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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 15:19:22
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Poll Question:
Hello! I'm curious about something. I have heard people comment on how they like the new cover art for FR and D&D books in general since the switch to WotC and illustrators like Lockwood came into the picture.
I really like the older cover art because to me it feels more homey and it brings back memories of when I first started reading the books.
How do you feel about it? Do you like the old covers better or the new ones?
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 17:08:39
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I came into this hobby back when all of TSR's artwork was done by Larry Elmore, Keith Parkinson, Jeff Easley, and Clyde Caldwell. I loved their art, and in fact I remain a huge fan of Elmore's stuff.
Some of the new artwork isn't bad, but it's not as good as what those guys did. And some of it is downright horrible. I think that the function of cover art is to get your attention and make you want to read the back cover blurb. Seeing something that makes me say "What the hell is that?" does not accomplish that purpose. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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DragonReader
Senior Scribe
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 21:13:23
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| I like some of each, so I don;t really know how to respond. I guess in terms of style I tend to prefer the newer covers, but there were alot of gems in the old TSR days as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 23:16:49
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It was Elmore and Easley's art from the earlier editions that I've found to be the most attractive.
There are certainly some later edition-covers that I've come to love just as much [mainly from the MIDNIGHT campaign setting], and a few 3e FR books. Most of the 3e DL covers were rather interesting as well, though not as visually attractive, at least to me, as Elmore's DL art from the 2e days.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 Dec 2008 23:19:32 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 00:32:14
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I voted new.  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 01:13:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I came into this hobby back when all of TSR's artwork was done by Larry Elmore, Keith Parkinson, Jeff Easley, and Clyde Caldwell. I loved their art, and in fact I remain a huge fan of Elmore's stuff.
Some of the new artwork isn't bad, but it's not as good as what those guys did. And some of it is downright horrible. I think that the function of cover art is to get your attention and make you want to read the back cover blurb. Seeing something that makes me say "What the hell is that?" does not accomplish that purpose.
Actually, I find the new covers grab my attention more than the old ones. For the most part I enjoy the new art better, but there are certain old covers that I will never tire of (the Avatar novels I preffered the old covers, but most of the Drizzt novels, especially the Legacy of the Drow ones, I MUCH prefer the new ones). There have been a few cases where I thought "What the hell is that?" also, with some new ones and some old ones (Drizzt looks like an arthritic old man on the original Siege of Darkness and/or Starless Night).  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 01:25:25
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| I can't vote, because there are covers both old and new that I like (and hate). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 01:59:21
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| mostly old. Can't beat Elmore, Easley, and Caldwell Art. I do like many of the newer covers as well though. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 02:28:43
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| We now have a black (not pink!) Drizzt. How can that not be better? :) |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 08:36:56
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| The older stuff is more to my liking... |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 09:03:38
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I loved Elmore's original cover for The Crystal Shard, as it was not only incredibly detailed, but relatively subtle and low-key compared to all the swashbuckling and spellbound covers of the other books at the time. Less was more.
But Caldwell's "Yosemite Sam"-esque Bruenor is a classic.
Lockwood's stuff is miles and miles beyond Easley's old-man Drizzt, but I still wish somebody could help him to make his pics match the little details in the text even more accurately. While the earlier editions' cover artists had the excuse of being commissioned to do the art before the books had even been published yet, Lockwood doesn't really have that excuse. True, he still almost certainly has too little time to read every book he's asked to paint for, but even then... |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 12:05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
I loved Elmore's original cover for The Crystal Shard, as it was not only incredibly detailed, but relatively subtle and low-key compared to all the swashbuckling and spellbound covers of the other books at the time. Less was more.
Have to agree on that. From that trilogy though, of the three original art pieces, the one for Streams of SIlver was my fav (Bruenor just looked pissed!!) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Zapato
Acolyte
Netherlands
38 Posts |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 14:00:37
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I honestly can't vote on this... I love the old fiction covers, with Elmore 'defining' the look of D&D for my youth, while the new Lockwood paintings are just masterpieces in their own right. Meanwhile, I think the design of the 3.0/3.5 Realms RPG products did a terrific job of selling the setting and showing it's uniqueness from the D&D core (in contrast, the Eberron RPG books get 'lost' in their design compared to the core books).
I also have to agree with the Space Hamster on a lot of the new artwork on the fiction books. A lot of the books have art that looks like they painted it with watercolor, then ran it under the faucet for a bit, creating too much blur and not enough definition.
And yes, 'old man Drizzt' was something that was just wrong. Especially with the 12-year old Catti-brie on Starless Night.
Edit: Found a link. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 09 Dec 2008 14:01:58 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 14:50:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
And yes, 'old man Drizzt' was something that was just wrong. Especially with the 12-year old Catti-brie on Starless Night.
Edit: Found a link.
YUCK |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 15:19:55
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| I actually have the collected series on The Dark Elf Trilogy and Legacy of the Drow so I have never seen some of these. However, I really like some of the old Elmore covers. I also like the Moonshae covers, the earlier anthologies and I love the covers of the Finder's Stone trilogy. To me, the somewhat fuzzy looking pictures of heroes striking heroic poses is what fantasy artwork should be like. I guess I'm subconsciously influenced by Frazetta or something. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 16:07:35
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Though I generally do prefer the old artwork, there are some exceptions -- and a lot of those were the Drizzt covers after the original trilogy. He does look like an old man in that one pic, and I never understood where that funky gold headpiece came from...
