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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2009 :  13:19:24  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by gomez
Or just make all of them women. As long as they are not all seven-sister-like hot babes. We need more strong women that are not stunningly beautiful, imo.


This! Heavens yes, very much this.

It seems far more acceptable for men to be less than attractive in fiction.

(I can get behind everything you said there, Gomez. )

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2391 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2009 :  13:53:01  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message
On the topic of librarians (and by extension, archivists, of which I am one), I'll echo Asgetrion. I'm in DC, and practically all of the positions here in both fields are contract-based. I have a friend who is (currently) a librarian for the US State Department, and he's said that his resume makes perfect sense to anyone in DC, but if he goes elsewhere, people look at it and say, "You were at this job for eight months, then you quit, at this job for two years, then you quit, this other job for three months, then you quit. What's your problem sticking with one job??" When in actual fact they were all contract positions (public, private, and NGO), where the money can run out at any moment.

Private librarians (and in this category I'll throw in Non-Governmental Organizations) do tend to pay better. They make up for it with being much less stable. For instance, I had a job that was a contract position and one morning my boss called all of us in and told us the money ran out that morning and this was all our last day. He was really sorry, but there was nothing he could do.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1076 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2009 :  15:20:12  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by gomez

We need more strong women that are not stunningly beautiful, imo.
Lady Lord Addee Ulphor of Shadowdale fits that description nicely I'd say.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2009 :  15:29:46  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, everyone.
This time I bring the words of Ed in response to this query from gomez: "Talking about strong women: excepting some specific groups or cultures, the Realms are less gender-biased, right? Does that mean the boss of a crime syndicate, the hired mercenary, or the bully thug has equal chance of being male or female?
I am particularly interested in the gender 'demographics' of such type of groups in areas such as Cormyr, the Dragoncoast, and the Dalelands."
Ed replies:

Hi, gomez. Well, most bully thugs tend to be male just because there are more large, lumbering, upper-body-strong males than females (due to mothers feeding their children more and better food than they themselves eat, and girl children often marrying young and turning into more relatively-underfed mothers), but the boss of a gang of thugs is just as likely to be female as male (chief qualification being so smart and swift-witted that the other thugs respect you and believe your brains will net them better lives than if they operated alone), but for most other professions, there IS almost no gender bias. In my version of the Realms, anyway. Again, most female mercenaries specialize in thrown knives, hand crossbows, darts, or bows of various sorts, and javelins or spears, rather than "hack toe to toe" weapons - - but that doesn't make them any less effective as mercenaries.
There will be a few women in positions of power who ARE very beautiful, and trade on this - - just as there are handsome men who trade on their looks, too. Several crime bosses in Tethyr are beautiful and cling to a naive, innocent, "sweet" act, garb, and looks - - until the time comes for them to reveal their true selves (usually swiftly and bloodily).
And yes, if you read my Realms novels, you'll find quite a few instances of women who aren't physically stunning (though some of these know quite well how to be attractive, by force of personality or flirtatiousness or other wiles, when it suits them to be). Meaning: a DM running an adventure (or a designer crafting one) can by all means use the female foe of PCs who acts demure or weak or in need of their protection until the best moment arrives to turn on the PCs. In the Realms, women may be inexperienced or misinformed, but they are NOT stupid.
The published Realms, particularly in its art, has tended to focus on the stereotypical scantily-clad female who's either a femme fatale or a submissive "on display" female, but that's not the Realms you'll encounter in my play sessions.
As the gruff veteran Purple Dragon advice hath it: "If you're captured, lad, DON'T let them give you to the women." :}


So saith Ed. Who believes this in life as well as in the Realms, folks. He loves to flirt, but he considers it flirting with EQUALS, and not toying with a succession of easily-fooled women who will become conquests. Trust me; I've known Ed for some forty years now.
love,
THO
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D-brane
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
140 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2009 :  16:05:03  Show Profile  Visit D-brane's Homepage Send D-brane a Private Message
Ed, I have a question from another thread which I'll just repost here - -

quote:
Originally posted by D-brane

Now, before we get too far, I know and appreciate the info about Realms and real world comparisons. This isn't really about all that. I just need some help for an upcoming part of my Rashemen campaign.

