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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2009 :  15:32:20  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Well, I don't know about you, but if a Dryad had never done anyhting for you (or should I say, to you) your charm must be greatly reduced... I know I had great fun with a few of them...

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29727 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2009 :  16:04:50  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
And perhaps we can get back to asking Ed questions...

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2009 :  16:37:58  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

That did a Dryad ever do for you, eh?
I'm sure both Florin and Torm have their own stories to tell.

Maybe Ed [or the Lady Hooded One] could elaborate?

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sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1964 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  14:12:38  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
so I was curious about something, and was hoping ED could tell me.
why does Wuakeen have numchuks as her favored weapon??

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29727 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  16:11:13  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

so I was curious about something, and was hoping ED could tell me.
why does Wuakeen have numchuks as her favored weapon??



Because rubber chickens just aren't that effective.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

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31687 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  17:02:36  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

so I was curious about something, and was hoping ED could tell me.
why does Wuakeen have numchuks as her favored weapon??

Hmmm. I think it's important to note that some of the 3e favoured weapons for the deities were chosen/changed to show off the 3e weapon roster. And, thus, make little actual sense.

Maybe Ed will have more.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2009 :  20:43:14  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. Sage, you're quite right about some of the favored weapons making little sense. Fortunately, Ed thought so too, and back at the time of the 3e launch, came up with an explanation. Here are his relevant notes:

Waukeen is first and foremost the god of merchants, and the priests of Waukeen have for years carried "tally-sticks" for keeping count of goods, payment amounts, and debts, particularly when called upon to settle disputes between merchants. At first these were individual batons, often drilled with rows of holes for counting-pegs to be moved along (like a real-world cribbage board), but over time amounts customarily grew too large for single-stick counts. So priests took to carrying two separate pairs of sticks, each pair being joined together at the ends by a length of chain, so that one stick could be crossed over the fellow it was chained to in various arrays and patterns to denote different numbers, and one pair of sticks had gold painted ends, while the other was silver-ended. This allowed priests to readily keep side-by-side counts, or use on pair for "ones" and the other for "tens" or "scores" or "full wagons" or whatever. Their use as weapons developed in practical "desperation" incidents after that, but soon became a matter of training within the clergy.

There. A Realmsian explanation. Ed and I would both have preferred sharpened-edge coin shuriken, but still . . .
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 16 May 2009 20:49:17
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2384 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2009 :  00:32:24  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message
That's actually kind of neat. I don't usually like retroactive lore for dumb WotC ideas, but that one works. Nice job, Ed!

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2009 :  01:39:29  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
There. A Realmsian explanation. Ed and I would both have preferred sharpened-edge coin shuriken, but still . . .



But wouldn't that just be throwing money away?

Tymora got the coin shuriken. I really wish they'd stuck to Longsword as it was in 2nd Edition (what with her tear becoming a blade and all).

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2009 :  01:41:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Ed's the master of making Lemonade from Lemons.

Of course, killing someone with a Silver piece would have been very cool as well.

Not to mention effective against Lycanthropes...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 May 2009 01:42:59
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe

USA
830 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  00:37:18  Show Profile Send Dark Wizard a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Dark Wizard,
Embersea is the fantasy setting Ed is (very slowly) at work on, for Studio 2 Publishing. When it will see print, I'm not sure; Ed has been very busy for a long time, and only his fiction writing really brings in enough money for him to live on.
love,
THO



Thank you Lady THO. I look forward to another well-composed setting from Ed. Any hints as to what it's like, or is it still too early or NDA-locked to say?

By the way, did you catch my question regarding settlement/city naming schema for the Chondath and Chessenta regions?

My apologies if my wording made it difficult to pick out from the rest of my post. I really should go over my posts before hitting reply. Thanks again.

