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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

224 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2009 :  05:02:37  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey George any chance of getting some info on my Iron Throne timeline question from 2 pages back?

Thanks for all the info above. I'm sure it will see use in my campaign someday.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.

Edited by - Gelcur on 09 Jan 2009 05:03:36
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2009 :  12:20:55  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
I was wondering if you had any more information on this timeline. It seems a bit confusing. Lords of Darkness and Power of Faerun both have Sfena disappearing in 1371 DR due to Maready her lieutenant. But the timeline in Grand History says she did not disappear until 1374 DR when Dabron and the Knights of the Shield.

Any insight on these events? Or maybe a direction to look in for further information? Thanks.



There is an explanation that can be used to deal with the apparent anomaly you identify above.

The passage in 'Lords of Darkness' (p.142) does not state as fact that Sfena has been spirited back to the Nine Hells, this is only a supposition. The only thing that is stated as fact is that she has disappeared.

GHotR states as fact that she is spirited away from the Realms by Gargauth in 1374 DR (p.155).

Hence you can have her disappear in 1371 DR but be taken back to the Hells in 1374 DR. What has she been doing in between? Well, that's up to you ...

As an aside, after further checking of my old files, I note that Eric Boyd in his working up for "Power of Faerûn" provided two alternate timelines for this 'Iron Throne' event. In the rush to get GHotR up and done, I picked the earlier one - and in hindsight, the incorrect one. My bad.

Anyway, I hope the snafu doesn't cause you too many problems. I can think of at least one reason for the time delay:

In 1371 DR, Sfena chose voluntarily to 'disappear', knowing that her father's agents were closing in on her. Her place of refuge however was one known to the Knights of the Shield and they kept that piece of information in their pockets until the time was right to benefit from it in 1374 DR).

But I'm sure you could come up with any number of alternatives.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2009 :  13:41:23  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, one more requested Impilturian monarch:

Bellodar I “the Conqueror”

Very much in the mould of his father, Bellodar I matched a skill for war with the cunning and intelligence to be a great leader of men. Known for his keen wit and almost perfect recall and memory, he was a laconic and confident individual who did not suffer fools gladly nor tolerate those individuals who were more style than substance. That is not to say that Bellodar was not prone himself to flights of fancy - for he considered himself to be a ruler destined for greatness - but his excesses were always tempered by a strong sense of self deprecating humour and the acid tongue of his wife, the Queen Kalinda, daughter of King Strohm II of Tethyr.

In the first year of his reign Bellodar fought off a Flight of Dragons that assailed the lands of the Easting Reach, delivering the slaying stroke that brought down the great white wyrm Anaxargathal. Soon after, he took advantage of the devasation caused by the dragons to annex Chessagol once again to the realm for its 'protection', the city having asserted its independence from Impilturian hegemony in years past. Although Chessagol would pronounce its independence on the day of his death some 30 years later, the annexation was an indication of Bellodar's drive, ambition and sense of opportunism.

In the Year of Old Bones (609 DR), after some 5 years of preparation, Bellodar mustered the largest army and naval armada ever gathered in Impilturian lands by calling the Crownguard (Impiltur's standing militia comprising all males of military age: 25-35) into service. He and his army then crossed the Easting Reach and made landfall at the site of present-day Uthmere, bulding a wooden stockade fort, and pronouncing to his warriors that they were witnessing the birth of a Greater Impiltur and that bards in days to come would sing of their stalwart endevours and bravery in the face of the unknown. After exploring up and down the coast and wintering in Kael Orthar ("Kael" meaning "fort" in the Damaran tongue and "Orthar" being Bellodar's favourite warhorse who died of sickness soon after landing), Bellodar and his army plunged east into the Auldgloam Forest (the collective human name for the Forest of Lethyr and the Rawlinswood ere it shrunk and was separated as it is now) claiming territory and demanding fealty from those humans he encountered. His army cut a swathe through the forest, felling trees as they went and expanding the natural clearing that a glacier had cut through the Auldgloam millenia before.

