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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29707 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  06:21:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all. Ed tells me that he's NDA-bound not to answer Pamela's question (brought to this thread by gomez, and second/thirded by Zandilar), but says it's all right from me to reveal what my character learned during play - - which admittedly isn't all that much.
At certain times, "when the stars are right" (about once a year, or once every two years, or so; we Knights were never able to learn precisely how often these certain times happened, though there ARE celestial "signs" linked to them) the ruins of the Keep become the place of release of magical energy and memories from elsewhere (I'm guessing from beings who have died on other planes or parallel "Prime Material Planes," but that's just my guess, and various deities, powerful divine servitors, and long-lived individuals (Larloch, Elminster, etc.) come to the ruins to acquire the energy/feed off of it/revel in being in its presence (hence the dancing).
Formerly many creatures came to the ruins at these special times, including nagas, illithids, and other psionically-gifted creatures, but over the years Garagos and other rapacious attendees have slain so many arrivals that very few come to the ruins (or still survive, to come to the ruins), that it's down to those three deities and a few other lurking creatures who hide from the deities (for some reason not known to us, because Ed hasn't so much as hinted why, only those three deities were ever drawn to the ruins). Apparently the energies can be used for healing, recharging magic items, and restoring/fixing magics, by those who know how (and written procedures for doing so are hidden at Candlekeep, somewhere in a library controlled by the Zhentarim, somewhere in a tome possessed by a noble family of Waterdeep, somewhere "ditto" in Halruaa, and somewhere "ditto" in Thay).
So the three deities aren't meeting up out of friendship, or in some sort of pact, or as lovers; they're each there independently, "after the same thing."
Hope that helps!
love to all,
THO



Can these deities or anyone else acquire those memories? And is there any possibility that the energies and memories -- either all or some of them -- come from elsewhere in time?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  07:38:11  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Formerly many creatures came to the ruins at these special times, including nagas, illithids, and other psionically-gifted creatures...
Ed, can you tell us a little more about what these creatures did in the Keep?
quote:
Apparently the energies can be used for healing, recharging magic items, and restoring/fixing magics, by those who know how (and written procedures for doing so are hidden at Candlekeep, somewhere in a library controlled by the Zhentarim, somewhere in a tome possessed by a noble family of Waterdeep, somewhere "ditto" in Halruaa, and somewhere "ditto" in Thay).
Also, what can you tell us about these "written procedures?"

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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  13:18:57  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
So the three deities aren't meeting up out of friendship, or in some sort of pact, or as lovers; they're each there independently, "after the same thing."



How intriguing.

*sigh* Wish you (both) could tell us more!

ETA:
quote:
Originally posted by uaintjak

Maybe those three in particular need to feed off the energies to retain their godhood (or needed it in the past). Jergal and Garagos were fading gods, their portfolios and worshippers superseded by others, and Sharess couldn't have started off with much power, since she was an aspect of Shar that split off and sought independence (as I understand it).

Perhaps the energies allowed them to survive where other dieties might have faded.



Quick Cliff Notes version of Sharess's origin:

  • Bast came into the Realms. Goddess of cats and pleasure, sometime lover of the wargod Anhur, had a particular hatred of Set.

  • Bast absorbed the beast cult deity Felidae, a very minor deity of cats.

  • Bast came across the captive Zandilar the Dancer, a Yuirwood deity of love, more physical than romantic though, who had taken it upon herself to distract Vhaeraun while the rest of her pantheon fought the other drow gods. Vhaeraun had seen through her rouse and was in the process of absorbing her, but with Bast's help, Zandilar was able to break free of Vhaeraun. Unfortunately, Zandilar the Dancer was fataly injured by the encounter, and voluntarily agreed to merge with Bast.

  • Sometime after that, Bast/Zandilar was a fading deity who was coming under the influence of Shar, her pleasures becoming increasingly dark. I think it was about this time that she became known as Sharess. Shar's faithful promoted her as the "harbinger of the loss", and spread the lie that Sharess was merely an aspect of Shar.

  • During the Time of Troubles, Sharess could be found in Calimport, inhabiting the body of the Pasha's (think that was his title) favorite concubine, having a rather decadent time. Shar turned up to kill and absorb Sharess once and for all, but Sune came along, conveniently with a chalice of water from the Evergold, which she then proceeded to douse Sharess in, saving Sharess from Shar, and banishing the darkness that had engulfed her, restoring her radiant beauty (Sharess's beauty is only outmatched by Sune herself).



Yes, that was the cliff notes version.

