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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2019 :  00:41:10  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahh shucks. I can't claim all the credit. The article had its roots in work Eric Boyd and I were doing a few years ago and have now returned to. The Jergal/spellweaver connection came from him as did much of the early history and I then riffed in terms of Jergal's machinations over the Nether Scrolls, travels over Faerûn and concluding Netheril foray. Dazzlerdal notes most of the lore connections that brought it together (Ed's Border Kingdom mention of Godswalk Keep, the Underdark product noting a phaerimm presence in Imaskar, etc.).

I should point out to you that Eric had and has a different take on Jergal which is likely to be showcased in his next product Crown of Eaerlann if we ever finish it! When that happens, mine will quietly slide into somnolence and remain what it always was and is: fan musing.

Oh, and just so you know, given recent e-mail exchanges between Eric and I on adjunct topics, I think I would have to revamp the article a little bit in any event.

Thanks for taking the time.

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4815 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2019 :  08:36:58  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Somewhat unsettling news.

Wotc has abandoned this realms reality for their own less interesting creation(best thing they ever did in my opinion), and in the absence of their misguided steer, us realms fans have looked to others (You, Eric, and ed) to provide the expansions to lore we so desperately desire. And you have generously complied, for which we are infinitely grateful.

Canon is no longer official wotc approved sourcebooks, it is forum posts from the chambers of the sages, it is Twitter posts, it is articles like layla maurshanta, yahdi el alamat, the zulkirate of thay, the impiltur timeline, Lord of the end of everything, and sourcebooks like illefarn anew.

Until now there has been no conflict and use obsessed enthusiasts have catalogued everything and use it as much as any other official sourcebook.

If you and Eric have different views on Jergal then please attempt to reconcile them into a single vision. Eric's own approach is never to ignore a source and your article is now a source. Revise it, amend it, such things happened often in past sourcebooks, but please don't ignore it. I think Steven said that there are no mistakes, only opportunities for good
Storytelling.

I don't know if you have ever considered it or intended for it to happen but I (and I expect many in the community) regard you and Eric and ed as the keepers of canon for the 14th century DR. And although I doubt any of you intended for that to happen by generously providing your time and skills, but it is the state of things at the present.

On a more personal note I loved the Lord of the end of everything and regard it as an excellent explanation of one of the most mysterious deities in faerun. It is made even better because it closely mirrors my own approach, that gods do not directly affect the material plane, instead you made Jergal a real being with a colourful history and later catapulted him into an unwanted divinity, explaining many of the legends and tales about him. I hope we see a revised version later that works with Eric's vision as well, often the best lore comes from reconciling different works that seems incompatible.

And please don't take this as an attack or anything disparaging, I'm just trying to explain how i think many of us here feel about your articles and I would have for Lord of the end of everything to slide into obscurity and would instead like to see it reborn anew like an old adventure brought back to life, but I'm sure you and Eric are doing that already anyway.

Gary

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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2019 :  11:13:54  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey how ya been, George? I haven't had much of a chance to dive into anything Realmsian for awhile now, but I've recently found both the time and motivation so I'm back!

I was wondering if you could give me any additional information on the Barrowlands in Impiltur. I've read the little tidbits in the Dragon article, but I was just wondering what it looks like. I know it's a wasteland of course, but can you tell me about anything else there? I know there are tombs, but what are they like? Any other ruins or notable features? At what point do the Barrowlands start from the coastline? What is it that keeps the Barrowlands from becoming more verdant?

And I mean I have to ask, any additional comments on the system of tunnels underground and the alleged Demonbinders that go with them? Where do the rumors/stories of their continued existence come from? How did the "adventurers" (I've always hated the term..) get down into the tunnels? If they're tombs, why is there even a system of tunnels?