As it stands now, I don't have much time to write-up any specific info on a few of the places in the NE Realms that my PCs will be visiting. Places like the Great Glacier, Sossal, Vaasa, and Narfell. So I thought I'd cheat for the time being, and scour some real-world sources for info that I could spend a few minutes tweaking in order to make it feel "Realmsian."

Which brings me to this post. What real-world locations would you associate with the Realms of the Great Glacier, Sossal, Narfell, and Vaasa? Any history/cultural sites would be a plus. But I'm really just looking for suggestions from the posters here at the 'Keep. What real-world places do you see as best reflecting the Realms locations I asked about?

Thanks in advance.


Can you help me with this?

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2009 :  17:06:47  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
D-brane, in order to assist Ed further, I'm including this next post you made about what you're looking for exactly, in terms of comparisons.

Ed/THO, consider this part of D-brane's above post:-
quote:
Originally posted by D-brane

Thanks Ashe. That helps.

But to be a little clearer, I'm actually looking for the medieval-equivalent of these Realms locations. Kind of what like Ed originally did when he was working on the core Realms areas.

And I'll go ask Ed as well. Thanks again.


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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13575 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2009 :  17:34:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
One example of a strong-yet-unattractive 'powerful' female I can think of off is Blentra Whaelbuckler, "a local eccentric of prodigous girth and strength". She owns the best restaurant in Marsember, and is a covert Harper Agent. For a visual, I picture that woman that Hagrid fell in love with in the Harry Potter movie Goblet of Fire, and like that character, I would swear she had some giantish or Ogre-blood running through her veins.

There's a picture of her on pg.46 of Volo's Guide to Cormyr, tossing a grown man through the air like sack of potatoes!

But like the 'incredibly beautiful' atypical NPCs, she still stands-out. The majority of Harper Agents (and the sneakiest because of it) are the ones who look nondescript - neither ugly or attractive, who are able to easilly blend into any crowd.

We only see the 'unnusual' ones depicted in Realms-art, because fantasy artists prefer to depict that type of female/male, and that's what 'sells'. For every one of those, there are a hundred we never see.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jun 2009 17:37:14
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2009 :  19:17:05  Show Profile  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
(SNIP)

We only see the 'unnusual' ones depicted in Realms-art, because fantasy artists prefer to depict that type of female/male, and that's what 'sells'. For every one of those, there are a hundred we never see.



I've always thought the same thing: Most of the fantasy art 'bias' toward beautiful, scantily-clad women, and ruggedly handsome, mighty-thewed men was for 2 reasons: 1) They catch the eye, and since that's the whole point to a book jacket, that's what the artists are paid to do, and probably even more so 2) How much easier is it to draw/paint/etc attractive, striking, distinctive people than ordinary, nondescript ones? Not being an artist myself, I don't know, but it seems to me that having outstanding features to depict is probably quite a lot simpler than the reverse.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2009 :  02:36:23  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Hi, D-brane.
Re. this: "But to be a little clearer, I'm actually looking for the medieval-equivalent of these Realms locations. Kind of what like Ed originally did when he was working on the core Realms areas."

As Ed and others have told us many times, this is exactly what Ed DIDN'T do when creating the Realms. It was TSR that bolted "real world equivalents" onto Ed's fantasy Realms, not Ed.

Now, I do recall Ed accessing photographs of real-world topography in the past to tell TSR artists and some gamers, "Region X of the Realms looks like Photo A in topography, but with foliage like Photo B."

THO will correct me, i'm sure, if I'm wrong on this.
BB
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2009 :  05:08:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

Hi, D-brane.
Re. this: "But to be a little clearer, I'm actually looking for the medieval-equivalent of these Realms locations. Kind of what like Ed originally did when he was working on the core Realms areas."

As Ed and others have told us many times, this is exactly what Ed DIDN'T do when creating the Realms. It was TSR that bolted "real world equivalents" onto Ed's fantasy Realms, not Ed.

Now, I do recall Ed accessing photographs of real-world topography in the past to tell TSR artists and some gamers, "Region X of the Realms looks like Photo A in topography, but with foliage like Photo B."

