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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2867 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  04:40:23  Show Profile
Thanks a lot, both of you. As I'm looking at Mellomir's legacy in 1470s Arabel, those will fit perfectly.
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  04:56:34  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
And then there's Paizo's Harrow Deck that could be used as an in-game fortune-telling tool (though I'd be more than a little shocked if it turned up in that article

And for once I'm actually going to make a post that's somewhat on topic...

Way back when in the first of these "Ask Ed" threads, our Lady of the Hooded Visage told us of a section where she'd not needed to bring her dice since it was going to start with her "writhing on the altar" or some such as part of an attempt to discover whether an NPC had been falsely posing as a Sharess-cultist. My question now is, how does deities in general view people who "take their name in vain" (using the worship of a god or goddess as a front for a scam or other money-making operation without actually paying homage to them [I'm guessing Mask might be quite forgiving, but what do I know])?

Is there any difference depending on the deities' alignment? And if so which axis matter most - good/evil or chaotic/lawful?

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  06:22:33  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
Regarding interhuman racism in games: there does exist a certain 'separatism'in the Realms. A specific example are Shou vs non-Shou, specifically in areas such as Nathlek city in Nathlan, where the Shou have their 'own' town.
I would not necessarily call this 'racism' as much as it is a 'clan' thing (similar to what you might find with other clan-based cultures such as the Nar), where families or a people stick to gether and form a closed society, which may prompt other restrictions such as blood ties and such (i.e. one of the Shou clans only accepts women).
I could wellsee a Shou clan accepting non-Shou as a member of the clan under the rigth circumstances (i,e, marriage, through favors, etc) and then fully be accepted as a clan member regardless of their race.
You are not likely to see actual racism in a WotC game (including LFR), since such elements are found unfit for publishment. It does mean we have to be very careful when dealing with the clan nature of some groups in FR adventures.
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Aysen
Learned Scribe

115 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  09:30:24  Show Profile  Visit Aysen's Homepage Send Aysen a Private Message
On the subject of racism between human groups, I think gomez made the salient point of why we don't see blatant "Jim Crow" institutionalization of racism in the sourcebooks, it would get edited out immediately, though only Ed can speak to what plays out in his home campaign for Malcolm.

I think the closest we come in the source material are the "superiority complexes" and enslavement practices we see among several groups:

- Imaskari enslavement over proto-Mulhorandi and proto-Untheric peoples

- "Mulan" superiorty complex in present Thay

- Halruaan isolation, and bloodline/breeding records (for ensuring superior arcane talent)

- Calishite view of the North as uncivilized and barbaric

- Zakharan view of everyone else as uncivilized and barbaric

- Faerunian imperialism and enslavement(?) of Maztican native peoples

- Moonsharran Ffolk subjugation of the Mar people of the Utter East

Edited by - Aysen on 06 Jul 2009 09:33:58
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  14:49:04  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Kajehase, at the risk of jumping in on Ed's eventual reply, I'm going to make two points by way of reply:

1. It depends (on the nature and character of the deity, of course, as you correctly pointed out).

2. Many deities operate (or do so from time to time) on the principle of "all publicity is good publicity." Of course, every one has limits, which when crossed make them decide that suddenly this particular publicity is NOT good publicity.

I'll leave it at that, and await Ed's sage response.
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  14:55:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
There are probably 'prescient' diviners of a more psionic nature as well. I think Alaundo may have been one of these (just a hunch).

While we are on the subject of the the infamous Cormyr lineage...

I have two RW friends who have teenage daughters who have recently 'run away' from home, much as Alusair did many years ago. They fled because of certain... belly broadening... reasons...

Which made me think of Alusair, and whether or not there just might be some 'secret heir' floating around out there somewhere... perhaps being raised by dwarves, or some-such.

It also made me think that I was blessed to have four boys...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Jul 2009 14:56:17
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  15:05:33  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
While we are on the subject of the the infamous Cormyr lineage...

I have two RW friends who have teenage daughters who have recently 'run away' from home, much as Alusair did many years ago. They fled because of certain... belly broadening... reasons...

Which made me think of Alusair, and whether or not there just might be some 'secret heir' floating around out there somewhere... perhaps being raised by dwarves, or some-such.
It's pretty well-established in extant lore (both published and through Ed's answers here) that, at least as of the time of Death of the Dragon, Alusair is entirely convinced that Vangerdahast's magical tampering has rendered her barren.

