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Sage of Stars
Seeker

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2009 :  18:19:15  Show Profile  Visit Sage of Stars's Homepage Send Sage of Stars a Private Message
Yes, easy there, Zandilar! Ed's one of the GOOD guys, remember?
Speaking of which, I seem to remember that Ed was writing something for a charity cause, but can't find any mention of it in the usual channels.
Ed, THO, care to enlighten me?
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2009 :  20:59:12  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
quote:
Originally poste by The Hooded One:
ask him some time about the farce he wrote involving two prominent Realms characters and a quite explicit sexual encounter between them that gets comically interrupted every few panting breaths by the arrival of someone [else] with a pressing problem

'Some time' has been changed to 'now'. In other words, I'm asking the question that needs to be asked.
I'll just put in one comment: I feel that acceptance is the way. Yes, I'm a religious (Modern) Orthdox Jew, and yes, that means that I don't think I'll ever engage in this. It also means that I would disapprove if my mother/sister/daughter/father/son engage in this relationsip - but not because I hate it, but because I feel that they knew what they were doing when they accepted this (religious) lifestyle, and if they want to do it, they shouldn't lie to themselves about it. I'm not saying they should abandon God and religion - but don't call yourselves 'Religious Modern Orthdox Jews' when you're doing something forbidden by that group.
Personally, I don't have any objection to orientation. I feel that I can't force people to accept my view, and I shouldn't - if they want to join my religion and forbid it on themselves, they can, but I won't make them if they don't want to.
Same for content. If there's an actual scene, I won't read it - I'm not married yet, so I'm not ready. But I won't say they shouldn't exist because they're 'corrupting' or some such blather.

EDIT: Oops. Rereading my post, I've just realized how long my 'one comment' was. I apologize, though I own't delete it because I feel a religious PoV may be useful. But if one of the mods feels the need to, do. I apologize again, and move the thread beck to questions for Ed.

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."

Edited by - Menelvagor on 01 Aug 2009 21:01:12
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A Gavel
Seeker

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2009 :  21:21:34  Show Profile  Visit A Gavel's Homepage Send A Gavel a Private Message
Put me down with those who don't think any apologies are necessary, Menelvagor. A board, a thread, and a site are always better when people feel comfortable enough to express themselves fairly freely.
And reading over Page 88, I don't see anyone going "over the line" on rudeness. Being passionate, yes, but that should never be something to apologize for. I find it refreshing to find in Ed's thread a generally high level of friendly cordiality, debate, and explanations, lore and otherwise. For selfish reading enjoyment reasons, if nothing else, I'd like it to stay that way.
So, Ed, are the two characters Piergeiron and his champion? Or Mirt and Durnan? (Just to start the tongues wagging.)
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2009 :  23:53:29  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Oh, Gavel, you DIDN'T!!!
You did.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2009 :  23:57:31  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Blueblade, Ed wants you to know he's definitely "in" on that book idea of yours. It's very similar to pitches he's made to Wizards in the past, that haven't progressed very far, so please don't hold out a lot of hope, but he WILL suggest it at GenCon to one Wizards editor he knows will be attending.
We'll just have to wait and see . . .
Although "jam" books have an all-too-frequent tendency to collapse into parody, in-jokes, and authors deliberately "getting at" each other (see some of The Detection Club releases), I would buy and read such a book in a proverbial shot.
love,
THO
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2009 :  00:01:17  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
I wasn't thinking along those lines. I was thinking Khelban and Laeral, or Elminster and the Simbul, myself. And I have to say, if it was Khelban and Laeral (and I were Khelban), I'd create an extra dimensional space just to guarantee I was left alone with her.

*looks around*

What?

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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Aysen
Learned Scribe

115 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2009 :  08:00:51  Show Profile  Visit Aysen's Homepage Send Aysen a Private Message
Hmm, here I am ready to ask Ed another lore question and I can't help but comment first on the interesting tangents floating in this thread.

1.) If we're all throwing in guesses on Ed's farcical "coitus they keep barging in to interruptus" here's mine:
Azoun/Tessaril
Mourngrym/Shaerl
Alusair/Caladnei
Alustriel/ ?

2.) On visibility of LGBT relationships in published Realms fiction, I was pleasantly surprised that a few same-sex pairings were seen in the latest novel, Erik Scott de Bie's Downshadow. One minor occurrence happened in a brothel and was a purely physical-expression/camera-pans-elsewhere kind of thing, and the other involved an important character in the book and a deeper emotional connection. I'm glad the editor(s) left them both in. I don't think either one would have made it past the editing phase if this were several years earlier.