Those who took up arms against the king, including the small holdings of Phandarel, Kelgrove Gard and Aerdar, were dealt with swiftly and mercilessly - the men of military age being impressed into Bellodar's army with a garrison being put in place and waystops and travel markers for merchant caravans being constructed for the expected surge in trade activities. Bellodar's army also encountered the debased and savage humans of Immircus who worshipped the demon prince Orcus. They were slain to the last man, woman and child when Bellodar saw how they had ritually sacrificed a number of his troops they had ambushed and captured, then raised them as undead and sent them to fight against their erstwhile comrades. Bellodar used magic to scour their foul city into dust but even he quailed at the prospect of exploring the labyrinth of hand-hewn tunnels and chambers that their settlement rested on. The scouts he sent to explore these warrens never returned and warding the entrances with magic, Bellodar and army left behind this accursed place little knowing that his actions at Immircus had awakened a number of demons held in stasis within demoncysts since the time of the fall of Narfell.

Bellodar's “Great March” culminated in the armies of Impiltur reaching the shores of Ashanath. There he built another log and earth fort and prepared to send a force across the lake to explore the lands that might lie beyond. Bellodar did not lead the expedition himself, having succumbed to a minor bout of illness, but fortunately so for nothing was heard of this expedition again, or its leader Duke Halthos Orbil. After their camp experienced a series of attacks by monsters including a flock of chimerae, a rogue gorgon and a juvenile fang dragon - all seemingly appearing out of nowhere (the beasts actually having been summoned and directed by the Witches of Rashemen) - Bellodar and his army marched back to the coast and the ships waiting for them there. The journey back was a difficult one, for despite the small settlements and garrisons that Bellodar had left in his army's wake, illness and discontent among the men to return to the soil of Impiltur proper caused discipline to fail at various times on the return trek. Groups of stragglers would disappear (assailed and slaughtered by demons that the army's activities had roused from slumber) and some of the forts and garrisons established at the start of the great expedition were found empty with no trace of the men who had been stationed there. When the blue water of the Easting Reach first came into sight as the army marched into the environs of Kael Orthar, a great cheer went up from the men and Bellodar himself uttered a fervent prayer to Tymora for their safe return.

On his return to Impiltur in the Year of the Glaring Eye (613 DR), Bellodar declared these new lands ready for settlement and indeed, many settlers left the realm for Kael Orthar and the fringes of the forest and down the road known then as Kingsmarch. But the previously slumbering evils of the Auldgloam were roused and the forest became a place of danger and darkness once more, harking back to the days of ancient Narfell. Those settlers who followed the Kingsmarch east were rarely seen again and the majority clustered around the settlement of Kael Orthar which in time became known as Uthmere for its cleanwater spring.

The aging but still vigorous Bellodar spent the next handful of years ruling peacefully and eagerly planning his next great adventure which was an invasion of the Vast and the annexation of those lands into the kingdom of Impiltur. Bellodar was not afforded the opportunity to bring his plan to fruition for in the Year of the Eagle and Falcon (626 DR) he was slain at the hands of teacherous nobles of House Orbil who assassinated him in revenge for the death of the head of their house many years before. They believed that the king had engineered the death of Halthos Orbil to eliminate a dangerous rival and upon the king's death, their actions flared into open rebellion with Malthos Orbil seeking to overthrow the Durlarvens and place himself on the throne. Their rebellion was short-lived however as the other noble families rallied to the royal standard of the hastily crowned Bellodar II, and the entire house was declared outlaw, their holdings and possessions confiscated by the Crown.

So passed Bellodar I, known to all as "the Conqueror" for his martial bent and military adventures. What few knew at the time was that his ambition and thirst for adventure had roused the hitherto sleeping terrors of the Auldgloam Forest and that the Durlarven Dynasty would rule for exactly 100 further years before it and the realm would fall in a demonic assault of awesome death and destruction.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2009 :  14:56:33  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good stuff Krash!

