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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  06:57:06  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Daviot

As an addendum, I responded with both my simpler hand-edit and a copy of Markustay's map (both are based off the mostly-blank one included the 3e FRCS) on Teneck's original post, but I too would love any other outlying geography comments that Ed can (sneak past the NDA's and) give us.



I just checked out Markustay's maps, as well as the ones you posted Daviot, and I noticed something interesting... The outline for Osse looks like someone's taken a map of Australia and distorted it (all the major elements are there, really)... Are we sure Osse isn't supposed to be Australia?

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  07:22:50  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar

Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Daviot

As an addendum, I responded with both my simpler hand-edit and a copy of Markustay's map (both are based off the mostly-blank one included the 3e FRCS) on Teneck's original post, but I too would love any other outlying geography comments that Ed can (sneak past the NDA's and) give us.



I just checked out Markustay's maps, as well as the ones you posted Daviot, and I noticed something interesting... The outline for Osse looks like someone's taken a map of Australia and distorted it (all the major elements are there, really)... Are we sure Osse isn't supposed to be Australia?

Back in '07, Rich Baker speculated that "Osse is the large 'unknown land' due east of Kara-Tur -- the 'rightmost' large continent" on pg. 231 of the FRCS.

All we know about the land itself has been revealed in Lady of Poison. But aside from a few obvious examples in the book, I wouldn't say that Osse is a direct translation of, or heavily influenced by, real-world Australia. Nor do Gunggari's mannerisms [as well as his dizheri], reflect, exactly, Australian Aboriginal culture. The supposed "ways" of the Osse people could very well be associated with many other examples of real-world Polynesian tribal cultures.

In fact, I always thought the actual name "Osse" was a bit of a joke.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Edited by - The Sage on 18 Jun 2009 07:24:59
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13379 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  07:42:12  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Just to clarify - that map isn't mine in any way, shape or form - its a 'colorized' version of the one in the 3e FRCS.

I'll have to add 'Aurune' to that map. There are actually two Islands there - I'm assuming thats the larger one?

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Markustay, Ed tells me that little outlier of the Thaedanth Range are collectively known as "the Shraaeve" (which means "Skyfangs" in a local dialect).
Thanks for that.

Noted and placed.

EDIT: Newer version of Toril map, with all corrections noted by Ed (except scale - that map is completely wack).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Jun 2009 08:05:00
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  10:00:06  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Re. cemeteries: not a waste of green space when you're looking to stop urban developers from paving every inch of green space, though. Provides air scrubbing from the trees and slows runoff and cools the microclimate and so on. Yet making them multi-use (parkland with burials), YES.

love,
THO



Not a waste of green space when you and a certain special someone wants to have some time of your own (wink-wink, say no more, say no more) and you know that either of your houses will be occupied by that most prevalent of pests - parents.

Kajehase, who has some very good nightly teenage memories of a cemetary.

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Teneck
Learned Scribe

USA
133 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  15:58:01  Show Profile  Visit Teneck's Homepage Send Teneck a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Just to clarify - that map isn't mine in any way, shape or form - its a 'colorized' version of the one in the 3e FRCS.

I'll have to add 'Aurune' to that map. There are actually two Islands there - I'm assuming thats the larger one?

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Markustay, Ed tells me that little outlier of the Thaedanth Range are collectively known as "the Shraaeve" (which means "Skyfangs" in a local dialect).
Thanks for that.

Noted and placed.

EDIT: Newer version of Toril map, with all corrections noted by Ed (except scale - that map is completely wack).



Thank you so much Markustay. Awesome job on the map...and hey don't feel bad about the whole scale thing...inaccurate maps is what a good sea adventure is all about...if the map is wrong enough they could end up in the land o' airborne poo flingers...hee hee hee...and they will...oh yes...they will.
And a thank you to you as well Daviot.

"Go ahead...Sleep in the church...the vampires can't get ya in the church" Any DM...any time.

