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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2009 :  02:18:49  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What about his oddball cousin--- Mushshoon?

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30403 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2009 :  02:41:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon

Manshoon´s sister?
Now that´s...interesting...to say the least.



Her name is Womanshoon.

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Fillow
Master of Realmslore

France
1608 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2009 :  08:23:00  Show Profile  Visit Fillow's Homepage  Send Fillow a Yahoo! Message Send Fillow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon

Manshoon´s sister?
Now that´s...interesting...to say the least.



Her name is Womanshoon.


Are you sure Wooly ?
I believed that Womanshoon was Manshonn's wife !
Isn't his sister's name Sistershoon ?
And of course, they're part of the Shoon dynasty !...

Allright, I stop kiddy now ! But Wooly was the first !

"Today is a good day to smile",
Fillow Big'n'Book Mahlemiut 'Lead-dog', Son of Garl, Wanderer of the Masked Leaf and Namer of Oghma.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14524 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2009 :  18:59:51  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought Sistershoon was the one who entered that convent...

You know, the one dedicated to Loviatar, which had Nuns decked-out in Leather.
quote:
Originally posted by Dart Ambermoon

Manshoon´s sister?
Now that´s...interesting...to say the least.

You know, it would be just like Ed to throw us a curve-ball.

Perhaps the 'love' Manshoon felt for the Shadowsil wasn't one of physical passion... perhaps it was more... familial.. in nature.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Jul 2009 19:04:37
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4944 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2009 :  13:22:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've finally found Ed's missive regarding Manshoon. Here it is in all its (short) glory ...

Manshoon’s family name is “Shoon,” and all members of his family use a single name, derived by adding a prefix to “Shoon” (usually an established family one, such as Brar/Brarrara; Caul/Caulra; Dusk/Duskra; Farl/Farla; Gul/Gularra; Harl/Harla; Kul/Kuldra; Man/Mana; Pel/Pelra; Sarr/Sarrla; Tarl/Tarla; Vorl/Vorlarra [the male form first, female form second]). So, no first name and surname, just a single name. This is a naming convention once very popular in southerly coastal lands (of the coast known, in its more northerly reaches, as the Sword Coast), but now dying out because most of the peoples who used it were conquered or made slaves, and gradually died out or intermarried and in any case adopted the naming conventions of those “over” them (so as to “belong” and escape inferior status).

This of course, tells you where Manshoon’s family originally came from. Don’t forget he had an older brother; as far as we know in print thus far, he killed off all of his kin, but the Knights have been searching for an elusive sister of his (Duskrashoon) AND a niece (Tarlashoon) for years, without success - - because they’ve been hiding from Manshoon, and know his finding them will mean their deaths; they are of course far from Zhentil Keep and don’t use their original names.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14524 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2009 :  15:10:05  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very Cool.

Obviously my guess about the Sahdowsil was incorrect, since Manshoon doesn't appear to have much 'familial' love in him.

Thanks for sharing that, GK.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Jul 2009 15:11:08
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2009 :  00:24:38  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I've finally found Ed's missive regarding Manshoon. Here it is in all its (short) glory ...
-- George Krashos


Thanks George for sharing- so two missing 'shoons' to keep Manshoon busy and out of mischief

Do we know who sired his niece? (brother or sister), am wondering how she survived and whom the other parent is.

Cheers

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
654 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2009 :  08:55:51  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I DID always wonder whether there was any form of link between Manshoon (or, it now turns out, the Shoons) and the Shoon of Calimshan (those lovely people who set up the Shoon empire). The naming conventions of that clan are different, though ("proper" first name and family name, rather than a single name). Either this might be a covert link, or one of Big Ed's "similar or identical names but completely different things" that he built into his original setting...

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
292 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2009 :  15:33:52  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
[...]
Ashe Ravenheart, one of the scribes here, did an awesome job of coverting my mantles stuff into a FR format PDF.
[...]



May I ask where one can find this and other PDFs that have been mentioned in this scroll?
Anyway, thank you for all your fantastic work, Mr Krashos!
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2009 :  05:46:54  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
[...]
Ashe Ravenheart, one of the scribes here, did an awesome job of coverting my mantles stuff into a FR format PDF.
[...]



