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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Feb 2009 : 22:41:33
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Heya,
I just had a question pop into my head this morning as I was getting up.
Are there any books/stories, plays, ballads/songs, epics/poetry, or legends in the Realms involving homosexual or transgendered protagonists (ie: main characters, not sidekicks and/or comic relief)? I am interested in all races as well as the entire LGBTI spectrum (I = Intersexed for those who don't know) - but, of course, specifically lesbians and bisexual women with female lovers.
I'm curious about Sune too - are there any legends of her taking female mortal lovers? She'd be one of the most important deities involved in the acceptance of LGBTI people amongst the wider population of Toril... (You can throw in any legends of other deities as well, if there are any!)
I know I'm probably asking a lot, but... there you go. 
I haven't said this in a while - but thank you for all the answers you continue to give, and will give in the future. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2009 : 23:01:26
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I vaguely remember something about Laelo in fishnets...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 03:32:12
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Hello again, all. I bring you Ed’s latest replies to scribes’ follow-up Haldoneir questions, as follows . . .
Zandilar, re. Lady Taerenthe: “From which family did this ‘charming’ lady come from originally?”
Ed replies: Lady Taerenthe Haldoneir was born Lady Taerenthe Goldsword. Yes, THOSE Goldswords. :} She was the youngest of three daughters (Beldrara and Lysandlithe are her older sisters, Beldrara the dark-haired, big-boned, subtle-as-an-axe eldest, and Lysandlithe the smirking, soft-voiced, cynically superior epitome of idle, sophisticated noble beauty and malice) of Aundarra Goldsword - - and there have always been rumors that Lysandlithe or perhaps Taerenthe herself might just possibly have been sired by a certain royal Obarskyr (yes, THAT one).
Zandilar, re. this lore: [[Lord Eldaun is “the hidden Haldoneir.” He vanished in a house fire when young, and all of his family except his mother Taerenthe (who spirited him away to be raised ignorant of his true name and heritage by a commoner couple in Westgate who believe she’s a fell mage named “Aumtelarra” rather than a Cormyrean noblewoman) think him dead and gone. Even the War Wizards don’t suspect Eldaun Haldoneir is still alive.]]: “This is a big risk. Does she have some way of ensuring he grows up to meet the standards of the family? Otherwise, she could well end up with a son who doesn't care for nobility or have a taste for intrigue and scheming, or one who cannot be easily controlled (for example - he becomes a paladin of Torm). Nature only accounts for so much in a person.”
Ed replies: You’re quite right. It IS a big risk, and he could well turn out to be less than suitable as her pawn or tool. However, he’s very much an “ace in the hole” to her, and she hopes never to have to use or unmask him. In the meantime, aside from the occasional scrying (via magic items she stole from one of her conquests, Talander Cormaeril, just before House Cormaeril got stripped of their standing and possessions) to check on his health and whereabouts, she has no contact at all with Eldaun, who is entirely unaware of his origins. He’s grown up as “Loryn Naliver,” by the way, and is contentedly apprenticed to a cabinetmaker in Westgate, one Molvur Hallowrand.
Ashe Ravenheart: “Wow, one family generating so many questions! And, not to be outdone, mine's in regards to Lord Eldaun. Being raised away from the family, I'm wondering what he's like. Away from all the politics, is he untainted from the machinations of his blood? Or has hereditary influence reared its ugly head?
Also, I'm assuming that Lady Taerenthe keeps a couple of eyes on him to make sure he stays healthy. Does this mean secret bodyguards and such? Does he suspect anything of his birthright?”
Ed replies: See my answer just above. No, Loryn has no suspicions of his birthright, but he’s beginning to dimly remember grand rooms in his dreams, and certain faces (of his Haldoneir family, of course, plus the eyes - - JUST the eyes - - of the Selgauntan mage [one Ontan Kheloedrikh, who is a secretive, wealthy, VERY discreet, and quite powerful wizard who casts spells for pay, but never hires himself out as an adventurer] who cast three powerful spells on Eldaun, to suppress his memories and self-awareness). These dream-visions are recurring, but unless he accidentally gets caught in some spell-backlash or dispel magic effect, he’s not going to remember much that’s useful about his past.
Like all adolescents, “Loryn” is a bundle of raging hormones, and is increasingly restless . . . and he has always longed to see Cormyr, the Forest Kingdom, where he imagines himself galloping along on a splendid horse with his cloak flowing behind him, a sword at his hip, and Purple Dragons saluting him as he rides by.
