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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2003 :  16:03:40  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Well, by now most of you have at least become acquainted with 3.5e either by purchasing the actual books, or by the handy WotC SRD.

So now I am wondering. Since you have had your first taste, what, if anything will you be leaving as standard 3e, if and while using the 3.5e rules?.

Of course this is on the assumption that you are going to convert to 3.5, but I just thought I would see whether there are some things gamers will not change even if they do use the revised rules.


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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2003 :  16:07:33  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll start -

For me at least, I am really considering my options in regards to 3.5e Damage Reduction. I know that it will probably require a lot of work on my part (as DM) to change the rules, but I have just been thinking that the older 3e system for DR was so much more easier to work with.

As well as this I am also thinking about sticking with the 3e Haste spell and possibly even the 3e variant of the Bull's Strength spell, but I haven't completely decided yet.


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Edited by - The Sage on 24 Jul 2003 16:08:34
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AraznBlair
Learned Scribe

USA
114 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2003 :  16:08:22  Show Profile  Visit AraznBlair's Homepage Send AraznBlair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like how they changed the Ranger class to make it more realistic. That I will definately stick with. As for what in 3E that I'll keep or change I'm not sure. I need to check out the 3.5 more to see what was all changed overall and how it affects the game.

If I was to change anything I would change the XP level advancement. Make it a bit harder to level up. I think that the new advancement for the 3E and 3.5 makes for more powerful characters.

Arazn Blair
Fightermage Extrodinare
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2003 :  16:11:09  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't read about that yet. Are there now different rules concerning XP and level advancement?.


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AraznBlair
Learned Scribe

USA
114 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2003 :  16:35:23  Show Profile  Visit AraznBlair's Homepage Send AraznBlair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not that I kow of. That is just something I would change. If you take a 10th lvl fighter from 2E and compare the XP with a fighter from 3E you find that the same XP points put the 3E fighter at a considerable higher level. I just think that the advancement is way to fast for a player to really grow into his character. I would change the XP advancement in my games. But that's just me.

Arazn Blair
Fightermage Extrodinare
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  03:31:02  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm...I can see what you mean. I noticed this particularly when I converted several of my favorite characters from 2e to 3e. Bookwyrm and I were talking some time ago about working on a alternate form of level advancement, perhaps we should pool our resources and ideas, and see what we can come up with.


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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore

USA
1278 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  07:26:11  Show Profile  Visit Mournblade's Homepage  Send Mournblade an AOL message  Click to see Mournblade's MSN Messenger address  Send Mournblade a Yahoo! Message Send Mournblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Because of what you said sage I checked out the Damage Reduction. I don't like it simply because I think there should be things that are REALLY NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to hurt. BUt I like the 3.5 Haste because it is closer to the AD&D haste which I missed VERY much

I don't think a character of mine has used 3e haste yet. Until now.


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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  08:40:02  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was one of the things that I did not like about the new 'Damage Reduction' either. I could forsee potential player abuse with such a lapse, at least for me.

Anyway, as for the changes to haste, well like I said, I haven't completely decided yet. I might actually look up the old AD&D haste now, since you mentioned that. You have piqued my curiosity Mournblade...thank you .


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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 25 Jul 2003 08:40:40
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zemd
Master of Realmslore

France
1103 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  10:04:36  Show Profile Send zemd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I received the 3.5E yesterday so i didn't have time to read it entirely. (My MM has a printing pb, so i have to send it back to Canada!!! )
My first thoughts are:
- WOAW! The covers of the books are GREAT! (Except the MM which is less beautiful than the 3E)
- The ranger is much more interesting
- i prefer the way the bard gain his songs.
- ... that's all for now, i also received manual of the planes and unaproachable east (two great books!)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  10:19:31  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The good thing about the Manual of the Planes is that it is like a condensed version of the entire Planescape setting, only in 3e. The only problem is, they used virtually none of the fluff from the setting. The cosmological structure of the planes is also a little different as well, and the inclusion of the Plane of Shadow is something that was never really worked on in the Planescape setting.

There are other differences, but if anyone wants a taste of the planes, at least from the 3e perspective I would really recommend this book.


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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  10:26:04  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I only just downloaded the SRD, not having the $$$ for the original 3e material, much less the new stuff. I haven't really taken a look at it yet, though. Besides, I wasn't nearly as familiar with 3e (or any version of D&D) as you all were. I probably wouldn't be able to spot a lot of differences.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  12:29:07  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually the changes to the Bard character class are probably only one of a few things that I like about this revised edition. I am particularly eager to see how the changes to the Bard song ability translate into game play.


