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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  03:03:03  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Thank you to all the scholars who've given input on the sorcerer's acquisition of "rare" spells. I think that your ideas are wonderful and each might be applicable in a given circumstance. Starting with Aysen and going more or less backwards (forgive me if I don't mention you by name -- you know who you are): I will require sorcerers to role-play what it is that makes them think of a spell to cast; then (d'uh!) require a spellcraft check to see if their minds can actually grasp the mechanics of how to manipulate the Weave to cast such a complex spell; then enjoy the fun and games as clack goes 'round that some adventurer can cast some particular spell.

Yes, it was, indeed Spendelard's Chaser that I had in mind. Following the collective wisdom here, I will ask the player to tell me what makes him think that such a spell is even possible; put him through a spellcraft check just as if he was a wizard attempting to invent the spell (not knowing that it already exists!); then, if he's successful, let the fun begin when people begin to regard him as a "saint" who can cast poisons from a body (probably through the grace of <fill in the name of whatever deity will provide the most amusement to me>) or a "spell thief" or a really soft target who may have a very potent spellbook at his disposal; and -- yes! -- have him stalked by wizards who want that spell! The latter is not cruel or unusual in my campaign: the PCs long ago came across part of a copy of Unique Mageries (don't ask what happened to the poor hobgoblin who was vigorously interrogated as to his bowel-moving habits over the preceding few days and the efforts of the scouts to reconstruct his path); they were told that the spellbook was so awesomely valuable that the only safe thing to do with it before the First Battle of the Golden Way was to have the PC wizard who was studying it subjected to a teleport without error spell to El's tower (El wasn't home, of course, but Lhaeo was there to accept the book, make tea, and read a scroll to send the PC back to face 100,000 angry Tuigan and 30,000 unhappy Shou conscripts); the PCs thus know the contents of the spellbook and are aware that some people might kill (or worse) to learn the contents; they should be able to infer that there will be consequences to the casting of other especially desirable spells.

Merci beaucoup to all! I consider myself answered unless Ed would like to weigh in himself with some other maneuver to "protect" spells which he in many cases, invented.