Loryn is essentially a nice, honest lad who believes in family (the commoners who raised him), friends, loyalty to both, and following rules. He doesn’t much like what he learns of of the politics of Westgate, but does take personal comfort in thrilling to the notion that he may someday have secrets - - valuable, important ones. Other than that, he hasn’t yet shown any signs of inheriting a love of intrigue. He certainly has no liking for nastiness or willful lawbreaking or family feuds.
And no, there are no family bodyguards. He’s on his own; it’s not even clear what Taerenthe will do if she perceives a threat to him, because she doesn’t know.
So saith Ed. Great questions, scribes (Rinonalyrna Fathomlin, he’s not forgotten yours, just held it over until he can deal with it properly; hopefully tomorrow). I’m just thinking what a wonderful Cormyr sourcebook could have been published, if Ed and other interested Cormyr experts could have collaborated on pages and pages of lore like this. Ah, the might-have-beens . . .
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 03:34:11
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Zandilar, I know there are many tales of Sune taking lovers of both genders, of most intelligent races and their crossbreeds (e.g. half-elves). Ed will of course furnish a definitive reply in the fullness of time.
love,
THO |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 14:44:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
These dream-visions are recurring, but unless he accidentally gets caught in some spell-backlash or dispel magic effect, he’s not going to remember much that’s useful about his past.
Hmmm... Now what kind of event would cause THAT, like, in a few years or so...?
Gomez,
who is curious what remains of these families in the year of the Ageless One. (though maybe that should stay a mystery... it would possibly spoil it for people)
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Edited by - gomez on 07 Feb 2009 15:00:59 |
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe
242 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 16:27:18
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Part of me would LOVE a "Dallas" style fat novel about the deeds (and misdeeds) of just one Cormyrean noble family (Ed? Anyone?), but I strongly suspect the 4e approach would be to leave the fates of these noble houses unresolved in print, for any DM to use as they please. Maybe Ed will sneak hints and mentios of them into future novels (hint hint oh-so-subtle sharp-elbows hint).  |
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 16:13:43
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Ed, as an add-on of Zandilar's question, have there been any notorious gay villians of note you've written anything about?
They can be "closet" gay and either sex is fine but I would like to know of a truly heinous villian currently operating in 1370's if possible.
Thanks |
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 17:39:46
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| Ed, do you know other epic orc characters in Faerun? I'm a big fan of orcs like Oblon Oblivious, Vrakk, Obould, Shield etc. and I can't seem to get enough of them. It'd be cool if you could add up more knowledge to my list, especially the bad-guys. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 19:45:38
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Orc lore?
I would second that request - Orcs had many kingdoms before humans even did, I'd love to get some background on that 'forgotten' people.
I find it sad that human and Elvish history doesn't record much at all about them (other then the conflicts). Perhaps the Dwarves could shed a better light? As for the Orcs themselves, their illiteracy is a major detriment to them keeping any sort of historical records beyond what a tribal 'Skald' might know.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Feb 2009 18:47:13 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 20:54:15
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Hello again, scribes. This time I bring Ed’s response to the last Haldoneir followup query (thus far), this one from Rinonalyrna Fathomlin: “Yeah, I have to admit, I was also wondering where Lady Taerenthe came from, as well. I was also wondering if the daughters and nieces who were sold into slavery were nice (or even "upright") like Flaernd was. Tell us about them.”
Ed replies:
With pleasure, Lady Rinonalyrna. :}
The background first, and personal spotlights on the missing six next time.
In early 1369 DR, Lord and Lady Haldoneir drugged their nieces Borlatha and Daunameire and sold them into slavery, seizing their Suzailan residence and property, and renting out the townhome after selling off most of its contents. The story was spread that they’d eloped, stealing much coin from their kin, with “rakes from Sembia.” This explanation worked so well that less than a month later, they repeated the process with three of their own daughters (Dorlarra, Feaenrelle, and Paerelle), using the same story. This caused more than a few cutting comments along the nobility about how badly the Haldoneirs must treat their daughters, but no outcry - - and more importantly, no Crown or War Wizard investigation.
