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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30412 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2009 :  17:57:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Teneck

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Didn't Ed give us lots of euphemisms, in earlier years of this thread? (Various words for female breasts, etc.)
Aye. But Ed also indicated, during those earlier discussions, that he had more to cover at some point in the future. And given the Lady Hooded One's earlier post about them, I thought this would be a good time to ask about any other euphemisms Ed could share with us.

Besides, as I see it, euphemisms, in and of themselves, are one of the richer areas to explore when thinking about language in the Realms. I think some of the dialogue in Ed's "Knights of Myth Drannor" trilogy can be taken as an example of that.



Indeed...and I would imagine that they are regional as well...as a real world example...if you are anywhere west of the Mississippi the word "you'uns" would just get you strange looks, but in the South Eastern U.S. 80% of the people would know what you mean.

So in the Common tongue used in the Dales the euphemisms used there may be quite different then what is used in Waterdeep.



Indeed. As a military brat, I've seen this first hand. When I moved to Biloxi and saw "po boys" listed on the school lunch menu, I had no idea what they were. And then I went to lunch and saw that it was a sub sandwich. When I lived in California, my use of the word "y'all" was a source of endless amusement to my classmates. I moved down here to Florida, and one of my classmates had just moved down from New Jersey. He had no knowledge of the word "y'all;" he amused us with repeated references to "youse guys."

And this is all within one country, with regular, easy communications and travel between these respective points. In the Realms, where travel is more difficult and long distance communication slow and sporadic, regional euphemisms and words are going to be far more prevalent. Add in different races with their own languages and dialect, and it gets more complicated. I'd imagine that you could fill an entire sourcebook with nothing but euphemisms and regional linguistic quirks.

Edit: In fact, here's an interesting page (not the one I was looking for, but similar). It maps out what people in different parts of the US call their carbonated soft drinks: The Pop vs. Soda page. (I myself call these drinks "carbonation" )

And just for THO, I'll add that my linguistic skills could be described as cunning.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Aug 2009 18:25:54
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Teneck
Learned Scribe

USA
133 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2009 :  18:01:56  Show Profile  Visit Teneck's Homepage Send Teneck a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Teneck

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Didn't Ed give us lots of euphemisms, in earlier years of this thread? (Various words for female breasts, etc.)
Aye. But Ed also indicated, during those earlier discussions, that he had more to cover at some point in the future. And given the Lady Hooded One's earlier post about them, I thought this would be a good time to ask about any other euphemisms Ed could share with us.

Besides, as I see it, euphemisms, in and of themselves, are one of the richer areas to explore when thinking about language in the Realms. I think some of the dialogue in Ed's "Knights of Myth Drannor" trilogy can be taken as an example of that.



Indeed...and I would imagine that they are regional as well...as a real world example...if you are anywhere west of the Mississippi the word "you'uns" would just get you strange looks, but in the South Eastern U.S. 80% of the people would know what you mean.

So in the Common tongue used in the Dales the euphemisms used there may be quite different then what is used in Waterdeep.



Indeed. As a military brat, I've seen this first hand. When I moved to Biloxi and saw "po boys" listed on the school lunch menu, I had no idea what they were. And then I went to lunch and saw that it was a sub sandwich. When I lived in California, my use of the word "y'all" was a source of endless amusement to my classmates. I moved down here to Florida, and one of my classmates had just moved down from New Jersey. He had no knowledge of the word "y'all;" he amused us with repeated references to "youse guys."

And this is all within one country, with regular, easy communications and travel between these respective points. In the Realms, where travel is more difficult and long distance communication slow and sporadic, regional euphemisms and words are going to be far more prevalent. Add in different races with their own languages and dialect, and it gets more complicated. I'd imagine that you could fill an entire sourcebook with nothing but euphemisms and regional linguistic quirks.

And just for THO, I'll add that my linguistic skills could be described as cunning.