And to get back to my question for Ed:

3.) I'm re-reading the novel Stormlight and while I'm sure a few more questions will be forthcoming, here's my first bundled one:

Early on in the book, a Cormyrean country noble and heir to his family's name dies and is cremated. They take his ashes and put them in a bowl, tie it to the saddle of his horse, and let the horse run free, thus scattering his ashes out amongst the countryside.
Is this a common practice amongst country nobles in Cormyr and elsewhere? Is there a specific term for such a ritual, like "last-ride"? Did the noble's status as family heir or the fact that he had military training factor in? What about the fact that the family patronized Chauntea (a Chauntean officiated the cremation and burial)?

Thanks Ed!
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2009 :  10:44:22  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

So saith Ed. Whom I will drop my drawers for, AND wave a banana peel at, I promise. Perhaps in the same deft movement . . .



So where's the banana then?

Gomez,
who has some ideas for the next Spin-A-Yarn.
I can also confirm that I got a ticket. Not sure if you *need* a ticket, but I got myself one.
We should smack your boss for not letting you come...


Edited by - gomez on 02 Aug 2009 10:48:45
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2009 :  11:17:36  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar

Simply allow them to be involved in a romantic (not necessarily erotic) relationship (with a person of the same gender), or have them mention their attraction to someone of the same gender in passing


I agree with Zandilar. If, say, people would ask Yellira Am’benuinyl what her relation was with Breeandra Nenthyn (who died some time ago, and whose duties Yellira took over), she might say 'We were lovers'. No sex need be shown or mentioned - a plain simple statement on how people relate. Of course, people do not ask such things easily or often, but there are moments were it has a place.
Also, you can show a loving relatioship between two people, especially over the course of a book.
It is harder in adventures (I am, obviously, not a novelist), where you don't often need to expose relationships and doing so may be seen as an 'agenda'.
But several NPCs in my adventures are (or I perceive them that way). Yellira is a lesbian (Breeandra was bisexual, but as I see it her love for Yellira was real.) Kira and Dayan, the twins, are bisexual, and very relaxed and comfortable with their own sexuality (though Kira has her own specific little issues). Despite that, when it was needed, I still choose to pair Dayan with a woman, partially because it worked better for a future story (hard to explain that without spoilers), and partially because, as a random flirt, making it a man would have been a bit tacky.

So I understand Ed in the trouble in having to stay within certain boundaries as set by WotC, but also feel that we should not hesitate too much in showing that love is universal and that gender is really optional.

Gomez

Edited by - gomez on 02 Aug 2009 11:23:21
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2887 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2009 :  14:33:32  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

He did say he's REALLY having fun with this new novel, and that it is a Realms book.
love to all,
THO


Nice...I look forward to reading it. When ever it is released.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2009 :  15:41:53  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Aysen

Azoun/Tessaril
Mourngrym/Shaerl
Alusair/Caladnei
Alustriel/ ?



Hmmmm... That brings up an interesting thought. Was Tessaril one of the characters that had a gender change? Her backstory from Haunted Halls makes it appear likely...

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe

242 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2009 :  16:27:15  Show Profile  Visit Malcolm's Homepage Send Malcolm a Private Message
No arguments with your "we should not hesitate," gomez, but that isn't what Ed SAID. He said - - which Zandilar seemed to miss entirely - - that readers should not be taking confirmation about a particular character's inclination from the brief sort of coverages that the Realms novel format allows.
As Zandilar herself said, you can misinterpret a single male-on-male scene as gay rather than bisexual. I think Ed was making it clear that his characters not only change over their lives, they experiment, and that hugs and kisses in the Realms need not tell us anything about gender preferences at all.
This seems to be twisting into some sort of complaint about not putting gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. characters into Realms novels, or Ed's failing in being able to portray them without what he called "protracted" sex scenes.
However, scribes, that just ain't what he said. Read the words in his post!
Ed said he can't CONFIRM a sexual orientation from anything less (being as editors have in the past not let him make bald statements in print about a character's orientation), and that readers are free to interpret however they'd like, but they can't "confirm" from what is allowed to be shown either, and may later get a surprise or two if they do.
Now (ahem) I have a Realmslore question that doesn't have anything to do with gender. I hope.
I want to ask about pots and pans, and where they are made in numbers (are there any factories, anywhere? or is it all individual artisans, at the "family business assembly line" level? If so, are they predominately dwarves and gnomes, or - - ?
Also, in the areas (if any) where pots and pans are produced in bulk, are they cheaper than in large trading cities? (I know they'll be more expensive out on the frontier.)
Thanks!
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2009 :  20:55:38  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Ed said he can't CONFIRM a sexual orientation from anything less