I'm interested in those PDFs too, but I'd also like to thank Ashe here for his work in converting to PDF my Cormyr monarchs succession lineage (not the Cormyr lineage, just what I've been able to cobble together from published sources; still hoping we'll get to see the real thing before the Dark Eight have to form a hockey team...). I've asked Alaundo and The Sage if they want to host the file, but I haven't heard back from either of them. Perhaps I should remind them...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 18 Aug 2009 05:47:27
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2009 :  07:41:44  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I could've sworn I replied back to you with an affirmative, Jakk.

But, anyways, if you'd like to send the file along, I'll see that it's included on the shelves of Candlekeep itself.

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2009 :  07:58:59  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I could've sworn I replied back to you with an affirmative, Jakk.

But, anyways, if you'd like to send the file along, I'll see that it's included on the shelves of Candlekeep itself.




File sent... now returning you to George's scroll...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2009 :  04:53:27  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I've finally found Ed's missive regarding Manshoon. Here it is in all its (short) glory ...

Manshoon’s family name is “Shoon,” and all members of his family use a single name, derived by adding a prefix to “Shoon” (usually an established family one, such as Brar/Brarrara; Caul/Caulra; Dusk/Duskra; Farl/Farla; Gul/Gularra; Harl/Harla; Kul/Kuldra; Man/Mana; Pel/Pelra; Sarr/Sarrla; Tarl/Tarla; Vorl/Vorlarra [the male form first, female form second]). So, no first name and surname, just a single name. This is a naming convention once very popular in southerly coastal lands (of the coast known, in its more northerly reaches, as the Sword Coast), but now dying out because most of the peoples who used it were conquered or made slaves, and gradually died out or intermarried and in any case adopted the naming conventions of those “over” them (so as to “belong” and escape inferior status).

This of course, tells you where Manshoon’s family originally came from. Don’t forget he had an older brother; as far as we know in print thus far, he killed off all of his kin, but the Knights have been searching for an elusive sister of his (Duskrashoon) AND a niece (Tarlashoon) for years, without success - - because they’ve been hiding from Manshoon, and know his finding them will mean their deaths; they are of course far from Zhentil Keep and don’t use their original names.

-- George Krashos




I don't know why it took me this long to ask this question, being the obsessive genealogist that I am, but I was wondering if the precise connection between Manshoon and his infamous southern relatives has been mapped out, and if so, is it NDA? (I'll assume an affirmative answer to the latter question, regardless of the answer to the former.)

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4944 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2009 :  13:05:20  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No, no details regarding the Shoon Dynasty and Shoon family have been mapped out that I'm aware of - of course Ed has that answer (and a myriad of others) so I guess we'll have to defer to him.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2010 :  07:06:22  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heh... six months later and I'm still awaiting a reply from Ed on this, so my guess is that the relevant notes are buried deeply amid the copious piles of Realmslore.

I've had lots of other projects keeping me busy lately... most of them outside the Realms, sadly. However, I've recently got myself involved in something I've dubbed "Project Isle"... and I've been having loads of fun getting it started.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 17 May 2010 07:07:33
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  11:09:46  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Manshoon clone returning from Shoulung accompanied by a pig, a water salamander and a monkey......Wushoon......bhahahahahahahaha

Hi George...when did the Elven realm within the Gray Forest, finally fall?????

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  11:35:01  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Those pesky 'gremlins' again...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4944 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  11:56:59  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood

Hi George...when did the Elven realm within the Gray Forest, finally fall?????



Which one?

The following timeline entries may be of assistance (all dates in DR):


-6850 The moon elves of the Yuirwood travel to the forest of Saerdath (Modern: Gray Forest), and establish the realm of Larlotha.

-2457 The Nar defeat the hobgoblin hordes in battle and force them west and south into the uninhabited lands of Caerthiilor where the hobgoblins establish the realm of Haekrukkha. The Nar humans settle the plains on the northern fringes of the Riildath.

c. -2440 The hobgoblins of Haekrukkha raid the forests of Larlotha for the first time, beginning over a century of skirmishes, attacks and invasions between the two realms.

-2287 In response to forest fires lit by the hobgoblins of Haekrukkha, the elves of Larlotha begin their final, genocidal war against the humanoids.

