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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 00:24:29
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Hello again, all. This, from Ed, commenting on Markustay's Weave explanation post, above:
Nicely put, Markustay. VERY nicely put.
You "think Realms" with the best of us. :}
So saith Ed. And I (of course) concur. 
love,
THO |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 00:58:20
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It still doesn't explain where Primals get their powers from or future elemental source powers. Druids have to get powers somewhere, or else you might as well exclude Druids and the rest from the realms.
Primal classes get their power from the spirits of the mortal world, or Toril in this case. If the weave was supplying the power before, non-god characters can not give power, and all druids get their powers form the gods... where do the modern druids gain their powers? Wouldn't that exclude all Primal, all non Martial/Psionic/Arcane/Divine power sources?
By your example, all druids have no power.
Can I get an explanation of where the power, whom the power comes from? Has the realms followed the core and now spirits provide the power for druids or is it something else.
Basically the explanation is incomplete when trying to include the new classes of the PH2 and further expansions.
You have explained why Spirits and Primordials can not grant Prayers (Divine source powers), not where Evocations come from (Primal sourced powers). |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 20 Mar 2009 01:05:41 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 02:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello again, all. This, from Ed, commenting on Markustay's Weave explanation post, above:
Nicely put, Markustay. VERY nicely put.
You "think Realms" with the best of us. :}
So saith Ed. And I (of course) concur.
love,
THO
 Markustay has just accomplished what I heretofore thought impossible... making the demise of Mystra and the Weave seem like a Good Thing(TM).  I'm shocked, to say the least, but not at all surprised that he was the one to make sense of it. Of course, what this all means is that there need be no barrier to the ascension of new powers of magic in the Realms; Ao (and/or His superiors) need only prevent the re-creation of the Weave. After all, as far as we know, Oerth gets along fine in 4E with Boccob, Wee Jas, and no Weave, so why should Toril not be allowed to have deities of magic just because the guiding principle of 4E is that magic shouldn't be any more powerful than any non-magical discipline? Just phrasing it that way makes it sound patently ridiculous; why would magic exist at all if this were the case? Anyway, this is turning into something between a rant and an essay; I'm not sure which, and either way, I'm threadjacking Ed, which is not my intent. I'll shut up now, but I'm interested in Ed's thoughts on my views. Essay finished / rant over.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 20 Mar 2009 02:10:07 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 02:32:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
By your example, all druids have no power. <major snippage>
Which is why I left an 'out'.
Notice I metioned how some 'nature gods' may have already been tapping Fey magic, or even another source. 4e's 'power-sources' all amount to the same - ways in which to manipulate the universe around you to do your bidding. Arcane Power became the dominant force on Toril because Mystra made it so. People forgot 'the old ways' because she made it so easy - you impress a mystic formula into your brain, mumble a few eldritch words, sprinkle some powder and 'POOF', instant effect.
Now arcane formulas are no longer the short-cut they once were, and people have to rely on their own inner understanding of magic itself. This means that they can't learn as many different effects as they did before, but they are able to master the ones they do learn, and cast them repeatedly now.
Without the Weave and its easy connection to the Arcane source, folks are exploring forgotten paths to power, not just Arcane. This is nothing new - Shadoweavers have been doing it for years, and on other parts of Toril other magical traditions have kept-on despite the Weave, such as the Pluma magic of Maztica, or the Zakharan Elemental Sorcerors.
I didn't say all those other beings aside from Gods couldn't ever grant spells - I merely pointed out that they were no longer able to use the easy method employed before.
Some will discover new ways, or rather, 're-discover' old ways. Others will not, and be forced to be beholden to Higher Powers to supply their followers - in the case of Arch-Devils, Asmodeus would suit this purpose now.
Heck, I can even back some of this up with canon - it is a fact that the Sarrukh had recorded strange magical traditions in the Nether Scrolls - just because the majority of Archwizards chose to follow the arcane path (because of Mystryl's Weave) doesn't mean they all did, and I know that Telemont and the Chronomancer certainly went their own way, and even Ioulaum eventually sought an alternate source (psionics). In fact, probably most of the ones who walked a different Path then Arcane Magic are the ones who survived the fall.
