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mnb128
Learned Scribe

USA
126 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  05:04:34  Show Profile  Visit mnb128's Homepage Send mnb128 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Didn't any of you know that Drizzt is actually Anthony Kiedis from the Chili Peppers?

Long link 1
Really long link 2
(not quite as long as link 2) link 3

"Under the Bridge" was actually a about present day Luskan. "Under the bridge down town, that's where I drew some blood..."

Mod edit: The links were stretching the page. I have destretched it.

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Dec 2008 06:25:14
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  05:05:49  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Drizzt looks like a cross of Emperor Palpatine and Austin Powers there.

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  05:09:33  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

But I don't buy that argument, because we have some old TSR artwork that shows black-skinned drow. http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gh/gh-wg12.htm



-Not having the actual product, but having seen it many times, I'd say that said Drow isn't colored in using black, but rather, dark hues of blue, purple, and gray. You *can't* color something in black, and then be able to include "detail lines" (for a lack of a better term) in black as well. If both were black, the "detail lines" would not appear. To fix this, "detail lines" other than black could be used- white would stand out the most, since this is black we're talking about here- but I'd think that would look fairly tacky.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  06:20:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

-Drizzt looks like a cross of Emperor Palpatine and Austin Powers there.





"Does the Dark Side make you horny, baby?"


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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  06:22:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

But I don't buy that argument, because we have some old TSR artwork that shows black-skinned drow. http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gh/gh-wg12.htm



-Not having the actual product, but having seen it many times, I'd say that said Drow isn't colored in using black, but rather, dark hues of blue, purple, and gray. You *can't* color something in black, and then be able to include "detail lines" (for a lack of a better term) in black as well. If both were black, the "detail lines" would not appear. To fix this, "detail lines" other than black could be used- white would stand out the most, since this is black we're talking about here- but I'd think that would look fairly tacky.



It doesn't matter how it was done. The end result was a black-skinned drow. That proves it could be done.

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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
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USA
292 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  11:39:26  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

-Drizzt looks like a cross of Emperor Palpatine and Austin Powers there.





"Does the Dark Side make you horny, baby?"




That made my day!
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  13:40:50  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

-Drizzt looks like a cross of Emperor Palpatine and Austin Powers there.





"Does the Dark Side make you horny, baby?"




That made my day!



After dealing with all this snow here in Ottawa, this just brightened me up also.

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The Sage
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  14:47:56  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think I'll ever be able to enjoy watching either of those characters in quite the same way as I did previously.

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Lord Karsus
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3125 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  15:53:07  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert



"Does the Dark Side make you horny, baby?"





-See, it just naturally works.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It doesn't matter how it was done. The end result was a black-skinned drow. That proves it could be done.



-It's not, though. If dark blue, purple and/or gray hues were indeed used (and, by my eye, that's what it seems, but I'm no art connoisseur, so...), then you've got a dark blue, purple and/or gray Drow that looks black, not a black Drow.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
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Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 10 Dec 2008 15:55:14
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
30973 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  16:54:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It doesn't matter how it was done. The end result was a black-skinned drow. That proves it could be done.



-It's not, though. If dark blue, purple and/or gray hues were indeed used (and, by my eye, that's what it seems, but I'm no art connoisseur, so...), then you've got a dark blue, purple and/or gray Drow that looks black, not a black Drow.



If the end result is a drow that appears to have black skin, then how they got there doesn't matter. The drow on that cover (and on some other books I've seen) appears to have black skin -- so that's enough for me. The art matches the description.

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  17:19:17  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-So, you are accepting that Drow cannot be colored and shaded using black, with the caveat that other colors/hues can and should be used to make the individual appear as black to the naked eye as possible.

-I, myself, have become partial to the "purple Drow".

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  17:44:40  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

-So, you are accepting that Drow cannot be colored and shaded using black, with the caveat that other colors/hues can and should be used to make the individual appear as black to the naked eye as possible.

-I, myself, have become partial to the "purple Drow".



No, I'm not accepting that. I'm saying that it doesn't matter if they mix orange, pink, mauve, indigo, and plaid to make black, or if they use just black -- so long as the end result looks black, I don't care how they got there. The end result can be achieved, and it has been achieved. That's all that matters to me.