I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  03:06:34  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Zandilar, Ed and I are of one mind on this: the POTENTIAL of e-books is just great, but the practice (thus far) has been anything but.
Here's the thing: as you folks in Australia know full well (Weber being a case in point), the old "bricks-and-mortar" bookselling model is badly broken; a lot of books just can't reach the public that wants to buy them. Publishers are losing money everywhere, paper prices are going sky-high artificially through near-monopolies over pulp mills, and the authors (except for the rare few who make BIG bucks) are getting scr*wed as badly as they always were.
However, e-books tend to be overpriced (considering they don't involve the printing, warehousing, shipping, etc. costs of physical books, why are they often as expensive or the same price? With the author getting even LESS of a share?) and most readers hard to read (earlier readers even had proprietary formats). More and more, authors may realize that they just don't need a publisher sucking most of the money out of their livelihoods for standing between them and their readers (after all, that's what going with a "big" publisher gains you over self-publishing: access to distribution).
So we are still "on the brink" (as we have been for about a decade now) of a potential explosion in e-book sales.
However, in the long run, consider this: a physical book can attract new readers just by lying around on beaches, bus seats, library shelves, flea market tables, and in doctors' waiting rooms. An e-book cannot.
A physical book needs functional eyeballs and light (like, ahem, sunlight). An e-book needs power, lack of dropping and breaking, and usually occasional access to the Internet (with credit card or PayPal account in hand). Language changes slowly enough that books that are centuries old are still useful. Good luck on playing that wax cylinder recording or even an 8-track, in most places; although an e-book has LEGAL permanence (i.e. "always in print"), in practice, it can be inaccessible/rendered obsolete much, much faster than a physical book.
Ed and I both have long and successful careers in publishing (he as a creator, me on the other side of the desk). Both of us have watched the e-book market TRY to develop, and noted the same root problems: publishers, be they traditionals or the new Net powers (Amazon, Google, et al), have tried to push various e-formats in order to dominate whatever the future of book publishing might turn out to be . . . and they risk losing control, big time. Which might be great for a lot of writers (those who can attract and hold an audience without good editors, massive publicity, and an active sales force). Writers typically get a VERY small piece of the publishing pie; take away the publisher, and even modest sales can net a writer much, much more cash than some of them "realize" right now.
So the publishers are going to have to tread VERY carefully, and one only has to look at Amazon (with the Kindle and their attempts to control Print On Demand editions), Google (and their current "we'll scan and sell ALL books unless authors opt out" efforts), Facebook (oh, by the way, we own everything you put on your Facebook pages . . . huh? Why are you all so upset?), and countless other examples to know that treading very carefully is NOT something they seem to have thus far been very good at.
Those who push e-sales, e-books, and the like continually belittle the importance of the VAST majority of the bookbuying public who either has no Net access or isn't comfortable shopping online, and WANTS to browse in a bookstore. These readers (whom the Net-savvy love to dismiss as "dinosaurs" or "the fading way of the past") remain over 90 percent (yes, you read that right, ninety percent) of bookbuyers. Grandparents the world over want to buy something TANGIBLE as a Christmas or birthday gift for those they dote on, not "here's a download card." (They may buy the download card if it's demanded, and may even by dumb luck or trying hard buy the right one, but they won't LIKE or be COMFORTABLE doing so.) So we're not yet at the "it's all inevitable, just sign up here" stage, and consumers are very wary at the moment, thanks to the economic downturn worldwide and their suspicions that e-books are going to be like buying movies to watch at home: Betamax no VHS, then competing formats of DVDs, whoops no, throw those old things away you want HD-DVD or no, Blu-Ray. A book they open, turn the pages, and look at with their eyeballs they understand; a welter of new formats, not so much.
There's an interesting old Isaac Asimov sf short story, "The Fun They Had," about kids enjoying these weird old things called books when their electronic "Teacher" breaks down, that points at this mindset from the other direction.
So that's the view Ed and I share on this right now. We're suspicious of publishers trying to push e-books as a format so they can "keep a book in print" forever, and do no publicity (we've both actually - - and separately - - heard publishing execs at different publishers say they're looking forward to e-books so they can fire their salesmen and do away with publicity costs, because "e-books won't need publicity; those kids hear about EVERYTHING on the Internet, so we won't need to do any"). We're suspicious of publishers mishandling all of this badly, and the various players who are interested in e-books to give them "control" over the market doing something that limits access of some readers to some books (many governments heavily censor citizens' access to specific Internet content, and even the so-called Western "bastions of freedom" countries have some heavyhanded new laws in their codes that they could use to censor in the same way; e-books will be much easier to "block" if the market for them isn't "shaped" properly).
We want everything to turn out for the best . . . but we don't yet see clear signs that it's even heading in the right direction to do so.
So we watch. VERY closely. Clinging to hope, and doing what little things we can to nudge things in what we see as the right direction.
We'll all just have to wait and see.
love,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 11 Mar 2009 01:12:05
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  03:26:42  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again.
Jamallo, I believe you've arrived at just the right roleplaying stance. Ed had "sorcerers" in the Realms long before the rules did (usually as "wild talents" of the Weave who could block/have immunity to one sort of spells [e.g. fire, lightning] AND could cast or launch one sort of magic.
Let me quote Ed's notes (these date from when a wizard was called a "magic-user" in the rules, and there were no official "sorcerers"):