Wooly...proudly living up to the "Master of Mischief" moniker on a daily basis.

"Go ahead...Sleep in the church...the vampires can't get ya in the church" Any DM...any time.

"He's like a trained ape...without the training"
Simon after Jane trashed the Med lab
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  00:58:20  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Okay, I think we've all meandered far from the purpose of this scroll. And I blame myself for that.

Anyways, back to questions for Ed.

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Edited by - The Sage on 07 Aug 2009 01:21:56
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30412 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  05:20:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Okay, I think we've all meandered far from the purpose of this scroll. And I blame myself for that.


I blame you, too. In fact, I blame you for most things on these forums. I have to blame someone, and Lurue knows I can't blame myself... So you're a worthy target.

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Anyways, back to questions for Ed.


Despite all the meandering about the topic, I'm also interested in gaining more Realmsian euphemisms.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  05:53:42  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Okay, I think we've all meandered far from the purpose of this scroll. And I blame myself for that.


I blame you, too. In fact, I blame you for most things on these forums. I have to blame someone, and Lurue knows I can't blame myself... So you're a worthy target.
You know, I'm starting to think this might be time for me to pen my own "Revenge" list.

...

Oh, and Ed, I was just compiling last month's lot of replies, when I noticed a curious occurrence with one or two of THO's postings. Specifically, two bits I'd like to follow-up on. And since these queries will likely concern events in the next stage of my upcoming Realms campaign, I think I'll take them to a somewhat more private chamber.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30412 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  07:16:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Okay, I think we've all meandered far from the purpose of this scroll. And I blame myself for that.


I blame you, too. In fact, I blame you for most things on these forums. I have to blame someone, and Lurue knows I can't blame myself... So you're a worthy target.
You know, I'm starting to think this might be time for me to pen my own "Revenge" list.


I'm not worried. Once you put that on your to-do list, I can rest assured that Tempus will become a pacifist before you get around to doing it.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  08:02:59  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Maybe I should start praying to Eshowdow then.

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Auzoros
Learned Scribe

Australia
97 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  12:32:47  Show Profile Send Auzoros a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Edit: In fact, here's an interesting page (not the one I was looking for, but similar). It maps out what people in different parts of the US call their carbonated soft drinks: The Pop vs. Soda page. (I myself call these drinks "carbonation" )

And just for THO, I'll add that my linguistic skills could be described as cunning.



Indeed.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30412 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  14:22:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Part Three of the 2008 Spin A Yarn tale is up.

Once more, all the links for the current tale:

Introducing "Volo Breaks a Hot Tale"
Volo Breaks a Hot Tale (Part One)
Volo Breaks a Hot Tale (Part Two)
Volo Breaks a Hot Tale (Part Three)

And to repeat myself once more, all the links for prior Spin A Yarn tales can be found in my Spin A Yarn links thread.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Aug 2009 14:23:05
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  15:11:38  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
This just keeps getting better!

I can't wait to see what the Gen Coners (?) come up with this year.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  21:53:40  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Neither can I.
More than one part more to go, folks (I think), and I REALLY enjoyed Ed's fat elf Watch officer (cobbled together from seminar attendee suggestions, yes, but it's Ed who brings Olimbur and his Watch nemesis to life in all their back-and-forth verbal fencing).
Ahhh, just like gamers staring at the GenCon exhibit hall for their first time ever, THIS is fun to watch.

