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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore

USA
1279 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2003 :  21:00:48  Show Profile  Visit Mournblade's Homepage  Send Mournblade an AOL message  Click to see Mournblade's MSN Messenger address  Send Mournblade a Yahoo! Message Send Mournblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They also put the magister template in MAgic Of Faerun. But I would'nt let one of my PC's be the magister, too much mucking around. I remember reading that somewhere as well about Sammaster, Wasn't he a former magister? Or was he a former chosen? Or neither?


A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to...
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Malanthius
Learned Scribe

144 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2003 :  21:24:28  Show Profile  Visit Malanthius's Homepage  Send Malanthius an AOL message  Send Malanthius a Yahoo! Message Send Malanthius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sammaster was a former chosen. That's it. He was apprenticed to elminster for a while after being selected by mystra herself, accidentally blew up a caravan while trying to save it from mauraders, slept with alustriel, met a banite priest, went insane, founded the cult of the dragon, then tried to kill an avatar of lathander. Hmmm. Is it just me or for a guy that's supposed to have 18 plus intelligence, does this guy seem not so bright?


Mal.

"Oh, Do stop whining, It's not the End of the World. It's just the end of Your's."
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Nakil Delquion
Acolyte

12 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2003 :  23:09:57  Show Profile  Visit Nakil Delquion's Homepage  Send Nakil Delquion an AOL message  Send Nakil Delquion an ICQ Message  Click to see Nakil Delquion's MSN Messenger address  Send Nakil Delquion a Yahoo! Message Send Nakil Delquion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its not that he was not so bright, its that he was not so wise!


All mages have their faults, even the Chosen, even the Magister.

Sweet Water and Light Laughter Until Next We Meet.
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Dragon Cultist
Seeker

28 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2004 :  00:39:45  Show Profile  Visit Dragon Cultist's Homepage Send Dragon Cultist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Never assume that your enemy is destroyed until you see his corpse.
And even then, you can't be entirely certain.

Or, to put it this way: if the First-Speaker was indeed not so intelligent or wise, how come his phylactery (when he was in his lich stage) has never been found and destroyed?

Did you really think a former Chosen of Mystra could so easily be put out of the running- permanently?

"And naught will be left save shattered thrones with no rulers.
But the dead dragons shall rule the world entire..."
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe

466 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2004 :  20:47:19  Show Profile  Visit Dracandos the Spellsage's Homepage Send Dracandos the Spellsage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
since Mystra changed magic so that no spells such as this could ever be cast again, i assume Sammaster would have 2 do this be4 Mystra made this change. does any1 know the year sammaster cast this spell?

i know the whole thing with mystra changing magic after karsus attemped 2 cast the spell that would steal the power of Mystryl. but she sacrificed herself 2 stop karsus and thats how mystra was created as a new diety and then she changed the laws of magic. in what years did these events happen?

Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead

The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo

Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster

Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna

I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage
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Cyric
Senior Scribe

Norway
388 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2004 :  12:51:54  Show Profile  Visit Cyric's Homepage  Click to see Cyric's MSN Messenger address Send Cyric a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To bad he did not mangage to kill Lathander...he was a cool guy and that book about that cult was a bit cool
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Crust
Learned Scribe

USA
273 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2004 :  18:50:23  Show Profile  Visit Crust's Homepage  Send Crust an AOL message Send Crust a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually just re-read that scene a couple days ago.

I agree with Swordsage that the spell resembles a Spell Engine (which I think is in Magic of Faerun). That Sammaster's Final Sin spell really seems like a solid representation.

(Boy, creating epic spells is really hard for me. They always end up seeming either underpowered, overpowered, or something that doesn't seem worth the time to create in the first place. I have to really practice that.)

As for the scroll, that reminded me of some artifact that might be able to allow the user to ursurp control over beings of an extraplanar origin, or even of divine might.

Either way, that confrontation is the stuff I love about the Realms. Those encounters really make the Realms shine. It reminded me of the epic spell duels in the various Elminster books (or other novels by Greenwood). It's more of what I wished would happen in The Return of the Arch Wizards trilogy. I saw too many phaerimms throwing fireballs and lightning bolts. The war was like a "trading of blows" when it should have consisted of elven high mages and Khelben engaging in exactly the kind of exchange seen between Sammaster and Lathandar.

"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"

Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"

"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."