'Strange Ancient Magics' have always been a staple of the Realms - its just rising to the forefront again. The wheel of time turns, and a new age has dawned.
Its just my take, so you can use it or throw it out if you hate it, but explaining away inconsistencies helps me sleep at night. With the Weave and Mystra out of the picture, and the Spellplague rolling over the cosmos, its really not that hard to figure out why everything works differently now.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Markustay has just accomplished what I heretofore thought impossible... making the demise of Mystra and the Weave seem like a Good Thing(TM).
You should here my take on the changes to the Elves some time... change... what change?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Mar 2009 02:35:12 |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 02:45:22
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With the recent reply on Bannermere of Thunderstone, it reminded me...how deep in Ed's queue are the travails of Cormyr's Sorndrake family?  |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 04:11:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Notice I metioned how some 'nature gods' may have already been tapping Fey magic, or even another source. 4e's 'power-sources' all amount to the same - ways in which to manipulate the universe around you to do your bidding. Arcane Power became the dominant force on Toril because Mystra made it so. People forgot 'the old ways' because she made it so easy - you impress a mystic formula into your brain, mumble a few eldritch words, sprinkle some powder and 'POOF', instant effect. <snip>
If it helps, think of it this way:
Mystra is Bill Gates and the Weave is Internet Explorer. Clerics of most of the gods use it because it's the most-used method to access the magic, but there are some gods that use other methods (Shadow Weave could be Firefox, Nature magic could be Safari, Elemental magic could be Chrome).  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 06:16:50
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I've used that computer-interface analogy so many times over at WotC, I didn't want to use it again here.
But yes... thats the idea... Just like everyone went to Windows because Bill made it easy. And just like Microsoft (Mystrasoft? ), it was a way of getting everyone to follow your banner and gain control of an industry (or magic, in Mystra's case).
Using Raw Magic is like trying to program in assembler, and No-one does that anymore. I suppose if we were hit with the 'Codeplague' tomorrow and it wiped-out Windows for good, then we'd have to re-learn the older, harder (and yet, far more powerful) way to program computers.
See? Thats why I didn't bring it up... you got my started again... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Mar 2009 06:18:58 |
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 06:17:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
I still don't understand what Dove was doing with that sword dance. How exactly does that empower magic swords?
I believe I may be able to answer this one for you.
Dove was dancing in Greentree Haven, a magical grove in the Sword Coast North that grew from the remains of Eirl Rauthantannar, who was the Magister of Mystra from 236-247 DR.
As a result of Eirl's legacy, the grove has many powers that can be called upon by those who stand within it. One of these powers causes spells cast within the grove that enchant magic items (or that transfer enchantments from one magic item to another) to function at a greater efficiency and reduces the casting times of such spells. That alone is a enough of a boon, but Dove had something else to aid her; for the story suggests that the silver fire that flows through Dove's veins (and those of all Mystra's Chosen) enabled her to make the duplicated enchantments in those weapons permanent with greater ease, likely as an alternative to casting a permanency spell.
As for what the "sword dance" actually was, I would guess it was akin to a casting of the spells steeldance and a variant of double steel or enchant an item, with the silver fire emanating from her wounds serving as a substitute for permanency.
Bear in mind that both Silverfall and the lore regarding Greentree Haven (from Secrets of the Magister) were written during the 2E era of the rules, and thus I am referring to the magic item creation rules from that edition of the game in the comments above. Steeldance and Double Steel appear in The Seven Sisters AD&D game accessory. |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 10:58:45
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Markustay has just accomplished what I heretofore thought impossible... making the demise of Mystra and the Weave seem like a Good Thing(TM). I'm shocked, to say the least, but not at all surprised that he was the one to make sense of it. Of course, what this all means is that there need be no barrier to the ascension of new powers of magic in the Realms; Ao (and/or His superiors) need only prevent the re-creation of the Weave. After all, as far as we know, Oerth gets along fine in 4E with Boccob, Wee Jas, and no Weave, so why should Toril not be allowed to have deities of magic just because the guiding principle of 4E is that magic shouldn't be any more powerful than any non-magical discipline? Just phrasing it that way makes it sound patently ridiculous; why would magic exist at all if this were the case? Anyway, this is turning into something between a rant and an essay; I'm not sure which, and either way, I'm threadjacking Ed, which is not my intent. I'll shut up now, but I'm interested in Ed's thoughts on my views. Essay finished / rant over.