"He's like a trained ape...without the training"
Simon after Jane trashed the Med lab

Edited by - Teneck on 18 Jun 2009 16:03:36
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  17:10:19  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. Yes, Markustay, your assumption re Aurune being the larger isle (as you placed it on your revised map) is correct. More geographical nomenclature from Ed when he gets time; he's looking with some trepidation at the huge backlog of questions first, and not forgetting he owes some Thunderstone and some Cormyrean villainous families lore, high up in priority.
Sigh. His dread work ne'er done . . .
love,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 18 Jun 2009 17:10:55
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13379 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  18:00:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Well, I figure lore is much harder for Ed to 'churn out' then names - he appears to be some sort of fantasy-naming machine of the nether Realms.

I've only been asking so many because I was hoping they were quick responses rather then anything he'd need to put any work into (knowing full-well how incredibly busy the man is). I thought some of these (like The Shraaeve) he'd know off the top of his head, or have ready access to (having already created his lore and maps YEARS ago). Plus I hoped you might have known a few of these as well, THO.

I'm in no real hurry.

I just have a really bad fantasy-geography addiction...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Jun 2009 03:20:50
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2009 :  19:05:05  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message
Simple...

Ed eats Alphabits for Breakfast, Alphabet soup for Lunch and a hardy dinner each day as his contract with TSR/Wizard asks for. This causes him to randomly speak out words made up of the letters he has eaten.

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2009 :  01:45:18  Show Profile  Visit Broken Helm's Homepage Send Broken Helm a Private Message
I'm getting forgetful. I SWEAR somewhere in this thread, or last year's version of it, Ed gave us the Realms word for "buffet" or "smorgasboard," but I can't find it.
Anyone know it, or remember where he said it, off the top of their working-much-better-than-mine head?
Please?
Hellllp!
Thanks, all!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2009 :  02:39:53  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Broken Helm

I'm getting forgetful. I SWEAR somewhere in this thread, or last year's version of it, Ed gave us the Realms word for "buffet" or "smorgasboard," but I can't find it.
Anyone know it, or remember where he said it, off the top of their working-much-better-than-mine head?
Please?
Hellllp!
Thanks, all!

'Twas from back in July '05:- "A little bit of a “catch table” (the Realms term for buffet or smorgasbord) of replies and comments this time around."

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2009 :  15:46:27  Show Profile  Visit Broken Helm's Homepage Send Broken Helm a Private Message
Thank you VERY much, Sage. That was really bugging me, and I'd been (obviously) searching the wrong years of the thread. Thanks again.
I have a related Realmslore question for Ed and THO: I'm quite familiar with the concept of a shared dish in the middle of the table that a family (plus guests, if any) eat from, either directly or onto their own plates. My question is: how often (and/or where in the Realms) would a group of travelers who take rooms at an inn together, and order an evening meal, be served like this?
Or is is always "a platter/bowl of food served to each diner"? Or some combination, like "bowl of food for everyone, plus a shared loaf of bread in the middle of the table"?
Of course any DM can modify things for a specific inn or occasions, but I'm looking for the general thinking/practice/expectation.
Thanks.
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe

242 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2009 :  14:44:22  Show Profile  Visit Malcolm's Homepage Send Malcolm a Private Message
Dear Ed and THO,
I have a Realms city question. In the larger cities (Waterdeep, Calimport, et al), will there be lots of shops that sell footwear but don't repair or modify footwear -- or is it the general custom to buy footwear from a cobbler? (With perhaps used footwear, or stuff from afar brought by caravan merchants, for sale elsewhere?)
Thanks!
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2009 :  15:01:49  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
Dear Ed,
I recently talked to a lovely lady (no, it wasn't THO; I asked hopefully) who attended a Worldcon (World SF convention) some years ago in Toronto. She said she attended a Terry Pratchett panel you were on (with Terry) and some other panels you were on, and at one of them you and a big New York publisher editor spent about twelve minutes publicly brainstorming an epic fantasy series, off the top of your heads, that had everyone interested.
Can you tell me more about that, please? Did anything ever come of it?
Thank you in advance.
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Sage of Stars
Seeker

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2009 :  16:13:05  Show Profile  Visit Sage of Stars's Homepage Send Sage of Stars a Private Message
Heh. I attended that panel. I believe both the Tor and Del Rey editors started scribbling notes, so that's where I'd look for "swipes" of the ideas to appear. From other names, of course ...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13379 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2009 :  16:46:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Not to go off-topic (we do that a lot here in this thread) once again, but that irks me.