I really do love Ed's answer to the question on Waukeen's favored weapon, and his answers to those types of questions in general. He has a way of tying the lore in culturally and functionally that many others often don't think to.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  01:04:39  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Dark Wizard, your Chondath/Chessenta question has gone off to Ed; I don't recall anything useful in trying to answer it in the lore-notes he's given me over the years, or in the notes I made during play. So it'll have to wait for his return, which will hopefully be by end of next week.
Yes, Ed tries to envisage the Realms as a real place, and work out details and lore explanations that make it seem more real AND create new roleplaying opportunities. I think he's become pretty good at it over the last forty-some years.
As for Embersea, I know very little about it, because Ed (following professional protocol) has said very little. I once overheard him mention something about "lots of small islands to adventure on, clustered around large ones," that MIGHT have been Embersea, or might not. That was years back, before he offered the setting to Studio 2, which is when his silence descended. I suspect Embersea was one of the many projects affected when Ed's father died and Ed missed a crop of deadlines, with everything snowballing and getting delayed. However, it's NOT a dead setting, by any means.
love,
THO
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1071 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  09:24:12  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message
Ed, I was wondering if you have ever written characters with mental disorders (NOT insanity) in the realms? Like Autism or Asperger's syndrome for example. I'm asking because I've got Asperger's myself.

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1964 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  09:53:40  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all. Sage, you're quite right about some of the favored weapons making little sense. Fortunately, Ed thought so too, and back at the time of the 3e launch, came up with an explanation. Here are his relevant notes:

Waukeen is first and foremost the god of merchants, and the priests of Waukeen have for years carried "tally-sticks" for keeping count of goods, payment amounts, and debts, particularly when called upon to settle disputes between merchants. At first these were individual batons, often drilled with rows of holes for counting-pegs to be moved along (like a real-world cribbage board), but over time amounts customarily grew too large for single-stick counts. So priests took to carrying two separate pairs of sticks, each pair being joined together at the ends by a length of chain, so that one stick could be crossed over the fellow it was chained to in various arrays and patterns to denote different numbers, and one pair of sticks had gold painted ends, while the other was silver-ended. This allowed priests to readily keep side-by-side counts, or use on pair for "ones" and the other for "tens" or "scores" or "full wagons" or whatever. Their use as weapons developed in practical "desperation" incidents after that, but soon became a matter of training within the clergy.

There. A Realmsian explanation. Ed and I would both have preferred sharpened-edge coin shuriken, but still . . .
love to all,
THO




M'lady Hooded one.

do tell ED thanks for me, and also tell him, that the coin edged shuriken would have been better, as it seams the majority of them in 3.x had numchuku has a favored weapon or atleast one to many of them had that and with no monk levels it makes no since whatso ever.


heavy mace= Terminal Migraine
numchuku= less than so

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  10:27:38  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by khorne

Ed, I was wondering if you have ever written characters with mental disorders (NOT insanity) in the realms? Like Autism or Asperger's syndrome for example. I'm asking because I've got Asperger's myself.


If you dont mind me asking, what is Asperger's. I have heard of it before. Good question too.

Brimstone

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
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Aysen
Learned Scribe

115 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  11:12:56  Show Profile  Visit Aysen's Homepage Send Aysen a Private Message
Hello again Ed, LHO, and fellow scribes,

I've been re-reading the the "Elminster" Quintet of books, and I've a few more lore questions that I hope don't infringe on any NDAs. I vaguely remember an earlier question to Ed regarding Moonshorn Tower from "The Temptation of Elminster", but these current ones come from some of the other novels.

From "Elminster in Myth Drannor": Ed or LHO, do your notes have anything further on the bloodlines of the Srinshee (the Estelda line) or Mythanthor (the Iydril line)? Are there any surviving relatives or offshoots, or were they each the last to carry those names?

From "Elminster in Hell": Similar to Moonshorn Tower, I'm curious about Spelldown Hall, the mageduel arena revealed in a brief wisp of El's memory. Where was it located, and when was it built? Does any part or legacy of it persist into 3rd Ed.?

Thank you profusely in advance!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  15:05:24  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, fellow scribes.
Aysen, I can START to answer your just-posted questions (Ed will of course handle them "properly," in due course), by drawing on Ed's notes. Here's Ed:

The Srinshee has at least three living (younger) blood relatives, at least two of whom are completely unaware of their heritage.


I suspect (from hints during play) that the same applies for Mythanthor, but I could quite well be mistaken about this.
Ed's off to the hospital tomorrow, and doing all the "clear liquids only, no solid foods" dance right now . . .
love to all,
THO

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  15:45:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
My prayers go out with Ed.