But the thing that really ****** me off is that they could have accomplished all that without killing Mystra. For example - Mystra could have completely changed the way magic worked of her own free will - after all, she wasn't Mystryl or the previous Mystra, and she might well have seen the inherent flaw in a single deity having control over all of magic (which she didn't in the first place - and the flaw in the idea is very plain to see with Mystra's death followed by spellplague). Toril ends up with a magic deity that isn't "all powerful" (which is laughable in the first place because she patently wasn't!), and I (and a lot of other people) get to keep my (our) favorite deity.
To combine that with the death of one of my other favorite deities (Eilistraee), and the total wreckage that was inflicted on another (Tymora), still just makes me want to spit bile. (Not to mention that Sharess is now listed as just a minor deity of cats with no apparent mention of her at all as goddess of pleasure - but I could have just missed that in my half-heated flick through the 4e Realms books.) If I were completely paranoid (and I'm not, so I well know what I'm about to say is not true), I'd say that the powers that be went out of their way to drive me away from the setting. They pretty much annihilated everything I liked about the Realms in one go, and haven't done anything since to try to win me (and people like me) back. (I don't see anything in 4e Realms that excites me, not even the half-hearted attempt to include a bisexual character in the first chapter of FRCG. *waits for someone to go "huh? what bisexual character?"*)
(Sorry, I had to get that off my chest... again.)
Mod Edit: Censored the language slightly. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 Mar 2009 12:24:27 |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 13:24:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
(Not to mention that Sharess is now listed as just a minor deity of cats with no apparent mention of her at all as goddess of pleasure - but I could have just missed that in my half-heated flick through the 4e Realms books.)
I tried to portray Sharess as a deity of pleasure in DALE1-1 The Prospect. Then again, I did the same thing with Loviatar, and I am sure some people may frown at the two faiths co-existing in peace in the same locale.
It also has a reference to Mystra (rather obviously) and to Eilistraee (though you probably have to know it to find it).
As to sexuality: that is not unusual to not get mentioned as it is generally not of interest to the game. The Prospect does contain two bisexual characters (the final 'skill challenge' allows seduction as part of a SC). But there is also a lesbian one, and her sexuality is not mentioned because it wasn't necessary (yet) - I just know she is.
I am just saying that there are still lots of possibilities. RPGA may not be your thing, but LFR does expand the Realms (though yes, sometimes things do get cut, but often for very different reasons than you may think), and there is also DDI, where you can contriubute if you don't wish to write for us.
I am also dissapointed with some of the changes. Not Mystra so much, but I do miss Eilistraee, Kiaransalee, Dambrath (as it was), Eldath, Mask (though my guess is he'll return), and people such as Mirt, Alustriel, and whole lot of interesting minor NPCs.
But while we can fume about things that change, we also we can still bring some pieces of the old lore back to the fore, while maintaining the present. I hope I can find that depth (and occasional Ed-lore) and bring it to the new audience.
Gomez,
who, while not a sage, definitely feels he brings 4th ed lore to the people...
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 14:43:09
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Hello, all.
Daviot, Ed says we're about a week away from Sorndrake details for all, though it might turn into ten days if "certain fecal matters come into contact with particular whirling metal bladed objects."
Which words I think I may send to certain real-world politicians, to help them in future speeches about how long it may take for financial fixes to take effect. Or not.
love,
THO |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 14:45:58
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This is not really the appropriate thread for this, so my apologies in advance to Ed (and THO and the mods).
Not saying I agree with everything WotC did, but it is what it is.
