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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31447 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2009 :  23:49:50  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

quote:
Originally posted by freyar

quote:
Publicly and officially, the Crown ignored the work, except to ban its possession by any Purple and Blue Dragon...


My bold there. I don't know why I missed this before, but, Lady THO and Ed, who are the Blue Dragons of Cormyr? Or anybody else, where should I go read about them if I should have heard of them before? Many thanks in advance.



I believe the are mentioned in the 4th FRCG, at least. They are the navy to the Purple Dragon's Army.

From Garen Thal:- "The Blue Dragons are members of Cormyr's Imperial Navy (a rather swollen name for such a small force)--Purple Dragons who staff the Forest Kingdom's ships of war and certain port/harbor locations. They are known as Blue Dragons both in recognition of their distinctive garb (the aforementioned blue sashes, bracers, and shoulder flash), and their specific role within the armed forces of Cormyr."

From myself:- There's also a few tidbits about the Blue Dragons in the Sea of Fallen Stars tome. And you might want to check some of Ed's previous replies, because he's talked briefly about the Blue Dragons before.

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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2009 :  11:02:36  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Thanks for the answers to the Silverfall questions. Therefore, I continue:
What exactly happened to Laeral in the spell-trap Halaster left? I assume her body was destroyed. But how did she survive? Is it a Chosen thing? And why is it that Khelben needs to start working qucikly on healing her? Will she 'drift away' without a body?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
879 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2009 :  13:58:12  Show Profile  Visit Christopher_Rowe's Homepage Send Christopher_Rowe a Private Message
Regarding the Blue Dragons, there's also a fair amount about them in Brian R. James' "Backdrop: Cormyr" article at p. 20 in Dragon #365. There's a bit of historical information about how their numbers came to expand at the turn of the fifteenth century, descriptions of the numbers and naming conventions (with examples) of their ships, explanation of ranks, identification of the titular commander and a very broad sketch of their general activities and patrol routes.

My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering.
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freyar
Learned Scribe

Canada
220 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2009 :  16:41:01  Show Profile  Visit freyar's Homepage Send freyar a Private Message
Thanks for the Blue Dragon info, fellow scribes! Of course, if Ed wants to say more, I'm not going to tell him no.

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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
589 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2009 :  17:46:19  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by freyar

Thanks for the Blue Dragon info, fellow scribes! Of course, if Ed wants to say more, I'm not going to tell him no.



Makes me wonder what they would name their Air Forces or Special Forces, since Dragons seem to be the theme in Cormyr...

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
27050 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2009 :  21:31:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

quote:
Originally posted by freyar

Thanks for the Blue Dragon info, fellow scribes! Of course, if Ed wants to say more, I'm not going to tell him no.



Makes me wonder what they would name their Air Forces or Special Forces, since Dragons seem to be the theme in Cormyr...



Special Forces would be the Black Dragons.

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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
775 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2009 :  23:23:09  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message
Scrolls shared, scribes:

Ed, would like to know are all the current leadership in Tasseldale
as of 1375 DR. Will try and bring a much more meaty question next
time.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31447 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2009 :  23:38:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

quote:
Originally posted by freyar

Thanks for the Blue Dragon info, fellow scribes! Of course, if Ed wants to say more, I'm not going to tell him no.



Makes me wonder what they would name their Air Forces or Special Forces, since Dragons seem to be the theme in Cormyr...



Special Forces would be the Black Dragons.

Hehe... I wonder how many scribes will pick up on this one -- Ed and the Lady Hooded One included.

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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe

147 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  00:59:33  Show Profile  Visit GoCeraf's Homepage Send GoCeraf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

quote:
Originally posted by freyar

Thanks for the Blue Dragon info, fellow scribes! Of course, if Ed wants to say more, I'm not going to tell him no.



Makes me wonder what they would name their Air Forces or Special Forces, since Dragons seem to be the theme in Cormyr...



Special Forces would be the Black Dragons.



You're American. Shouldn't the special forces be... Green Dragons?



A while back, Mr. Greenwood answered a query of mine with a detailed list of music he likes to listen to. This is an expansive question.

What records or CDs or [storage medium here] do you have around the house for ready listening? Moreover, what music do you like to listen to when you're just in the mood to listen to music? This can be genres, artists, even individual songs.

THO, same question if you have the time.