love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2009 :  21:59:58  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, everyone.
I forgot to mention: an interesting post-Apocalyse (near-future disaster) American sf anthology entitled GRANT'S PASS will be released at GenCon. Edited by Jennifer Brozek (who worked with Ed on CASTLEMOURN) and Amanda Pillar and released by Morrigan Books, it will be for sale at Author's Alley with Jennifer and Ed signing copies, on Saturday from 4-5 pm. Worth a look.
It's not about the disaster, it's about how people cope with the aftermath. If I remember rightly, the setup revolves around a young teen girl's Internet post about wanting to meet up with someone at Grant's Pass, if something bad happens.
So when something bad does happen, all sorts of folks who read the post remember it, and try to get to Grant's Pass, or think about doing so, or . . .
Look for it. Sounds interesting.
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2009 :  02:42:57  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
I just e-spoke with Ed, and he confirmed that the first three parts of "Volo Breaks A Hot Tale" posted thus far have brought us to right around the halfway mark of what he wrote.
So, Sage, lots more comedic action Realms goodness to come . . .
love,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2009 :  04:46:26  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Ah, Realms comedic scenes. Always good! And something we don't see enough of.

...

Actually, that'd make a fairly interesting question for Ed. Examples of other Realms comedic action from his home campaigns, or stuff that he would've like to have included in his published Realms writings.

Any thoughts on that, Ed?

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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1632 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2009 :  16:38:34  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, everyone.
I forgot to mention: an interesting post-Apocalyse (near-future disaster) American sf anthology entitled GRANT'S PASS will be released at GenCon. Edited by Jennifer Brozek (who worked with Ed on CASTLEMOURN) and Amanda Pillar and released by Morrigan Books, it will be for sale at Author's Alley with Jennifer and Ed signing copies, on Saturday from 4-5 pm. Worth a look.
It's not about the disaster, it's about how people cope with the aftermath. If I remember rightly, the setup revolves around a young teen girl's Internet post about wanting to meet up with someone at Grant's Pass, if something bad happens.
So when something bad does happen, all sorts of folks who read the post remember it, and try to get to Grant's Pass, or think about doing so, or . . .
Look for it. Sounds interesting.
love to all,
THO



I've read it and it IS a fascinating and well-written anthology. Ed's story sticks in my head as it's somewhat local to my current location in Michigan and it's far better post-apocalyptic fiction that 2012 will be. (Jeff Grubb's comment on the trailer of that is "It's disaster porn." :) )

Steven
who'll be seeking another copy of GRANT'S PASS to loan around

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30412 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2009 :  17:30:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Part Four of the 2008 Spin A Yarn tale is up.

Yet again, all the links for the current tale:

Introducing "Volo Breaks a Hot Tale"
"Volo Breaks a Hot Tale" (Part One)
"Volo Breaks a Hot Tale" (Part Two)
"Volo Breaks a Hot Tale" (Part Three)
"Volo Breaks a Hot Tale" (Part Four)

And to repeat the by now annoying refrain, all the links for prior Spin A Yarn tales can be found in my Spin A Yarn links thread.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Aug 2009 17:31:14
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2009 :  17:43:39  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
I really like where this is going.

The funny thing is, I can see setting this tale as the basis for an FR campaign. The only problem is, Volo's kinda off-world at the moment in my Realms.

I'll probably have to bring him back in order to work with this Spin A Yarn tale. But I'll wait until we've all the parts uploaded before deciding how.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2009 :  19:34:16  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Sage, Ed is pleased by your comments re. the campaign possibilities of the Spin A Yarn tale ("At last!" he e-mailed me. "The fringe benefits of every Yarn story, exposed for all to read!"), and also wants to say "You're very welcome" to Auzoros (who wished Ed a Happy Birthday back on page 86 of this thread).
Then Ed handed me a response to this, from The Sage (also from p86): "I've speculated previously, that this could indeed be the case. Since it's entirely likely that such alternate names will be referenced somewhere at some point in time -- either through song, story, or just plain Realmsian gossip for the most part.
I think the example of public knowledge regarding 'Rune of the Seven' is appropriate here -- in that, even the most common Realmsian, who has likely never heard of the Seven/Chosen or appreciated the fact that they are actually real and living beings, know this simple and old rhyme.
In other words, your common Realms folk may know of or about such beings of incredible power -- either by name, reputation, or what your grandmother said she once saw. However, these are details almost entirely based on bards tales or rhymes like the 'Rune of the Seven', and they largely form the basis of most of the "public" knowledge regarding both the Seven and the Chosen. Not intimate details, and certainly nothing specific, just rumour, hearsay, and idle speculation in the local tavern on a cold and wintry night.
So while the individual names of the Chosen might change, they're names that are still connected to those touched by Mystra herself."
Ed comments:


There are even some rumors that certain "Chosen" have actually been three or four or more individuals, over time, taking turns being the same guise.
Though the truth about such rumors is for the most part unobtainable (or one can't trust the source to be telling the truth), for what it's worth, Elminster has said, more than once, that some of those rumors are true.


So saith Ed, sewing mysteries anew . . .
love to all,
THO
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2009 :  22:09:16  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
<snip>
Ed comments:


There are even some rumors that certain "Chosen" have actually been three or four or more individuals, over time, taking turns being the same guise.
Though the truth about such rumors is for the most part unobtainable (or one can't trust the source to be telling the truth), for what it's worth, Elminster has said, more than once, that some of those rumors are true.


So saith Ed, sewing mysteries anew . . .
love to all,
THO




Hrm... one known example of this in reverse is Khelben masquerading as his grandson... another one, but not involving Chosen, is the "succession" from Galaghard I to Galaghard II to Draxius (possible spoiler follows): (actually all the same king, if you read GHotR's Cormyr Succession) (spoiler ends)

Apart from Khelben, I can't think of any obvious possibilities of false (or concealed) identity continuity... unless we're talking about the Seven here... but that would involve retcons of a massive scale, given the published histories... and I know how Ed feels about retcons. But what about (first name eludes me) Tasundrym? Or Halaster's former apprentice, turned Magister, turned Chosen, vanished until events in Blackstaff... or [no first name again] Auglamyr... although she's presumed dead... but no body.

There are all kinds of secondary names popping up as candidates now... Ed, see what you've done? You've caused rampant speculation again, and I try to avoid that kind of "tabloid Realmslore"... can you at least end some other speculation, and tell me anything at all more about the Ascore pyramids? Or about progress on the Cormyr lineage seeing publication?

Thank you, Ed and THO! For everything, even the brain-twisting mysteries, for they give my overactive theorist-brain something to do in the wee hours of the night when I should be sleeping...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2009 :  22:24:06  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

<chop>
Edit: In fact, here's an interesting page (not the one I was looking for, but similar). It maps out what people in different parts of the US call their carbonated soft drinks: The Pop vs. Soda page. (I myself call these drinks "carbonation" )
<snip>


Interesting page... but they're also collecting data for Canada, not just the US... and I "popped" my data in as well. Up here in Canada, I think we're mostly "pop" drinkers. Historical linguistics and language drift is a hobby of mine, inspired by Tolkien and strengthened by half a dozen linguistics courses in a B.A. degree in Cognitive Science that I need at least an M.A. to do anything with... and for a number of reasons, some monetary, grad school hasn't happened in the nine years since I graduated from college. On a (somewhat) related note, still off-topic for this scroll: I have redefined "hypocrite" phonetically and etymologically as follows:

hippocrit (n): someone who needs to be kicked in the head (crit) by a horse (Gk: hippo). This is the kind of language drift that I find myself engaging in on a regular basis.

Back to Questions for Ed... please.

[edit]
In fact, I just thought of one... er, two.
1) Ed, with regardt to the Uthgardt... no, no typo, just me being silly... how close is what was published over the years (particularly as seen in the original Savage Frontier supplement and as written by Bob Salvatore) to what your Uthgardt are like? I'm developing the long-term ancestry of two of my original 1E Realms PC's (brothers) and I have a theory... and I'm curious as to (a) how close that publication/origination correspondence is, and (b) how you would characterize the Uthgardt language in relation to Earth languages? I know you've said in the past that you have tried to keep your fictional cultures and languages as non-derivative as possible (and succeeded quite well at this, imho, knowing what I know about the published Mulhorand, Unther, Kara-Tur, and Zakhara). 2) On a related note, and just thought of... apologies if these points have already been asked and answered, but (a) does your Anauroch have "native" human inhabitants post-desertification, and if so, how closely do they resemble the Bedine (if at all), and (b) do the Phaerimm exist in your Realms? I'll search your previous replies regarding these two points after I make and eat dinner... that's what I'm off to do right now. Thanks!
[/edit]