So good in fact, that those bits about the events of the Year of Old Bones should fit together with something I've been thinking about for my current FR campaign. Nicely done.

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Gelcur
Learned Scribe

224 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2009 :  15:11:57  Show Profile  Visit Gelcur's Homepage Send Gelcur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the reply. It was exactly what I needed. It caused to real inconvenience it was more something that came up as I was planning a storyline in that region.

I was presuming something similar would have happened. But wanted to make sure the original reference hadn't been cleared from the canon in favor of the new one as sometimes happens.

As a side note I have to say I enjoy when story creators are so honest with things like this. It really gives me an appreciation for the difficulty that goes into making these product.

Thanks again.

The party come to a town befallen by hysteria

Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29641 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2009 :  16:18:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Again, good stuff!

How much of this do you have? Are you working from scant notes, rough ideas, or is all of this already fully fleshed out?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2009 :  22:43:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Again, good stuff!

How much of this do you have? Are you working from scant notes, rough ideas, or is all of this already fully fleshed out?



The most recent kings (i.e the Heltharn and Elethlim dynasties) are essentially 'done' with only minor tweaking required. The Durlarven dynasty is a series of reasonably fleshed out entries using broad strokes. The Mirandors are scant notes and 'ideas' about events and their deeds etc.

As an example, here is the entry for Bellodar I that was in my lineage and which I fleshed out for the entry above:

Bellodar I, “the Conqueror”

Very much in the mould of his father, Bellodar I matched a skill for war with the cunning and intelligence to be a master of diplomacy. He fought off a Flight of Dragons that assailed the lands of the Easting Reach in the first year of his reign, personally bringing down the great white wyrm Kriopagohionis. In his reign he once again annexed Chessagol and claimed it as part of Impiltur, although it would pronounce its independence on the day of his death some 30 years later. He crossed the Easting Reach, building a fort at Uthmere and sending an expedition deep into the Great Dale, claiming territory and demanding fealty from those humans he encountered. Those who took up arms against the king, were dealt with swiftly and mercilessly. The “Great March” culminated in the armies of Impiltur reaching the shores of Ashanath after building the first road through the Great Dale and the gap between the forests. There he built another log and earth fortress and even sent a force across the lake to explore those strange lands. Nothing was heard of this expedition, or its leader Duke Halthos Orbil again. After a series of attacks by monsters, seemingly appearing out of nowhere (actually summoned and controlled by the Witches of Rashemen) Bellodar and his army marched back to the coast and the ships waiting for them there. Upon his return to Impiltur, Bellodar declared these new lands ready for settlement and indeed, many settlers left the realm for Uthmere and the fringes of the forests to the east. The passage of Bellodar’s armies had woken previously slumbering evils however, and the forest became a place of danger and darkness once more, harking back to the days of ancient Narfell. Those settlers who followed Bellodar’s Road were rarely seen again and the majority clustered around the settlement of Uthmere. Bellodar died at the hands of nobles of House Orbil who assassinated him in revenge for the death of the head of their house, for they believed that the king had engineered his death to eliminate a rival. Their rebellion was short-lived however, and the entire house was declared outlaw, their holdings and possessions confiscated by the Crown.

The above shows why I've decided to do this on the website. It makes me flesh out my entries, add in lore and generally get my butt into gear to do the entries 'properly'.

As a further example, here is one from my notes on the Mirandor Dynasty. The difference is considerable:

Inrath III

A man of regal presence which some considered to be haughtiness, he did not have the common touch of his father and was a supporter of the nobility and their rights. Married young in life to Elvarna Croam, youngest sister of King Sorentah Croam of Westgate and had two sons by her. She dies in the Blacktears Plague of 130DR and he re-marries in 132DR to Sarthil, daughter of the ruler of the Wizard’s Reach city of Delthuntle. She bears him three sons, Doraven, Azundar and Laermith. Dies of natural causes.