While it's not impossible for this lore to match up with the idea of a secret child of Alusair living among the dwarves, it's... less than probable.

Now, a secret heir from another line....
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  18:46:06  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
Oooh, a subtle hinter, our Garen.
Makes me wonder just what Cormyr novels certain scribes have up their sleeves, if Wizards ever unleashes them.
So, Garen Thal, ahem, if such a secret heir did - - hypothetically, of course - - exist, how would one hide such a babe from discovery by the War Wizards? Rear said hypothetical well away from the realm? If so, how would they come to really know and care about Cormyr? If not, how would you hide them "under the noses" of everyone without some busy little mind-reamer uncovering everything? Are there magical defenses?

Personally, I find the "hiding in Cormyr" option more exciting for play purposes. The "rearing far away across the Realms" option realistically runs the risk of the grown-up heir being told of their heritage and saying, "What? Stick my head into a noose on behalf of some place I've barely heard of, clear across the world? No fear! I'm staying right here, and to the Nine Hells with your Dragon Throne and crown and all!"

If you really ARE at work on something and don't want to answer this so as to not to harm your chances at publication or say too much, I quite understand. Just say so, and I'll go away and gleefully nurse my hunger for someday seeing such a tale or adventure. Just as I right now brood about the chances of Ed being handed back the Realms to publish his way...

And, just to keep this right for this thread, how do you feel about such future Cormyr possibilities, Ed? THO? I mean Garen or others writing things Cormyrean, because I KNOW you can't tell us about anything you're planning to write. Ed, would you have secret heirs up your sleeve, just on design principles? (I'm thinking you would, but it would be lovely to know I've sussed your thinking right.)
Thanks to all, in advance, and I'm now eagerly waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . .
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  19:42:23  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Baleful Avatar

Oooh, a subtle hinter, our Garen.
Makes me wonder just what Cormyr novels certain scribes have up their sleeves, if Wizards ever unleashes them.
So, Garen Thal, ahem, if such a secret heir did - - hypothetically, of course - - exist, how would one hide such a babe from discovery by the War Wizards? Rear said hypothetical well away from the realm? If so, how would they come to really know and care about Cormyr? If not, how would you hide them "under the noses" of everyone without some busy little mind-reamer uncovering everything? Are there magical defenses?

Personally, I find the "hiding in Cormyr" option more exciting for play purposes. The "rearing far away across the Realms" option realistically runs the risk of the grown-up heir being told of their heritage and saying, "What? Stick my head into a noose on behalf of some place I've barely heard of, clear across the world? No fear! I'm staying right here, and to the Nine Hells with your Dragon Throne and crown and all!"

If you really ARE at work on something and don't want to answer this so as to not to harm your chances at publication or say too much, I quite understand. Just say so, and I'll go away and gleefully nurse my hunger for someday seeing such a tale or adventure. Just as I right now brood about the chances of Ed being handed back the Realms to publish his way...

And, just to keep this right for this thread, how do you feel about such future Cormyr possibilities, Ed? THO? I mean Garen or others writing things Cormyrean, because I KNOW you can't tell us about anything you're planning to write. Ed, would you have secret heirs up your sleeve, just on design principles? (I'm thinking you would, but it would be lovely to know I've sussed your thinking right.)
Thanks to all, in advance, and I'm now eagerly waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . .
I'm going to answer your question by not quite answering your question.

Please keep in mind that it's very unlikely that any legitimately presentable heirs would have been born to ruling Obarskyrs or their immediate kin at any point during the tenure of Vangerdahast (this meaning Azoun, his sister Sulesta, his father Rhigaerd II, or either of his adult children). Things are pretty well accounted for in most generations on either side of that iconic crowned head.

There are bastards, sure, in near every lifetime, but legitimate heirs to the Dragon Throne in the era that most scribes are familiar with (1350s to 1370s DR)? Not without some very creative thread-tugging.

As for the royal family and its possibilities, let me just say that if I had the rest of my life to write, and the freedom to do so, I might be able to get it all out. Ed, of course, is familiar with some of these ideas (in broad strokes), because they've been the subject of more than one whispered conversation in the Marriott lobby and elsewhere at GenCon (and likely will be again, this year).

