, and are held in about the same regard as orcs are elsewhere. Goblins are the most successful of the three races, mostly due to their breeding rates, but are still a footnote in the larger populace.

I'm not going into the history and locales of the Lizard Kingdoms, but they seem reasonably well thought out.

In addition to dinosaurs never having died out, there aren't many successful mammals. So a lot of the ecological niches are filled by dinosaurs or insects, instead of what we're used to -- dryads appear as snakes instead of leafy girls, for example, and instead of dogs, the Lizard Kingdoms have pony-sized lizards. Lisaurs, which I mentioned earlier, are this world's version of centaurs -- replace the human half with a dire kobold (a human-sized kobold, described in this section), and the horse half with a lizard, and you've got the lisaur.

Some people will be particularly happy to know that velociraptors are statted out in this entry, too.

This place is pretty much usable exactly as it's written. And I really like this one, too.

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Wooly Rupert
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The Maze

This one is definitely a plane.

So this plane consists of a small city, with portals instead of regular wooden gates. The portals lead to pathways that cross planes and go to a whole bunch of different spots.

The town itself is nameless, and seems to exist mainly to support people traveling the pathways of the Maze. Just about everything adventurers need can be found here -- save for any kind of divine assistance. The air is hazy, the sky is an endless black, and the town's 5000 inhabitants live in relative harmony with one another. Crime is virtually unknown. The structues in the town repair themselves. The streets absorb waste and filth. It's posited that the town itself is a living entity.

At odd intervals, though, the Days of Rage and Poison occur. During these times, everybody in the town is pissed at everyone else, and an insult can lead to mortal combat (toasty!). It's not unknown for open warfare between families to occur. And then -- sometimes in an instant -- the Days end, and everything goes back to being hunky-dory.

The pathways... Leading from the portals are pathways. The pathways are all different, going to different destinations, with differing types of terrain, challenges, and treasure at the end. Most of the pathways lead to treasure, but the treasure is always different -- it could be gold, or information, or magic.

The pathways are unbreakable; you're either going towards the end of the path or back towards the beginning -- you can't leave the path en route. Sometimes, other critters can get in, but you can't get out. The pathways have varying widths, but are always wide enough for a fully grown human to be comfortable. Whatever the environment of the terrain surrounding the pathway, the travellers are kept comfortable; they don't have to worry about atmosphere or temperature, even in space or underwater.

There are secrets of the Maze, but those who learn the secrets always disappear.

The truth of the Maze and the town is that both are constructs. They exist only in the mind and dreams of the angel Sophiel, who has been captured by the demon Prince Marruzat. The demons get their jollies by luring and enticing mortals into the pathways, so that the demons can have fun by stalking and killing the mortals. Prince Marruzat mandates that this only happens in the pathways, he personally nails any demon who dares enter the town.

Marruzat and his buddies are also manipulating the sleeping Sophiel. It's their actions that cause Sophiel to create the pathways; he thinks he's projecting himself across the planes. Every now and again he comes partway out of it; this is what causes the Days of Rage and Poison. The town exists within his mind, so this is the reason the inhabitants all place nice and the town maintains itself.

I didn't care for this one. The town and the sample pathways all felt generic to me. Other than the fact that it's all in an angel's mind, there wasn't anything that really grabbed me about this plane. Not only that, but it seems that a town and multiple pathways across the planes are simply too much to have come just from the mind of an angel.

Me, I'd do some tweaking. I'd make the town a physical location, though still in a demiplane. The pathways and the rest would be pretty much the same, though I'd prolly tweak the pathways somewhat -- maybe make them a little less likely to cross all of time and space, and a little easier to leave. And I'd put it all in the mind (or maybe the divine realm) of a sleeping (perhaps nearly dead) deity. The demons could still be around, and in fact, their ultimate goal could be the corruption of the deific mind.