Which begs a question, Ed... Where did Sune get access to the Evergold if she was trapped in Avatar form on the Prime? Is there a "branch" or "tributary" or even "spring" of that river on the Prime?

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 06 Oct 2009 14:03:41
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Morioculus
Acolyte

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  15:18:07  Show Profile Send Morioculus a Private Message
Hi Mr. Greenwood!
I've had a couple questions about The Temptation of Elmister that I've been trying to find out...but with no luck.
Ok, first off I've been trying to find out which region Karsus' treasure trove is located. I've read your book DOZENS of times(beginning to end) and all I've gotten is that it MIGHT be in the Gulthmere Forest. I've also been told it's in one of the forests in the Great Dales in Impiltur. My question is: where exactly is it?
My second question is, can I have a bit of background info on Saeraede Lyonora? So far I have a theory that she's Netherese and that(drawing from what I read about the Netherese mage "Ander" in The Making of a Mage) she was able to pass beyond death and become a wraithlike being who feeds off life-forces.
Thanks Mr. Greenwood!

Confutatis maledictus, flammis acribus addictus.
Etiam sanato vulnere cicatrix manet.
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WarlockII
Seeker

50 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  19:16:43  Show Profile  Visit WarlockII's Homepage Send WarlockII a Private Message
What does the spellplague do to Realmspace and the other continents of toril, is there a complete post spellplague map of toril yet?


Or in other words is there a somewhat complete Geographic text of what effects the spellplague had?
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  20:01:41  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Zandilar, Wooly, and Sage: I really can't say more.
Other than to rephrase for clarity: anyone can gain memories just by being there, and those who know how (that's where the written procedures come in) can gain power...hence the presence of the illithids and others...
love to all,
THO
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  20:51:25  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar:
... conveniently with a chalice of water from the Evergold, which she then proceeded to douse Sharess in, saving Sharess from Shar, and banishing the darkness that had engulfed her, restoring her radiant beauty


Hmm... any chance this was inspired by the Wizard of Oz? Because this really sounds like the opposite of what happened to the Wicked Witch of the West.

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  00:02:06  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by WarlockII

What does the spellplague do to Realmspace and the other continents of toril, is there a complete post spellplague map of toril yet?

Or in other words is there a somewhat complete Geographic text of what effects the spellplague had?
While Ed may have something to add...

I'd imagine that, in the Realms, theories abound re: the Spellplague and its impact on both Faerűn, and Toril itself. But just like most historical texts, I doubt any could completely and accurately describe just what, exactly, had happened. With such significant changes to many regions, both across the Realms and beyond, as well as fundamental alterations to the very basis of the Weave, the cosmology, and the power and position of deities, it would likely take centuries of searching, study, and experimentation to properly construct a sound theory that takes all of this, into account.

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Edited by - The Sage on 07 Oct 2009 00:03:34
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Bakra
Senior Scribe

613 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  13:58:16  Show Profile Send Bakra a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Zandilar, Wooly, and Sage: I really can't say more.
Other than to rephrase for clarity: anyone can gain memories just by being there, and those who know how (that's where the written procedures come in) can gain power...hence the presence of the illithids and others...
love to all,
THO


So,the written procedures could help an individual locate and gain a particular skill set. For example, a 1st edition fighter who wanted to cast some wizardly spells without wasting time on all the training. This fighter could use the procedures to find a Netherese wizards memory of apprenticeship then absorb the ‘good stuff’. While a character who stumbled into the area could end up with a wild talent for a limited amount of time or permanently end up with an individual’s lifetime in their noggin .
You know, being a devious person, I would have a false set of written procedures that would either not work or work all too well. (Nothing like absorbing the final moments of a violent death to teach a thief a lesson)
Would I be correct in assuming the procedures vary by location?

I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29707 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  15:27:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Zandilar, Wooly, and Sage: I really can't say more.
Other than to rephrase for clarity: anyone can gain memories just by being there, and those who know how (that's where the written procedures come in) can gain power...hence the presence of the illithids and others...
love to all,
THO


So,the written procedures could help an individual locate and gain a particular skill set. For example, a 1st edition fighter who wanted to cast some wizardly spells without wasting time on all the training. This fighter could use the procedures to find a Netherese wizards memory of apprenticeship then absorb the ‘good stuff’. While a character who stumbled into the area could end up with a wild talent for a limited amount of time or permanently end up with an individual’s lifetime in their noggin .
You know, being a devious person, I would have a false set of written procedures that would either not work or work all too well. (Nothing like absorbing the final moments of a violent death to teach a thief a lesson)
Would I be correct in assuming the procedures vary by location?