In all cases where someone has a natural aptitude for the Art (a wild talent or someone successfully using non-spellbook "sorcery"), they MUST be able to clearly visualize an "end result" they want to achieve with magic, and successfully think through a way/sequence/method to call on the Weave to achieve that end result.
So a magic-user using a written spell from a spellbook, or being taught how to cast a spell by someone already experienced in its use, is "calling on the Weave" by a particular tried-and-true, already established (by someone else) method of combining incantation with somatic and material components.
In the case of silent "will-force" spells, with no audible incantation, such a magic user is "causing the magic to work" by achieving the right inner mental state - - correctly mentally picturing how to call on the Weave, and correctly mentally picturing what he or she wants the Weave to "do" for them.
A so-called sorcerer, who "thinks of" a magic rather than using a written scroll, material components (and sometimes without using verbal or somatic components, either) must do the same mental work in casting all magics.
If the mind-work goes awry, the magic either "doesn't happen" or magical chaos (a "wand of wonder" effect) results.
It follows that sorcerers who have less than aged, active veteran status will find it vastly easier to cast magics they have seen a magic-user cast, or craft magics to achieve a result they have seen happen previously (lightning striking a tree, a wall being shattered by some force, kindling bursting into flame). If you've seen it, you have a fair stab at duplicating it. If you think fuzzily "I want to be able to knock down yon castle!" you will have VERY little chance of doing that - - but if you can conceive, in detail and correctly, without exaggeration, of forces you have at least some passing familiarity with [a gale-force wind of the sort you've felt, for example], that you can use to make that castle collapse, you have a much better chance of affecting the castle.


So saith Ed, all those years ago (I'd say these notes are from 1981 or 1982). So if your sorcerer has witnessed a successful casting of Spendelaarde's Chaser [that's the correct spelling of the mage's name; "Spendelard" is a TSR simplification], they are far more likely to be able to duplicate it than a sorcerer who's just heard of a sobering-up spell. And a veteran sorcerer will have be more likely to easily and quickly cast a successful Chaser than a low-level novice.
love,
THO
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  03:43:11  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message
One reason (perhaps the only one) that Ed might like E-books.

If all books are E-books, the can be censored or edited for the masses. Therefore print books could be as anti-establishment, or as an act of rebellion since they can speak the true and 'stick it to the man'.

Many young, attractive women like rebels and 'bad boys'.

So in this future...

Ed could be a counterculture rebel in his cabin in the woods with his old fashion printer/printing press. Publishing physical books with the help of curvy, bouncy, perky older teens and twenty year old.

Or Ed can dream it happening. A man can dream.

Hope he doesn't mind the imagery.

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  03:45:51  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

Obviously Ed collects books, but is it ever for value? Or is it a "reader's library"? Does Ed ever hang on to books he doesn't like?
Just curious, so don't reply if you think I'm prying too far. Thanks.
BB


In the episode "Paladin of the Lost Hour" from "The (New) Twilight Zone," Gaspar (Danny Kaye) is asked if he's read all of the books in his private library and he replies to the effect of, "What's the point of having a library if you've read all the books?" Give Harlan Ellison a tip of the chapeau for writing that profound thought; he won a Hugo award for the novelette upon which the teleplay was based.





I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  04:13:33  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Ed, Lady Hooded One:



!!!



I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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ErskineF
Learned Scribe

USA
326 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  07:39:53  Show Profile  Visit ErskineF's Homepage Send ErskineF a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hello again, all.
I bring you a brief and swift response from Ed to ErskineF’s queries: “A few questions for Ed about his amazing 80k tome library. (That just blows me away.)


Thanks much Ed and THO for the quick reply. I especially liked the description of how the books are spread all over the house. I don't feel so bad now, except that, you know, I don't have any where near 80,000 of them. They do seem to multiply like bunny rabbits though.


--
Erskine Fincher
http://forgotten-realms.wandering-dwarf.com/index.php
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14524 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  17:47:08  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
What needs to happen FIRST is that Adobe needs to get together with Microsoft and Apple, and create a 'lock' on pdfs that do not allow them to be uploaded by anyone but the author.

Netbooks can't work because they get redistributed too easily.

Once you download a book, you should not be able to re-upload it to anyone (even to another of your own computers - oh well, buy another copy). The only way that would ever work is if the operating system itself locked you out of file-tampering - and even that isn't 100% foolproof, with things like Linus floating around.

And since Microsoft, Apple, and Adobe are highly unlikely to ever sit down at a table together (Billy Gates NEEDS to control everything, and Steve Jobs isn't a whole lot better), we will never get a universal, LOCKABLE format that is un-pirateable.