All the best,
Wolfram

Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling.
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Penknight
Senior Scribe

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  02:23:13  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message
I totally get it! Nicely put!!

Telethian Phoenix
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
11508 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  03:22:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf

You're American. Shouldn't the special forces be... Green Dragons?

He was thinking 'Black Ops', not Green Berets.

Now 'Green Dragons' might make an interesting name for a unit of Marines.

What are Cormyr's 'trim colors'? Either 'Gold' or 'Silver' Dragons would work for a unit of Griffonriders.

I suppose a covert group with double agents could be called 'Red Dragons' (thinking that certain Red Wizards may have 'turned coat' and be secretly working for the War Wizards...)

Hmmmm... has something like that ever happened?

I know the reverse has...


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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Mar 2009 16:34:44
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe

147 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  03:27:02  Show Profile  Visit GoCeraf's Homepage Send GoCeraf a Private Message
Black Ops isn't the name of a specific special forces group, though. Black Ops refers to a type of operation (probably performed by special forces) that is conducted in secret, and probably illegal. Deniable cause.

Green Dragons was referring to the Green Berets, the American Special Forces.

And stopping with the tangent, because I become a jerk when I argue.

Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling.
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  03:57:30  Show Profile  Visit Knight of the Gate's Homepage  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf

You're American. Shouldn't the special forces be... Green Dragons?

He was thinking 'Black Ops', not Green Berets.
<snip>



I served with a few of those guys, and for the record... they hate that particular nomenclature. 'A Green Beret is a hat, not a man' is something I heard more than once.
On the topic of the Blue Dragons, there are a few tidbits on them in Power of Faerun, to add to the list of tomes mentioning them.
And insofar as Spec Ops, the Forest Kingdom has Highknights for that sort of tomfoolery.
Though, IMO, there's actually very little place for 'special operations' in the Realms in general, let alone in Cormyr. Most of the jobs of SF are 1)raising and training native insurgents for the purpose of overthrowing the extant government or resisting invasion by a hostile force inimical to your nation-state's interest in the region, and 2) Advanced patrolling utilizing small-unit tactics, i.e. intel-gathering (specifically known as HumInt). These functions can be performed by other (namely magical) means in the Realms far more efficiently by magical means than by small elite groups of highly-trained warriors. And, again, when the Forest Kingdom needs those sorts, it has War Wizards and Highknights, repectively.
But, hey... what do I know?

EDIT: To make this more appropriate for Ed's scroll, a question or two as regards Heralds in the Realms: Just how many Heralds are there, and how ubiquitous are they? Would (say) a baron in Damara have a Court Herald? Would this be dependent on whether or not the baron in question was the holder of 'important' lands? In short, what sort of courts play host to a permanent Herald? And who decides which courts 'get' Heralds? I'm fascinated by the Heralds, and would love any info in them that Ed (or, it should go without saying, the delectable THO) should like to share.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco

Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 23 Mar 2009 04:11:21
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31447 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  04:38:36  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Knight, Ed's talked about the Heralds at length in previous replies. There are simply too many to re-post here. So, instead, I would suggest you search through the compiled reply files [see the "So Saith Ed" URL in my sig] for the specific entries on the Heralds. Most of the replies are scattered throughout the '04, '05, and '06 files.

And along with Power of Faern, see Ed's Code of the Harpers as well for more on the Heralds.

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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  04:48:03  Show Profile  Visit Knight of the Gate's Homepage  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message
Thanks, Sage: I'm about 2/3 of the way thru the '08 'Ed Scroll' now. Thanks for the heads up, and I'll get to 'em eventually!