And though Elmore got Drizzt's skintone wrong on the cover of The Crystal Shard, that remains one of my all-time favorite Realms covers. It's just an incredible bit of artwork.
http://www.o-love.net/realms/covers_large/pic_ice1.jpg |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Dec 2008 16:10:50 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 16:18:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Though I generally do prefer the old artwork, there are some exceptions -- and a lot of those were the Drizzt covers after the original trilogy. He does look like an old man in that one pic, and I never understood where that funky gold headpiece came from...
And though Elmore got Drizzt's skintone wrong on the cover of The Crystal Shard, that remains one of my all-time favorite Realms covers. It's just an incredible bit of artwork.
http://www.o-love.net/realms/covers_large/pic_ice1.jpg
Yeah the skintone is the only problem I have with that one also. Overall it is a masterpiece. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 18:46:04
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I just don't understand why the skin tone was SUCH an issue for artists. Somebody in the know (Salvatore?) said that it had a lot to do with the fact that black skin is 'harder' to draw. Since Lockwood fixed the issue so brilliantly, I have to wonder why the artists TSR hired could never quite it get it right, let alone why instead of giving the drow brown skin or gray skin opted with PINK.
Another boon of WOTC, I s'pose. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 19:07:03
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| It probably had something to do with the fact that they use computers to alter the art now. They didn't have the same level of editing technology before, so artists would have to do an oil painting or something along those lines pretty much without computer help. Now some artists create the entire work on a computer. Some things are just harder to paint without editing help. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 19:23:21
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Also, remember that in those days printing was not digital either. A big problem was the 'bleed' factor of really dark colors.
Even Lockwood's pictures aren't as dark as a dark elf should be. You can only go so far with a dark base before you lose the contrast lines to develop shape and depth. And the only way to do so with pure black is to use lighter tones as the contrast lines, which leads to the image taking on the 'film negative' look. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 19:44:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
I just don't understand why the skin tone was SUCH an issue for artists. Somebody in the know (Salvatore?) said that it had a lot to do with the fact that black skin is 'harder' to draw. Since Lockwood fixed the issue so brilliantly, I have to wonder why the artists TSR hired could never quite it get it right, let alone why instead of giving the drow brown skin or gray skin opted with PINK.
Another boon of WOTC, I s'pose.
But I don't buy that argument, because we have some old TSR artwork that shows black-skinned drow. http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gh/gh-wg12.htm |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2008 : 20:42:27
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Well if I recall, Salvatore once said the infamous "Clint Eastwood" cover from The Legacy occured due to a misunderstanding between his take that Drizzt needed to look "mature" and the artist's intrepretations...
Where the earrings, muttonchops and pink flesh came from, none have said. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 02:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Though I generally do prefer the old artwork, there are some exceptions -- and a lot of those were the Drizzt covers after the original trilogy. He does look like an old man in that one pic, and I never understood where that funky gold headpiece came from...
And though Elmore got Drizzt's skintone wrong on the cover of The Crystal Shard, that remains one of my all-time favorite Realms covers. It's just an incredible bit of artwork.
http://www.o-love.net/realms/covers_large/pic_ice1.jpg
+1. This was one of the novels that first drew my attention to FR |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 02:12:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I honestly can't vote on this... I love the old fiction covers, with Elmore 'defining' the look of D&D for my youth, while the new Lockwood paintings are just masterpieces in their own right. Meanwhile, I think the design of the 3.0/3.5 Realms RPG products did a terrific job of selling the setting and showing it's uniqueness from the D&D core (in contrast, the Eberron RPG books get 'lost' in their design compared to the core books).
I also have to agree with the Space Hamster on a lot of the new artwork on the fiction books. A lot of the books have art that looks like they painted it with watercolor, then ran it under the faucet for a bit, creating too much blur and not enough definition.
And yes, 'old man Drizzt' was something that was just wrong. Especially with the 12-year old Catti-brie on Starless Night.
Edit: Found a link.
now I concider this cover "new" art. I am getting old  I imagine we are talking pre and post 3E art |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 05:04:34
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Didn't any of you know that Drizzt is actually Anthony Kiedis from the Chili Peppers?
Long link 1
Really long link 2
(not quite as long as link 2) link 3
"Under the Bridge" was actually a about present day Luskan. "Under the bridge down town, that's where I drew some blood..."
Mod edit: The links were stretching the page. I have destretched it. |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Dec 2008 06:25:14 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 05:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But I don't buy that argument, because we have some old TSR artwork that shows black-skinned drow. http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gh/gh-wg12.htm
-Not having the actual product, but having seen it many times, I'd say that said Drow isn't colored in using black, but rather, dark hues of blue, purple, and gray. You *can't* color something in black, and then be able to include "detail lines" (for a lack of a better term) in black as well. If both were black, the "detail lines" would not appear. To fix this, "detail lines" other than black could be used- white would stand out the most, since this is black we're talking about here- but I'd think that would look fairly tacky. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 06:20:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Drizzt looks like a cross of Emperor Palpatine and Austin Powers there.
"Does the Dark Side make you horny, baby?"
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2008 : 06:22:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But I don't buy that argument, because we have some old TSR artwork that shows black-skinned drow. http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gh/gh-wg12.htm
-Not having the actual product, but having seen it many times, I'd say that said Drow isn't colored in using black, but rather, dark hues of blue, purple, and gray. You *can't* color something in black, and then be able to include "detail lines" (for a lack of a better term) in black as well. If both were black, the "detail lines" would not appear. To fix this, "detail lines" other than black could be used- white would stand out the most, since this is black we're talking about here- but I'd think that would look fairly tacky.
It doesn't matter how it was done. The end result was a black-skinned drow. That proves it could be done. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Old Covers vs. New Covers