There's a lot more to Inrath III - well, there will be when I write him up properly - but at the moment that's all I have.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 09 Jan 2009 22:46:17
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PaulBestwick
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
83 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2009 :  10:16:48  Show Profile Send PaulBestwick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George, thanks for the info on Bellodar I. Just the type of details I need. Now to tweak the Barrow of the Forgotten King module from Wizards to fit around Eastwatch in the Great Dale, using some of this info as part of the puzzle the characters have to solve to access the deeper part of the tomb complex.
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Gang Falconhand
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
85 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2009 :  08:11:16  Show Profile  Visit Gang Falconhand's Homepage  Click to see Gang Falconhand's MSN Messenger address Send Gang Falconhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dear Mr Krashos

HI!

I'm wondering if you could tell me what are the origins of the name 'Phalorm'? What language is it? Does it have a literal meaning? Who picked the name?

THANKS!

"If you have a quality let it define you."
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2009 :  08:26:32  Show Profile  Visit Knight of the Gate's Homepage  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So I'm running a Damaran/Impilturan campaign, with my PC's having been named the council of lords of Trail's End (Baron Donleavy the Young having been tried and executed for treason by King Gareth for collusion with certain Impilturans).
In my campaign, Damara and Impiltur are on the brink of war (a situation created largely by Sonellion's meddling with various Lords of Imphras the II).
My questions are these:
1)What, in your estimation, would this war look like? Would either side have a clear advantage? My assumption is that Impiltur has Quantity, Damara has Quality, basically making it a wash.

2)Other than the obvious revenge factor, I've set it up that Sonellion hopes that, once Impiltur falls (providing that it does) it will no longer BE Impiltur, and Soargar's banishment will no longer apply. The question being, does this thought hold any water, or was she banished from the region, not the political entity?

3)Is there any chance that there are ANY living descendants of Sarshel? (I have a PC who wrote a pretty good 'no idea who my parents were' background, and I thought...)

Thanks so much for your work, as it has inspired the bulk of my campaign!

EDIT: I'm cutting and pasting this to the 'Running the Realms' page, b/c I'd like to get the take of Candlekeep @ large on these questions, too.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco

Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 05 Mar 2009 08:30:30
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2009 :  15:57:45  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry for the delay folks, but I've been away overseas. I'll get to recent queries soon. I present however the other requested monarch of Impiltur, Ellarath "the Faerie King" for your enjoyment.

Oh, and as an aside, I note that the lineage in GHotR has a typographical error in that Ellarath's son Imindarth was born in 162 DR, not 164 DR.

Ellarath, “the Faerie King”

The reign of Ellarath I hides one of the most shocking secrets in Impiltur’s long history, for the monarch who bore this name and ruled the kingdom for eighteen winters was in fact an elf named Relavar Mornthael. How such a peculiar set of circumstances came to pass has its roots in the dynastic upheavals that immediately preceded the reign of King Pendarn, Ellarath’s father. Pendarn’s victory over his traitorous step-brother Doraven at the Battle of Shields Sundered in the Year of the Great Dwarven Gate (162 DR) occurred with the aid of the moon elves of Vedrymmell whose realm lay in the Gray Forest. These elves had harbored Ellarath since the death of his uncle King Inrath IV in 159 DR when the sorely wounded prince was forced to flee into the forest and seek sanctuary from Doraven’s assassins. Several further assaults on the forest and attempted infiltrations by hired slayers over the next three winters incensed the elves and roused them to march forth in support of Pendarn when he and his mercenary army arrived by sail from Cormyr in the last days of 161 DR.