This plane is more a concept than a workable plane, to me. It has potential, but not quite as written. Had the designers taken a different angle on it, I'd've liked it more.

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Wooly Rupert
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Can't believe I hadn't noticed this thread sooner.

Definately one of my favorite 3rd-party sources - I use The Underland A LOT, including in some Homebrew-lore I helped develop for the Elven Netbook project - not actually calling it "the Underalnd" of course - just alluded to a possible 'deep connection' between the various worlds (to help explain how the FR Drow know of - and possibly have contact with - Erelhei-Cinlu, and also how the Drow spread outward from Toril - their 'world of creation').

Definately a great source, and it 'feels' like a 2e Planescape book. I don't do 'planer' at all, but I still treasure this edition to my lore.

quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

The definition of "dimension" was also kind of interesting to me, and I'd probably amend its use a bit. I'd view a "dimension" as something not connected "naturally" to a given cosmology. So the Great Beyond would be an alternate dimension to the Great Wheel, while the Nine Hells would be a Plane within the cosmology of both (though a different version of each).

I agree with this as well, and think of it in much the same way.

In fact, I've even easily reconciled 4e's cosmology with 3e and even pre-3e, just by saying the 'GateTowns' were really just that - literally gates to dimensions that weren't actually anchored to the Great Wheel in any material way. In 3e, scholars mistakenly thought the planes were 'physically' connected, but by 4e they realized their mistake - its really that simple.

As far as I'm concerned, no plane actually physically connects with another - there is always a gate involved, and two planes that appear to be joined could just have an enormous thousand-mile wide gate between them, when in reality they could exist on opposite ends of the multiverse. And by the same token, two planes that practically 'over-lap' (whatever the hell that actually means scientifically) could have NO portals connecting them - the fabric of reality seperating them could be paper-thin, and yet they would be as far apart a two planes existing in completely seperate realities.

Its all about perception - so Arvandor could easily be considered 'part-of' Olympus (the plane), and also 'part-of' the Great Tree of FR, because the reality is that it exists on it's own, and just has large connections to those 'other realms' (in the case of Olympus, the gate would be continent-spanning). This would explain how it could exist in the over-cosmology of the wheel, and yet still be part of each individual cosmology.

The one 'caveat' being that 'primes' exiting the plane by the same route will always return to their plane of origin - only by purposefully traveling to an alternate prime worlds 'gate' could they use the plane as a route to other worlds - and most divine Realms (like Arvandor) would have such access blocked (Gates only being accessable to folks from those worlds, or with permission). A massive gate like the one that links Arvandor to Olympus would usually be kept in 'free passage' mode (hence the confusion about them being the same plane).



I gotta say I like Mark's ideas, and was leaning in a similar direction, myself. I was mainly leaning that way for two reasons -- 1) if you have infinite planes, there could not, by definition, be any borders, and 2)having borders and a rigidly defined structure leaves little room for playing around. Mark's idea, among other things, allows for various other planes to be dropped into the Great Wheel, without causing any problems.

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The Sage
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Can't believe I hadn't noticed this thread sooner.

Definately one of my favorite 3rd-party sources - I use The Underland A LOT, including in some Homebrew-lore I helped develop for the Elven Netbook project - not actually calling it "the Underalnd" of course - just alluded to a possible 'deep connection' between the various worlds (to help explain how the FR Drow know of - and possibly have contact with - Erelhei-Cinlu, and also how the Drow spread outward from Toril - their 'world of creation').

Definately a great source, and it 'feels' like a 2e Planescape book. I don't do 'planer' at all, but I still treasure this edition to my lore.

quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

The definition of "dimension" was also kind of interesting to me, and I'd probably amend its use a bit. I'd view a "dimension" as something not connected "naturally" to a given cosmology. So the Great Beyond would be an alternate dimension to the Great Wheel, while the Nine Hells would be a Plane within the cosmology of both (though a different version of each).

I agree with this as well, and think of it in much the same way.