A person holds their job/position supposedly because they are knowledgable in their field, and should be making decisions based on their own accumulated knowledge.

The fact that book pubishers need 'cheat-sheets' is very discouraging, IMHO. If they can't tell what needs to be in a good series of fantasy (or any other genre for that matter) novels, maybe they should find a new line of work.

Sorry for the micro-rant, but I think Ed of all people will understand where I'm coming from. I DETEST people in positions of power who have NO INKLING of how to wield that power.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Jun 2009 20:52:33
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2009 :  17:11:40  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
True, but think of the roleplaying possibilities. It's always fun for player characters to ridicule/best/take down pompous incompetents among the military/Watch, palace officials, tax collectors and border guards, et al.
Just don't try it in "real" life.
love,
THO
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe

USA
492 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2009 :  18:13:02  Show Profile  Visit Shemmy's Homepage  Send Shemmy an AOL message  Send Shemmy an ICQ Message Send Shemmy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Ed just replied to me re. that last question, from Malcolm:

Yes, I have read and very much enjoyed THE GREAT BEYOND. Todd Stewart did a great job, and produced what a completist might call "a great beginning" because it's not long enough. Yet you know and I know that the writer/designer doesn't get to choose the length/wordcount of a book; he could just go into more depth here and there if he wanted to, because the pages to do that just aren't there.
VERY little tinkering is necessary to use THE GREAT BEYOND in the Realms (depending on how much you use or apply the REALMSPACE sourcebook in your campaign).

...

Great work, Shemmy! Thank you!


*GRIN*

I am seriously, seriously honored and flattered to hear that from Ed. Wow. :D I'm going to be grinning all week.

As for the book's length, trust me, I could have written it four times its published length if I'd had the word-limit to do so. As it stands, around 18k words were chopped out to fit under that limit, though some of it has worked its way into other material by Paizo, and may very well appear in later stuff as well.

Ed just complimented something I wrote. *glee*

Todd

Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2009 :  18:33:34  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Heh. He's done more than that; he's going to buying extra copies (beyond the one he ordered already for himself, because he didn't want to wait) at GenCon, to give out to some novice gamers who are starting campaigns, that he's "behind-the-scenes coaching." As in, they drop by the library and chat with Ed about possible subplots and "what to do nows," over coffee. Ed thinks THE GREAT BEYOND is one great way to handle the planes (the other is to minimize the role of all planes except alternate Prime Materials, do the "many gates controlled by shadowy power groups" thing, and keep things mucho mysterious).
So: good on ya, Shemmy! Write some sequels, if Paizo will let you!
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2009 :  02:10:09  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Heh. Ed wants me NOT to leave any impression that he can "chat with DMs" during his work shifts. He has coffee with them after he's done work; while he's at the library, he's running the Circulation desk, which is like being the only cashier in a busy supermarket, so PLEASE don't "drop by" while he's working.
Sorry, all!
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13379 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2009 :  17:04:44  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
I'm back in Amn today, enjoying a personal tour by Volo...

I came across "The Battlescarred Bard" on the map in VGtBG2, but I can't seem to locate any reference to it. The icon indicates it is a ruin... but those map symbols have been known to mislead me before.

Anyone know anything about this locale, and/or where I can find out more about it?

I only found it whilst trying to place Daufin, which I found through the L-List, which I found through LoD, etc, etc...

Every stone o'er-turned leads to yet more mysteries in the Realms...