The folks at the company had MULTIPLE reasons for everything that was done, not all of which we are privy to. Picking just one reason and figuring out why something was unnecessary isn't a good way of doing things, since they were trying to accomplish several things with each change.
Granted, we were handed THREE major changes all at once, and I personally feel any two would have been sufficient - as of right now, the century timejump is the only thing that still sticks in my craw (I feel that was overkill).
Anyhow, when they needed to make changes to magic before, as the did between 1e and 2e, Mystra's 'rebirth' was sufficient. Magic didn't need to change that much because we still had Vancian casting. This time out, D&D has had its most major single-edition overhall since AD&D first appeared, and we have finally moved away from Vancian Magic. The dsigners felt something more significant then just "Mystra 4.0 made some changes" was needed to explain such a drastic shift, and at the same time accomplish the secondary goal of getting rid of Mystra and her Chosen (which were felt - for right or wrong - were a hindrance for some players to enjoy FR).
Think about the 2e changes and then think about the 4e changes - we barely noticed when Midnight became Mystra. Something far more profound was needed this time out (for better or worse).
Once again, I'm not going all 'pro-4e' here. I still feel strongly about quite a few decisions that were made - I'm just saying I understand their reasoning behind many of those decisions at this point.
There is a difference between understanding someone's point of view, and agreeing with it.
Edit: And before I get spanked (), I might as well throw a question in here - Someone in another thread asked me about doing an 'historic' map of Netheril, but the truth be told, I'm not really too keen on Netherease lore. I do remember some discussion about the Narrow Sea, and how its direction needed to be changed in source because the designer of the Netheril box put it the 'wrong way', or some-such. However, I note that the map in the GHotR shows it going the same way as it did on those old maps, which leaves me scratching my head. There was a perfect opporunity to correct things, and show which way it should have went. I realize some lore was added-in about the Sarrukh and why it changed direction, but I'm still somewhat confused by all of this.
Did the Narrow Sea originally run north-south in the days of Thunder? If thats the case, then doesn't some of the lore-conundrums still exists (certain original Netherease ruins where not 'followed' by the box designer)? It just seems to me to be a good 'fix', the sea would have needed to change during the time of Netheril. I was just wondering if you had an insight into what is going on with that Sea. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Mar 2009 15:00:07 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 14:58:42
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No, dearest Markustay, it's quite all right to post that here. You saved either Ed or me saying the same things you just did, which one or other would have done eventually, just in response to Zandilar's quite legitimate upset over what was done.
On another matter: scribes in the Toronto, Ontario, Canada area may be interested to know that Ed will be attending Ad Astra (next weekend) at the Crowne Plaza Don Valley (Eglinton at DVP) as a panelist, on Saturday and Sunday only. He'll be doing a reading and will be part of a gang-signing, for those who want to chat or get autographs, and will probably "hang around" Saturday night (that is, when not actually in panels; I understand the panel sked will go up soon at the website: www.ad-astra.org ). He probably won't have time or energy left then for pickup games of anything, but is always up for friendly chat.
love to all,
THO |
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Aerik DeVallo
Seeker
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 19:08:17
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I have a question for Ed: Did the Simbul and Szass Tam ever directly meet in battle in the cannon versions? If so, where could I find it, cause lemme tell ya, that'd be a read.
Also, can we expect any more Instalments in the Elminster series? Or even a new series of Elminster stories?
By the by, I can't wait to read the third book of Swords of Eveningstar. Couldn't put the first two down. Is it even out yet in paperback? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 20:02:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Archmagus Brandon
By the by, I can't wait to read the third book of Swords of Eveningstar. Couldn't put the first two down. Is it even out yet in paperback?
Amazon says May 5th for the paper back. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 22:20:57
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Also with Mystra, going by the 4E Design on the Pantheon. Mystra would have had her own Super Mini Pantheon(TM). Her, Azuth, Sevras(sp), Velshalroon(sp), Seven Sisters, The Real Blackstaff, (If he didn't die in Steven's Novel) and last but not least Elminster.