Ellarath was nursed back to health by the half-elf Kylarna, one of the Irzenath a lower caste in Vedrymmell’s society made up predominately of half-elves and used by that elven realm for most of their dealings with the N`Tel`Quess of the surrounding region. Love blossomed between them and they were wed, their union producing three sons over the course of four years. In the time before Pendarn’s return to Impiltur, Ellarath greatly impressed the elves of Vedrymmell with his quick grasp of the elvish language, courteous manner, noble bearing and quick wit and when he called upon the elves to be true to the Silver Arrow Pact established between them and King Baranth I in 75 DR, they agreed to rally to his father’s cause. He fought with the elves in the ensuing skirmishes and final battle, forging ties with them through dint of hard battles and camaraderie in the field.

When Ellarath was crowned king in the Year of the Jealous Spouse (178 DR) he embarked upon a leisurely grand tour of the kingdom to celebrate the commencement of his reign and to show the citizens of the realm their new ruler. As part of his travels, Ellarath visited the tree city of Halathaerl, the main settlement of Vedrymmell accompanied by his wife and family and a small group of trusted retainers and important nobles. It was in Halathaerl that both Ellarath and Kylarna were slain by the jealous and half-crazed Relavar Mornthael, a moon elf of the oldest and most powerful noble family in Vedrymmell. His status as a noble of House Mornthael meant that Relavar could never marry one of the Irzenath and his unrequited love and desperate longing for Kylarna was a dark secret that doomed them all when he saw her again upon her return to the realm in 178 DR. On the pretence of a private audience with the new king, Relavar found an opportunity to privately declare his love to Kylarna in lovelorn desperation only to be sharply rebuffed. His ardor cooled to a murderous rage and he slew first her and then the king when Ellarath came to her aid.

Relavar’s deed was observed by the scrying of Taredd Mornthael, the kingdom’s Faergaunt (wizardly military leader and chief High Mage) who was however unable to act swiftly enough to prevent Relavar’s impulsive act. He realized however that the situation called for immediate redress and obtained Relavar’s agreement to redeem his family’s honor and prevent the outbreak of a full-scale war between Vedrymmell and Impiltur by being transformed into a semblance of Ellarath by the Ritual of Solitude known to High Mages as Akh`Faen`Tel`Quess and having a geas placed upon him to be unable to tell anyone of what had occurred or to suicide. Shamed by his weakness and the dishonor he had visited upon the Mornthaels, Relavar agreed to Taredd’s ruse knowing that the sweet release of death would be afforded to him once Ellarath had ‘reigned’ for a suitable time, short by the reckoning of the elves. His time among the N`Tel`Quess was a subtle and effective punishment for he had no liking for humans, considering them lesser beings scarcely fit to be in his presence. The irony of his love for the half-elf Kylarna and what it had reduced Relavar to only made the punishment of his transformation worse. The death of the queen was not considered suspicious for Taredd’s magic saw to it that all signs of violence on her flesh were removed, and the king’s devotion to her was so well known and his grief at her passing so genuine that no-one suspected any foul play on his part. Her death was simply put down to heartburst, and the whole realm came to mourn a queen that they never really knew.

And so it was that the reign of Ellarath proceeded for eighteen winters without any individual knowing that their human king was in fact a transformed moon elf. The king’s fascination with all things elvish was considered a natural reaction to his early years living with the elves and welcomed as an attempt to bring some sophistication to the royal court. It wasn’t considered strange that the king enjoyed spending time in the forests, developed a passion for elvish poetry and dance and even decreed that elvish would henceforth be part of the official court language, for Ellarath ruled well and his reign was marked by peace and an end to the warring and death that had been a feature of the previous century. If the king was considered to be aloof and disinterested in the day to day activities at Court throughout his reign, his family and subjects put this down to the death of his queen and his ensuing sorrow. Many observers commented that the king only seemed to come ‘alive’ when discussing Kylarna and he is known to have commissioned so many portraits and sculptures of the queen that at least five of these objects of art exist in present-day Impiltur despite the passage of the years and the upheavals that have dotted Impilturian history since that time.