In fact, I've even easily reconciled 4e's cosmology with 3e and even pre-3e, just by saying the 'GateTowns' were really just that - literally gates to dimensions that weren't actually anchored to the Great Wheel in any material way. In 3e, scholars mistakenly thought the planes were 'physically' connected, but by 4e they realized their mistake - its really that simple.

As far as I'm concerned, no plane actually physically connects with another - there is always a gate involved, and two planes that appear to be joined could just have an enormous thousand-mile wide gate between them, when in reality they could exist on opposite ends of the multiverse. And by the same token, two planes that practically 'over-lap' (whatever the hell that actually means scientifically) could have NO portals connecting them - the fabric of reality seperating them could be paper-thin, and yet they would be as far apart a two planes existing in completely seperate realities.

Its all about perception - so Arvandor could easily be considered 'part-of' Olympus (the plane), and also 'part-of' the Great Tree of FR, because the reality is that it exists on it's own, and just has large connections to those 'other realms' (in the case of Olympus, the gate would be continent-spanning). This would explain how it could exist in the over-cosmology of the wheel, and yet still be part of each individual cosmology.

The one 'caveat' being that 'primes' exiting the plane by the same route will always return to their plane of origin - only by purposefully traveling to an alternate prime worlds 'gate' could they use the plane as a route to other worlds - and most divine Realms (like Arvandor) would have such access blocked (Gates only being accessable to folks from those worlds, or with permission). A massive gate like the one that links Arvandor to Olympus would usually be kept in 'free passage' mode (hence the confusion about them being the same plane).



I gotta say I like Mark's ideas, and was leaning in a similar direction, myself. I was mainly leaning that way for two reasons -- 1) if you have infinite planes, there could not, by definition, be any borders, and 2)having borders and a rigidly defined structure leaves little room for playing around. Mark's idea, among other things, allows for various other planes to be dropped into the Great Wheel, without causing any problems.

Infinity is a difficult concept, especially in PLANESCAPE. We seem to have all kinds of different types of infinity out there, and often we see quite small and insignificant things [at least at a glance] having an effect on something that is infinite.

Planes slide, gods die, and reality is shaped by people's thoughts and beliefs. None of this is particularly logical in our world.

Infinity may be arguable, but it's a good strong argument.

Case 1: The planes are known to stretch on demand.

Powers create their realms as big as they like. Even if it is difficult to prove that individual realms are infinite, there is an awful lot of gods, and the planes seem to be able to accommodate each and every one of them easily.

Case 2: Infinity is immeasurable, and so are the planes.

There is no way to measure distance on the planes, except in a metaphorical way. It just doesn't happen. All trips in the Outlands take a random amount of time, depending on how focused you are. Trips in the Grey Waste don't depend on distance at all, and neither do trips in Elysium. Distance is defined by belief, and belief is not an easily quantifiable resource. People believe in infinite distances. Since belief = power, infinity is possible.

Even if a single individual could never *personally* experience infinity, there is always a new path for him to walk between two sites in a single plane. That suggest that there is *potential* infinity, never mind actual, since that is unprovable.

Case 3: The Outer Planes must be infinite if there are an infinite number of Prime worlds.

If you assume that each prime world is similar in size to our universe, then you have an infinite number of infinite prime worlds. Even if the number of primes are finite, a single infinite prime world would be enough. Even if the wasn't a single infinite prime world, the *idea* of infinity could exist in the Outer planes, which would be actual reality there.

Case 4: Infinity is a "fake" concept, anyway.

The Astral doesn't even have space. Yet it is infinite in the sense that a person could never visit it all.

Even the smallest units can be broken down, mathematically, even if they are finite for us to experience. We know that, logically, the turtle must always travel half the distance between the two point before travelling it all, and that the distance can always be divided more and more. Therefore, the turtle should never arrive...yet we know that it does (Xeno's contradiction).