The best we can hope for is that one ort two of them (I'm seeing Apple and Adobe) come-out with something so incredibly brilliant that the other is forced to follow suit.

And on the other hand, I hate E-books... I have dozens of novels on my computer I have never read because I can't stand reading on my computer. Having a physical book in your hands is such a different experience (and WotC needs to learn this... but I won't go there), and I can't see a time ever where books will entirely fade from our culture.

But who knows? If they come-up with something that mimics a paper-book, but you can change the content, we may have a winner (they do make paper-thin flexible screens these days).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Mar 2009 17:49:51
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3074 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  17:49:53  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
There are rumors about the next-gen iPod having a huge screen to be able to read e-books on. If that's true, then Apple may do for digital books what they did for digital music.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  17:50:01  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Just a quick question I forgot, which has probably been asked already:
Where is Athlanatar these days? In which Kingdom? How was it conquered (or destroyed)? Is there any correlation between it being the 'Land of the Stag' and Cormyr's stag symbol?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14524 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  17:53:18  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Yes, I am seeing Apple at the forefront, but they will need the major pdf-making software company - Adobe - to help create the software - with those two powerhouses backing a new format, Microsoft would be forced to follow along (after a brief period of them producing a competing, yet inferior, format).

If I can hold a device in my hands that feels like I'm holding a book (and some of that new touch-screen tech is off the shiz), then this 'old dog' may be able to learn a new trick.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gang Falconhand
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
85 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  18:49:20  Show Profile  Visit Gang Falconhand's Homepage  Click to see Gang Falconhand's MSN Messenger address Send Gang Falconhand a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
Where is Athlanatar these days? In which Kingdom? How was it conquered (or destroyed)?



Athalantar was destroyed in 342DR by an orc horde. Secomber was built on the ruins of the capital Hastarl.

"If you have a quality let it define you."
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14524 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  19:57:44  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Also, its hard to pictue it correctly because the entire north was MUCH more heavily-forested at that point in time, and the High Forest itself literally wrapped-around the small kingdom.

The 3e-changes didn't help matters at all - I'm having a hard time figuring out where everything used to be, now that we've lost so much real estate.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Mar 2009 21:23:00
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  20:04:04  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all.
I bring you once again the latest Realmslore from Ed of the Greenwood, this time in response to Markustay's anguished query: "Where is Aralent?"
Ed replies:


Unless someone has added it to the FR maps without my knowledge, Aralent has indeed been a "hidden" town-becoming-a-city of the Realms for all these years. Markustay, I'm not sure what maps you are most comfortable using as a "base," but if you have access to the old Fonstad print FR Atlas (1990 publication, very closely based on my master maps wherever they were available), and you use the projections appearing there rather than the later and wildly distorted 3e maps, you will be able to find, NNW of Assam across the Shining Plains, and due west of the southern end of the Lake of the Long Arm, an indentation or "cove" in the eastern side of the Giant's Run Mountains (a long and wide open valley between the eastward-thrusting shoulders of mountains that frame it to north and south). This is rural ranching and farming (and monster-roamed) country, ungoverned by any central authority.
Spang in the middle of that valley is the market-moot and temple-town of Aralent, unwalled and potentially as lawless as Scornubel - - but moderated from its earliest days by various fortress-temples to good- and neutral-aligned deities (such as Ilmater, Torm, Chauntea, Helm, and others) and their various forces of "temple guards," who police the market.
Early on, there were some fierce battles between these holy soldiers, but things reached such a bloody head that the high priests got together and hammered out a firm alliance, forcing their guards to work together (mixed-faith patrols) and trust each other . . . and over time, Aralent started to grow as more and more traveling traders regarded it as "safe." No one taxes you, and no one interferes with sharp business dealings, but the temple guards swiftly stop violence, blackmail, intimidation, arson, brawls, open thefts and robbery with violence, and the like. Wherefore Aralent is slowly growing larger (as a resupply base, safe haven, and trading-town), despite not having a large populace or industries.
The name "Aralent" comes from a long-dead "prince" of Chessenta (heir to a city-state), who fled would-be assassins who'd gravely wounded him with poisoned weapons, came here, settled into a new life as a stonemason, and eventually built some of the earliest temples. His earliest quarries now form some of the temple cellars.
I mention this because there's a ford of Aralent in Chessenta where he's locally believed to have been murdered by those assassin's, and a tor or crag known as Aralent's Tomb, where a local legend insists a grieving lover buried his remains. Neither of those are on the maps, either, largely because TSR seems to have lost or never received my detailed map of Chessenta (sorry! before you ask, they DO own it, so I can't reproduce it anywhere without their permission).