I would assume that you'd not get a person's entire set of memories, or an entire skillset like going from apprentice to archmage in one evening. I'd assume it would be a more dreamlike thing, with random flashes of insight mixed with a whole lot of nonsensical stuff.

So Bahb the Fighter might have a memory of casting -- and perhaps the ability to cast one time -- a single spell, while Tahm the Mage standing next to him instead remembers a nasty marital argument, and Ralf the Thief, standing on the other side of Bahb, remembers the way past a trap into a treasure hoard that might or might not still exist.

At least, that's how I'd set it up. And considering some of the things we've seen from Ed before, like Weave Whispers and Kings' Tears, I'm thinking that's prolly similar to how Ed does it.

Of course, all this brings another question to my mind: Why does this happen at this one location?

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Oct 2009 15:29:51
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  15:48:31  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. Wooly has it quite right: random single memories flood into the minds of creatures in the ruins at the right times: "wisps of remembrance" is how Ed described it.
So NO, Bakra, no one can gain any sort of "set" of memories - - nor would experiencing someone else's memories ever confer a class skill (they could help someone who can already cast the spell control or cast it more precisely, and/or impart valuable pointers/warnings of what can go wrong). They can impart a "knack" (throw the weighted rope PAST someone, not at them, to make it more likely they can grab it).
The written procedures are personal accounts written by various long-dead individuals of just when to go to the ruins and just what to do to gain the memories or powers; written "treasure maps" if you will (remember the "stagger stagger crawl crawl" scene from YELLOWBEARD?). So a Red Wizard might learn the exact spot where a long-ago Red Wizard went to gain some memories or power.
Ed has never revealed whose memories these are, or where they come from, but they DO seem to be from Toril or a similar world, and largely concern humans (or rememberers whose thoughts "feel" human, and who saw and interacted with other humans, as seen in the memories).
So it's a series of random boons, not "count on it" character boosts.
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 07 Oct 2009 15:49:51
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  15:55:10  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

The written procedures are personal accounts written by various long-dead individuals of just when to go to the ruins and just what to do to gain the memories or powers; written "treasure maps" if you will (remember the "stagger stagger crawl crawl" scene from YELLOWBEARD?).
Is there any chance you can, at the very least, share some names of these "long-dead individuals," Ed?

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  16:02:45  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Heh. Like starving men, or hungry sharks, we rush in to pounce on new Realmslore.
THO, what of memories being imparted by direct touch, by dying characters? I seem to recall that happening in Realmsplay (from Ed's comments at a GenCon or other). True?
Thanks!
BB
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29707 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  16:39:09  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

Heh. Like starving men, or hungry sharks, we rush in to pounce on new Realmslore.


I'd imagine that THO and Ed are sometimes amused by what bits we suddenly pounce on.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  16:48:46  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

Heh. Like starving men, or hungry sharks, we rush in to pounce on new Realmslore.


I'd imagine that THO and Ed are sometimes amused by what bits we suddenly pounce on.

Agreed. Sometimes, I think it might be more appropriate to direct questions about any minor tidbits to Ed via email. But then, I think back to previous conversations, and recall that most scribes usually love dissecting the little bits like this, so I ask here instead.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  18:55:21  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
Heh. Starving man (or hungry shark) right here, seconding what Sage just said: I LOVE the tidbits. Ed's tidbits always get me to thinking about adventure ideas (intrigue, power groups, things not yet revealed . . . yes!!!).
However, I have a straight-ahead question for Ed and THO (yes, again :} ).
In Cormyr, I iknow cities have sewers and drainage, and suspect the best farms do, too (irrigation), but what about the small, unfortified villages along the roads? How is sanitation handled? The "honey wagon" trundling wastes out to some remote stinkpile?
Thanks!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  19:03:02  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Heh. Off to Ed that question goes, BA, but I can tell you that although Suzail DOES have sewers, it definitely has "honey wagons" (in that part of the Realms, they're known as "nightsoil carts") that take the chamberpot-emptyings of the less wealthy neighbourhoods out of the city to middens.
We Knights have had several adventuresome encounters with various of those wagons and their drovers.
love,
THO
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Bahgtru
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2009 :  01:07:58  Show Profile  Visit Bahgtru's Homepage Send Bahgtru a Private Message
To Ed and THO,

Do Piergeiron, Madieron, and Texter find it a challenge to balance their patronage of Tyr and their roles in leadership and law and order in a city like Waterdeep with such diversity that has people operating on behalf the city, that might not always operate on the up and up or in the confines of the law? How do they view someone like Elaith Craulnober who acts for himself outside the law but usually Waterdeep's interests are served in the process? What kind of challenges does that pose as Paladins of Tyr?