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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  13:21:11  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, I took a look at the bard. It looks more balanced now, or maybe just easier for me to understand (it was a trifle confusing before). The ranger also looks like a good class now. First level isn't so heavy anymore, and you get some good bonuses later on.

Something I noticed was the Familiars section. Sage, remember how we were talking about proper master's bonuses? Well, they added them for all the familiars. They also upped the bunus on most of them to +3. The bat gives a bonus to Listen, just as I said it should; the hawk gives one to Spot (in daylight) like you said it should.

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zemd
Master of Realmslore

France
1103 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  13:22:16  Show Profile Send zemd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm a little bit disappointed by the change of the Gnome's favorite class
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  13:49:30  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We covered that while you were gone. It makes no sense to any of us.

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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  14:15:52  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
About the familiars -- I just noticed that the toad now doesn't give a Constitution increase. Instead it acts like a free Toughness feat.

That's nice and powerful at first level, but there's not much continuous gain like there was for the old one. Of course, with the old one, it also gave an increase to anything that depended on Constitution. That, I grant (now that I think about it) was pretty powerful. But I think they should have done "+1 HP per master's Hit Die" or something like that.

What do you think?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  15:34:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually I am just reading over the familiars section now. I must say, these changes are indeed a lot better than the stats and bonuses from 3e. I am keen to see how these bonuses will work in gameplay.



zemd, I still have found no reasonable explanation for why WotC changed the gnome favored class. As Bookwyrm said, it was discussed elsewhere, but I still feel there is little justification for this change, unless of course somebody here knows why it was changed.


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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  16:03:32  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm...I am not really sure about the Toad familiar bonus change. While I preferred the 3e bonus (basically because it was continuous), I can see the reasoning behind WotC decision to alter it. Still something like you are suggesting would work, although +1 HP may be too small, especially at the master's higher levels.


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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  16:04:59  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm . . . maybe +3 HP at odd-numbered levels (starting with first)?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2003 :  16:27:57  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, either that, or when the master gains a feat. This way the continuous bonuses are gained but not too much too quickly. I might have a look at Epic familiar rules, because I am thinking of an idea for this which may work, although I want to look over the epic familiar progression first.


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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2003 :  06:20:12  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What about the skills? I skimmed over them, and they look quite different.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 26 Jul 2003 :  07:54:37  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't read the revised skills yet. I am currently working through the new revised 'monstrous creatures as PC races' entries.


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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore

USA
1278 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2003 :  21:07:15  Show Profile  Visit Mournblade's Homepage  Send Mournblade an AOL message  Click to see Mournblade's MSN Messenger address  Send Mournblade a Yahoo! Message Send Mournblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just by looking at the 3.5 I can tell I am going to do exactly what I did when 2nd edition came out. Make a HYBRID. Generally the skills make more sense. Survival is a great skill, and it always bothered me that someone with wilderness lore could not intuit direction. Good job there. The wild empathy ability is a great addition. AND now the RANGER is on par, if not better than a FIGHTER. I had a full class ranger simply because I loved the class. when I converted him to 3.5 I was very happy. I only have the players handbook though. I need to get the others.


A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to...
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2003 :  02:16:00  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually you make a good point. As I said earlier, there are some things about this new revised edition that I do not like, and preferred the older 3e system. Take the Druid for example. Now that I have fully looked over the revised edition, it makes me wonder why they even bothered with the revision for thid class.

Although I will probably utilise the new revised Ranger class, I'll admit that it is a far more impressive improvement over the 3e working.


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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader

USA
4740 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2003 :  12:19:38  Show Profile  Visit Bookwyrm's Homepage  Click to see Bookwyrm's MSN Messenger address Send Bookwyrm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ever since I figured out enough to judge the classes against each other, I've thought the ranger was pretty lacking. Now it looks much better. The favored enemy ability works better now; not only is there not that stupid restriction from the original, the increases look more realistic now.

As for the rest . . . how about making a Dungeons & Dragons 3.25 Edition: The Candlekeep Hybrid?

First motion: get rid of the decimal point. All in favor?

Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.

Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2003 :  12:22:30  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Agreed . Does anybody actually know why WotC opted to call it '3.5'?.


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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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