-2284 The dwarves of the Earthfast Mountains ally with the moon elves of Larlotha against the hobgoblins.

-2281 The hobgoblins of Haekrukkha are defeated and their realm is shattered by the combined forces of the dwarves and moon elves. The elves of Larlotha, led by their warrior-queen Eldratha, suffer grievously in the final battles losing almost a whole generation of young elves in the fighting. The few surviving hobgoblins flee to the sanctuary of the Giantspire Mountains.

-1335 The moon elves of Larlotha begin a Retreat to Cormanthyr with the marriage of their ruler and queen Ildranna “Starflowers” to Coronal Miirphys of that realm. Within fifty winters only small pockets of elves reside within the Gray Forest.

75 Year of Clinging Death
Several clans of moon elves from Rilithar in the Sword Coast North, arrive in the Gray Forest via a portal and establish the realm of Vedrymmell. They ally with the fugitive Crown Prince Baranth of Impiltur who in turn recognises their sovereignty over the woodlands.

77 Year of the Quivering Mountains
With the aid of the moon elves of Vedrymmell, Crown Prince Baranth defeats the treasonous Morlorn, “the Usurper King”, at the Battle of Ilithra’s Smile and is crowned king of Impiltur. The Obarskyrs are exiled from the realm.

As for the "end" of Vedrymmell as an elven realm, I haven't quite worked that out. That end has something to do with a lack of High Magic (see the High Magic chapter in the "Cormanthyr" accessory for an undetailed lore hook) and my feeling is that by 350 DR or so whatever disaster it is that brings this realm down, has occurred leaving a few small clans still resident there but no coherent elven realm.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  12:31:30  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanx for all that it adds a lot of grist for the piece i'm cobbling together for Lisenar (Flooded Forest elf realm)....Vedrymells demise was what I was aiming for but all of the above is fantastic........wow!!!!!

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4944 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  13:24:44  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Someone was asking for information on Clan Ironshield. Here's a little bit of stuff that may assist.

Clan Ironshield was one of the original clans of Delzoun, the great Northkingdom of the dwarves. Named for its legendary founder Jangarak Ironshield and the relic that his ancestors had forged in long-ago Shanatar, Clan Ironshield was born on Jangarak's wedding day when he wed the golden-bearded Dauraela Stoneshield and adopted many of her kinfolk into his burgeoning family (the Stoneshield clan was the largest clan of the North in those days, numbering many thousand dwarves - dwarves who were always keen to strike out from the strict clan traditions and conventions that bound their lives and limited their opportunities: to this day dwarven "longbeards" will describe a rogue dwarf or dwarven group/clan as "stone-shouldered").

The fortunes of Clan Ironshield improved greatly as the centuries passed, their industry and battle-might growing winter by winter, culminating in the marriage of Rorrina Ironshield to the then King of Delzoun Dornarn in -2151 DR (after Dornarn, the kings of Delzoun did not reign along familial lines but were rather elected at a great clan conclave on the passing or fall of the incumbent monarch. Dwarves so chosen were required to leave their clan and become "of the Delzoun", ruling for the good of all Northkingdom dwarves).

From that time, Clan Ironshield's star waxed and waned in typical fashion as the centuries passed. They developed a reputation as one of the more warlike clans of Delzoun and were credited with the creation of several unique and impressive magic items of power that established their reputation in that regard. Chief of these creations were spellbane hammers (magic warhammers that on command would levitate in the air and absorb all incoming hostile spells - up to a certain amount of levels - that were intended to be used against any hostile incursion from Netheril) and axe gauntlets (mithral gauntlets which on command and one-time only would unleash a flurry of 'force axes' all around the wearer for a short period that moved with the triggerer).

Clan Ironshield produced many dwarves feted in tales and songs of the Stout Folk, but history and the long memories of dwarves give particular honour to two very different members of that clan. The first was Dennin Ironshield known to all as the "Skald of Battle". Dennin was a bard, and as dwarves reckon such matters, an extremely talented one. His epic poems and songs delighted many and he was a known carouser and drinker of prodigious ability. Dennin was also a battlerager known for being absolutely fearless in the fray, so much so that even his fellow battleragers grudgingly acknowledged that he was without peer in terms of fearlessness in battle. His ferocity in combat was complemented by screaming songs of bloodthirstiness and the orcs of the mountains would flee at the first sound of him. His repetoire consisted of several of these "blood songs", most of which were magical in nature and provided benefits in terms of strength, stamina and the ability to unnerve opponents.