Just a few questions

Thanks George!
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2019 :  02:23:14  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hehe, that little tidbit is all there is. The rest is up to the DMs and gamers out there who want to expand on the lore and make it their own. I know that's not particularly helpful, but I've found that the Realms works better when you leave a bit of mystery and "wiggle room" in things.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2019 :  10:15:17  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's kind of what I figured was the intention. I just wondered in a general sense what your intentions were regarding it. Or comparing it to our world, what/where geographically would it be roughly analogous to?

It's good to be back
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
668 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2019 :  07:19:29  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi, George,

First of all, thank you very much for all your Realms creations, past, present, and future. Some of the greatest stuff I’ve laid eyes on. speaking of... I was totally convinced thzt I had saved / copied your « Jergal, the Lord of the End of Everything » piece from the old Realmssecretariat site, but now it seems that I have not. Would it be possible to get a copy, please?

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2019 :  07:58:27  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth

Hi, George,

First of all, thank you very much for all your Realms creations, past, present, and future. Some of the greatest stuff I’ve laid eyes on. speaking of... I was totally convinced thzt I had saved / copied your « Jergal, the Lord of the End of Everything » piece from the old Realmssecretariat site, but now it seems that I have not. Would it be possible to get a copy, please?



Sure Thauramarth. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send it through.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1703 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2019 :  15:25:52  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Lord Rilimbraun Heltharn spends most of his time in Lyrabar although he is known to summer in Filur. He wakes just before dawn in his residence Blackstag Manor, just east of the Mount and within a bowshot of the Liongate, and after his ablutions, he spends a candle in prayer to Tyr, seeking his deity's blessings for the day ahead. After a light breakfast (palmgolds and softcurd - peaches and yoghurt to you outlanders)...


I have a very specific query about an incredibly minor detail in this old lore about Lord Rilimbraun.

Where in the Realms do 'palmgolds' (peaches) grow and what can you tell me about their use in various regional cuisines?

By which I mean, are there areas known for palmgold cobbler or pies? Where are the most famous palmgold liquors made?

Lord Rilimbraun is a great lord, with access to vast resources, living in an affluent trade port, so the palmgolds could easily be imported from Aglarond, Old Empires, Thay or the Vilhon Reach, but there is a chance southern Impiltur (and by extension, then, probably also the southern part of the Vast, around Procampur and Tsurlagol) has a climate that makes it possible to grow them locally.

I'm asking because a cultured and cosmopolitan dwarf priest from the Earthfast is cooking a feast* and I was wondering if peaches were known (and available) in the Vast.

If they are, caramilized peaches can be used in place of tomatoes** to make a delicious sauce for grilling meat in firepits.


*Using up what remains of their fresh supplies before the adventurers must rely on travel rations for the rest of their journey.
**Which Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue insists are exotic fruits imported from Maztica.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2019 :  17:02:27  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the eastern Realms, the Vilhon - specifically Turmish - grow the greatest quantity of palmgolds. Impiltur gets most of its stone fruit from the city-states of the Wizard’s Reach however, where there are abundant orchards also. Delthuntle leads the way in this regard. Impiltur on the whole can’t grow palmgolds, and yes, it is only Rilimbraun’s station that ensures a supply when they are in season.

— George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1703 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2019 :  17:37:01  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

In the eastern Realms, the Vilhon - specifically Turmish - grow the greatest quantity of palmgolds. Impiltur gets most of its stone fruit from the city-states of the Wizard’s Reach however, where there are abundant orchards also. Delthuntle leads the way in this regard. Impiltur on the whole can’t grow palmgolds, and yes, it is only Rilimbraun’s station that ensures a supply when they are in season.

— George Krashos


Thanks a lot.

Aside from apples, then, what fruits are grown in Impiltur and the Vast?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2019 :  13:48:48  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In Impiltur, the following fruit are most commonly encountered:

Apples

Hargalon: These purple, nigh black apples are found in the coastal lands near Dilpur and are rock-hard and sour when first in season. They require aging for at least 6 months before their sweet, firm fruit comes to full ripeness and offers notes of cherry, cinnamon, vanilla and coriander.

Graele’s Green: a green-skinned, firm apple that grows wild across Faerûn from eastern Amn to western Impiltur. It is used for both eating and baking and has a sharp, tart flavour profile.