Lady Haldoneir had already prepared for the latter by purchasing some mind-cloaking magics from a Chessentan wizard known to the Goldswords (and other nobles, wealthy Sembians and Chessentans, and rising folk of Westgate) and used by them to conceal their inward thoughts and schemes for decades; the cost of these small worn items is staggering, but well worth it to wealthy persons planning treason or murder, and keeps their maker (the mage Aldonasker of Airspur [a reclusive, sardonic, well-guarded by gargoyles and worse wizard rumored - - correctly - - to have come from Halruaa], who warns all clients that when he dies, the mind-masking spells he’s cast on the items will abruptly end, a fiction that keeps him safe from treacheries planned by clients) very wealthy.
A short, quiet War Wizard investigation was launched when the eldest daughter, Asmrella Haldoneir, apparently followed her sisters into flight from the arms of her family, and the realm, but ironically, veteran Wizard of War Nolbrand Tharnsilver so understood that anyone would want to be rid of the Haldoneir name and the current heads of the house that he believed the lasses had done just that, taking their cues from each other. His fellow War Wizards, to the highest levels, did not think the matters being investigated were grave enough to warrant forcibly taking Lord or Lady Haldoneir into custody, removing their magical cloakings, and mind-reaming them - - with all the uproar among other nobles that would cause . . . or the further uproar that would attend the possible execution of the senior Haldoneirs and stripping the family of its grace. Certain Highknights were asked to check with Harpers they knew, operating in Westgate, Sembia, and some Inner Sea ports, to watch and listen for any trace of the Haldoneir lasses, but thus far none has turned up - - and, as they say, weightier matters have occupied the eyes and ears of the Crown of Cormyr.
So saith Ed. Who will return, as promised, with a look at each of the missing six Haldoneir females, on the morrow.
love to all,
THO
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 22:59:35
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
With pleasure, Lady Rinonalyrna. :}
The background first, and personal spotlights on the missing six next time.
In early 1369 DR, Lord and Lady Haldoneir drugged their nieces Borlatha and Daunameire and sold them into slavery, seizing their Suzailan residence and property, and renting out the townhome after selling off most of its contents. The story was spread that they’d eloped, stealing much coin from their kin, with “rakes from Sembia.” This explanation worked so well that less than a month later, they repeated the process with three of their own daughters (Dorlarra, Feaenrelle, and Paerelle), using the same story. This caused more than a few cutting comments along the nobility about how badly the Haldoneirs must treat their daughters, but no outcry - - and more importantly, no Crown or War Wizard investigation.
Did the Haldoniers offer any proof at all of their claims? (And if they did, then was the proof adequately tested? It seems to me that even a little divination on the whereabouts of the girls (nothing cast directly on the Haldoneir patriarch and matriarch themselves, just their nieces and daughters) would have given lie to the alibi the family produced.)
I also can't help but reflexively thing that had the five missing been nephews and sons the whole thing would have been treated differently. (Cormyr is patriarchal enough for me to think this.)
quote:
A short, quiet War Wizard investigation was launched when the eldest daughter, Asmrella Haldoneir, apparently followed her sisters into flight from the arms of her family, and the realm, but ironically, veteran Wizard of War Nolbrand Tharnsilver so understood that anyone would want to be rid of the Haldoneir name and the current heads of the house that he believed the lasses had done just that, taking their cues from each other.
If the family is that bad (which it is), I'd be suspecting foul play first. Shame I wasn't the war wizard investigating.  |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 02:23:25
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| Ed, thank you so much for this great lore--I can't wait to hear the answers to the other part of my query. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 02:24:36
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Hi again, all.
Zandilar, I'm going to have to disagree with you about this:
"I also can't help but reflexively think that had the five missing been nephews and sons the whole thing would have been treated differently. (Cormyr is patriarchal enough for me to think this.)"
Now, if THE sole heir of a noble house, male or female, disappeared, the War Wizards would be all over it, yes.
However, the way Ed's explained (and showed, in play) Cormyr to us, over the years, sons and nephews OFTEN go missing - - gallivanting, adventuring, "finding themselves," sowing their wild oats; whatever you want to call it, AND, yes, rebelling against parental authority - - during their youthful years. So the "treated differently" would probably have only been to ignore the whole thing (again, unless a sole heir or by far the most likely heir, like an elder son when the other children are more than a decade younger, or children who are Azoun IV's bastard offspring, are involved).