THO will correct me, i'm sure, if I'm wrong on this.
BB


Indeed. And both Ed and the Lady Hooded One have discussed this at length in previous replies here at Candlekeep.

They're required reading D-brane, especially if you're looking for assistance in fleshing out your own home Realms campaign.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2009 :  19:13:59  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. Ed has family visiting again, and is hampered in his online time (and Realms-attention time, too!) hereby, but has managed to produce lore in response to a promise I made in the Realms Challenge thread.
The Simbul (our scribe here at the Keep by that name, that is) posed an excellent multi-part question in challenge to fellow scribes; that of naming the apprentices of The Simbul (the in-the-Realms character of that name, Ed's creation). It was answered, largely by Fillow and George Krashos, and the challenges have moved on.
However, I promised The Simbul (the scribe) that I would provide the list of apprentices I had in my player's notes, drawn from Ed's handouts, comments, and my remembrances of play sessions, if Ed gave me permission to do so.
Well, Ed went one better, as usual. He checked his NDAs and then passed along a longer list of his own - - and here it is.

According to Ed’s notes, an incomplete list of The Simbul’s DIRECT apprentices down the years (that is, individuals she trained personally, on more than an one-incident or single task basis; she instructed many, many groups of mages on spell-work for specific battles) is as given hereafter. Note that these are the “callings” used by individuals when actually apprenticed to The Simbul, not necessary their real, entire, or best-known names.


Alaeya Summerstar
Alueeme Saryn (“The Masked One”)
Bowmyn Starbridge
Braskelo Moonweather
Brenna Graycloak
Callond Mornbright
Daerovyn Bracegaunt
Emraryl Silver
Evenyl Tharnian (Evenyl Nathtalond)
Filaerra Firehorn
Gelroar Sparpyke
Haerla Glasryn
Hondrar Silver
Indrin Melpretarr
Ismur Isyioanthan (“Isyio of Teziir”)
Jasma Palondorn
Jelarra Haelhart
Kethrae Alantrorra
Labranth Harpell
Luin Alamanther
Lyran Duskwood
“Mandrar” (Manshoon clone)
Melué Helmantle
Nalandra Ravendown
Ohland Grethgar
Omrae Manannthor
Phaeldara Mrallow
Phendelopé Dracostrond
Roryn Ostil
Soebraya Tarntarth
Thorneira Thalance
Trestar Zhelankho
Veldarra Maerynd
Vorn Halakrand
Yarrana Tambranthur


(And there are more, but some are still NDA’d and others tied to possible future projects by other creators whose hands Ed doesn’t want to tie by mentioning anything as of yet.)
Just the names thus far, but if you wheedle Ed with sufficient vigor . . .
love to all,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29999 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2009 :  19:34:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Well, I'll ask for more info about a few (mainly chosen because of cool names, though I'd really like to know about the Manshoon clone!)...

Alaeya Summerstar
Alueeme Saryn (“The Masked One”)
Bowmyn Starbridge
Braskelo Moonweather
Daerovyn Bracegaunt
Emraryl Silver
Hondrar Silver
Ismur Isyioanthan (“Isyio of Teziir”)
Jelarra Haelhart
Labranth Harpell
Luin Alamanther
Lyran Duskwood
“Mandrar” (Manshoon clone)
Nalandra Ravendown
Phendelopé Dracostrond


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Malcolm
Learned Scribe

242 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2009 :  20:01:39  Show Profile  Visit Malcolm's Homepage Send Malcolm a Private Message
Well, it was George Krashos who remembered the Manshoon clone, and I believe The Simbul said in replying to him that this clone hadn't been mentioned in 3e lore, so I'm thinking he's in CLOAK AND DAGGER or earlier. George?
Looking down the list, I'm going to guess that Luin Alamanther is the mage we just knew as "Alamanther," and that the Summerstar, Harpell, and Silver apprentices are all from the already-known families of those names (from Cormyr, Longsaddle, and Aglarond respectively).
Am I right? THO? Ed?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29999 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2009 :  20:15:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Well, it was George Krashos who remembered the Manshoon clone, and I believe The Simbul said in replying to him that this clone hadn't been mentioned in 3e lore, so I'm thinking he's in CLOAK AND DAGGER or earlier. George?