Let's just say that I have a book or two in me, at least, and leave it there for now.
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ddporter
Seeker

26 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2009 :  21:38:39  Show Profile Send ddporter a Private Message
I have just returned home from the International Convention and Contest of the Barbershop Harmony Society, and bring a Question for Ed (TM):

Which cultures in the Realms have traditions of a cappella harmony singing, and what does it sound like? (Yes, I know; writing about music... insert your own definition of futility here. But if anyone can describe music through the written word, it's Ed.)

Barbershopping Realms fan (any others out there?)
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  00:10:02  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
I like old barbershop recordings, before it got all showy with forty-two "descants" and rounds and all of that. (I find some of the newer stuff too "bright" and clashy, like the Andrews Sisters harmonizing.)

Re. your question to Ed: I sat and watched (all the players' seats were "taken," it being a charity auction bidding for seats at the table) an Ed-run Realms play session at a long-ago Milwaukee GenCon, and the PCs found themselves literally falling (through a ceiling) into a temple where a service to Chauntea was taking place: a congregation was planting seeds under the leadership of a priest, who would sing a line, more or less on one note (dipping down and then back up at the end), and the congregation would then in unison sing a (thunderous) response. It wasn't plainsong, because the congregation sang a more-or-less-one-note line of lyrics that then climbed into a harmonizing chord at the end. Ed sang it all, of course. Quite striking.
I remember hearing several times that Ed and all of his family sang in church choirs, and Ed parents first met in a professional choir, so I'd imagine Ed has plenty of musical Realmslore.
Oh, and I remember a later GenCon moment: someone played a Paul Robeson recording, as part of a Call of Cthulhu adventure, and the recording (tape cassette) broke in the middle - - and Ed, from right across the gaming hall, turned and sang the rest of the verse. JUST like Robeson.
BB
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  02:32:08  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal

<chop>
Now, a secret heir from another line....


Hrm... anything to do with Queen Silbran (widow of King Ulbaeram, and also a blood descendant of Faerlthann, as revealed in response to my pestering some time ago), or is this possibly to do with Azoun IV's cousins Bhereu and Thomdor (both killed in the Abraxus Affair)?

I realized as I was typing the above just how far I'm reaching here, but the unbridled speculation is part of the fun... more likely, I suspect, is an heir descended from the tangled webs of unclear parentage surrounding the other monarchs of the Thronestrife...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 07 Jul 2009 02:33:41
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  08:53:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

... so I'd imagine Ed has plenty of musical Realmslore.
Oh yes, and I'd very much like to get my hands on all of it.

I've spent the last ten years compiling all the references to musical Realmslore in the published sources. And I'm still not done. Even now, I'm finding references and tidbits related to music and its practice in the Realms that I'd missed earlier.

Having said that, ddporter, I've found some references to the practice of a capella music in the Realmslore. I'll send you a small file compiling those references, while you await Ed's response [I know I am ].

And as for what it sounds like, I've often assumed that the choral singing heard in the temple of Tempus in the Icewind Dale CRPG is one example.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  12:39:26  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Kajehase, at the risk of jumping in on Ed's eventual reply, I'm going to make two points by way of reply:


Thank you The Hodde One.

I'm waiting eagerly then - and feel free to jump as much you like, I'm sure no-one here is going to mind

Gods... that was bad even by my standards

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore

USA
1714 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  14:39:00  Show Profile  Visit BEAST's Homepage Send BEAST a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

Thank you The Hodde One.

Hooded One + Hotty One -> Hodde One?

A-questin' to the Sex Shoppe to inquire of The Hodde One . . .

Hey, that could almost work for a radio call sign . . .
quote:
Fugly Two, Fugly Two
This is Hodde One, Over . . .



Ahem.

Somebody over on RAS.com recently asked if Emlyn/Emelyn the Gray, of the Bloodstone gang, ever met Elminster. We've been told that Em' was quite the adventurer when he was younger, yet he's gotten kinda crotchety and has decided to settle down in Bloodstone in his later years. But might he have e'er exchanged a spell or a tale with ol' El', back in the day?