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  08:04:34  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
More SIlverfall questions!
So, The SImbul - what happened? Obviously, the black fire did something, but how did it stop her from casting spells? Was that really The Simbul? Did she transform herself into the wand? How did she survive and turn into that 'imprisoning sphere'?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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PaulBestwick
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
83 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  08:08:46  Show Profile Send PaulBestwick a Private Message
I always thought of adventurers as special forces. Small unit of individuals who have disperate skills that make them more powerful than the sum of the whole. Especially in Cormyr with the Royal Charter for certain adventuring groups.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4845 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  14:57:18  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, scribes. Sorry for the silence yesterday, and the brief nature of this post: I'm on assignment, and borrowing a library public access Net terminal to type this.
Menelvagor, this is by no means a "proper" reply, but Laeral's "silver fire" will be sucked into the Weave (either to be lost forever, or to be snared by a god, including the possibility of it "drifting back to Mystra") if she's too long without a body.
And the Knight of the Gate has the right of it: in Cormyr, the Highknights and the War Wizards perform the functions of both "special ops" government military and paramilitary, and not-so-secret police/espionage government organizations. Though they aren't above hiring or manipulating (or even framing) adventurers, during such operations.
Of course, if nobles want to play the special ops/espionage game, they hire adventurers (if they're wise, through several layers of intermediaries, and with their own "house spies" watching over the hired adventurers).
Also, to Knight of the Gate, regarding heralds: very briefly, there are "heralds" (a Court staffer, paid by the ruler who hires them) and "the Heralds" (the Faerun-wide organization of High Heralds and lower "official" heralds under them). The first sort of local herald keeps records, records marriages, establishes seating orders at feast banquets and precedence during ceremonies, makes grand verbal announcements in the physical court, and so on. The second sort keeps the "true" genealogies and register and orders blazons (coats of arms), independent of all rulers, kingdoms, and the like. The Harpers have in the past been an arm of these Heralds, and the two groups still work closely and cordially together on a regular basis.
Or to put it colloquially, the first sort of herald is a ruler's barking dog; the second sort keeps all rulers in line, as far as displaying blazons and claiming inheritances/descent/claims/blood relationships goes.

Heh. So saith me.
(Ed will be back soon; he's been VERY busy these last few days.)
love to all,
THO
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  18:25:18  Show Profile  Visit Knight of the Gate's Homepage  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message
Gee, THO, it makes me all... *tingly* when you use my name.

On the Heralds: So the 'heralds' of Cormyr aren't 'big H' Heralds? My confusion is boundless. What else is new?

Many thanks for taking the time to post, milady. If it isn't said enough, one and all appreciate the lengths to which you go for us; and would gladly offer recompense in the form of whatever... services milady might require.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4845 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  19:11:24  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Purrrr...I love Knights who offer to service ladies. Their swords are always so bright and long and keen ... ohhhhhhh... ahhh.
Ahem.
Knight of the Gate, Cormyr has BOTH sorts of heralds. The "lower h" heralds include Court (or Crown) heralds (each "local lord" has one, and there's a backup or second herald for each city [Suzail, Marsember, Arabel], plus a staff of six or seven heralds based in the Royal Court building, who travel to assist in investitures, carry proclamations to nobles, etc.) and private heralds (that is, heralds who work for nobles). These "local heralds" hold offices named for the settlement they're based in, so there's a High Horn, an Eveningstar, and so on. These are the sorts of heralds which members of the "court herald" prestige class detailed in POWER OF FAERUN would be part of.
There are also "capital H" Heralds of two sorts: the large, leading offices of that organization, such as Crescentcoat and Old Night (collectively known as the High Heralds), whose holders move around the Realms constantly, as necessary for their duties, and may pass through or even tarry in Cormyr - - and lower-ranking "capital H" heralds who are stationed in geographical areas and "responsible" for those areas (for instance, policing the misuse of heraldic blazons, which is why nobles or brigands have to be shrieking mad before they will even consider using someone else's badge or full coat of arms on their armor, to deceive witnesses as to who's doing nasty things whilst wearing that armor). I'm away from my notes and can't recall the names of these lower-ranking Heralds whose regions include Cormyr or part of Cormyr. Although the War Wizards, the Obarskyrs and most nobles, senior courtiers of Cormyr, and for that matter heralds of all sorts know who these Cormyr-responsible Heralds would be (I seem to recall that Starblade is one of them, covering southeastern Cormyr, but I may be mistaken; Garen Thal?), the general populace generally does not; they keep a low profile except when confronting someone who's breaking the rules of heraldry. They are chosen (evaluated, and dismissed if need be) by the High Heralds, by the way, not by any local ruler or government.
Ed of course has copious notes on the Heralds, both published and unpublished, but likes to keep them mysterious, too; we'll have to see how much he wants to reveal about Cormyr's Heralds (there were or are some long-standing fiction NDAs tied to some of them, which is why he tends to deflect attention to the local heralds and those six or seven traveling Court Heralds).