The Manshoon Wars were in Cloak & Dagger. That is indeed where that clone was mentioned, though he wasn't given a name. When the 3E FRCS came out, they kinda just brushed the Manshoon Wars to the side and left us with three surviving clones.


quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Looking down the list, I'm going to guess that Luin Alamanther is the mage we just knew as "Alamanther," and that the Summerstar, Harpell, and Silver apprentices are all from the already-known families of those names (from Cormyr, Longsaddle, and Aglarond respectively).
Am I right? THO? Ed?



I'm assuming the same thing, but either way, I would like to know more about them. The familiarity of some of those names is why I picked them.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  01:38:24  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
My Lady, I'll echo Wooly's listing, and also ask about those he missed, since some of the names intrigue me particularly:-

Callond Mornbright
Evenyl Tharnian (Evenyl Nathtalond)
Filaerra Firehorn
Gelroar Sparpyke
Haerla Glasryn
Indrin Melpretarr
Kethrae Alantrorra
Melué Helmantle
Ohland Grethgar
Omrae Manannthor
Phaeldara Mrallow
Roryn Ostil
Soebraya Tarntarth
Thorneira Thalance
Trestar Zhelankho
Veldarra Maerynd
Vorn Halakrand
Yarrana Tambranthur

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  01:40:54  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

Looking down the list, I'm going to guess that Luin Alamanther is the mage we just knew as "Alamanther," and that the Summerstar, Harpell, and Silver apprentices are all from the already-known families of those names (from Cormyr, Longsaddle, and Aglarond respectively).
Am I right? THO? Ed?

Ed, I wouldn't mind also hearing about how these particular apprentices fared among their already "well-known" families.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  02:27:27  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
I've always thought the same thing: Most of the fantasy art 'bias' toward beautiful, scantily-clad women, and ruggedly handsome, mighty-thewed men was for 2 reasons: 1) They catch the eye, and since that's the whole point to a book jacket, that's what the artists are paid to do, and probably even more so 2) How much easier is it to draw/paint/etc attractive, striking, distinctive people than ordinary, nondescript ones? Not being an artist myself, I don't know, but it seems to me that having outstanding features to depict is probably quite a lot simpler than the reverse.



It is quite possible to be distinctive without being overtly attractive.

If you saw a woman walk into a bar with a scar down the left side of her face that had taken her eye, which can plainly be seen because she doesn't have a patch covering the ruined eye socket, but her non-marred features are relatively plain looking... You'd notice her, I'm sure.

That's a rather extreme example - but how about Elminster-in-female-form - Elmara? She's got a beak-like nose, but is rather plain otherwise... She's distinctive.

I could go on and on with this, but I think I've made my point.

Edited to Add: Rather than post another reply right after this one (I was in a hurry and didn't manage to read the rest of the thread from the message I replied to here), some of the names in the list are ambiguous (to me) regarding gender... Would be nice to at least have that cleared up.

Also, I'd like Ed to expand on whichever of the apprentices has the biggest impact on the Simbul's life. And whichever is his personal favorite. (I don't mind if that turns out to be the same one. )

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 28 Jun 2009 04:30:00
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13575 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  04:40:42  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
I'd be more interested in knowing if they are all human, or rather, 'humanish' (which would include demi-humans). I think it would be kinda cool if there were a couple of oddballs thrown in there, like a Goblinoid, or even an Illithid.

Leave it to the Simbul to create a Kobold Archmage.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jun 2009 04:41:58
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4824 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  05:26:11  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
I'm in the process of collating Ed's answers here for my own ends and I came across this post from the Simbul about ... THE Simbul.

quote:
Originally posted by The Simbul
In either case however, the information is sparse. Beyond that, there is a short story about her in Dragon #242 that takes place in the Year of the Roaring Tempest (1016 DR), and the memory of Elminster when he first encountered her appears in Elminster in Hell in the Year of the Burning Steel (1246 DR). In terms of the timeline of the Realms, these are the earliest events of her life to be explored in published stories.