So the end result is: we can argue infinity, but never really prove it. We can *have* infinity, but never actually experience it. Yet by believing that things are finite, we make them so *in our minds*.

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arry
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IIRC Douglas Adams described the Magrathean's factory floor as 'really, really, really, really, really, really big; which depicts infinity much better than infinity itself which is rather dull'.
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Markustay
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Posted - 23 Feb 2009 :  17:42:10  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

<snip> So the end result is: we can argue infinity, but never really prove it. We can *have* infinity, but never actually experience it. Yet by believing that things are finite, we make them so *in our minds*.
Right, and we are all on the same page.

In my model, if someone were to 'walk around' the MASSIVE gate between Arvandor and Olympus - no easy task, considering it spans the entire continent - they could literaly see more of the plane they are on on the other side! It is because the gate is so large - and probably only ends out at sea - that most normal folks don't even realize it's a gate they could 'go around' - from all appearances, it just looks like a continuation of the plane they are on.

Scholars (in my model) would only list planes as being 'seperate' where clear divisions exist - where the terrain and types of flora and fauna encountered change dramatically. If the change is gradual (these gates could have 'depth' as well - like the conduits), and the stuff on 'the other side' is the same, or at least very similar to, the stuff on the viewing side, it would be damn hard for anyone but a god to figure-out it was a portal at all (if a mage cast a detect magic on the portal - the edges of it would beyond his vision, and therefore beyond the range of the spell).

I actually used the idea from the Realms cosmology and just 'broadened' it a little. In there, a mortal (prime-worlder) could not enter one of the planes and then go to another - he (or she) must first go back to Toril and 'move outward' once a again. At first I hated that concept (and the Great Tree itself), but when I thought about it, it helps explain-away why a lot of Primers go to the Wheel in the first place before traveling to other worlds.

Most planes - and especially 'godly Realms' - are one-way only for Primers; it gets 'built in' to the rules of the Plane. You leave the way you came in. Ergo, you could go to speak to Corellon in Arvandor, and be standing next to someone from Greyhawk with the same idea, but when you both leave - even if by the same 'door' - you both wind-up back on the world of your origin.

Whoever is in charge of the plane (like the Dark Lords of Ravenloft) could modify the rules for the portals at will, meaning they could easily allow a Torillian primer to exit onto Oerth... but only if the gods (or whoever runnig the plane) allow this breach of protocal. Of course other, non-primeworld gates would exist, and allow cross-planer travel (like the Gate-towns), but primes would have to know of these, and most would only be aware of "the path they came by".

Another fun thing to do is play with the rules of each individual Plane. Suppose most return a Primer to their 'world of origin', but some merely shunt someone back to their 'point of entry'? If that is the case, a Primer looking to get back to his own world (after a portal mishap?) finds a way to Arvandor (or wherever) and then goes to exit the plane assuming he will wind-up back on Toril... but gets shifted back to wherever he just came from instead.

Now, picture doing this to someone who has spent some time in Ravenloft - they find a way to an 'Outer Plane' and figure they will simply exit the plane and 'be home'.

But when they do, they find themselves right-back in Ravenloft. Thats a little cruel, even for me, but I'm sure some ebil DMs could have fun with that.

A smart player would first find the 'powers in charge', and ask for a 'Writ of Free Passage' so that they could go home instead (The 'writ' would be a type of single-use Planer Key).

This sort of Cosmological Model becomes the most important when you take into consideration the various Hells - just about every plane leads to them (usually through death), and yet 'primes' - even just their spirits - will always find their way back to the right world.

Further Elaboration...
Also, you can fold the concept of 'thin regions' onto this, where simpler spells can open doorways between two worlds - kind of like 'permanent conjunctions'. In these areas, it is much easier to pass throught he 'Planer Veil' (I have assumed one such region in the Hordelands, to account for certain things). basically you have yourself a weak-spot in the fabric of reality at that point (which could also 'tear', like what happened in EiH).