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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  18:15:52  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is also a difference in art styles. Maybe some artists are more skilled at shading and therefore capable of creating the black look, while others don't use heavy shading in their work and therefore aren't as skilled in its use.
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  22:19:20  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Looking black =/= black, thus enabling the claim that it cannot properly be done with black to be correct.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  22:59:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

-Looking black =/= black, thus enabling the claim that it cannot properly be done with black to be correct.



The claim wasn't that it couldn't be done with black, the claim was that it couldn't be done, period.

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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
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USA
292 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2008 :  23:02:33  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion

-Looking black =/= black, thus enabling the claim that it cannot properly be done with black to be correct.



The claim wasn't that it couldn't be done with black, the claim was that it couldn't be done, period.


What I meant was that maybe it could be done by some artists, but maybe other artists just didn't have the right style or skill level to do it.
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore

USA
1714 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2008 :  09:35:18  Show Profile  Visit BEAST's Homepage Send BEAST a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Space Hamster was referring to the effectively black color of the drow character's resultant skin in the created image ("The end result was a black-skinned drow"), while Dag was referring to the pigments of the paint or digital tools used in order to create the images in the first place ("that Drow isn't colored in using black, but rather, dark hues of blue, purple, and gray"). Apples and oranges. Or maybe apples and appleseeds. Dagnirion is talking tools, while Wooly was talking end-product.

To say what color something is really is highly subjective and relative. There are so many factors that go into contructing an image, lighting it, transporting it through intermediary media, conveying it into our eyes and peripheral anatomical components, clearing whatever obstacles lie in wait (such as color blindness, cataracts, or tinted lenses), and then finally into our psychological perceptions of it all, that to say what color an object is really does depend on one's particular frame of reference at any given moment in time and space. What color an object has or should be characterized by depends on all of that intermediate stuff, right down to the individual viewer's mind. Dag, the color of the materials or tools preliminarily selected in order to craft the image really is only the beginning--not the final answer.

If Wooly said that drow was black-skinned, then he was right for himself (and a whole lot of other people, I would reckon). Dag, if you perceive the finished drow image to appear to have skin that does not look black, then for you, I guess, it is not black.

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<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works">
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe

Greece
570 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2008 :  14:17:29  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Old Covers

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
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rockyoumonkeys
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28 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2008 :  17:14:55  Show Profile  Visit rockyoumonkeys's Homepage Send rockyoumonkeys a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I definitely prefer the old covers, though some of the new covers are pretty nice.

I guess I just prefer that old-fashioned fantasy art.
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Hawkins
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USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2008 :  19:06:36  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Personally, I find the older covers "campy" for the most part, which is why I prefer the new covers.

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dwarvenranger
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USA
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Posted - 18 Dec 2008 :  01:25:59  Show Profile  Visit dwarvenranger's Homepage Send dwarvenranger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scererar

mostly old. Can't beat Elmore, Easley, and Caldwell Art. I do like many of the newer covers as well though.



Gotta agree with Scererar here.

If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.

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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe

USA
195 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2009 :  04:57:46  Show Profile  Visit Laerrigan's Homepage Send Laerrigan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm a sucker for attempts at photorealism, maybe with twists of romance (art style, not that kind of romance) and/or impressionism, to say nothing of natural-looking dragons, so I'll always gravitate toward Lockwood....

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Thalos_Milathriel
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USA
33 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2009 :  01:26:19  Show Profile  Visit Thalos_Milathriel's Homepage  Click to see Thalos_Milathriel's MSN Messenger address Send Thalos_Milathriel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are some exceptions, but I'd have to vote NEW just because of Todd Lockwood. All his stuff is very detailed, and so well done that it encourages the suspension of disbelief, which I think is the mark of great fantasy art.

I'm even planning on purchasing some Lockwood prints to hang in my new basement office/den/FR collection storage room.
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swifty
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United Kingdom
517 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2009 :  09:23:46  Show Profile  Visit swifty's Homepage Send swifty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
for me its a case of good cover in the late 80s up to the mid 90s but there were some shocking ones in the late 90s.eg the drizzt books faces of deception and the shadow stone.my favourite cover is probably darkwalker on moonshae.

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Brynweir
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USA
436 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2009 :  15:28:41  Show Profile  Send Brynweir an AOL message Send Brynweir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to say that I like the older covers better, but Lockwood does some fine work. Brings to mind Michael Whelan, who happens to be my favorite... though not so much in FR.
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