As a consequence of other projects, I've been looking at the Simbul's pre-reign activities and I had another look at this snippet from 'Elminster in Hell'. The book's preface says that the first 'confrontation' between Elminster and the Simbul occurs in the Year of Burning Steel (1246 DR). I note however that the snippet talks about Aglarond's ruler being Queen Ilione. She didn't ascend to the throne of that realm until the Year of the Broken Blade(1260 DR) [incorrectly dated in GHotR as 1261 DR]. Is the story 'dating' in error (i.e. does this event actually occur after 1260 DR)? I note also that the "meeting date" of 1246 DR comes from "Seven Sisters" (p.9). Thara and Ulae lived until 1257 DR so .. what gives?

Also, as an aside, the story snippet on their meeting and the accompanying piece in "Seven Sisters" seems to imply that the Simbul is aware of her bond with Mystra at the time of their encounter. On this, is she aware that she is "Chosen" or simply "special"? When did she learn that she was "Chosen" and about her abilities (i.e. silverfire etc.) Is she aware that she has sisters? If so, when did this happen?

Lore-hungry as always. The yum-cha this morning has filled the provender void, but now I need some Realms sustenance!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 28 Jun 2009 05:33:19
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  06:28:26  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Correct me if I am mistaken: The Simbul's primary apprentices (who are also regals) who appear in books (notably Silverfall and Elminster in Hell), were Alueeme Saryn (“The Masked One”), Evenyl Tharnian (Evenyl Nathtalond), Phaeldara Mrallow, and Thorneira Thalance ("The Small Fury"), yes? Do they appear elsewhere in books or sourcebooks?


"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."

Edited by - Menelvagor on 28 Jun 2009 06:36:35
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Aysen
Learned Scribe

115 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  12:41:51  Show Profile  Visit Aysen's Homepage Send Aysen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Also, as an aside, the story snippet on their meeting and the accompanying piece in "Seven Sisters" seems to imply that the Simbul is aware of her bond with Mystra at the time of their encounter. On this, is she aware that she is "Chosen" or simply "special"? When did she learn that she was "Chosen" and about her abilities (i.e. silverfire etc.) Is she aware that she has sisters? If so, when did this happen?




The exposition in the first chapter of Lynn Abbey's The Simbul's Gift answers most of these. As a toddler, Alassra was given to the care of the Witches of Rashemen by Elminster and he told them she was an orphan without sisters. She was probably oblivious to her siblings until Elminster or Mystra revealed them later after she was a Chosen (the novel doesn't say).

However, the novel explains that Alassra was already a powerful sorceress before she became the Simbul or Chosen. While exploring the planes, she realizes she doesn't age and is "special" somehow. Later during her lost wanderings, she meets and falls in love with Lailomun Zerad, a Thayan mageling. Lailomun's mentor Mythrell'aa discovered their tryst, and definitively ended that relationship, perhaps kindling Alassra's hate of Red Wizards.

Alassra then retreats to the planes to gather spell components to take her vengeance on Thay. While there, Mystra confronts her and after a month of confrontation, Alassra returns to Toril as a Chosen. Soon after she settles in Aglarond and becomes a part of that realm's history. Unfortunately no dates or Roll Year names are given for any of the above, so its hard to know how many years Alassra spent as the Simbul before Elminster confronts her in 1246DR.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  15:08:00  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
A passing note re. the 35th Annual ORIGINS Awards: the FRCG lost out, but Devil’s Due, Jim Lowder, et al won for WORLDS OF DUNGEONS & DRAGONS 2 (which included “Elminster At the MageFair”).
George, I quite agree the conflicts and fuzzinesses re. El and The simbul’s early encounters need to be cleared up, and have forwarded your post to Ed - - but I have to stress that most of the NDAs Ed is stickhandling around directly concern The Simbul’s activities (rather than most of her apprentices), and it may take a little while for Ed to literally negotiate his way through them (he and Lynn are friends, and he doesn’t think she’ll be doing another Realms novel soon, and “elbow room” for her to do so are linked to some of the NDAs, but since the advent of Hasbro, simple “gentlemens’ agreements” [ladies included or not] are no longer so simple).
However, I can go through the list again and give a LITTLE more information, in the way of gender (aside from my speculations, not race, yet, although most of them are going to be human or half-elven):

