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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2009 :  13:40:09  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor

Laeral's twins?


Since they are male and female, they would be fraternal instead of identical twins.

Heh... Twins. Dark Wizard got us off the topic of cloning, then Christopher put us right back in the middle of it.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2009 :  13:41:02  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Oh, sorry, missed the identical part.

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2009 :  14:20:55  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor

Laeral's twins?


Since they are male and female, they would be fraternal instead of identical twins.
Indeed -- many of the Sage Schend's elaborations on Khelben & Laeral's twins indicate that they are fraternal.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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edappel
Learned Scribe

Brazil
211 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2009 :  14:42:11  Show Profile  Click to see edappel's MSN Messenger address Send edappel a Private Message
Hey Sage... Could you post somewhere your compilation "So saith Ed?"

--- Ed Appel

*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2009 :  14:55:19  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Actually, if you check out the "So Saith Ed" link in my signature, you'll see that all the previous incarnations of the "Questions for Ed Greenwood" scroll have been dutifully compiled here at Candlekeep, originally by Kuje, and now, for the last few years, by myself.

They're available for download in both PDF and HTML versions.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2009 :  19:09:29  Show Profile  Visit Knight of the Gate's Homepage  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message
A pair of the Moonflower children were twin sons, one being killed (IIRC) on the Moonsheas by the Ityak Ortheel; Also, aren't there 2 sets of twins amongst Alustriel's brood of half-elven sons?

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco

Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 14 Apr 2009 19:10:03
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  00:21:15  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate

A pair of the Moonflower children were twin sons, one being killed (IIRC) on the Moonsheas by the Ityak Ortheel; Also, aren't there 2 sets of twins amongst Alustriel's brood of half-elven sons?



I do seem to remember having read something about that myself, but danged if I can remember where.

Also, could we please say "Alustriel's children" or "Alustriel's brood of half-elven children"? She does have daughters, too, you know. (Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine. Does anyone honestly believe she'd have ~12 sons without having a single daughter? (Yes, I know, maybe Mystra wanted her to only have sons, but the point remains that's not actually the case as has been stated by Ed in his threads.))

I'd dearly love to know more about her daughters, but I'm sensing NDAs on them are still in force.

(I once started to write a short story starring three daughters of Alustriel (making things up, since they're pretty much tabula rasa - no canon information to get in the way of my own thoughts), but I never got very far with it (I felt the plot was too thin, if I remember rightly, and I was trying to figure out whether to add flour or corn starch to thicken it up! ). I never did get back to it.)

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  00:22:11  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate

Also, aren't there 2 sets of twins amongst Alustriel's brood of half-elven sons?

Yes. Hardorbryn Tanagathor and Alondel Tanagathor. And Elinthalar Tanagathor and Andelver Tressymfriend. There's also a set of triplets as well, Lilinthar Moonweather, Naerond Aerasume, and Tarthilmor Aerasume.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe

147 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  02:38:21  Show Profile  Visit GoCeraf's Homepage Send GoCeraf a Private Message
THO,

Beginning within the next week, I'm going to be off-site for an indefinite period of time. The only certainty is that it's gonna be a pretty long period, so any of my outstanding queries that Mr. Greenwood still has can probably go on a long-term hiatus. I'll be back when I'm back.

Thanks, and all the best,
Wolfram

Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  03:11:41  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Thanks for letting us, Wolfram. Ed will be back just as soon as he can. As it happens, I do have something to add to the current twins discussion: the names of two of Alustriel's daughters (no, they're not twins, and I don't even know who the father[s] were; I SUSPECT they had different fathers, but it's just a suspicion, based on the widely separated by time places they were noted down.
Alustriel has at least seven daughters I know of (or at least know of evidence for; I don't mean to imply I can name or properly 'place' seven), and the two I have names for are:

Lorondra "Lorimel" Maerel (what last name she uses, I don't know; I do know that she's even taller than her mother, is of slender build, and has been seen wearing a loooong sword scabbarded down her back on a baldric).

Sarithrele Glaendra (again, surname unknown; supposedly stunningly beautiful but very quiet, "remote" or "dreamy" in manner, often seems to drift by people without seeming to realize their presence)


(I don't even know if they're human, half-elven, or half-something else!)
Yes, this comes from Ed's campaign play support notes, snooped into by me, Lorimel's description coming from something that would have been revealed by a NPC if we'd asked him the right (or wrong, depending on your point of view) thing.

This probably just whets your curiosity, Zandilar, but at least it's SOMETHING to start with. Will pester Ed re. identical twins . . .
love to all,
THO
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Aysen
Learned Scribe

115 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  06:29:47  Show Profile  Visit Aysen's Homepage Send Aysen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe

It just noticed that this will be my five hundredth post and wanted it to be in this topic.