That added-on piece of lore explains why certain Fiends (and Celestials) are pre-disposed toward certain prime-worlds. The nearest weak-spot to their 'home' in the Outer Planes could lead to a certain world. Rather then cross another Fiend's 'territory', they just 'mess with' whichever world is easiest for them to get to.

Another fun thing to add on top of that is the concept that these 'thin spots' can be artificially created - years and years of 'constant traffic' between two points causes the veil to become thinner and thinner, and eventually 'rip'. That means the 'thin spot' in the Hordelnds (my Homebrew) was either caused by the Imaskari, or exploited by them after being created by an earlier race (the Batrachi?)

Just some of my 'Planer Musings' I thought I'd share - the bizarre thing is, I NEVER run off-world scenarios. I just like to think about this stuff a lot.

A little more 'On Topic':
The Lizard Kingdoms sounds like a good substitute for Osse; especially considering we don't know a whole lot about it. Of course, the Realms already has dinosaurs (AND primitive mammals), and that continent as-is conflicts somewhat with the one NPC we know is from there, but it would still work well in that region. Could even be the original Sarrukh homeland.

As for The Maze - it just seems like a rather cheap way to add a dungeon-style scenario into a set of planer adventures. It almost has that '4e feel', which isn't exactly complimentary (the whole "Just add your own lore" presentation, rather then true details). I do like Wooly's God-angle though, and thats the way I would have went as well. In fact, I would have made it a dead god of Mazes (Minotaurian?), and add-in a least one exit to both the plane of Dreams (which in my cosmology connects to Faerie) and the Nighmare Lands of Ravenloft (one of those 'Dream Spheres' from that boxed-set seem a perfect angle for this set-up).

Despte its fairly lack-luster presentation, it is still usable with a few tweaks, as Wooly has already stated. In fact, the whole 'Days of Rage & Poison' is enough of a plot-device to make this entry still worthwhile. As much as I despise aberrations in my games, this definately has the feel of a Lovecraftian town to me (Cthulhu meets M.C. Escher).

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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2009 16:17:43
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The Sage
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I actually used the idea from the Realms cosmology and just 'broadened' it a little. In there, a mortal (prime-worlder) could not enter one of the planes and then go to another - he (or she) must first go back to Toril and 'move outward' once a again. At first I hated that concept (and the Great Tree itself), but when I thought about it, it helps explain-away why a lot of Primers go to the Wheel in the first place before traveling to other worlds.
You could just use Ed's view on the various interpretations of the FR cosmologies...

"The Great Wheel or any other cosmology doesn’t bother me, just as avatar stats and the endless “but this god came first, or can beat that god” arguments don’t: mortal PCs can’t know the truth about the gods anyway, because every in-game source (supreme priests, avatars of the gods themselves, holy writings) they could possibly learn all this stuff from is biased. Everything. So it really is all up to the DM."

...

I'll admit, it's worked rather well in my own FR, when I've had to accommodate players who wish to explore elements of the Great Tree. And since all my campaign worlds are heavily invested in the Great Wheel, Ed's advice has helped me along somewhat.

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freyar
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Here's my take on the last two Wooly's posted:

The Lizard Kingdoms: Something about this place grabbed me, too. It does seem more like a Material Plane location, but I could also see it as a region of some plane like the Outlands, even. I was a bit disappointed that they suggested slight modifications of MM monsters (just giving giant bees Int and a few changes to serve as "beefolk" for example). As a self-professed monster junkie, I'd rather think about a specifically designed monster rather than a "re-skinned" one. In that case, abeils from MM2 would work perfectly. I could probably list a number of suggestions for other critters that they could have even pulled from OGC sources, too. Another issue I noticed in this chapter was that some of the monster stats were just incorrect. For example, velociraptors have the feat Spring Attack without meeting the prereqs, and the standard Giant Lizardfolk had Str 21, even though the racial ability modifier is only +2 (and it should have been using the standard ability array). So I'm keeping my eyes open from now on when I look at critter stats.