Alaeya Summerstar: f
Alueeme Saryn (“The Masked One”): f
Bowmyn Starbridge: m
Braskelo Moonweather: m
Brenna Graycloak: f
Callond Mornbright: m
Daerovyn Bracegaunt: m
Emraryl Silver: f
Evenyl Tharnian (Evenyl Nathtalond): f
Filaerra Firehorn: f
Gelroar Sparpyke: m [this guy may be a half-orc or something exotic, because of the way he was spoken of by the NPC we Knights met, who mentioned him]
Haerla Glasryn: f [she may be exotic, too; cambion? Alu-fiend? Some sort of lower-planar/human crossbreed?]
Hondrar Silver: m
Indrin Melpretarr: m
Ismur Isyioanthan (“Isyio of Teziir”): m
Jasma Palondorn: f
Jelarra Haelhart: f [noted as “a wild one” by NPC commentator]
Kethrae Alantrorra: f
Labranth Harpell: m
Luin Alamanther: m
Lyran Duskwood: m
“Mandrar” (Manshoon clone): m
Melué Helmantle: f
Nalandra Ravendown: f
Ohland Grethgar: m
Omrae Manannthor: f
Phaeldara Mrallow: f
Phendelopé Dracostrond: f [“a noble from somewhere; Tethyr?” was the NPC comment]
Roryn Ostil: m
Soebraya Tarntarth: f
Thorneira Thalance: f
Trestar Zhelankho: m
Veldarra Maerynd: f
Vorn Halakrand: m
Yarrana Tambranthur: f


So there’s another step in this tantalizing “slow peel and reveal” we seem to be doing. (Ahem; SUCH a foreign concept for moi!)
More when I can find out more,
Love,
THO
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  15:17:39  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

so.
Well, Ed went one better, as usual. He checked his NDAs and then passed along a longer list of his own - - and here it is.



I had half expected - well, hoped, perhaps - to see Breeandra Nenthyn among them. Not that I ever thought Breeandra was more than a dabbler in the arts, but some hints in Volo's Guide implied that the two knew each other more than just in passing... unless 'Brenna Graycloak' refers to Breeandra?
If it doesn't break NDA's (Breeandra Nenthyn died some time ago now), would Ed be able to tell a bit about whether existed a relation between the two?

Gomez
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  15:24:45  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all!
George, this just in, from Ed:
The story dating in ELMINSTER IN HELL is indeed in error: the "memory snippet" that was published in that novel took place in 1262 DR.
The two DID meet in 1246 DR, in a scene that was edited out of EL IN HELL for length reasons (a LOT got snipped out of that book, for those same reasons). El was posing as someone else, in a magical disguise and using another name, to work against certain Thayan mages in a subtle rather than a "I'm a Chosen, my spells defy and defeat thee, hahahaha!" manner. The Simbul (I don't know if she was using that name at the time) was also in conflict with the Thayans, and the two of them ended up as brief, temporary allies in spell-battle.
Ed doesn't have time to try to retrieve that scene right now (it's on one of several hundred backup floppy discs, the computer it was written on having crashed, Zip drive first and the Zip cartridge in it dying an inglorious death in the process), but promises me he'll unearth it eventually. And either share it here at the Keep or try to get it onto the WotC website (free part only!), or something of the sort.
I never read the scene, so I can't tell you if El recognized The Simbul as the child he'd left with the Witches, or if Mystra or Azuth was keeping the Chosen informed as to the maturing and progress of the Seven all along, or . . . anything. I AM fairly certain, from the way Ed spoke of the scene, that The Simbul didn't know who her temporary ally really was.
So the "bad date" tag left in the published EL IN HELL referred to the wrong scene: the one that got taken out, rather than the one that survived (its date tag got edited out in error).
Sigh.
It's things like this that start wars in our real world . . .
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 28 Jun 2009 :  15:27:26  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi yet AGAIN.
gomez, I THINK Breeandra was another ally and sometime working-partner of The Simbul rather than an apprentice - - but I'll ask Ed. This may be another case of "not mentioned because of NDA" (which covers, I believe, almost a dozen more characters who should be on an "Apprentices of The Simbul" list).
love,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 28 Jun 2009 15:31:30
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