In the Year of Yearning Elves (196 DR) Taredd saw to it that the reign of Ellarath “the Faerie King” came to an end. What became of Relavar is unknown but it is suspected that he was slain by Taredd for his act of regicide and the dishonor he had visited upon the Mornthaels, with his death (although not the deed that precipitated it) being held up as an example of the consequences of disloyalty to other Mornthael ardavanshee. A dead clone of Ellarath (suitably aged by magic) was substituted in his place and no-one in Impiltur ever deduced what had transpired.

I note that I stated that I would do 5 monarchs and ended up receiving requests for only 4. I'll give the 2 or 3 readers of this thread another couple of days to give me another one before I choose one myself.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 09 Mar 2009 00:51:18
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13102 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2009 :  16:52:08  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I applaud this well-thought out story and enjoyed the lore, I have to admit that it leaves me a bit... queezy.

So Relevar murders a King, and as punishment, he gets to BE King, and sleep with the Queen, the love of his life?

I wish someone would punish me like that...

However, its helps me further establish that Elves are busy-bodies and inherently evil, which I suppoese is a good thing (I hate the buggers).

Still.. I find t odd that Kylarna wasn't able to detect the ruse... (even Fiona knew there was something up with Shrek, despite the fact that a magic potion was held responsible for the changes ). I'm just thinking there needs to be just a little more there... some near-death (which was actualy REAL death) experience for the young King, to cover any anomalies in his personality.

Perhaps Taredd was too late to stop the murder, but his magical attack left Relevar sorely wounded and incapacitated for a long while? That would have given the two enough time to conspire and cover Relevar's tracks. If they blamed it on assassins - which Taredd 'heroically' stopped - then you cover all the bases - near-death experience, the bloodied and damged room, 'Ellaraths' long convalescence and personality shift, etc...

In fact, it could have even been unplanned originally - what if Taredd's attack left Relevar badly damaged (and his faced smashed to pulp?) He teleports the king's body elsewhere, but before he can do anything else the gaurds burst into the room, seeing hm pouring a healing potion down 'Ellaraths' throat... or at least they assume its Ellarath, because there is no-one else in the room, and he so badly burnt (including his clothing being conveniently burnt away).

They yell "Stand back! What has happened to the King?!", and Taredd begins to answer truthfully... and then smiles, and explains that he was attacked by an assassin (which is the truth, so he isn't actually lying at this point).

I really don't mean to step on your toes at all Krash (you know I love ya'), but it just seemed to need a bit more to cover that strange 'punishment' and unnoticed switch.

Also, one last thing (if I may) - the REAL king's body was placed inside his tomb after the funery services were over (I HATE open-ends), and Relavar's body was placed in an unmarked vault within the Mornthael crypt.

I like the name, BTW - my very first RPG character ever was an Elf named Galavar - that brings back memories.

Great Job - can't wait for the next one.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Mar 2009 17:03:33
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  00:54:02  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On further reflection, I agree with your comments Markus and have changed the entry to make Relavar's punishment more fitting.

Thanks for the feedback and hope that the edited version is more to your taste.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  14:32:49  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My thanks for the thorough detailing of Ellarath, Krash. Great stuff! It's going to make a fine addition to your compiled "Impiltur Reply File."

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13102 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2009 :  17:49:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

On further reflection, I agree with your comments Markus and have changed the entry to make Relavar's punishment more fitting.

Thanks for the feedback and hope that the edited version is more to your taste.

-- George Krashos


George.. it was fine the way it was.

I had no intention for you change it - which is why I merely elaborated on the events to put them in a some-what different light.

I do like that you made him being King seem more like a punishment (his dislike for humans), that makes much more sense now. I just think that his being remebered as a 'good King' stems more from his complete lack of desire for expansion (which leads to war and suffering for nation's people), and his concentration on 'the arts'. While his people may think of him as a learned and peaceful man, the truth is he jsust did his job and 'suffered' their proximity, trying the whole time to instill a little 'culture' on the 'savages'.