And now I have to come up with a question.

Okay, how about this. Have there been any/many famous sets of identical twins in the Realms? I know that the Thunder Blessing brought about increased twin births among the dwarves--but are twins counted rare or (relatively) common among elves and halflings? Are twins thought to be good or bad luck in any cultures?

Cheers,

Christopher





Ed has shared a bit of evil twin lore with me, and it included some identical twins... If it's okay with him, I'll repost it here.

It's not twins in general, though -- I was specifically looking at the evil twin trope.

And there is one set of identical twins in published Realmslore that comes readily to mind... Voaraghamanthar "the Black Death" and his brother Waervaerendor "the Rapacious Raider", the twin black dragons in the Mere of Dead Men. They're from the old Wyrms of the North series, and were first seen in Dragon 258. The article is also online, here.



Hmm, my memory is a bit foggy, but I do recall some twins among the goodly races:

Brookwine and Winebrook - twin elven mages from the Pool of Twilight novel

Queen Amlaruil's twin sons - lost after Synnoria was attacked (?)

Tasster and Teszter - dwarven sons, of the Iron House of Tethyamar (Lost Empires of Faerun)

Samular Caradoon and Renwick Caradoon - I was a bit surprised at this revelation from Elaine Cunningham's "Knights of Samular" in Best of the Realms III. Also, the story involves a demon that always breeds demonic twins and involves a bit of discussion into the nature of the twin relationship.

Also, I seem to remember there being a WOTC NPC article on twin fiendish or tiefling assassins a few years back in the 3.0 days. I've looked, but can't find it; mayhap another scribe has the link saved?
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Aysen
Learned Scribe

115 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  06:37:48  Show Profile  Visit Aysen's Homepage Send Aysen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate

A pair of the Moonflower children were twin sons, one being killed (IIRC) on the Moonsheas by the Ityak Ortheel; Also, aren't there 2 sets of twins amongst Alustriel's brood of half-elven sons?



Whoops, guess I've got a redundant entry
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Barshevy
Learned Scribe

275 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  10:19:28  Show Profile  Visit Barshevy's Homepage Send Barshevy a Private Message
When do taverns generally close for the night, in the cities or smaller towns? Thank you!


Edited by - Barshevy on 15 Apr 2009 10:19:59
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe

242 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  15:28:37  Show Profile  Visit Malcolm's Homepage Send Malcolm a Private Message
Dearest Lady THO,
Please don't take this question the wrong way. I don't mean it as any sort of attack, okay?
It just intrigues me.
By "snooping" into Ed's notes, aren't you damaging your own enjoyment of playing in the campaign? Sorta like peeking behind the curtain and seeing "The Great and Terrible Oz" pulling the levers and shouting into the microphone?
?
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  16:00:15  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
That's quite all right. You can ask me ANYTHING; depending on what it is, I may not answer, but I won't feel attacked. (Avoiding the obvious innuendos for a moment...)
Your point is a good one; "breaking the fourth wall" is always fraught with the dangers of ruining enjoyment of play.
However, it doesn't in this case, thanks to something I should have explained: Ed has two categories of notes.
First, the private DM stuff (not really a lot; it's mostly in his head) that WOULD ruin play for me, if I poked through it. (Add to this: the stuff he's contractually obligated to keep secret, when writing for Wizards.) I don't snoop into these. as a point of honour and so as not to ruin things for anyone (harms roleplaying, harms trust among friends, ruins my play enjoyment and probably everyone else's, and so on).
Second, the "sorta open" notes he lets us "find" and peruse. This second sort has existed from the beginning of play in the Realms, as far as I know (certainly for as long as I've known Ed), and Ed lets players occasionally run their eyeballs over whatever they want to look at, AS A WAY OF SIMULATING THE GENERAL KNOWLEDGE (OR SUPPOSITIONS, GAINED THROUGH GOSSIP) OUR PLAYER CHARACTERS WOULD HAVE, FROM LIVING IN THE REALMS.
That's something hard to do, in most play situations, and I think Ed's come up with as good a way as any to address it (being as players asking out-of-character question after question during play sessions isn't ideal).
And I don't mind you asking, Malcolm. Really.
(Candlekeep should be a place where scribes can talk openly and freely, as much as possible.)
love,
THO

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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  16:41:42  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
Besides, what fun is having secret notes if you don't have any secret notes that people can snoop in?
That is what makes the secret notes more... ehr... secretish!

Gomez,
who has most secret notes in his head, except campaign plotline overviews that I have to share with people. And even those generally turn out to contain only half of what I have planned.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2009 :  18:12:42  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Barshevy

When do taverns generally close for the night, in the cities or smaller towns? Thank you!