How do each of them view the Knightly orders operating in Waterdeep like the Knights of Samular and the Order of the Even Handed and visa versa? What interaction do they have with the Church of Tyr in the city and what expectations does the church place on them? Do the three of them converse often on Tyr or ideas on advancing the cause of justice on Tyr's behalf? Do they have similar views in their beliefs?

I would imagine the Piergeiron's duties prevent it, but does the church ever call on Madieron or Texter for specific tasks or assignments?

Thank you again for considering my questions.

Edited by - Bahgtru on 08 Oct 2009 13:52:18
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2009 :  22:57:20  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. I've passed the latest posts on to Ed as usual, but because Bahgtru's most recent question is very close to queries Ed answered for a TSR designer "back in the day" and I have a copy of Ed's words, I can provide the beginnings of an answer, using Ed's own words:


Tyr is the god of justice: that is, the even-handed application of laws, rules, and codes (the three things being differentiated by the sorts of penalties imposed for breaking them) within a society. In a polytheistic setting such as the Realms, it is important to "stand back" from real-life Judeo-Christian views of "absolute good" and "one correct way to behave and all others are shades of sin or human failing or succumbing to temptation," and think of things as intelligent beings OF THE REALMS do.
That is: paladins of Tyr who are part of the government of Waterdeep see the continuance of a cosmopolitan, tolerant, prosperous port city as good in itself, and see their role as twofold: continually seeing that the laws/rules are the "best" possible to keep Waterdeep thriving and a "good" place to live (that is, a place people WANT to reside in, and see themselves benefitting by doing so, to the point of being loyal to Waterdeep and willing to obey its rules and pay its taxes), and seeing that those laws are administered fairly and impartially.
Or to take a step closer in detail: the laws have to be continually adjusted and refined so as to serve the populace (not just its most wealthy and powerful) as best they can, and if there are instances where treating citizens differently from each other is desirable for making Waterdeep better, that's fine IF THE LAWS ARE WRITTEN OR REWRITTEN to allow that difference of treatment, or leeway. In other words, "absolute" or "blind" justice is bad and not to be championed, but a continually-evolving, ever-more flexible/farsighted (of consequences down the road) system of laws and their administration is what paladins of Tyr (and others in civic government, and those who run guilds) should be busy doing. This is why Texter and Piergeiron both support having "shady" lords like Mirt involved in government, and in having agents who covertly and continually investigate the City Guard and City Watch, to mitigate against human nature and slow or stifle corruption. They KNOW corruption will happen, and that some Watch officers will be lazy, stupid, and play favourites from time to time; it's their business as those in charge to try to arrange the Watch policies and procedures and training, and the structure of civic justice, to work against that. It's desirable to understand criminals and watch their plots, rather than always wade in, the moment wrongdoing is detected or suspected, because Waterdeep benefits in the long run by those in government knowing what's going on, how the city "works," and to be as tolerant as possible. The laws treat nobles differently than other citizens, and that's part of Waterdeep's history, not something to be automatically struck down without thinking. Yet nobles who misuse their wealth or high station must be resisted . . . it's all a huge balancing act, with ever-changing obstacles and "sweet spots" where the balance will be right.
Or to put it far more simply, a paladin of Tyr wants laws to be applied properly. If the law contains discrimination in the law, that's okay - - unless the paladin sees bad consequences to this discrimination. Then it is the HOLY DUTY of the paladin to try to get the law changed, refined/augmented, or struck down. Laws are seen as imperfect, and always capable of improvement, NEVER something to be blindly applied.


So said Ed, all those years ago. Bahgtru, Ed's more up-to-date (and directly relevant to your follow-up questions) replies will no doubt follow in time to come, when he has time.
In the meantime, hope these words of his help!
love,
THO
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Sandro
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
266 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  02:01:29  Show Profile  Click to see Sandro's MSN Messenger address Send Sandro a Private Message
quote:
If the law contains discrimination in the law, that's okay - - unless the paladin sees bad consequences to this discrimination.