"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)

<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works">
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  14:55:33  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Hrm... anything to do with Queen Silbran (widow of King Ulbaeram, and also a blood descendant of Faerlthann, as revealed in response to my pestering some time ago), or is this possibly to do with Azoun IV's cousins Bhereu and Thomdor (both killed in the Abraxus Affair)?
No. Now patience.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  15:34:48  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, all.
BEAST, Ed and Bob have always worked matters in the Realms out thus: they talk things over. Happily, as two friends. That very much includes using each other's characters, or (far more often) just keeping them out of each others' way. I sent your post to Ed, and he responded thus:


Years back we agreed that Emlyn and Elminster would both have known of each other, and that they are friendly with each other and don't step on each other's toes. (Matters MUST be that way, to allow Bob's plots to unfold as they do without a certain annoying Old Mage showing up to meddle. Which those who've read the books know he hasn't.)
So, yes, they know each other, are friendly, don't see each other often, and as mages whose actions have far-reaching consequences, take care to keep out of tangling in each others' work. If the world wasn't such a dangerous place that didn't keep them so busy, and they could relax and visit more often, they'd probably wind up as very close friends, hanging out together of evenings and lazy afternoons.
Like Bob and me. :}


So saith Ed, and there you have it.
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  18:14:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
I really doubt there is any Mage of power in Faerūn... perhaps even all of Toril*... that Elminster hasn't 'met' and evaluated. I say 'met' because it most-likely was in disquise, and the other mage was probably completely unaware that he had met Elminster.

However, I like to think that there were a couple of Archmages that just pretended ignorance, and was well-aware of who they were dealing with, and chose to just "play along" (which means they had gotten the better of El, unless of course he realized that they knew who he was, and he himself decided to just continue to "play the game" and see where it lead).


* I say "all of Toril" because I have come across his name numerous times in the Kara-Tur material, including one reference to him being a 'demi-god' (obviously some Wujen's perception of him after one of those 'evaluations'). Hmmmm... considering that both Chosen and Demi-gods have been rolled into the term 'Exarch' in 4e, I suppose that Oriental mage wasn't far off the mark afterall.

I have yet to come-across his name in any Zakharan material, but I'm sure more then a few Sha'ir have encountered the Old Mage as well. Mystra's Weave extends to all of Toril, and I'm sure she likes to keep tabs on what's going on 'elsewhere'.

Which actually brings me to yet-another question (my backlog may be approaching Wooly's and Sage's at this point ). Does/did Mystra have Chosen outside of Faerūn proper? I think it would be REALLY interesting to hear about any Sha'ir and Wu Jen Chosen (or Magisters).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Jul 2009 18:16:22
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  19:07:05  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal

quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Hrm... anything to do with Queen Silbran (widow of King Ulbaeram, and also a blood descendant of Faerlthann, as revealed in response to my pestering some time ago), or is this possibly to do with Azoun IV's cousins Bhereu and Thomdor (both killed in the Abraxus Affair)?
No. Now patience.


Thank you, Garen, for so quickly and decisively squashing my speculations, and thereby assisting my patience. I sincerely hope for this to be my last posting on this subject before it is time to thank you, Ed, and others for all your hard work in getting this lore to see the light of day.

Enough said... I hope.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  19:33:06  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Heh. Markustay, yes to El checking out mages in disguise, and yes to some of them tumbling to it and him knowing they know and so on, and YES to Mystra having Chosen outside Faerun.
About which I'll see just how much I can wheedle Ed into saying...
love,
THO
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3066 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  20:16:00  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Heh. Markustay, yes to El checking out mages in disguise, and yes to some of them tumbling to it and him knowing they know and so on, and YES to Mystra having Chosen outside Faerun.
About which I'll see just how much I can wheedle Ed into saying...
love,
THO



I have a feeling I'm going to have to do a happy dance if the words "Chosen" and "Kara-tur" are in his answer...

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  21:37:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Yuppers.

I hear ya'... I'm "as giddy as a school girl" ATM (I always wanted to use that phrase... though I'm not sure what, exactly, they are so giddy about... perhaps THO would care to reminisce and share with us all).

Just the thought of Elminster in Kara-Tur gives me tingles, even though I know he knew Mei Lung personally. Then again, El befriending Dragons is nothing new...

I could also easily see him as a guest of the Grand Caliph... dancing harem girls would definately be something 'up his alley'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29635 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  22:00:29  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


I hear ya'... I'm "as giddy as a school girl" ATM (I always wanted to use that phrase... though I'm not sure what, exactly, they are so giddy about... perhaps THO would care to reminisce and share with us all).


And while she's reminiscing, perhaps she can dress the part!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2376 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  22:28:26  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message
How you were made a moderator I will never understand...

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29635 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  23:57:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

How you were made a moderator I will never understand...



It's my ready wit, infectious smile, roguish good looks, and a fine selection of blackmail photos.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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