EDIT: ACK! Nevermind... it had it's own entry...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 21 Jun 2009 17:30:49
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2009 :  20:17:34  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Another Finals question!
Approaching my final in History (it's tomorrow morning). How prevalent is education of History in the Realms? Does it exist (among the common folk, not the scholars)? Or is it simply in the form of 'A long time ago...' 'you know, the great king...' 'my father once told me...'? Also, does it exist in a wider sense? Do people (who aren't scholars) in Cormyr know something of the history of Myth Drannor, Silverymoon, or Waterdeep, for example?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2009 :  23:06:55  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Menelvagor, good luck with your final!
As for history in the Realms, the common folk know a LOT about it, but each individual will have some gaps in what they do know, and know less and less about current, up-to-date everyday events in far-distant lands.
Here's why, straight from Ed's notes:


Social life in the Heartlands of the Realms is quite similar to rural England pre-Industrial Revolution; most folk never travel far from where they live, but DO go down to the local tavern (like an English pub) of evenings. Where tales are told and re-told, growing and getting distorted in the telling as tales do everywhere (including at home, within families).
However, travelling bards and minstrels, not to mention peddlers and caravan merchants, stop at local inns as they travel, and drop by local taverns, trading tales for drinks and/or food bought for them. Peddlers and merchants tend to carry rumors and current news, and minstrels and bards tend to bring songs and jokes and history (particularly if you don't know many good jokes or your singing voice is temporarily damaged by a cold, you will resort to historical tales.
Yes, bards and minstrels distort tales in the telling, just as everyone else does, but the most senior bards try to make sure their datings and namings of kings and salient facts of "big events" match what other bards are saying; no one wants to be dismissed as a "false bard" or something of the sort. Sages and priests are the counterpoints to bards, but the common folk know that doctrine and faith colour everything a priest says, and as a result take what priests say with (our saying, not a Realms saying) a pinch of salt.
Between what sages, priests, and various bards say, commoners in a particular place can figure out for themselves quite well "the general shape of past events." A commoner might not get dates right, or try to keep them as specific as a Court scribe, but locals will agree that such-and-such an event happened "before the mill burned" or "Draesrae had triplets born all with white hair" or "lightning struck the shrine of Helm" (which serves their purposes). Common folk are very good at seeing causes and effects and consequences (at least in hindsight), and so can understand why things happened the way they did in many cases more clearly than modern real-world historians who chase pet theories or modern interpretations of other cultures long ago.


So saith Ed. Writing with his usual wise reason, some thirty years ago.
love,
THO
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2387 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2009 :  23:25:56  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message
Hello again! I've been doing some research on Realms gnomes, partly because I'm currently playing a rather, ah, intense member of the race here at the Keep, and I'm finding that the usual distressing lack of information about the Forgotten Folk has extended to the Ask Ed threads. So my question is more along the lines of a plea: tell us something of the gnomes, please!

What, exactly, I leave entirely up to Ed. A gnomish kingdom or clan home, a battle, local lore they tell around mugs at their taverns (or jokes they tell at the big folks' expense), some famous gnomes active in the 1360's DR, whatever comes to mind. The gnomes have been sadly neglected, and I'd like to use this thread to prod a bit more info about them out into the open, if I might. Thanks!

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2009 :  02:15:02  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

Hello again! I've been doing some research on Realms gnomes, partly because I'm currently playing a rather, ah, intense member of the race here at the Keep, and I'm finding that the usual distressing lack of information about the Forgotten Folk has extended to the Ask Ed threads. So my question is more along the lines of a plea: tell us something of the gnomes, please!

What, exactly, I leave entirely up to Ed. A gnomish kingdom or clan home, a battle, local lore they tell around mugs at their taverns (or jokes they tell at the big folks' expense), some famous gnomes active in the 1360's DR, whatever comes to mind. The gnomes have been sadly neglected, and I'd like to use this thread to prod a bit more info about them out into the open, if I might. Thanks!
Have you read the "Hin Nobody Knows" article in DRAGON #269? It provides more of a handle on what Realms gnomes are like.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 22 Jun 2009 02:15:41
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2387 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2009 :  03:15:41  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message
Yes. I want more! Muahahahaha!

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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