And my particular disagreement is with that statement (though, to be specific, I care less about the sexual orientation of a specific individual than the nature of specific relationships). Yes, sexual or tender activities or scenes are only moments, and can be attributed to friendship, good-natured fun or hedonism as much as love. But the nature of a relationship can, in my opinion, be made clear. I do not think WotC is that narrow minded that they would at every occasion cut a statement on their nature.
I do think it should fit a story, but if, say, two men in a story are lovers, it does not take too many words to make that clear (in fact only one: the word 'lover').

Note that in my own adventure writing, I did this exactly once, in a RPGA adventure (set in Greyhawk), where I defined the relationship between a countess and her female advisor (since that relationship explained why the advisor, despite conflicting loyalties, was still trusted).

I am sure Ed has met with some resistances - I suspect novels are screened a bit more thoroughly than RPGA adventures, and I may very well underestimate the small-mindedness of editors - but I do think there are means other than repeated sex scenes to say something about the nature of a relationship.

I'd be happy to discuss the (im)possiblities with Ed at GenCon, over a beer :)

Gomez,
Possibly being incredibly naive.
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  01:27:02  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

No arguments with your "we should not hesitate," gomez, but that isn't what Ed SAID. He said - - which Zandilar seemed to miss entirely - - that readers should not be taking confirmation about a particular character's inclination from the brief sort of coverages that the Realms novel format allows.


There's a whole lot of misunderstanding going around, I think. As I said in my second edit, I understand where he was coming from on the whole "we can't confirm a character's orientation..." Yes, it's very very difficult. You can't tell if a person is straight just because they currently happen to be in an opposite sex relationship. This is true, it's as true in Real Life as it is in a novel or a game. In fact, sexuality is quite a bit more fluid than most people give it credit for. But that's another story for another time.

However, what I vehemently disagree with is the idea that in order to make a character's sexuality clear, a writer must include protracted sex scenes. A female character who is shown to be romantically involved with another woman (with no actual sex scenes on the page), who expresses her attraction for other women in passing, while showing no interest in men, and who later actually rejects advances from a man, is clearly meant to be a lesbian. You don't need to show her having sex over and over again with women - any more than you'd need to show a heterosexual woman having sex over and over again with men. There is still room for said character to be bisexual, but it's quite unlikely.

We don't need confirmation. Confirmation is not possible in any context, honestly. You can show a person having sex with a particular gender over and over again, and they still might surprise us. What we do need is representation. Because that matters a whole lot more to people than you'd think.

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 03 Aug 2009 01:29:24
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  02:16:30  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. I bring this reply from Ed, to Zandilar's post above:


Then I don't think we have any disagreement here at all.
I'm sorry if my words upset you, Zandilar. I DO agree we need representation, and lots of it - - so that it becomes "matter of fact" calmly accepted as part of the setting.

My reply was specifically about confirmation, and the inability to do that under the limitations placed on me (before and during 2004, not so much now) in Realms fiction - - unless I limited myself to one-dimensional characters. And to one-dimensional behaviors (i.e. that kissing and hugging are always a prelude to sex or a signal that the characters involved are in a sexual relationship).

I could not have gleeful dwarves hug each other (because, according to one editor, that meant they were in a sexual relationship [to which I could only reply, "Huh?]). I could NOT have anyone clearly and baldly say they were "lovers" with anyone else (I know - - I tried!), though I could sneak close to such a statement by having an angry noble accuse someone of being so-and-so's "lover," or have some known-to-be-rude-and-crude character like Torm or Mirt allude to such status, and even have "known crazies" like Elminster or The Simbul (yes, "known crazies" was how one editor described them) utter "lovers" or "they're together" or some such - - but I couldn't have either a narrator or an "average polite" character say any such thing. The old (TSR days) Code of Ethics even specifically prohibited mention or inference of homosexuality.