That would be at least 12 different beings in her orbit. Yes if Mystra made it into 4E her Chosen would be Exarch's. All other Gods Chosen became Exarch's in 4E. If they made the transition to 1479 DR. Not saying I agree with what was done to Mystra, but comparing it with what was done, it does makes sense to remove her. Mystra would have been the single most powerful and dominating God in the Realms.
You mileage may vary.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Aysen
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 22:25:19
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Hello Ed, LHO, and fellow scribes,
Apologies for the long entry to follow, but I've a few thoughts to discuss, regarding Filfaeril Bound and Willing, a couple longshot guesses at the mysterious author, and indirectly flowing from that, a question regarding the background of a certain War Wizard. Here I go
1.) This one is primarily directed to the Moderators of this forum thread. Generally regarding the guessing contest of Filfaeril Bound and Willing, has the discussion reached a critical mass sufficient to support its own thread, possibly in the "Sages of Realmslore" section? Is it possible to comb through the entries over the past months to "reconstruct" the discussion of the contest in another thread specially devoted to it?
Pros: No need to cherry-pick through other discussions if you want to go back and see what others have guessed and LHO's responses (which sometimes themselves are clues )
Cons: Assuming that more fellow scribes peruse the "Ask Ed" thread than browse the "Sages of Realmslore" section, there will be less people hazarding guesses at the authorship. Also, since LHO serves as the middle-man (ahem, middle-ma'am) between us and Ed, she visits this particular thread more often than any other and thus moving the contest to its own thread results in less frequent responses from Ed regarding our guesses.
(Or was I mistaken LHO? Did you set up this guessing contest for your own amusement, aside from Ed's, since you are privy to the author's name? Perhaps demanding a bit of cerebral exercise after all the carnal teasing?  )
Ultimately, I'd like to promote the guessing contest to as many fellow scribes as possible. Whether this means leaving it intertwined with "Ask Ed" or moving it to its own thread is up for debate. I'd like to read what the Moderators and others feel about this. Perhaps, at Ed's and LHO's pleasure, this "guess the author" contest could become a repeatable thing?
2.) Here are my two longshot guesses at Filfaeril Bound and Willing, holding my last allowed guess in reserve for the future:
-- Lord Boarrevarn Bryarn
He's a noble, probably rich enough to secretly fund publication of a chapbook, and already experienced at penning torrid chapbooks under the pseudonym "Darra Delanther". Desires to sway public opinion against the Obarskyrs and the Court, and Filfaeril... may have been a failed attempt. Known to the Court but keeps his family fairly aloof from it.
-- Court Herald Touchstar of Cormyr
I personally don't know much about her, but as a fixture at the Court, she's probably privy to a lot of the "goings-on" and machinations there. Although she's based in the Suzail, her allegiances would likely be with the High Heralds balanced with the needs of the Royal Court, so there is some distance maintained. Who knows? (Ed and LHO knows!) Maybe she penned the steamy chapbook.
3.) Lastly, a question to Ed for a bit of character background and explanation. My last guess on authorship would have been a War Wizard, one Huldyl Rauthur, based mostly on his love of chapbooks as seen in Elminster's Daughter. However, after thinking about it, I decided that its unlikely that he wrote it and more likely that he simply read it, despite it being banned.
[ALERT! SPOILERS AHEAD!]
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Why does Huldyl go from being a trusted and experienced ranking War Wizard in the Cormyr Trilogy, only to willingly commit treason with a Red Wizard a few years later in Elminster's Daughter? Is it because of sheer arcane greed for the dozen or so spells offered by the Thayan, plus a sense of "I'm not being appreciated here, and I'm starting to feel my age" etc.? Perhaps it was "I don't like whatever secret Vangy's working on that keeps us all occupied, and Caladnei and Laspeera are too close to him to stop him, who can I turn to (and make a tidy profit for myself)"?
How did Darkspells make contact with Huldyl and decide "he's my way in to Vangy's sanctuary" --- through other members of the Rightful Conspiracy, Joysil Ambrur, or his own methods?
Thanks Ed and LHO!