The second "most famous" Ironshield was the warrior Glyir "Wyrmhunter", son of Phlyir. A beardless stripling when he and his family were set upon by an adult red dragon when some days distant from Mirabar, Glyir managed to shoot a heavy crossbow bolt into each eye of the dragon, blinding it and making it an easy target for his warrior companions. From that day, Gliyr rose swiftly in the ranks of Clan Ironshield until he was made clan champion (or "kuldalagh" - valorous axe). Preparing the warriors of Clan Ironshield, he led them on an astonishing three, successful dragonmoots in consecutive years, bringing down three wyrms of the Morueme clan of dragons and leading to a detente between those wyrms and the Northkingdom. For this reason and his elimination of this everpresent threat to the realm, he was celebrated throughout Delzoun such that stories and tales of his exploits are to this day, still recounted around hearths in Citadel Adbar.

The demise of Clan Ironshield has its genesis in the fast friendship between clanlord Tol Ironshield and clanlord Bunko Battlehammer that saw both groups of dwarves abandon their holds in and around the environs of Citadel Adbar and in -630 DR march north and west in search of the lost mines of Gharraghaur. In doing so they followed in the steps of Clan Sstar and Clan Ironstar and as with those two clans, severed their ties of mutual security with the bulk of the Northkingdom dwarves. Once mithral was discovered, it was agreed between Tol and Bunko that the more numerous Ironshield dwarves would fortify the lower mountain regions, carving out and protecting trade routes to allow riches for both clans to flow. Clan Ironshield was also used by the secretive dwarves of Clan Ironstar to bring their forged finery to markets south of the mountains at the headwaters of the River Surbrin and as a consequence grew very rich.

However their exposed position in Settlestone and the enormous weight of orc numbers that saw first Delzoun proper fall in -100 DR and then Ironstar conquered in 207 DR, spelt the doom of the clan. Harried by ever-encroaching orc raids and then by the attention of two separate rapacious hill giant clans, Clan Ironshield buckled under the strain of maintaining the trade routes that were Mithral Hall's lifeblood. By 225 DR, after the depredations of the orc horde of Gluthtor, the surviving dwarves of Clan Ironshield were absorbed into Clan Battlehammer or trekked west to Mirabar where their small numbers eventually lost their clan identity. Settlestone was abandoned and all of Mithral Hall's trade was conducted by means of underground trade routes.

So passed the storied Clan Ironshield, although there are at least two dwarven families, in Mirabar and Waterdeep respectively, who still lay claim to the clan name and the traditions of Delzoun. With the Thunder Blessing and the turnaround in dwarven fortunes, the future may well see this clan rise once again to prominence in the North.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 08 Nov 2014 06:24:19
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2908 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  13:44:58  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great Lore George!

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30403 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  14:38:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is some impressive, well-written stuff, friend Krash.

Especially about a group that killed so many of your "kin"!

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  14:42:22  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very impressive George. Any chance you can tell me a little more about the works/songs of the 'Skald of Battle?'

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 13 Jun 2010 :  15:01:46  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm looking for info about Alashar Crywinds (the wife of Telamont Tanthul).

BTW great stuff Krash, I'll have to look into earlier replies... Manshoon's family is worth saving on my HDD.

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

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Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
648 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2010 :  09:07:24  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George,

How canonical is the above Ironshield piece? Of course, you probably know where I'm going with this... how canonical are terms like "stone-shouldered" and "kuldalagh" for inclusion in the 'Realmspeak' glossary?

Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms

I am a sexy, shoeless god of war!

The Sellplague began, for all intents and purposes, in the dominions of the Corporation. Greed murdered Good Design, unraveling common sense in the cosmos and destroying her dominion. At the same time, Sales Fears and Warcraft Envy happened into alignment. This cataclysmic coincidence led to upheaval, shaking apart the primeval order, opening up holes in wallets, and reshaping everything...
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