The limitations have changed over time, yes, but so have the sort of stories I'm telling, so I stand by my reply re. my opinion about confirmation.
Please note that I never said that confirmation was necessary or desirable; I happen, as a writer, to always want the "elbow room" that ambiguities leave for later plot twists.
And as you know, I can signal like crazy. The ongoing problem has been the tendency for editorial hands, especially in the older days, to take happy, ongoing female-female pairings and male-male pairings and change the genders of some of the participants to shift them to male-female.
And as my Realms writing is work-for-hire and as "we're not in the business of telling Realms stories that are ABOUT sex" (to quote a long-gone editor), fights over those changes were lost causes.

Too-deep adult content (such as those very "protracted sex scenes" I mentioned) are still "off the table" these days, because those are still not the sort of stories Realms novels are supposed to be concerned with. Yet the Knights trilogy in particular allowed me to hint and calmly state and show more than ever before (except in the "hothouse" books SILVERFALL and ELMINSTER IN HELL). Those who've read my fantasy novels set outside the Realms know that I can and do get more specific, when the tale heads in that direction.

So the reply of mine that you reacted to was not a "call for more sex scenes" or my opinion about my own inability to describe sexual inclination in any other way than repeated same-gender or opposite-gender sex scenes - - it was my opinion that within the "window of opportunity" that Realms writing allowed me, readers could only be sure of a character's inclination if I limited myself to very clear-cut, simplified characters.

I did not and do not think that a reader should necessarily be "sure" of anything in a Realms novel, so long as they don't feel cheated by a writer who makes belief-shattering changes and plot twists that repeatedly rob scenes the reader has enjoyed of the meaning the reader though they had. (No one likes being tricked.)

So I think we're on the same page. If the way in which I wrote that reply upset you, I'm sorry about that, because I'm not in the business of upsetting people, in life, unless it really can't be avoided. And this CAN be avoided.

You're always welcome at my table, Zandilar. (Tea?)
Hugs,
Ed


So saith Ed. Who is a kindly and understanding man, one of life's "nice guys." Really.
love to all,
THO

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  02:30:07  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
gomez, Ed is currently wrestling with a truly hairy GenCon schedule, but if he can, he'll be happy to chat over a beer with you.
And he sent me a Realmslore reply, too, this one to Aysen, re. this: "Early on in the book, a Cormyrean country noble and heir to his family's name dies and is cremated. They take his ashes and put them in a bowl, tie it to the saddle of his horse, and let the horse run free, thus scattering his ashes out amongst the countryside.
Is this a common practice amongst country nobles in Cormyr and elsewhere? Is there a specific term for such a ritual, like "last-ride"? Did the noble's status as family heir or the fact that he had military training factor in? What about the fact that the family patronized Chauntea (a Chauntean officiated the cremation and burial)?"
Ed replies:


This is an old "upland" (rural) Cormyrean practice, also seen in the Dales and Sembia in elder days (not so much in the 1300s), known as a "grave ride" or "last ride." His nobility was a factor, yes, because the only families who did this were those who owned large tracts of land (enough for a "scattering from the saddle" to be worthwhile), but not the fact that he specifically was the heir, nor his military service or rank. Last rides were generally only done by families who felt close ties to the land (farmers [there's the Chauntea connection, in this specific case], hunters, foresters, and strong worshippers of nature gods like Silvanus and Eldath), and wanted their lost ones "returned to the land."
[[Remember, in the Realms everyone "believes in" and worships ALL of the gods, though most people feel "closest" to a handful of deities. Only clergy and a relatively few "devout lay worshippers" devote themselves primarily to a single deity.]]
In Cormyr, everyone knows what a "grave ride" or "last ride" is, and everyone sees it as "doing right by the dead" and "pleasing to the gods." That doesn't mean it's a frequent custom among most citizens, not even among nobles (who tend to prefer the family crypt with intact bodies laid to rest in it).


So saith Ed, who will get to your other questions posed in the same post later on, Aysen. He's really busy right now (the first draft of the book is on Chapter 18, I believe, but of course Ed can't let anyone see it, or say too much about it), but will send me Realmslore replies to post as he can.
love to all,
THO
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  07:59:30  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
Ahhh... Insomnia has gotten a hold of me and I've been trying to tire myself out by searching the scrolls for information on NPCs of Candlekeep. On the brigh side, I am tired enough to go to sleep. However, my searches have not found any information on personages of our fair 'keep.

Specifically, could you provide us with some details on the Gatewarden, the Chanter, the Guide and some of the Great Readers?

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  08:21:47  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Ahhh... Insomnia has gotten a hold of me and I've been trying to tire myself out by searching the scrolls for information on NPCs of Candlekeep. On the brigh side, I am tired enough to go to sleep. However, my searches have not found any information on personages of our fair 'keep.