~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2004 :  01:39:19  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can agree with your reasonings on RotAW Crust. At times, the battles did seem a little too underbalanced, or overbalanced as the case may be...

But then there was a reason for that, the return of an ancient threat could not have been a 'lite' affair for the Realms, and Denning obviously decided the need for crucial aspects to create the atmosphere of near-dread that he was hoping for.

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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2004 :  03:56:53  Show Profile  Visit Edain Shadowstar's Homepage Send Edain Shadowstar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wish I could see it so positively. As I have stated int he past, I found the Return of the Archwizards one of the poorer written trilogies of Realms novels. Mainly my problem was, firstly, that Denning set up such a powerful foe that when it came to defeating them he totally wrecked it. It was the ultimate literary deus ex machina, making an impossible enemy and then wining by swallowing Khelben and some other Chosen. All I could do was say wow and toss the book as far away as possible. Secondly, I think Denning was a bit overzealous with the causing destruction, well, everywhere. Destroy Evereska, destroy Cormyr (again), destroy Waterdeep...it just went on and on, and in the end they barely hurt Shade. A bit much if you ask me.

Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep


"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2004 :  06:11:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, now that I come to think of it, Denning's style (in regards to RotAW) seems to be a recurring trend throughout much of his published works, even outside of the various FR novels he has authored.

Either way, I think we should probably halt, or at least transfer the discussion of Denning and the RotAW trilogy to a more appropriate forum, before Alaundo and his Staff pay all of us a rather unforgettable visit...

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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2004 :  21:32:26  Show Profile  Visit Edain Shadowstar's Homepage Send Edain Shadowstar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True I do see a trend their Sage, but it never bugged me much before. On Sammaster, that fact they never made him factually dead left open a very enticing plot thread, especially since he is the rogue Chosen, which leaves many possibilities open. Making good and open plot threads were something they were better at back in Second Edition.

Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep


"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General

Edited by - Edain Shadowstar on 31 Jan 2004 23:17:00
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2004 :  21:50:24  Show Profile  Visit Shadowlord's Homepage  Send Shadowlord an AOL message Send Shadowlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, Malanthius (IIRC) made a description to the spell, but I am still curious as to what the thin sheet of metal with arcane glyphs is. Perhaps if any scribe would care to make a description/powers for this item, I would be thankful.

The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2004 :  03:06:47  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar

True I do see a trend their Sage, but it never bugged me much before. On Sammaster, that fact they never made him factually dead left open a very enticing plot thread, especially since he is the rogue Chosen, which leaves many possibilities open. Making good and open plot threads were something they were better at back in Second Edition.

I agree with you on that. I've very rarely seen any decent open plot threads which really delve into the history of the Realms and provide an interesting opening for players and DMs to exploit for their own games. Sammaster was one very original plot piece.

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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2004 :  00:06:15  Show Profile  Visit Edain Shadowstar's Homepage Send Edain Shadowstar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Honestly, I don't know about the rest of you, but some of my favorite hoem brewed adventures came off the plot threads left open in the hunred or so Realms products published in Second Edition. It is one of those very large differences between Second and Third Edition is that in Second Edition left open plot thread and much fo the information left you with that might be innaccurate felling (you got that fromt eh Volo's Guides a lot). Now, the sourcebooks tend to be so cut and dry, even the fluff gets a crunch at times.

Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep


"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General
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Crust
Learned Scribe

USA
273 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2004 :  16:49:36  Show Profile  Visit Crust's Homepage  Send Crust an AOL message Send Crust a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I couldn't finish Sorcerer.

"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"

Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"

"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."

~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2004 :  13:47:42  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar

Honestly, I don't know about the rest of you, but some of my favorite hoem brewed adventures came off the plot threads left open in the hunred or so Realms products published in Second Edition. It is one of those very large differences between Second and Third Edition is that in Second Edition left open plot thread and much fo the information left you with that might be innaccurate felling (you got that fromt eh Volo's Guides a lot). Now, the sourcebooks tend to be so cut and dry, even the fluff gets a crunch at times.

You are very right...Nearly every piece of 2e Realmslore that I expanded upon had it's source from plot threads that I read about (and expanded upon) from the various Volo's Guide, although I didn't get that much from All Things Magical...

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2004 :  00:10:25  Show Profile  Visit Edain Shadowstar's Homepage Send Edain Shadowstar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the Sage

...although I didn't get that much from All Things Magical...
Really? I thought the Artifacts section was rife with good plot threads. Each history and the various desrciptions of its powers and ways of destruction seemed to have a few good loose threads for a DM to make adventures out of. But, to each his own.

Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep


"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General
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chosenofvelsharoon
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2004 :  15:57:46  Show Profile  Visit chosenofvelsharoon's Homepage  Send chosenofvelsharoon an AOL message Send chosenofvelsharoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
lets rekindle and old topic...
It sounds to me much like a spell engine,
and i think there was mention of chain contigency spells in the cult of the dragon source book. this is how sammaster finished becomming a lich instead of dying, along with teleporting some of his ashes for his new body to eat.
The many spells to contigency, quicken, protect from scrying, teleport, etc. probably needed more energy/ spell levels than sammaster had available. the disk probably was collecting power not to be used against lathander.
and as for being not so bright, he was insane and he was still around when he had to fight the company of 12. sounds like he knew how to survive, even against a god.

~chosen of Velsharoon
"and naught shall be left, saved shattered throwns with none to rule them but the dead."
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Nephilim
Seeker

United Kingdom
33 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2004 :  17:27:15  Show Profile  Visit Nephilim's Homepage Send Nephilim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Page 8, Netheril: Encyclopaedia Arcana. "What is known about the nether scrolls is that they appeared as sheets of gold and platinum. They were covered with magical runes and sigils that shimmered upon their surface'

I suggest that the metal sheet Sammaster bradished at Lathander was one of the nether scrolls (although how he came by it is another question). The scrolls were immune to damage from magic and would reform if damaged by mundane means, perhaps it would require a god's actions to destroy one of the scrolls. If Sammaster cast a contingency spell on the scroll, specifying that the scrolls magic would be released if the scroll was destroyed. Then he waves it threateningly at Lathander...

Of course, we still don't know what the magic on the scroll actually did...

ooops.
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Sebastrd
Seeker

28 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2004 :  00:36:54  Show Profile  Visit Sebastrd's Homepage Send Sebastrd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Malanthius
Then, with a tremendous effort,
he reached up and sideways with his left hand to elsewhere
and drew back a single thin sheet of metal glinting with a
faint, silvery sheen. Strange symbols and glyphs crawled
across its surface.
Sammaster held it up before him, as if to force Lathander
to read it. Fool! Lathanaer thundered, and Dawnspeaker
came down resoundingly through the metallic
scroll and into Sammaster, whose body twisted in the aftershock
of the blow and then, miraculously, started to
straighten. The scroll shattered in all directions into a million
slivers of light, but one small, dagger-shaped piece
stuck in the golden plate armor above Lathanderës heart,
scratching his chest, and four drops of his blood fell to the
ground at his feet.



My theory on the metal scroll is that it's somehow tied to the prophecy. It's very possible that the shattering of the scroll and Lathander's subsequent loss of blood could be part of the prophecy's fulfillment.
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1272 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2004 :  01:10:52  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage  Click to see DDH_101's MSN Messenger address Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Can someone give me some detailed information about Sammaster's demise and the events that led up to the confrontatino between him and the Morninglord's avatar? All I know is that several Harpers and some Lathandite priests ambushed Sammaster's entourage and then the avatar of Lathander was just injured before killing Sammaster.

"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33475 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2004 :  03:07:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

Can someone give me some detailed information about Sammaster's demise and the events that led up to the confrontatino between him and the Morninglord's avatar? All I know is that several Harpers and some Lathandite priests ambushed Sammaster's entourage and then the avatar of Lathander was just injured before killing Sammaster.



The tale is told, in full, in the 2nd edition source The Cult of the Dragon.

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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1272 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2004 :  03:23:27  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage  Click to see DDH_101's MSN Messenger address Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I don't seem to possess that tome, which is why I asked all these sages here.

"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2004 :  04:19:33  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

Well, I don't seem to possess that tome, which is why I asked all these sages here.



:) Scroll down after clicking the link, its one of the freebies.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/downloads

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Beowulf
Learned Scribe

Canada
322 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2004 :  17:59:16  Show Profile  Visit Beowulf's Homepage Send Beowulf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well met!

So then ,where is Harrowsmouth, aka the Gate of Hell, where Sammaster the Lich fell in battle agianst the Harpers and the Twelve?

Somewhere in the SE Anauroch to be sure, but is there anything more specific?

Hygelac's kinsman

"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda
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