So the paladins don't see discrimination in and of itself to be a bad thing? Would a law that, say, taxed the poor heavier than the rich, but not cause anything more than dissatisfaction amongst the poor be seen in the same light as a law that charges, say, dwarves (this is all hypothetical) a certain "fee" to work in the city that could cause extreme unrest/lawlessness amongst those affected? What is most imporant, fairness for all, or that the law simply be upheld?

In a nutshell: what is most important, justice for all, or merely that no laws are broken?

"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..."

Edited by - Sandro on 09 Oct 2009 02:05:03
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  04:11:37  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hmmm. Your last sentence poses an either/or choice, Sandro, that would seem to hold true for a real-life person considering questions of ethics, laws, and social order . . . but my reading of Ed's words leads me to strongly suspect that he would reject that either/or as applying to paladins of Tyr.
Ed does, after all, repeatedly state that in the view of the faith of Tyr, justice is served by applying existing laws fairly but also through continually examining and modifying laws to make them more just.
I can tell, from my roleplaying experiences with Ed as DM, that he portrayed Piergeiron (Texter was only encountered briefly, and as more of a "going it alone" paladin outside of Waterdeep's jurisdiction) as seeking safety and fairness for citizens of all "standings" (social class) in Waterdeep, but accepting the competitive strivings and clashing interests of guilds and independent merchants and viewpoints as being part of the essential nature of Waterdeep, not something to be trammeled by a social order imposed by ever more laws. I also recall Ed portraying Piergeiron as being practical over all else, so that illithids were banned from being citizens or owning property in the city to prevent others from fleeing Waterdeep out of fear, or attacking illithids on sight (so, yes, Piergeiron was advocating discrimination on a racial basis out of practicality). However, the Lords of Waterdeep KNEW there were illithids operating down in Skullport, yet did nothing about it, because they saw Skullport as the necessary "relief valve" for trade outside the laws and legal reach of the city proper.

Again, everyone reading this should remember that ALL intelligent beings of the Realms who don't also happen to be fanatics view ALL deities as real and worthy of some sort of worship, so even paladins of Tyr would not think that Tyr's faith and decrees should necessarily reach everywhere (or be made to do so) or override conflicting beliefs of other faiths. A paladin of Tyr would not try to force a priest of Chauntea to alter the way plants grow to conform to a law passed by someone ignorant of plant growth, just to promote the law. Nor would a paladin of Tyr expect or seek to force all combatants in a war to follow a specific set of rules (unless everyone fighting was dedicated "first to Tyr, before all others"), because they recognize that Tempus (and other gods) hold sway over battlefields.

Ed is busy with family matters (in Canada, Thanksgiving is this weekend), but will weigh in on this when he can.
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 09 Oct 2009 04:13:01
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Sandro
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
266 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  06:21:00  Show Profile  Click to see Sandro's MSN Messenger address Send Sandro a Private Message
Mm, thanks for your thoughts, Lady Hooded One -- that was what I expected, but due to the wording I wasn't quite sure.

"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..."

Edited by - Sandro on 09 Oct 2009 06:22:58
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Bahgtru
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  17:59:27  Show Profile  Visit Bahgtru's Homepage Send Bahgtru a Private Message
To THO,

Thank you for finding the response from Ed and expounding on it. It was very helpful in giving more clarity to Piergeiron and why he has such success in governance as the Open Lord of Waterdeep.

I look forward to Ed's insights on the other questions and continue to be very grateful for all the great Lore shared here.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  19:40:02  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
My pleasure. Really.
I love doing this, and of course darned near dragooned Ed into it, back in 2004, after Elaine Cunningham suggested these Sages threads. Ed loves providing the lore, too, obviously, and I'd imagine that what he's imparted here for free over the years could well have been spun into half-a-dozen or so good, meaty Realms sourcebooks, if everything was collated, organized, and only slightly expanded.
So keep the questions coming, everyone, and Ed WILL keep on answering them. He has a very busy publishing career atop a normal working life, so there are times when his answers slow down or grow sporadic, but he never loses interest or desire to find or restate Realmslore, or create it anew.
So ask us anything. As you know, I'm a little less than bashful - -so you may well get some interesting answers!
love to you all,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2009 :  00:41:01  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Ed loves providing the lore, too, obviously, and I'd imagine that what he's imparted here for free over the years could well have been spun into half-a-dozen or so good, meaty Realms sourcebooks, if everything was collated, organized, and only slightly expanded.
I'm following a somewhat more simpler course, by collating/compiling most lengthy replies into separate files -- each dealing with a specific Realmslore topic. Eventually, these separate files themselves, will be compiled into sourcebook-styled PDFs, which will individually cover certain subjects.

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