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 10 Aug 2009 02:32:43
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2009 :  02:27:05  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
I have a question about a previous post here that I can't seem to find. Did I read something about the nobles of Cormyr having mistresses or a mistress, and it being a Cormyrean custom? I think I did, but just want to make sure. Thank you!

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2009 :  02:43:30  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Sage, Ed is pleased by your comments re. the campaign possibilities of the Spin A Yarn tale ("At last!" he e-mailed me. "The fringe benefits of every Yarn story, exposed for all to read!")...
Heh. Both I and my players you'd love to thank you Ed. We had a lot of fun with the side-quest I put together last night that explored the first part of Volo's new "Spin A Yarn" tale. They were all so happy to see Volo back in action once again.
quote:
Then Ed handed me a response to this, from The Sage (also from p86): "I've speculated previously, that this could indeed be the case. Since it's entirely likely that such alternate names will be referenced somewhere at some point in time -- either through song, story, or just plain Realmsian gossip for the most part.
I think the example of public knowledge regarding 'Rune of the Seven' is appropriate here -- in that, even the most common Realmsian, who has likely never heard of the Seven/Chosen or appreciated the fact that they are actually real and living beings, know this simple and old rhyme.
In other words, your common Realms folk may know of or about such beings of incredible power -- either by name, reputation, or what your grandmother said she once saw. However, these are details almost entirely based on bards tales or rhymes like the 'Rune of the Seven', and they largely form the basis of most of the "public" knowledge regarding both the Seven and the Chosen. Not intimate details, and certainly nothing specific, just rumour, hearsay, and idle speculation in the local tavern on a cold and wintry night.
So while the individual names of the Chosen might change, they're names that are still connected to those touched by Mystra herself."
Ed comments:


There are even some rumors that certain "Chosen" have actually been three or four or more individuals, over time, taking turns being the same guise.
Though the truth about such rumors is for the most part unobtainable (or one can't trust the source to be telling the truth), for what it's worth, Elminster has said, more than once, that some of those rumors are true.


So saith Ed, sewing mysteries anew . . .
love to all,
THO
Very interesting. Any Ed-styled hints as to who these "certain Chosen" are?

And you both have my thanks, as always.

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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2009 :  08:56:19  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk:
or [no first name again] Auglamyr... although she's presumed dead... but no body.

Syrumstar Auglamyr. *Spoilers?* First appeared in Elminster in Myth Drannor. Became a Chosen at the end of the book. Died in the Fall of Myth Drannor, on the 6th campaign, at the Battle of Shadusk Glade, aka Detente at Shadusk, Gaulguth's Cost, Symrustar's Mirthless
Laugh. Syrumstar and some casters hit Gaulguth hard, costing him his left eye and arm. As the Army of Darkness begam to retreat, Malimshaer caught Syrumstar in his hand, treating her as a plaything and beleiving her powerless. She claughed at him, and erupted in flame, shooting fire from her eyes and incinerating his claws with Silver Fire. He took to the sky until they couldn't be seen, where there was a great explosion of hundreds of yards. Malimshaer's seared
skull and ribcage fell at Captain Selorn's feet, and other remains
dropped onto the battlefield. No remains of Syrumstar were found, but her Choker was found in the Captain's hand in the end, and she had vowed to leave her Choker only at her death. I always like dher, and considered her a fascinating character. I asked Steven about her 'death' as well, and he said she's NDA.
Sorry for posting so much info. But I always loved Syrumstar, and wanted to know more of her.
But to add a question to Ed: Were there any other non-human/half-elf Chosen you can tell us about? All the Chosen we know of are humans or half-elves (except for a certain Drow). And why is it that we know only of human/half-elf Chosen? Is it because they are the only ones who exist? If so, why? (actually, I think I might have asked a similiar question last year... if so, don't answer, I'll look for it)

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 10 Aug 2009 :  15:11:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor

quote:
Originally posted by Jakk:
or [no first name again] Auglamyr... although she's presumed dead... but no body.