I'd add a bit to this... do cities ever keep their gates open during night, such as during festivals? Do any cities/towns seeing "busy" traffic (lots of caravans) keep their gates open (on a regular basis) at night?

Also, how common is the habit of using church/temple/shrine bells to measure time in the Realms, i.e. is it only used in "bigger" cities? What about towns/cities which do not have shrines or temples with bells/belltowers... would there be a separate belltower, then? Or is the "norm" that most (if not all) bigger shrines or temples have bells for this purpose?

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2009 :  01:23:30  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
<snip!>
This probably just whets your curiosity, Zandilar, but at least it's SOMETHING to start with. Will pester Ed re. identical twins . . .
love to all,
THO



*squees and bounces happily* Oooh thank you for that. At last I have a couple of names! And an approximate number!! *HUGS THO giddily*

Lorimel and Sarithrele sound very interesting, more so than Alustriel's boys are to me (for some reason, I get this image in my head of twelve strapping young half-elven men, all with silver hair, the same uniformly handsome features, and who all speak with the same voice... I know it's silly of me, because it's fairly clear that they aren't like that (and are mostly of differing ages too!), but darn it that thought makes me giggle! ). The sword Lorimel carries seems significant - she's slender and she's got a great big sword... that screams magical sword to me (either that, or she takes after her Aunt Storm. Or maybe both!)

I imagine that many of Alustriel's children have gone on to become fathers and mothers themselves before the end of 3.5e, and I'm sure that plenty of her descendants are floating around in 4th Edition Realms. I wonder if we'll see them at all? *crosses fingers and hopes that we do*

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2009 :  15:23:45  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Oooooh... I just read something I just have to ask Ed about...
In Spellbound (Campaign Guide), p. 51. by Anthony Pryor, it is rumoured that Alasrra had written a document that named her successor and that the document is in the hands of the Harpers, believed to be with either Elminster or Khelben.
So... any truth to the rumour? If so, who has the will? If Khelben, where/with whom is it now? If El, does he still have it? If not, did Alassra make a new one and give it to someone? And most important, who does name as her succesor?
EDIT: Also re-reading Lands of Intrigue. If I have some Cormyr lore I want to know about which appears there, should I ask Ed or Steven?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."

Edited by - Menelvagor on 16 Apr 2009 20:32:49
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13403 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2009 :  03:55:34  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
If the Cormyr lore concerns the 'history' between Cormyr and Calimshan (Valashar, actually), Steven Schend would probably be a better source, considering most of that is 'his', AFAIK.

If the lore concerns Cormyr directly, and any developments that came out of that little war (such as attitudes, etc...), then Ed would be the better source (once again, AFAIK).

I happen to be a big fan of that lore - Cormyr seems to have a long history of 'spanking' monolithic political entities who thought they were nigh-unstoppable.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Apr 2009 04:01:06
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2009 :  07:27:02  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Well, the question was brought because of the war between Valashar and Cormyr. But I wanted more info on Ilbratha, Mistress of Battles, the short sword with a bloodstone.

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2009 :  14:45:50  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hmmm. I'm thinking Ilbratha is still heavily NDA'd, because of some fiction plans not known to me (and not by Ed).
love,
THO
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2009 :  15:28:16  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Darn it. Would the planner of these plans be able and willing to answer me, though?
EDIT: Is anything known about whether Ed has any upcoming novels? And if so, would anything be known (or could be made known) about the novels?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."

Edited by - Menelvagor on 17 Apr 2009 15:34:34
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2009 :  20:00:29  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Well, typically Wizards and Ed's agent (The Zack Company, Inc.) make a joint announcement/press release when Ed signs a contract (typically a multi-book contract). Locus is the best place to look for announcements about Ed's novels with other publishers (such as Tor and Solaris), because Quill & Quire and Publisher's Lunch both tend to ignore sf and fantasy books (let alone game-related books, which they seem to regard as hardly publishing at all). I, of course, can't legally or morally tell you anything about forthcoming books (when I know things). However, I CAN confirm that I know of the existence of three forthcoming anthologies that Ed has contributed tales to, and one forthcoming Ed novel, for which Ed's work is done, accepted, and will appear. Not to mention at least one game thing.
However, pressing me for more is just going to get you silence, for now. Rest assured that the moment I can squawk, I will!
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2009 :  22:24:50  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Menelvagor, from Ed's notes:
Yes, the rumour about The Simbul's document is true. Neither Khelben nor Elminster has had it for some time; it is in the keeping of the Harpers (precise keeper and whereabouts: secret), and it does name HER choice of her successor.
The folk of Aglarond, or other powers active in the Realms, may well have other plans, of course.
And if you think asking me or Ed is going to get you a direct answer as to who is named in that document to be The Simbul's choice regarding the next ruler of Aglarond, too bad. THE SIMBUL has other plans.
love,
THO
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