I'm saddened that Kylarna is now dead thanks to me (I'm a murderer! ), but it is more fitting that way... although I would have preferred that he started the fight with Relevar, and Kylarna showed-up and jumped in the way, taking the death-blow meant for Ellarath. In shock at what he just did (kill the love of his life), he goes nuts and obliterates all traces of the King in a 'potent magic blast'.

I hate to be a noodge, but him killing her on purpose doesn't sound a whole lot like Love (although Elven emotions aren't human), especially considering he likes Elves and dislikes humans (why wouldn't he have confronted Ellarath?) Him killing her by accident and then having to live with what he has done sounds so much more horrifc (and suitable). The only thing stronger then the Elven sense of 'Justice' (humans call it revenge) is their sense of guilt.

The only problem I have with THAT scenario is that it reminds me of something else... something I can't quite put my finger on...

Something in Evermeet perhaps...

Anyhow, don't feel like you need to make changes on my account - you're the creditted designer here... I'm just a rabid fanboi.

Edit: Also, I'm eagerly awaiting your Calimshan lineage. I am not very big on lineages usually, but the Calishite one is extremely interesting, thanks to Schend, and I think you could take it to the next level.

Edit2: I got it! My modified verson reminds me of the story of Strahd (from GH/RL).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Mar 2009 17:57:13
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2009 :  00:40:19  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I note that I stated that I would do 5 monarchs and ended up receiving requests for only 4. I'll give the 2 or 3 readers of this thread another couple of days to give me another one before I choose one myself.
-- George Krashos


Excellent, am looking forward to your choice of monarch, will be interesting to see which one you pick.

George, thanks for taking the time over many years to bring us all excellent Realmslore.

Cheers

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2009 :  10:50:30  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I hate to be a noodge, but him killing her on purpose doesn't sound a whole lot like Love (although Elven emotions aren't human), especially considering he likes Elves and dislikes humans (why wouldn't he have confronted Ellarath?) Him killing her by accident and then having to live with what he has done sounds so much more horrifc (and suitable). The only thing stronger then the Elven sense of 'Justice' (humans call it revenge) is their sense of guilt.



Well, Relavar thought he was in love with Kylarna, but more correctly he was infatuated with her which he changed in his own head to feelings of "love" once she had left the Gray Forest to be with Ellarath.

You see, Relavar's infatuation caused him to make Kylarna in his view more beautiful, intelligent and "Tel`Quessir" than she was in actuality. You see she had to be so because otherwise his infatuation for her made him seem weak and lacking in discernment given that she was of the Irzenath. He fantasised (without much forethought or thinking of a practical nature) about her being trained and improved by his attention and affection, thereby allowing her to ameliorate the "accident" of her birth and racial background and he toyed also with having her change her appearance with magic to look like a moon elf.

When she spurned him, she was effectively destroying the fragile fantasy webwork of justifications and excuses he had built up to prevent the self-analysis that accompanied the reality that he, a high class elf noble, had fallen for a 'nothing' half-elf. In rejecting him, she rejected his plans to 'help' her become more than she was, even if such a transformation was "for her own good" and something she "might not immediately understand". Basically, in Relavar's mind, he never allowed himself to contemplate a scenario where she would reject his overtures once he made her know that she was the object of his affections. She should have been kissing his feet when he declred his love for her, instead she rejected him and worse than that, chose a human over him.

Such is the fine line between infatuation and rage. When he snapped and killed her and then Ellarath he was excising the perceived damage to his personal (warped) sense of honor and social/familial standing and status.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Edit: Also, I'm eagerly awaiting your Calimshan lineage. I am not very big on lineages usually, but the Calishite one is extremely interesting, thanks to Schend, and I think you could take it to the next level.