Syrumstar Auglamyr. *Spoilers?* First appeared in Elminster in Myth Drannor. Became a Chosen at the end of the book. Died in the Fall of Myth Drannor, on the 6th campaign, at the Battle of Shadusk Glade, aka Detente at Shadusk, Gaulguth's Cost, Symrustar's Mirthless
Laugh. Syrumstar and some casters hit Gaulguth hard, costing him his left eye and arm. As the Army of Darkness begam to retreat, Malimshaer caught Syrumstar in his hand, treating her as a plaything and beleiving her powerless. She claughed at him, and erupted in flame, shooting fire from her eyes and incinerating his claws with Silver Fire. He took to the sky until they couldn't be seen, where there was a great explosion of hundreds of yards. Malimshaer's seared
skull and ribcage fell at Captain Selorn's feet, and other remains
dropped onto the battlefield. No remains of Syrumstar were found, but her Choker was found in the Captain's hand in the end, and she had vowed to leave her Choker only at her death. I always like dher, and considered her a fascinating character. I asked Steven about her 'death' as well, and he said she's NDA.
Sorry for posting so much info. But I always loved Syrumstar, and wanted to know more of her.
But to add a question to Ed: Were there any other non-human/half-elf Chosen you can tell us about? All the Chosen we know of are humans or half-elves (except for a certain Drow). And why is it that we know only of human/half-elf Chosen? Is it because they are the only ones who exist? If so, why? (actually, I think I might have asked a similiar question last year... if so, don't answer, I'll look for it)



Me, I'm going to speculate that the reason most Chosen are human or half-elf is because those races are more likely to venerate Mystra, a human deity. While it's true that any race can venerate just about any deity, the mere existence of racial pantheons shows that most races stick to their own gods above the gods of other pantheons.

We have had at least two named elven Chosen, though. One is the Srinshee. It's not confirmed in any sourcebook that I can think of, but Ed has said that the Srinshee is a Chosen.

There's also Embrae Aloevan of Ardeep, and her tragic tale. I found this info on her online somewhere; I believe it came from the now defunct Yet Another Forgotten Realms Website.

quote:
"Embrae Aloevan got edited out of [SECRETS OF THE MAGISTERS] (sigh); it was only a passing mention, not a heavy-duty bio, but here you go, from "The Magisterium" (my collective name for "Mystra's Other Servants"); hope you enjoy this; you can probably tell why it got cut:

Carrying the silver fire is burden enough; the secrets of Mystra, and the cares of all the moral choices one must make regarding sharing or concealing them is another. Moreover, certain bodies-notably elven ones-sicken or shrivel or are twisted into strange powers (newly manifesting 'wild talents,' or even uncontrollable wild magic effects when normal spellcasting is attempted) by directly holding a part of Mystra's power for more than a month or so.