The Maze: Really not sure what to make of this one. The maze itself wasn't so interesting to me, but the town and its mystery seemed like they could lead to some nice roleplaying opportunities.

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Markustay
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Yeah - that was my point as well (although you cut to the chase better). The town I can drop-in anywhere for a fun one-shot.

Then again.. there was an entire 'race' (Quevari, RLMM entry) in Ravenloft of a group like this - people who went 'Nutso' every once in awhile.

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

You could just use Ed's view on the various interpretations of the FR cosmologies...
I do.

The 'Planer Stuff' I think about a lot is just background - I have never run any sort of off-world adventure. I just like to know how stuff works in my own mind, so I can 'keep score' of how events are shifting things on a more cosmological scale.

Ergo, there is no tree and no great wheel - the Tree is just a metaphor for Torillians on how the universe works, and the Wheel is merely the Outlands, with all it's myriad gates to 'elsewhere'. With my 'free-form' cosmology, any other cosmology works, if you just consider all the inter-connections gates - as Ed hath said - "No-one knows the real truth of things".

Even Eberron's weird Cosmology works with this, and that one is pretty hard to reconcile with 2e lore.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2009 17:02:12
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Wooly Rupert
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Mountains of the Five Winds

This one also felt more like a world than a plane... For me, the distinction is all about what's beyond the area described. If there is no way to physically go beyond, and/or if beyond is other planar locales, then it's a plane. If you can physically travel about the areas not described in the the entry, then it's likely a world. It's perhaps an overly simplistic explanation, but that's basically how I make the call of which it feels more like.

That said, this could be modified fairly readily into a plane, and really works better as such. Maybe as a demiplane in Limbo...

Anyway, this world was once a normal place. And then some fool opened a gate into a plane of Chaos, and the entities living in Chaos held the gate open and let Chaos go rolling across the land.

Chaos takes the form of a cloud, appearing to be a golden fog. It extends about 9000 feet up, and it's implied that it's 9000 above sea level, not ground level, since there are mountains poking out. The whole sea level/ground level thing enters into the equation for me because I have a bit of aviation knowledge, and because I've been to places where the ground was at sea level, and I've been places where the ground was 14000 feet above sea level.

Anyway, life in the cloud is what you'd expect: everything is skewy. It's the Time of Troubles times ten thousand (alliteration! ). Trees sing, rocks wander around, the sea changes to other liquids, that whole routine. Time occasionally goes wonky, too, but it always flows forward -- just at different rates. Magic functions pretty normally, but living creatures can go thru all sorts of changes.

There are some changed folks called Tormentors. They become half-fiends; they've basically learned how to control some of the changes and take advantage of them. Tormentors rule a lot of the remaining bits of civilization under the cloud.

Order has become more notably present, too. There are these five sister cities, the Five Winds, conveniently spaced out in an even diamond with one in the center (). The Five Winds are above the clouds. And their wizardly rulers realized that Chaos was bad and cut a deal with some entity of Order, opening a gate to its plane and flooding the immediate area with Order -- which basically keeps things stable.

And that's the basics. There's more description, particularly of the Five Winds (each city is devoted to one class type, like warrior, rogue, etc). But none of it grabbed me enough to expound upon.

My opinion? Much potential, and a seriously dropped ball. There is so much more they could have done here...

One idea is to play with the old lore about the Rod of Seven Parts. It's got a Law/Chaos conflict in its background, so tying it to a world like this one could make for an interesting adventure arc, if not an entire campaign.