--Aysen |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 00:05:56
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Heya,
I'm sorry for my ranting again... But I have a few things to say that kind of address both Markustay and Gomez.
The big irk is that we really did get the 1st to 2nd ed changes all over again (Remembering that Mystryl's death predates edition changes and so happened "off page"). Mystra has to die so magic changes? Why can't Mystra herself make changes? I can understand that the previous LN Mystra might not have been able to adapt, and so her death may well have been necessary, but NG Mystra has no "alignment restrictions" that might stop her from making fundamental changes to the way magic works (LN Mystra could have made changes if she really wanted to). She might have actually, you know, thought about it and come to the conclusion that so much power in one set of hands with no real backups is not a good idea. She is a deity of magic, and she would see all possibilities before her regarding magic - including her becoming a tyrant if she ever died and came back again (LE Mystra, anyone?).
Mystra could easily have become unaligned in the process, and bang there you are... a non-"all powerful" Mystra, who didn't have to die for magic changes, who is no longer good aligned. There could even have been consequences - she may have had to be absent for a while, which might well have caused the spellplague - but that would have been a small sacrifice for her to make to avert an even bigger disaster (like Toril being torn apart because some powerful deity got it into their head to try to wrest magic from Mystra completely). They really really didn't have to kill her again.
As for making Chosen into Exarchs? I think you might find that not all Chosen got to become Exarchs, so why would all of Mystra's have had to become Exarchs? We wouldn't have had to have Khelben, Elminster, and the Seven Sisters in Mystra's mini-pantheon. Besides which, I never liked the idea of cutting down the pantheon (I really think they went too far with that). Honestly, the Realms pantheon has always been small fry when compared to some pantheons that belong to ancient religions here on Earth.
If I were in a position to write for the Realms (and I'm not, being that I live in Australia, have little experience in the industry, and haven't written anything significant enough to get noticed, let alone published), I would happily try to fix things a bit at a time (as subtly as I could), or reintroduce 3.5e (and earlier) lore, or even introduce new strong female characters for feminists like me to latch on to... But I'm not, and so I am currently doing the only thing left to me, voting with my wallet. WotC has got none of my money since I purchased the first three core 4e DnD books.
Anyway, if mods want to move this post to somewhere more appropriate, please do so (and let me know where it's gone, as I rarely post or even read outside of this thread). I won't even append a question for Ed to make this easier, though I would be interested to hear any ideas he might have had to "save Mystra" instead of this regurgitation of the change from 1st to 2nd Ed Realms without the phoenix factor. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 00:44:59
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<sigh> As I said, changing the magic for 4e was but one of many considerations - Mystra herself seems to have been a problem to a great many people (and no... please don't ask me how that was possible - there have been 100-page threads over at WotC on the subject). Once again, I don't agree entirely with their reasoning, but I can follow their reasoning.
@Aysen - a seperate thread would spoil our fun. 
And BTW, who the heck is LHO? Has our fair hostess suddenly become French - La' Hooded One?
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Also with Mystra, going by the 4E Design on the Pantheon <snip> You mileage may vary.
And it would have been just as easy to cut a few and trim the fat, then throw out the entire side of beef.
I had more here, but this isn't the place... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Mar 2009 04:06:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 01:01:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And BTW, who the heck is LHO? Has our fair hostess suddenly become French - La' Hooded One?
I'm assuming Aysen means "Lady Hooded One," a title some of us have used in the past.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Aysen
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 01:04:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Aysen - a seperate thread would spoil our fun.
And BTW, who the heck is LHO? Has our fair hostess suddenly become French - La' Hooded One?
I had more here, but this isn't the place...
Well, LHO is short for "Lady Hooded One", but really any "L" adjective or adverb will work. Based on the whipped cream and honey remarks mentioned earlier by other scribes, "Libidinous", "Lascivious", "Luscious" could be duly substituted |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 01:05:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Aysen
1.) This one is primarily directed to the Moderators of this forum thread. Generally regarding the guessing contest of Filfaeril Bound and Willing, has the discussion reached a critical mass sufficient to support its own thread, possibly in the "Sages of Realmslore" section? Is it possible to comb through the entries over the past months to "reconstruct" the discussion of the contest in another thread specially devoted to it?