And if he doesn't comply with the after-surgery bedrest, sit on him THO.*

We need Ed hale and whole.



*Which can be quite pleasant, if done correctly.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 May 2009 15:46:09
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3068 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  16:13:08  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
Likewise on the 'Get Well Soon'!

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  17:10:50  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Having been taught to learn and respect our elders and sages, I must agree with Markus, and send my own wishes for a quick recovery.

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29727 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  20:14:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe

It just noticed that this will be my five hundredth post and wanted it to be in this topic.

And now I have to come up with a question.

Okay, how about this. Have there been any/many famous sets of identical twins in the Realms? I know that the Thunder Blessing brought about increased twin births among the dwarves--but are twins counted rare or (relatively) common among elves and halflings? Are twins thought to be good or bad luck in any cultures?

Cheers,

Christopher





Ed has shared a bit of evil twin lore with me, and it included some identical twins... If it's okay with him, I'll repost it here.

It's not twins in general, though -- I was specifically looking at the evil twin trope.

And there is one set of identical twins in published Realmslore that comes readily to mind... Voaraghamanthar "the Black Death" and his brother Waervaerendor "the Rapacious Raider", the twin black dragons in the Mere of Dead Men. They're from the old Wyrms of the North series, and were first seen in Dragon 258. The article is also online, here.



Okay, I just remembered this post, and asked Ed if I could share the twin lore I got from him... It's not a direct answer to this question; as mentioned already, I was specifically looking for lore about evil twins.

First, about the whole evil twin trope that we see in our own entertainment:

quote:
The 'evil twin' trope pops up in the Realms mainly in ballads and plays, in two ways: substitution of nobles' dupe for real prince or princess, and long-lost, separated-at-birth-or-childhood sibling reappears to bedevil grown-to-adult 'good twin' (often when parents die; evildoer steps onto the scene to try to seize or claim inheritance).
The concept is well-known to everyone, but not used much by "modern in the Realms" composers and performers in new tales or performances, for that reason.[Somewhat akin to everyone being familiar with "Waltzing Matilda," so very few people are going to embark on a song with similar lyrics or subject matter.]
And it does continue to happen, "for real," in the Realms, due to nobles having bastard children, factional fights within noble or wealthy families, and so on.


Later, I asked about real evil twins in the Realms. And here is what he shared:

quote:
As far as ‘real’ evil twins in the Realms go, the best-known would probably be Harthus Draer, the evil (unrelated by blood, but almost a perfect likeness) double of Ammanthrus Boldoum, a VERY wealthy merchant of Athkatla who became known for his mercantile successes and stupendous wealth, and then for his philanthropy.
Working with a small cabal of Boldoum’s trade rivals, Draer replaced the real Boldoum in 1344 DR, and in the guise of the philanthropist visited many Amnians and Tethyrians, learning much of craft innovations and trade deals that he passed on to the ruthless cabal.
The real Boldoum was kept in hiding in the Amnian mountains and cruelly experimented on, alongside kidnapped persons of the same general build, looks, and hair color; without involving a wizard until it became necessary to replace Draer (either because of treachery or because he’d met his death or maiming through misadventure) and mind-control the replacement, Boldoum’s trade rivals wanted to create several “replacement Bouldoums.”
In late 1347 DR, a bandit raid on that mountain stronghold resulted in the ruination of all the likeness-altering surgeries and “experiments,” and in Boldoum and one of his ‘almost-doubles’ escaping.
The secret was out, but Draer swiftly hired all the mercenaries he could and tried to eliminate both the real Boldoum and the trade-rivals who’d backed him, so he could be left as the only Boldoum standing, and deny the heritage of all the others (who’d be then too dead to promote themselves).
This private war ended up almost causing the death of one of the Council of Six, and for an entire summer (of 1348 DR) was the talk of Amn, Tethyr, and traveling merchants up and down the Sword Coast, with many individuals rumored to be part of this plot or that, and no one really fully understanding the truth. As a result, Draer and Boldoum are famous, or infamous; the war ended with the mysterious backers all slaughtered by the Council, Draer fled far into the Turmish backlands as a hunted man, and Boldoum a changed, paranoid recluse thought to be an impostor by about a third of Amnians.