In this case, Ed's clearly said that the eldest child (the older son, and heir) has stayed put, so you can be darned sure the War Wizards are watching him VERY closely now. If either Lord or Lady Haldoneir ever talks or even hints too freely about what they've done, they'll do more than just "watch." Of course, I'm suspecting that Laspeera (and Vangey first, Caladnei later, but Lasp's the continuity, here) is waiting for House Haldoneir to take that one step too far, so she can catch them in something that disgusts even the most ardently anti-Obarskyr of their fellow Cormyrean nobles - - and THEN the Crown will strip them of their nobility, arrest and probably execute the heads of the house, and so on.
Of course, Ed will probably say more. Especially about why simple magical tracings weren't done (or weren't effective). So off your post goes to him, for THE expert's testimony . . .
love,
THO |
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 03:23:16
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Heya,
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Zandilar, I'm going to have to disagree with you about this:
"I also can't help but reflexively think that had the five missing been nephews and sons the whole thing would have been treated differently. (Cormyr is patriarchal enough for me to think this.)"
Now, if THE sole heir of a noble house, male or female, disappeared, the War Wizards would be all over it, yes.
I did say it was reflexive... Meaning that I hadn't really thought, just felt... If that makes sense.
quote:
However, the way Ed's explained (and showed, in play) Cormyr to us, over the years, sons and nephews OFTEN go missing - - gallivanting, adventuring, "finding themselves," sowing their wild oats; whatever you want to call it, AND, yes, rebelling against parental authority - - during their youthful years. So the "treated differently" would probably have only been to ignore the whole thing (again, unless a sole heir or by far the most likely heir, like an elder son when the other children are more than a decade younger, or children who are Azoun IV's bastard offspring, are involved).
There's a difference between going off gallivanting and going missing without a trace. The former implies several things, most importantly, they left a trail that could be followed, and also that they eventually come back, repentant or unrepentant. They're not just there one day, gone the next.
quote:
In this case, Ed's clearly said that the eldest child (the older son, and heir) has stayed put, so you can be darned sure the War Wizards are watching him VERY closely now. If either Lord or Lady Haldoneir ever talks or even hints too freely about what they've done, they'll do more than just "watch." Of course, I'm suspecting that Laspeera (and Vangey first, Caladnei later, but Lasp's the continuity, here) is waiting for House Haldoneir to take that one step too far, so she can catch them in something that disgusts even the most ardently anti-Obarskyr of their fellow Cormyrean nobles - - and THEN the Crown will strip them of their nobility, arrest and probably execute the heads of the house, and so on.
It doesn't make any sense to me that they would have to wait so long, and that the house would have to go to a certain extreme (something past kidnapping, slavery, and murder) before anything would be done about them. It would be like having to wait for a serial murderer to murder someone in front of the police before they could be charge with anything.
Going back to a point I made in a previous post, surely House Haldonier would had to have offered some authority some proof that the girls had eloped with Sembians before they'd be allowed to take their property? |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 06:18:23
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Zandilar's comment touch upon an issue I have found rather dififcult to deal with, and something that was recently suggested by someone and shot down by me for that specific reason: that it is hard to have, in a good society, a person who is openly a a villain to the PCs.
If the PCs *know* someone is a villain, then how is it posisble to not have that be realized in a good-aligned society?
I can imagine that in Cormyr the whole 'nobility vs the Crown' political system is a means by which such villains can get away - as long as they cover up and/or deny their crimes, but how does this work in the Dalelands (not counting Scardale)?
Would it be possible for a mayor, a burgher, or a landholder to stay in his or her seat, a clear villain, yet somehow be untouchable? I would actually give the Burgher the better chance, due to the system in which they are chosen, but would a family as evil as Haldoneir be possible?
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 09:48:10
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I was wondering once what would happen if one or two priests of Hoar journeyed to Cormyr to do their god work. Now I know. They would come knocking on Haldoneirs door. (Assuming of course that Hoar sent them a vision about what the family had done)
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If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 13:36:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
Heya,
......
It doesn't make any sense to me that they would have to wait so long, and that the house would have to go to a certain extreme (something past kidnapping, slavery, and murder) before anything would be done about them. It would be like having to wait for a serial murderer to murder someone in front of the police before they could be charge with anything.
Going back to a point I made in a previous post, surely House Haldonier would had to have offered some authority some proof that the girls had eloped with Sembians before they'd be allowed to take their property?