I was actually thinking about opening a separate scroll for the discussion last week, since it's now beginning to become something more than just a simple guessing-game for the most part. [And with the Lady Hooded One involved, I supposed that's to be expected. ]
Hmmm... I'll scour through the last few pages and pick out the Lady Hooded One's most pertinent quotes later today. Whereupon I'll generate a new scroll for the discussion.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 01:38:00
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<sigh> As I said, changing the magic for 4e was but one of many consdierations - Mystra herself seems to have been a problem to a great many people (and no... please don't ask me how that was possible - there have been 100-page threads over at WotC on the subject). Once again, I don't agree entirely with their reasoning, but I can follow their reasoning.
As far as it goes, I think the main problem seemed to be with her alignment (easily changed, they had set up a potential shift to TN in canon text, if people had cared to read it), and how her Chosen were such meddlers and they couldn't run their games without the Chosen spoiling their plots... I really think that some of them wouldn't be happy, unless the PCs were always the highest level characters in the game world (aside from villains, of course, you have to give the PCs a challenge) - which isn't really realistic. I think the best way to solve the latter problem is simply not to give NPCs a level in canon text, and let the DMs nut those out themselves.
quote:
And it would have been just as easy to cut a few and trim the fat, then throw out the entire side of beef.
I whole-heartedly agree with this sentiment. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 02:47:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And it would have been just as easy to cut a few and trim the fat, then throw out the entire side of beef.
I had more here, but this isn't the place...
I agree. But what is done is done. 
Then there is always "Not in my Realms".
Sorry folks, done derailing this topic.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 02:50:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And BTW, who the heck is LHO? Has our fair hostess suddenly become French - La' Hooded One?
Well, she is Canadian, isn't she? Maybe she's from Quebec? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 04:08:17
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She's Canadian?
Ohhhhhh... how....... Exotic.
Now I finally understand that saying "A Beauty way to go". 
And to try to bring this somewhat back on topic - Ed, I was just trying to find something... ANYTHING... on Shaareach. I found two mentions of it in your wonderful Elminster Speaks column, but aside from that I can't find a thing. You care to tell us whats there (or was there... its among the missing in the last two editions). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Mar 2009 04:16:14 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 06:01:05
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| I think the "Elminster Speaks" articles are pretty much the only detailed sources we have on Shaareach. Most everything else about it would probably have to come from Ed. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 10:45:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
If I were in a position to write for the Realms (and I'm not, being that I live in Australia, have little experience in the industry, and haven't written anything significant enough to get noticed, let alone published)
You are describing a significant number of (aspiring) authors in LFR... several of which are scribing right now.
If you want a shot, just mail me with what you would want to do, and I can see what possibilities exis , in mine or other's region (though actual changes in the Realms need R&D approval, and trust me that is not a given). I have a few specific and over-ambitious Dalelands plotlines (no idea yet if those will ever fully be realized), but there is lot of space for deviation, and room for interesting NPCs (female or... otherwise).
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 18:15:14
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quote:
Publicly and officially, the Crown ignored the work, except to ban its possession by any Purple and Blue Dragon...
My bold there. I don't know why I missed this before, but, Lady THO and Ed, who are the Blue Dragons of Cormyr? Or anybody else, where should I go read about them if I should have heard of them before? Many thanks in advance. |
My DnD Links and Creations |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 19:35:08
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quote:
Originally posted by freyar
quote:
Publicly and officially, the Crown ignored the work, except to ban its possession by any Purple and Blue Dragon...
My bold there. I don't know why I missed this before, but, Lady THO and Ed, who are the Blue Dragons of Cormyr? Or anybody else, where should I go read about them if I should have heard of them before? Many thanks in advance.
I believe the are mentioned in the 4th FRCG, at least. They are the navy to the Purple Dragon's Army. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2009)
Topic Locked