Specifically, could you provide us with some details on the Gatewarden, the Chanter, the Guide and some of the Great Readers?

Ashe, in case you weren't already aware, you may wish to read Ed Greenwood's Introduction to Candlekeep, written especially for us herein, and which features some details on the various positions and personalities of Candlekeep.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  11:48:46  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

I could NOT have anyone clearly and baldly say they were "lovers" with anyone else


That is pretty sad. I makes me wonder what century those editors were from. I really hope that changed now.

Gomez,
who agrees that sexual orientation is not something you can really confirm since it is pretty fluid. I mean, with some NPCs, you can't even be sure of gender ;)
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1071 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  12:29:53  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One




My reply was specifically about confirmation, and the inability to do that under the limitations placed on me (before and during 2004, not so much now) in Realms fiction -

So what changed for the better after 2004, and why did it change?

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy

Edited by - khorne on 03 Aug 2009 12:30:12
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29906 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  12:38:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by gomez

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

I could NOT have anyone clearly and baldly say they were "lovers" with anyone else


That is pretty sad. I makes me wonder what century those editors were from. I really hope that changed now.


Keep in mind that when the Realms was first published, we weren't too far past the days of Jack Chick and the "D&D is evil" crusade of some prominent religious figures. They were desparate to avoid anything that cast D&D into a bad light, to the point that they "kiddy-fied" a lot of things. Evil could never be triumphant, even momentarily, everything from the Lower Planes got renamed into baatezu and tanar'ri (I actually like those names!), brothels were renamed "festhalls" (where a festive time would indeed be had!)... It's kind of surprising that in Spellfire, Lhaeo got away with saying people thought he was a "simpering man-lover".

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  13:53:06  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Ahhh... Insomnia has gotten a hold of me and I've been trying to tire myself out by searching the scrolls for information on NPCs of Candlekeep. On the brigh side, I am tired enough to go to sleep. However, my searches have not found any information on personages of our fair 'keep.

Specifically, could you provide us with some details on the Gatewarden, the Chanter, the Guide and some of the Great Readers?

Ashe, in case you weren't already aware, you may wish to read Ed Greenwood's Introduction to Candlekeep, written especially for us herein, and which features some details on the various positions and personalities of Candlekeep.



My thanks, Sage! I had read through it (and it's an excellent source), but I was wondering more about the 'names and faces' of those personages I listed.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  14:44:51  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Ah.

Ashe, you might also want to view Kuje's NPC file. I recall that it listed several of the Candlekeep personages referenced in the Realmslore. 'Twill make for pleasant reading while awaiting Ed's reply.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

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Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  16:49:30  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Ashe, the names and faces of the individuals holding those Candlekeep ranks have of course changed over time. That's one of the reasons Ed's Candlekeep piece (written for the site) keeps vague about the office-holders, as opposed to the offices. The other reaon is that Ed wanted to give DMs maximum freedom in their own campaigns to insert, move, and tailor NPCs to best fit the unfolding action in THEIR Realms.
As anyone who's read Ed's early - - and still unpublished - - Realms short story "The Endless Chants of Alaundo" can tell you, those office holders sometimes change quickly.
Wooly, I believe Ed got that particular phrase into the published SPELLFIRE because Jim Lowder protected it, in the editing process (while vetoing some of the more tortured Ed medievalisms like "think ye me a codloose winker?" [[translation: Do you take me for a flirt who really does sleep around?]]).
gomez, I agree that, yes, "pretty sad" describes it. Wooly's right about the state of thinking that prevailed from time to time, and khorne, what changed was the personnel at the company, over time, AND the general attitude of American society, over time, and therefore the approach taken to Realms novels.
BTW, for Zandilar and everyone: Ed wasn't saying that you need repeated sex scenes to confirm orientation in a character OUTSIDE Realms fiction writing, ever.
He was saying that back then, in Realms writing, that would pretty much have been the only way to make orientation clear, being as you weren't allowed to explicitly state anything about sexual matters, and being as the only hints he would have been able to sneak into print (kissing and hugging and occasional not-detailed glimpses of nudity) prove nothing at all about sexual orientation.
Ed has family visiting (again!) but is still charging along in the novel: into Chapter 19, and over halfway in total allowed wordcount, and still (he tells me) having a LOT of fun!
love to all,
THO
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2009 :  16:56:21  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
Thanks, goodsir and milady! That's what I was thinking, I just thought I'd see if there were any particulars floating out there in the ether.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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