Tho, is the reason the royal hammer has not came down on them yet the likeyhood of Azoun fathering Lysandlithe or Taerenthe ? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 20:07:48
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Hi, Zandilar. THO sent me your last few posts - - along with the missives from everyone else these last few days, too, and to Rinonalyrna Fathomlin: you’re VERY welcome. I’m probably going to be delayed on the Haldoneir lasses reply for a day or so, thanks to a family emergency, but I WILL reply. Promise.
Zandilar, you posted: “There's a difference between going off gallivanting and going missing without a trace. The former implies several things, most importantly, they left a trail that could be followed, and also that they eventually come back, repentant or unrepentant. They're not just there one day, gone the next.”
and you also posted: “Going back to a point I made in a previous post, surely House Haldonier would had to have offered some authority some proof that the girls had eloped with Sembians before they'd be allowed to take their property?”
Now, these are good points, but they’re rooted in modern-day thinking; the way things happen in our real-world, “enlightened” societies. I’m afraid they don’t hold true for Cormyr.
In some cases, there ISN’T any difference between going off gallivanting and going missing without a trace, except in hindsight, after the fact (as you say, “they eventually come back, reprentant or unrepentant”).
First off, who’s doing the tracing? If the family doesn’t care to, and the overstretched War Wizards don’t already have the particular noble under watch because they’ve done something suspicious, and the departing nobles don’t WANT to leave a trail, they don’t - - and NO ONE does any tracing.
If you’re the head of a noble family and you want to trace your departed kin, you send out servants or hire adventurers. Or you can ask your factor (trade agent) to tell the trade agents he or she customarily deals with, in various places the departed one is suspected of heading to, to keep an eye out for them. The effectiveness of this last approach is best illustrated in real-world terms: how many visitors to, say, Melbourne did you personally happen to notice arriving or leaving again in the last month or so? Or how many people who passed through your neighbourhood did you notice and get a good look at? None of them felt the need to seek you out and “check in” with you, did they?
One impression often unavoidably left by all the attention on Vangerdahast’s machinations in discussions here and in the novels I write, and elsewhere, is that Cormyr is some sort of police state wherein the War Wizards SEE ALL. Nothing could be further from the truth. Vangey certainly WANTS to see all, but even at the heights of its power, the War Wizards, Highknights, and various “open and official” Crown agents are all far too few to watch a quarter of what they want to watch, let alone conduct in-depth snoopings they “know” need doing. They are frantically busy, and falling farther and farther behind on watching over things with each passing day. Not to mention that nobles don’t like being watched and often have the resources to do things behind quite a few layers of closed doors, and some rights to privacy that no one else in the realm enjoys.
So, let’s face it, the disappearances of six non-heirs of a low-profile noble family, NOT happening all at once, just aren’t going to attract much attention . . . until long after the disappearances, when folk start to realize they haven’t see this or that person, and wonder where they went. Then and only then are casual questions going to be asked, by those same folk. There ARE no authorities demanding full answers to pointed questions, or demanding proof. You posted: “surely House Haldonier would had to have offered some authority some proof that the girls had eloped with Sembians before they'd be allowed to take their property.”
Nope. First of all, it’s FAMILY property, under Cormyrean law, not the property of the individuals - - because the deed to that townhouse was acquired by the grandparents of the two nieces, and never transferred to the nieces. It customarily isn’t, unless the family owes them a debt and they agree to accept a building as payment. It’s retained by the family, because occasionally such transfers will attract tax or need to be registered, and it’s easier to just avoid all that. So the Crown really has no interest or say in the matter. For ANY noble family. Until a dispute arises - - and even then, the Crown’s first move is usually going to be to try to get the disputing parties to work something out between themselves, rather than step into the fight; the Crown is trying NOT to rile all the nobles, remember?
Secondly, nobles have rights and privileges other Cormyreans don’t - - and one of them is the right to move around as they please. The realm has no customs or border agents per se, although cities have guards at their gates, ports have inspectors on the wharves, and border areas have Purple Dragon patrols - - but they’re looking for brigands, monsters, and armed invaders or raiders, not to pick fights with nobles. Ship cargoes face tax-collector inspections (a few of them, usually only during wartime or when someone’s suspicions have been aroused), but no one is going to keep tabs on the comings and goings of nobles (and a “usual” amount and number of accompanying servants and belongings) except curious War Wizards or Highknights (again, when their suspicions have been aroused). Nobles travel within the kingdom, and into and out of it, far more than most other citizens. Many Cormyrean nobles go to Sembia to do business and to “play” (pursue amusements they don’t want to be seen pursuing at home, or can’t enjoy in Suzail as much as Selgaunt, or are tired of doing in Suzail with the same old faces), often and sometimes on a regular basis. So noble lasses going to Sembia just isn’t something all that remarkable.