So saith Ed. Creator of Aralent, the Shining Plains, the Lake of the Long Arm, Chessenta, and . . . well, you get the drift.
love to all,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14524 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2009 :  21:32:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Just... WOW.

That is SO much more then I expected - thank you so much ED (and THO).

Now I REALLY need to do a newer version of the Erlkazar Campaign Map.

And about those Chessenta maps... I don't want them.

I NEED THEM!!!

You don't understand - now that I know they exist, my life will never be complete without them.

Besides, I already say that ALL my maps are WotC property, ergo, their propery just becomes their property all over again.

And since they seem to have lost them, I'd be doing them a favor.

No? Drat... I didn't think that would work....

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Mar 2009 21:49:09
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  00:45:33  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
A quick question for Ed regarding a previously-asked question, and then I'll sit back and be quiet about it for another month or two:

How is progress on getting the Cormyr lineage published?

On a distantly-related note, was that expected announcement from "Wizards of the East" that THO alerted us to some time ago ever made?

That's all. Thank you both, Ed and THO, for your time and answers, which are greatly appreciated by all of us here, and thank you to the site maintainers and moderators for giving us a "here" to be in virtual space.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  02:03:21  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all.
I bring a reply of sorts from Ed to Zandilar, about the in-Realms word for cocktails:


There are many local terms for mixed drinks, from "brightsongs" in Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Waterdeep; to "manyslake" in Waterdeep, Scornubel, Iriaebor, Cormyr, and Sembia; to "ralivarthrem" in Amn and Tethyr; to "ravalankh" in Calimshan and the Tashalar; and "drarraval" in Turmish, the Vilhon and Chessenta.


Ed also sent me replies to Jakk's queries. Re. the Cormyr lineage: little progress at the moment. Re. the announcement: not made yet, more snags have arisen. Patience (hey, I KNOW it's hard. * I * want all of this stuff RIGHT NOW, too!). Yet, I say again, patience. Ed's happily immersed in cranking out a novel right now, anyway . . .
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 09 Mar 2009 02:06:38
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  04:29:41  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hello again, all.
I bring a reply of sorts from Ed to Zandilar, about the in-Realms word for cocktails:


There are many local terms for mixed drinks, from "brightsongs" in Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Waterdeep; to "manyslake" in Waterdeep, Scornubel, Iriaebor, Cormyr, and Sembia; to "ralivarthrem" in Amn and Tethyr; to "ravalankh" in Calimshan and the Tashalar; and "drarraval" in Turmish, the Vilhon and Chessenta.



Cool! I never grow tired of Ed's ability to make up words.

Thank you both for this and the answer on e-books. I found your insights very interesting indeed. I think I'll be sticking to "normal" print publishers for my first novel (if I ever manage to get it finished, 5 years and I've just tossed the last draft and started from scratch! I really don't know how Ed does it...)

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3074 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  04:49:44  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
Speaking of e-Books, WotC is offering a free download of Paul's novel Twilight Falling on the site. Here's the link

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20090309

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
624 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  06:39:32  Show Profile Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message
I just thought of a question for the Ed or THO: (Note- I'm working my way backwards thru the previous years, so if this is asked-and-answered, I apologize)
Where did the Mulhorandi/Untheric folk come from? Was it, in fact Earth? I have always operated under the assumption (Just that, too... with no good reason for me to think this, except that it's a conclusion that I jumped to long ago) that they were from worlds in which the ancient Egyptian and Babylonian/Assyrian cultures were the dominant ones.
No real need for me to know this beyond the burning need to have as much of the Realms 'under glass' as possible.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  10:51:56  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
Well again all

I have been rereading my dragon magazines and just finished the Ecology of the Beholder (issue 76).