However... Reading this entry, I was reminded very much of the novel A Hero Born, by Michael Stackpole. It has a similar premise, with Chaos having unexpectedly swept over the world and caused a lot of problems. The Chaos was pushed back from this one human kingdom by its mages, and is held back with a series of magical barriers. For me (admittedly, it is perhaps because I read the novel first), Stackpole's approach is a lot better than the approach the writers used for this plane. If I wanted to play with the Law/Chaos conflict, I'd use his playground first -- or some mixture of the two. I simply liked his backstory better, and I loved his depiction of how things were in Chaos. It's not exactly D&D-ish, but there is so much more potential fun in his Chaos!

One more entry (likely tomorrow) and I'll be caught back up to where I'm actually at in my reading of this book.

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Marc
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Posted - 25 Feb 2009 :  09:15:54  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beyond Countless Doorways was a great addition to my cosmology, which is the same as of the other poster, Quale, with some disagreements

Mountains of the Five Winds is in northern Anchorome, because there is the planar rift near the north pole, a bit like Chaos in Warhammer

Lizard Kingdoms is in Katashaka, it's isolated almost like the Malatran plateau, overall for the entire continent I used parts of Nyambe, Lustria and X'endrik

The Maze is in the Region of Dreams, Dreamscape, between the Astral and the Ethereal

Faeraenyl is boring, I considered it placing it in the Outlands cause of the symmetry, somewhere close to Oghma's realm and coterminous with Faerie, Faeries of Bastion Press is superior

Kin-Lin, connected it with Khin-Oin, and made Beligos an altraloth

Deluer is in Deep Shadow, where Dust and Vacuum meet


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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 26 Feb 2009 :  18:50:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ouno, the Storm Realm

So this one feels like a plane, because of the way its described. But, also because of the description, it could easily be tweaked into being a Spelljammer locale. The basics are that it's a stormy ball of water with islands floating in the sky, with 2 suns that orbit the world. Granted, that sounds more like a world than a plane, but the overall feel is more of a plane... As I said, though, it could be tweaked for Spelljammer: make Ouno a water world, set it in the center of its sphere (like Oerth is the center of Greyspace), put the suns in orbit around the world, and you're done.

Ouno is a plane of storms, as the heading suggests. There is no land other than the islands floating around in the sky. The water itself is somewhat acidic, though it loses the acidic qualities after 24 hours -- at least, the rain does. The ocean stays like that. There's no references to anything living in the ocean, but I don't see why some acid-resistant versions of regular aquatic critters (including the elemental-based ones) can't be dropped in without a problem. The waters also boost psionic capabilities.

The ocean is also a deity, Mother Ocean. More specifically, it's her mind, as she's transcended past physical form. That idea doesn't work as well for me; I'd change it so that she was a regular deity with her realm at the heart of the plane.

The islands of Ouno are made of a rock called floatstone. Floatstone has neutral bouyancy, so it stays at one altitude without needing to be manipulated in any way. Trees that grow in floatstone gain this property, and their wood becomes floatwood. The floating thing only lasts while in Ouno, though, so if you take floatwood or floatstone to another plane, the floaty ability goes away.

Ouno was first discovered by githzerai, and there's still a good number of them hanging around. The other dominant race is humans. Both races live on the islands, and on ships that sail the skies between the islands. Some of the ships are used for gathering water from the clouds, as this water loses its acidic properties in 6 hours.

In addition to the islands (four of the larger ones are described), there's also a big perpetual hurricane, the Heart of Storms. It's pretty much impossible for anyone to sail into the eye of the Heart of Storms, but cloud and storm giants hang out there.

One thing that readily comes to mind when reading about this plane is Captain Shakespeare and his ship and crew, from the movie version of Stardust. I loved that movie (and the book, too, which I want to read to our kids when we have them), and I think Ouno would benefit very much from some elements of that part (particularly the gathering of lightning, which could have some different properties on a plane of storms than it would have on the Prime).

I quite like this plane as it was written, and think it's ready for us as it is. I also think, though, that a couple of tweaks would make this an awesome place to send your PCs. This is easily one of my favorite planes from this book.

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