If a friend of one of the vanished nieces asked, Lady Haldoneir might say in a bored tone, “Well, dear, off they went to Sembia - - YOU know why; oh yes, I’ve heard some of the tales about Faerdorn and his well-oiled handsome lads - - and this time decided they wanted to stay for the time being, or at least a season or two, and we couldn’t just let the house go to WASTE, now could we? They said they were tired of it all, mind, so they’ll not be wanting to step back into the same old house with the same old furnishings. When they return - - IF they return - - we’ll settle them in something. It’s not as if we don’t have DOZENS of suitable residences, right here in Suzail!”
Some nobles depart with great fanfare, and send messages home; some just go. Some are impulsive, some are very private and don’t WANT nosy family-paid spies or retainers following them, some have done something unlawful and get scared and just want to get far away, fast, and some have quarreled violently with their parents. (Some nobles become “remittance exiles” who stay away for years or even forever, in return for their families sending them funds so they can live idle lives elsewhere; “stay away, out of sight and out of family affairs, and we’ll go on paying you.” I’ve used this particular circumstance repeatedly for PC adventurers, by the way; it gives them an income but prohibits them from entering certain areas of the Realms - - meaning that if they DO want to “go where they shouldn’t,” they have to wear disguises or sneak in, or both, to avoid losing the flow of coins they live on. A few receivers of remittances even get sent missions or tasks they have to do for the family, or risk getting shorted or cut off in future remittances; building in adventures for a PC remittance receiver.)
So in short: no, the disappearances aren’t being treated unusually.
If all six lasses vanished at once and the Haldoneirs went shrieking to the Crown, YES; the realm would be turned upside down looking for them.
If lads rather than lasses vanished, and the family raised no outcry, the disappearances would simply be ignored; it’s EXPECTED that young noblemen want to “see the world” before being forced to settle down into overseeing family businesses and the like.
If a family heir was noticed to be missing, War Wizards would be interested, BUT (and here’s the last point) they can’t just go mind-reaming everyone. For one thing, doing so is illegal in most circumstances, unless royal permission is received (and Azoun wasn’t in the habit of freely giving it). For another, many nobles have acquired mind-protecting magic, some of which “slaps back” at anyone trying a probe (the War Wizard) and some of which either foils probings or so damages the mind of the protected person that they are driven (permanently or temporarily) raving mad. As in, so actively mad that it can’t be concealed from the public. Again, other nobles will collectively take a VERY dim view of this, and there are many nobles who dislike the Obarskyrs or the powers of the Crown already, and won’t miss an opportunity to hamper them. To say nothing of nobility in Marsember and Arabel, with a goodly part of the commoners in those places backing them to the proverbial hilt, who are watching for excuses to rebel or protest or demand War Wizard or Crown powers be stripped away.
Faced with balancing civil war against possible (not even likely) bad fates of six spoiled, barely-heard-of-them young noblewomen, the average courtier or War Wizard isn’t going to come down on the side of the Haldoneirs, other than to murmur, “I wonder if it’s time we took a closer look at the House of the Wyrmdeath . . . hmmm . . .”
Heh. I’m sure this is going to spur further questions and possibly debate on your part, and that of other scribes. Feel free; you know where to find me (just the far side of the lovely Lady Hooded, which is generally a pleasant place to be :} ).
So saith Ed. (And nudge nudge wink wink yourself, old friend and Realms creator.)
love to all,
THO
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capnvan
Senior Scribe
USA
592 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 21:28:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I’m probably going to be delayed on the Haldoneir lasses reply for a day or so, thanks to a family emergency, but I WILL reply. Promise.
Sincere hopes that this is not related to your wife again, Ed. And that emergency isn't as dire as it always sounds.
Sorry for your troubles. Keep well. |
"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing." |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 23:49:51
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Yes, my good wishes, and come back to us as soon as you can.
Which is when you'll see my latest question, tossed onto the pile.
It is:
Can you please give us the names (and maybe a single line about where based, and what cargoes they usually carry) of four or five caravan merchants who'd be well known on the caravan routes between Cormyr and the Moonsea, or Cormyr and Sembia, or Sembia and the Moonsea? Just names I can sprinkle merchants' conversations with, so some of the same names come up again and again and it all "sounds real."