Ed can I ask how this fits with the home Realms campaign? What go me thinking was the section regarding the reproduction cycle of beholders flying off to lay eggs somewhere desolate. I have been speculating how in the Realms the Zhentarim manage their broody beholders! (if they manage them at all).
Do they send guards to protect the eggs?
Do they collect the eggs before/after hatching to raise the next generation of loyal beholder slave, err allies?
Do the senior wizards/priests take eggs/young and experiment on them to create new breeds with new powers? (is this how the gauth, death kiss et al became 'born' in the Realms?)

Would be interested to know more thoughts and wild speculation on Zhents and broody beholders.

Thanks

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
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Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  11:11:53  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
As I recall, the Ecology of the Beholder was a hybrid article incorporating material from both Ed's and Roger Moore's noggins. I'd be interested to hear how Ed played beholders in the Realms and any Realms-specific beholder information as he was the first to give them any real substance in the D&D firmament IMO.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
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Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  17:28:39  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate

I just thought of a question for the Ed or THO: (Note- I'm working my way backwards thru the previous years, so if this is asked-and-answered, I apologize)
Where did the Mulhorandi/Untheric folk come from? Was it, in fact Earth? I have always operated under the assumption (Just that, too... with no good reason for me to think this, except that it's a conclusion that I jumped to long ago) that they were from worlds in which the ancient Egyptian and Babylonian/Assyrian cultures were the dominant ones.
No real need for me to know this beyond the burning need to have as much of the Realms 'under glass' as possible.




Eric Boyd, and the post should still be on the message boards somewhere, basically inferred that they did come from Earth but it's never been flat out stated in sourcebooks. Maybe Sage kept the reply or I did in my gatherings of old posts that are stored on Keep's main site.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30403 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  18:09:56  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar

(for example, David Webber is exceedingly difficult to get, at least in Melbourne).


You're in the wrong Melbourne. The Melbourne* I'm in has plenty of David Weber books.

*On the Space Coast of Florida -- if you look at the map, halfway down on the Atlantic side, it juts out just a little -- that's where I am.
And the Melbourne FL/Melbourne Australia joke never gets old!

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14524 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  18:22:41  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
I have reversed-played it, and gave the Imaskari a wee-bit of a Stargate spin, likening them to the Goa'uld.

That means the Pyramid-building culture originated on Toril (actually brought in from elsewhere by highly advanced Gnolls... but thats another story, and a Mystara/Blackmoor tie-in) with the Imaskari, who then spread it to other worlds throughout their colonies... like the one in ancient Mesopotamia. I also have them down as having a colony on Oerth (which gave rise to the Suel Imperium)... I do so love tieing my campaign worlds together.

Anyhow, I don't want to go off on a tangent, but my point was that just because the lore infers that said cultures came from Earth, doesn't mean that there wasn't a little cross-cultural polination going on, and that those people may have come from any number of worlds where the Imaskari established colonies (mostly for slave-taking purposes).

I have done the same for Eastern cultures as well (with Brian James' help) - the Shou did not come from Earth; a group that went through a diaspora became BOTH the Shou of Toril and the ancient Chinese of Earth (making them related, but more like 'distant cousins').

And one last thing - it has been mentioned several times by designers, and I believe at least once by Ed himself, that the 'Earth' of D&D is a seperate world from ours - the D&D mulitverse exists in an entireely seperarte universe, which has its own laws of physics and cosmic structure... and it has it's own Earth, who's Solar System exists with it's own Crystal sphere, quite unbeknowst to its inhabitants (refer to he World of Tiers series of novels for how such a thing is posible).

Edit: @Wooly - I believe he is located in The Merry 'ol Land of Oz. I believe you need a balloon or some Ruby Slippers to get to any place with a decent bookstore from there.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Mar 2009 18:32:57
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