So saith me, again. Hurr HURR, and so forth.
love,
THO
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  19:33:38  Show Profile  Visit Knight of the Gate's Homepage  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message
There's that tingle again...
The delineation betwixt Heralds and heralds is now clear even to me, milady. And all I have to offer in recompense for such a trove of lore is to pledge my *sword* to milady's service when and where she will. It's only the chivalrous thing to do, after all!

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  20:13:32  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Hah! Your 'sword' is probably nothing more than a thin dagger! Pay no attention to him, my lady! A true protector, such as me, wields a spear!
But on to (I think) my last Silverfall question:
Alustriel has a part where she does some remembering, and thinks of Khelben and El. She mentions El as the person who raised her. Now, according to The Temptation of ELminster, El raised Dove, Storm and Laeral. And in Elminster In Hell, Alustriel was raised by her uncle. So what's going on? Is it a retcon. Did ALustriel later come to El, and learn from him for some years?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2221 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  21:41:36  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message
All this, ahem, sparring is unfortunately apropos of my question. It's somewhat disturbing, and I apologize in advance if anyone is offended, but THO has said we can ask her or Ed anything, and I could use some advice on this one.

Background: one of my players, a high level wizard, is starting to make noises about maybe starting a school of magic in some goodly nation or city. While I'm sure this makes Mystra happy, it's making me look at the low-level spells in the (2e) PHB in a new light. Maybe I need to go sing a couple more happy songs, because I'm suddenly seeing how many of them can be used for sexual harassment and out-right rape. Sleep, friends, forget, unseen servant, invisibility, hold person, suggestion, and that's just the really obvious ones in the first few levels!

The problem is that all this is front-loaded. A first level wizard can make themselves an essentially-permanent sex slave, especially if they pick someone good looking with the brain of sand. And since many places keep "apprentices" around far beyond the first level, the potential for trouble staggers the mind. Especially when you think about how much sex goes on in your average high school or college, without any magic whatsoever.

My question is two-fold. First, how do magical institutions clamp down on this sort of thing? I'm assuming that those schools that focus on teaching beginning magic (ie: K-12) to usually young novices would have the most problems, as opposed to "graduate studies" schools like Windsong Tower, since the young people are less mature, more awkward, and their targets (fellow students) aren't as likely to have defenses against this sort of thing. Masters wandering around zapping students at random with dispel magic to see if something breaks doesn't seem very practical. Bad enough worrying about someone messing up their fireball enchantment, how do students come out without their brains being scrambled into fine goo?

Second, and just as important, how do schools situated within cities prevent all of the above from happening to the general populace? Heading off campus for a bit of "fun" would likely seem to be less risky (again, less chance of your target noticing what you're doing). Do mage schools coordinate with local law enforcement? Would students out on the town be followed (physically or magically)? If a student did something, how would reporting/arresting/trial go? And given all the above, how aware is your average city of these potential subtle problems (as opposed to the obvious "They're going to blow up the Docks Ward!") of allowing a mage school inside the walls?

We have numerous instances of mage schools existing throughout Faerun's history, so some solutions must have been found besides Thay's "Do whatever you want to those weaker than you" mentality. I'd appreciate any help you could give me in dealing with this disturbing use of magic.

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4845 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  21:56:40  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Menelvagor, re this query of yours: "Did Alustriel later come to El, and learn from him for some years?"
EXACTLY. Remember, El's well over a thousand years old, and most of the Seven are hundreds of years old. Plenty of time for "raising."
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4845 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2009 :  22:02:27  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hoondatha, good questions all.
I know this is something that Ed and several female TSR staffers discussed in detail over a GenCon dinner, years ago (they were what might be called feminists, and were quite concerned that the POTENTIAL was there, in the game as then detailed, for the concerns you're raising . . . and the Code of Ethics meant the subject could even be alluded to, even if only to say "X and Y prevent Z and A for being used for personal exploitation of students," or something carefully "neutrally worded" as that.
I know that in our roleplaying, as Ed "ran" it, Laspeera kept VERY close watch over War Wizards possibly misusing their positions, and expected them to in turn watch over all other wizards in Cormyr (and, when they could, priests, though THAT was an ongoing cause of problems, thanks to "pushback" from all of the churches involved). What happens elsewhere in the Realms will have to left to Ed to answer, I'm afraid.
love,
THO
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