Thanks!
BB |
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe
242 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 23:57:03
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Hi, Ed and THO. I echo the good wishes, and (heh) like Blueblade, bring yet another question for your ever-higher piles of questions. This one is pretty easy.
For a TYPICAL inn maidservant or manservant in Suzail
AND (same question)
for one in any of the Dales,
I know they can tell an outlander from far away by they accent with which they speak Common, but how good are they at correctly identifying the general whereabouts of where someone stopping at the inn came from?
I know some will be good at this and some bad, but what's typical?
Thanks! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 23:59:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I’m probably going to be delayed on the Haldoneir lasses reply for a day or so, thanks to a family emergency, but I WILL reply. Promise.
I hope it's nothing too serious, my Lady? Wishing you well and a safe return. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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krownhunter07
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 00:56:45
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Hello Ed, I'm new to posting here at the Keep, but I'd really like to know a few things you might have a mind to answer for me...
Firstly, do you know, or could you come up with, any information about where Evermeet is now and what is around it? Still an island or part of a larger area? Friends, enemy's, a little history about what's happened since the Spellplague?
Also, any details on the other Elf blades?
Thanks in advance! |
I only hope to die the way I lived. |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 01:15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by krownhunter07
Hello Ed, I'm new to posting here at the Keep, but I'd really like to know a few things you might have a mind to answer for me...
Firstly, do you know, or could you come up with, any information about where Evermeet is now and what is around it? Still an island or part of a larger area? Friends, enemy's, a little history about what's happened since the Spellplague?
Also, any details on the other Elf blades?
Thanks in advance!
Welcome to Candlekeep, krownhunter! While waiting for your reply, you might want to start with p. 132 of the 4e Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 04:28:57
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quote:
Originally posted by krownhunter07
Also, any details on the other Elf blades?
Well, the Crownblade is back in the hands of the ruler of Myth Drannor. As for the Warblade, it's been bonded to a rapscallion half-elven ranger from Aglarond who stumbled upon it while helping some adventurers free Shadowdale from the oppressive army of Zhents, Cyricists, Sharrans and drow. ( )
The Artblade, I believe, is still missing. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 11:02:39
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and that blade is likely under a huge NDA.....
oh and will there be a new Villian for 4e realms with the letters NDA in its name??? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:59:40
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The National Disaster Alliance?
I had an idea for a post-Spellplague group that was in charge of distributing 'relief efforts' from Cormyr and Luruar to 'less fortunate' regions. The group would have 'gone bad' after awhile, basically selling the stuff on the black market, rather then handing it out to the needy as they are supposed to.
I'm thinking the involvement of some consortium - the Zhents are out - but perhaps the Rundeen or some-such - acting like the 'warlords' in Africa are with the Red Cross stuff, or like Sadam Hussein's generals did with the relief sent into Iraq (having just seent he BBC special about him, it inspired me with this plotline).
Also, some of the less-stellar info that has become known about FEMA comes to mind.
Anyway, I don't want to detract from Ed's thread, but you just gave me a name for my group (and using 'NDA' in-game is just too much fun to pass up). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 19:24:09
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Use Steven Schend's joke for the NDA --
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
If you were referring to the Vaults of Uvaeren, they're under guard by a new Trio Nefarious--Naarlayx, Dhoarkath, and Axarark, three demons bound solely for the purposes of keeping those things secret. 
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 22:54:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Use Steven Schend's joke for the NDA --
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
If you were referring to the Vaults of Uvaeren, they're under guard by a new Trio Nefarious--Naarlayx, Dhoarkath, and Axarark, three demons bound solely for the purposes of keeping those things secret.
Heh. I actually canonised that in my Realms when Steven first mentioned it.
I've still got players who don't realise what it really is in reference to.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hawkfeather
Seeker
Brazil
64 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 00:48:02
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Hello, Ed! One of my players asked me this morning about the relationships between the cities of the Vast. He also wants to know more about how the laws of one city affects the others (specifically Calaunt, Tantras, Ravens Bluff and Procampur - but feel free to share more information about other cities!! Please!!). For example, if a someone commits a crime in one city and hides in another one, the criminal could be sent back to be judged? A representant of the offended city could enter in another city to arrest the criminal?
Could you help me give him the answers?
Thanks in advance! |
Edited by - Hawkfeather on 11 Feb 2009 00:59:55 |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2009)
Topic Locked