Well, this is a big undertaking given that Calimshan history has eight Ages and the First Age alone had twelve dynasties and 92 rulers. I'll see what I can get done in the next couple of months or so, but creating material 'whole cloth' is always such a slog.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13102 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2009 :  18:16:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for responding to this - that makes a lot of sense now. He wasn't really in love - he had that 'stalker' mentality (and they usually do eventually turn their infatuations into rage).

As far as the Calimshan lineage goes, take your time. You might be better off tackling it (and presenting it to us) one age at a time.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2009 :  02:42:18  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Question re: Calimshan lineage: can it be done without tackling Tethyr at the same time, given all the interrelations between the two (thanks mostly to the Shoon dynasty)? The Shoons are my particular point of interest in the Lands of Intrigue (for fairly obvious reasons, I think). Do you have any thoughts on them apart from what we already know from previous publications? Re: the big picture: As Mark says, take your time; it's a big project either way.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2856 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2009 :  03:30:28  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Thanks for responding to this - that makes a lot of sense now. He wasn't really in love - he had that 'stalker' mentality (and they usually do eventually turn their infatuations into rage).

-Kinda like Cyric and Mystra?

BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 12 Mar 2009 03:30:58
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2009 :  04:07:34  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

Question re: Calimshan lineage: can it be done without tackling Tethyr at the same time, given all the interrelations between the two (thanks mostly to the Shoon dynasty)? The Shoons are my particular point of interest in the Lands of Intrigue (for fairly obvious reasons, I think). Do you have any thoughts on them apart from what we already know from previous publications? Re: the big picture: As Mark says, take your time; it's a big project either way.



Tethyr has been done for years - at least in the format I plan which is the one showcased in GHotR. As for the Shoon, there is a ton of info on them in both LOI and EotSS and I really couldn't think of anything to add. What were you looking for in particular?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13102 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2009 :  06:53:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Exactly what is Manshoon's relationship to the ancient shoon?

He is a Calishite originally, and Ed has hinted at a connection.

For some reason I'm thinking some lesser, forgotton about heir that was called "the Boy Shoon", who finally gets tired of hearing it said with derision, and slays his captors (or whatever... could be evil stepmother for all I know) and says "I am a Boy no longer... from this day forth, I am the MAN, Shoon!" and stalks out (leaving the room full of very dead bodies).

I have an over-active imagination.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 12 Mar 2009 06:54:34
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2009 :  07:24:50  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Exactly what is Manshoon's relationship to the ancient shoon?

He is a Calishite originally, and Ed has hinted at a connection.

For some reason I'm thinking some lesser, forgotton about heir that was called "the Boy Shoon", who finally gets tired of hearing it said with derision, and slays his captors (or whatever... could be evil stepmother for all I know) and says "I am a Boy no longer... from this day forth, I am the MAN, Shoon!" and stalks out (leaving the room full of very dead bodies).

I have an over-active imagination.



That's not so hard. Manshoon's family was originally from those parts, but Manshoon's personal history is almost purely Moonsea. What he did after he became Manshoon of the Zhentarim, well I'm guessing he may have visited the ancestral home ... in Shoonach ... once or twice. He certainly had a spell cache there as I understand and "Cloak & Dagger" alludes to him getting stuff from there after the clones ran amok.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4715 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2009 :  12:31:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gang Falconhand

Dear Mr Krashos

HI!

I'm wondering if you could tell me what are the origins of the name 'Phalorm'? What language is it? Does it have a literal meaning? Who picked the name?

THANKS!



In 1998 Eric advised me that Ed had provided him with various names associated with the Fallen Kingdom including Phalorm which he noted was the 'most likely' name for that realm. Unfortunately, I never delved into the etymology of the name or what language it came from (do names have a 'language'?). Perhaps you can ask Ed himself. Sorry I can't help you more.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2856 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2009 :  13:00:29  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Krash was the Blue Dragon that is in Ched Nassad get named after you in the 3E Book Underdark?

BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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