The elf-queen Aloevan of Ardeep was one such victim. A kind, loving lady of slender - some non-elves described her as "frail," even before her decline - beauty, known for her dancing and ardent lovemaking, Embrae Aloevan suffered the same fate as Elue Shandar, mother of the Seven; her vitality was burnt away from within, leaving her, at the last, a tottering husk. Although Aloevan was proud and regal, capable of fierce firmness when ruling required it of her, she loved physical intimacy with "hes" and "shes" of elven, half-elven, human, and even halfling blood, and was quite capable of surrendering herself utterly to a human lordling in the morning, casting all dignity aside and indulging all of his whims, and then defying him from her throne, every inch a pillar of authority, on the same evening. In this, she was not capricious or whimsical, but sorrowfully steadfast in what she must do for her people and her realm, as opposed to what she did as herself. Not surprisingly, she was often forced to explain this; it is a measure of Embrae Aloevan that most who listened to her explanations heard her out to the end, and in so doing moved even from angry or ridiculing beginnings to a measure of respect (and often understanding and even acceptance). The truly noble (as opposed to noble of birth) humans who came to understand her also came to respect and often love her, and during her reign Aloevan was able to call on the services of many 'unofficial' human guardians of Ardeep.

She also served Mystra by spreading a lot of Mystra's power-in the form of aptitude for wizardry and magical 'wild talents,' in particular a bloodline still found in Waterdeep, Secomber, and Daggerford, of being able to 'feel' something of the nature of an enchantment by contact with it (an unreliable 'by images' identify and legend lore ability) - through her lovemaking, as if she imparted a gene or essence to those who lay with her although she never had children by them to pass things on in the usual way. The descendants of Aloevan's lovers, through other, later unions, exhibited magical powers as intended (Elminster believes) by Mystra.

It is important for students of Realmslore to understand that Aloevan's people did not think ill of her for consorting so freely, just as the folk of Silverymoon do not disparage Alustriel's 'court of love' and freely-given favors (witness her many sons) today."


[ 8/15/01 NOTE ]: Additional information on Embrae Aloevan can be found in this passage from the Demihumans and Deities supplement, authored by Eric Boyd;

"While the largest temples of Sehanine are found on the Green Isle, in the Vale of Evereska, and in the woods of the Elven Court, the site most sacred to the Lady of Dreams is the Tears of Aloevan. This is an otherworldly cloud of magic accessed through a mystical pool of water found in an unearthly sylvan glen at the heart of Ardeep Forest. Much like the dark elf Qilu Veladorn serves both Mystra and Eilistraee today, Aloevan was once the Chosen of both Sehanine and the Lady of Mysteries. The moon elven queen's descent into madness and her eventual death was a tragic loss for both the Fair Folk and the other human and demihuman races of the region caused by her inability to control the silver fire that raged within here.

Upon her death, Aloevan's spirit was unable to pass on to Arvanaith and was instead enmeshed within a nimbus of silver fire that hovered between Faerun and Arvandor. To assuage the madness of their queen who had sacrificed so much, seven priests of Sehanine created a link between the natural world and the spiritual limbo in which Aloevan's spirit was trapped. For centuries, Sehanine's priests have labored to ease the torment of the mad queen and in the process have recreated the long-lost court of Ardeep within the pocket dimension formed from the silver fire Aloevan could no longer control. Aloevan's spirit is now capable of manifesting in a form similar to that of a spectral harpist within the Court of Silver Fire, as the mystic temple is known, but her laughter and tears are tinged with madness and only the beneficence of the seven priests enables her to hold on to the vestiges of her sanity.

During times of a solar eclipse, passage between the glen in Ardeep Forest and the Court of Silver Fire is possible. At such times a priest of Sehanine may make his or her way to Aloevan's mystical court at Sehanine's request to replace one of the seven priests who is ready to pass on to Arvanaith. Although many others have sought entrance to Aloevan's court, none have returned to tell the tale, so it is unknown if any who were not called there by Sehanine have ever succeeded. It is rumored that the entrance to the Court of Silver Fire in Ardeep is guarded by a moonstone dragon."


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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Posted - 10 Aug 2009 :  15:49:54  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

We have had at least two named elven Chosen, though. One is the Srinshee. It's not confirmed in any sourcebook that I can think of, but Ed has said that the Srinshee is a Chosen.
Ed's also shared some brief tidbits on the Srinshee's status as a Chosen in the "Realmslore from Elminster in Myth Drannor" section of The Annotated Elminster.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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