The second-best-known set of evil twins are a pair of elegant, sophisticated, thoroughly amoral sisters who look identical (milk-white skin, tall and sleek, raven-black hair down to their behinds), and who are ruthless in their pursuit of wealth and power. Their names are Serelke (“SAIR-elk”) and Ryngoleira (“RINN-go-leera”) Tabarcrast, and they are minor nobility in Chessenta who fully intend to end up ruling Chessentan cities some day.
They work both independently and (at times) together, as friendly rivals, and both are equally evil, scheming, brilliant actresses. They often exploit confusion among others (such as outlander merchants, arms-dealers especially) who mistake one of them for the other. They are expert poisoners, have amassed a lot of largely-hidden, cached wealth and steadily growing personal collections of magic items they use to defeat foes in private, and they are superb in the arts of lovemaking; their common approach to advancement thus far has been to “sleep their way to the top” in Chessenta, poisoning or arranging ‘accidental’ deaths for those who spurn them or grow tired of them or defy their manipulations.
The “Tabarcrast Shes” have become legendary for their bored, jaded mannerisms and fell beauty, and the whiff of more rumored than properly understood corruption that clings to them; legends spread by talkative caravan merchants throughout the Heartlands.
In 1377 DR, they are in their late twenties, and have been at their climbs upward since their mid-teens.

Among fictitious evil twins, the most famous would probably be Laevur, the villainous long-lost brother (and double) of the hero Raulaerik, who kills and impersonates his older brother in the play THE BRIGHT BLADE AND ITS SHADOW (written by an anonymous playwright, and first performed in Neverwinter in 1339 DR; an instant hit, it was put on by various troupes up and down the Sword Coast, becoming an always-running standard in Waterdeep about the same time it reached Suzail and Westgate, in 1347 DR; it’s very well-known now and its popularity has waned somewhat, but its utility to comment on local government and local liked and disliked persons cause it to be remounted often). In the play, Laevur gets all he wants (rulership, specific women in his bed, and riches), but finds them hollow - - and in the end, deadly, as he’s slain by an old foe of Raulaerik who herself impersonates one of Laevur’s bedmates.

The second most famous would be from an old ballad, THE GHOST DANCERS, wherein a good man, Althus, ends up haunted by ghosts who intend to frighten him to death because he happens to have built his farmhouse atop the buried treasure they guard - - but Althus is murdered by his unscrupulous identical twin brother Ulgram (because Ulgram has heard tales of the treasure). Ulgram proves impossible for the ghosts (who have no idea Althus has been replaced) to scare, but at the end of the ballad they manage to kill him by surrendering the treasure to him and then locking him alive, to suffocate, in the largest treasure chest.
This ballad dates from 1167 DR or so, and if there was ever any real-life truth inspiring it, it’s been forgotten. It was formerly far more famous than the play I mentioned first, but these days its melody and refrain (“The ghosts they danced, cold white flames under the moon/The ghosts they pranced; we’ll join them soon”) are better remembered than all the stanzas (and thus, the entire story).



From the keyboard of Ed himself.

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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
879 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  20:22:53  Show Profile  Visit Christopher_Rowe's Homepage Send Christopher_Rowe a Private Message
Get well, soon Ed!

And thanks Wooly!

My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  23:17:15  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
Yes, get well soon Ed.

Brimstone

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Aysen
Learned Scribe

115 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2009 :  23:51:53  Show Profile  Visit Aysen's Homepage Send Aysen a Private Message
Thank you LHO for a swift reply on the bloodlines!

My thoughts and prayers go with Ed on a swift recovery as well.


quote:

If you dont mind me asking, what is Asperger's. I have heard of it before. Good question too.

Brimstone



Although khorne can give his own unique response to your question, here's a link to a general description of Asperger Syndrome for Brimstone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2009 :  00:26:16  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Okay, I just remembered this post, and asked Ed if I could share the twin lore I got from him... It's not a direct answer to this question; as mentioned already, I was specifically looking for lore about evil twins.
Ah, good. I'll add this to the "So Saith Ed" compilation for '09.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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