Jillim: This rich, red-skinned apple is the most prevalent of those grown in Impiltur and is juicy, crisp and sweet with a touch of tart depending on ripeness.

Pears

Saral: This pale-red, pear is a staple of Impiltur and grown profusely. It is soft and juicy when ripe and very sweet.

Condar: This green, elongated pear is grown primarily in the Uplands and is firm when ripe, but with very sweet, white flesh. It keeps and travels well.

Baro: This yellow-brown pear is rounder in shape and grown in the coastal lands between Dilpur and Sarshel. It is crisp and firm when ripe and only mildly sweet. Often used in cooking.

Cherries

Denba: These dark red cherries are sweet (the darker they get, the riper and sweeter they are) and are grown throughout Impiltur. They are the staple cherry found in the kingdom.

Olvur’s Suns: These yellow cherries exhibit thin red steaks when very ripe but are otherwise a less sweet, but bigger alternative to the Denba. Grown mostly in orchards on the southern slopes of the Earthfasts.

Urdis: This pink-hued cherry is sour in its flavour profile but excellent when dried, pickled or used for cooking. This type is grown in the Uplands and is also a favourite of the halflings who live along the Easting Coast, who call them “Drims”.

Plums

Peris: These deep purple plums are round in shape and have a sweet, mild flavour when ripe. They hold together well when cooked and so are often used in pies and pastries.

Galan: These green-skinned plums are common in the orchards around Lyrabar and have greenish-yellow flesh. Their taste has a honey flavour to it.

Tebel: These small, reddish in hue plums are often used for making distilled spirits for they are very sweet. Commonly grown in the various monasteries to the Triad dotted around Impiltur.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 01 Nov 2019 14:37:18
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1703 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2019 :  14:28:28  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, George.

The PCs stocked up twice, once in Ravens Bluff at the beginning of Mirtul and once in King's Reach on 15 Mirtul.

A halfling majordomo of one PC handled the provisioning in Ravens Bluff and anything that might have been expected to survive a month or so might still remain of those original supplies.

Depending on when Hargalon apples are harvested, the PCs might have been provided with a cask of them stored over the last few months of winter. If Hargalon apples are in season in the fall, for example, they might be sufficiently aged in Tarsakh and Mirtul to be perfect.

Other apples and pears aren't usually in season in early spring, so preserves made from them are more likely than fresh fruit, at least for the supplies bought just as Mirtul began. If any of these varietals are ripe in the spring, however, and grow near King's Reach in the Vast, the PCs would certainly have added a goodly supply.

If cherries in the Realms have similar growing seasons as on Earth, the first cherries of the sweet varietals should be ready in Mirtul and the sour ones should follow a month later (or as late as Eleasis or Eleint in colder areas). This means that the first harvest of Denba cherries and perhaps Olvur's Suns might be available in King's Reach on 15 Mirtul, especially if Olvur's Suns have historically been favored by dwarves in the region (seems plausible judging by where they are grown).

Plum season should also be starting. Out of Peris, Galen and Tebel varietals are most favored by dwarves and most likely to be available in King's Reach?

Dwarves are obviously going to want many kinds of sweet fruit to make alcoholic beverages, if nothing else, and it makes sense for them to have grown them on the surface around King's Reach while they briefly held sway in the region.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2019 :  22:19:24  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your timing sounds right re when fruit is available. The dwarves source Galan plums for eating, and they are found in the Vast, but love to get their hands on Tebel for distilling into plum brandy. Rumor has it that some dwarven merchants trade arms and armor to the monasteries and temples of the Triad in Impiltur for access to Tebel plums.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32524 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2019 :  03:39:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Friend Krash, I'm working on an NPC. He's a half-dragon priest of Oghma. For no particular reason, I decided to have him be from Impiltur.

So, how are half-dragons treated in Impiltur? (Mine is half-bronze)

And aside from the big temple in Songhal, how widely worshipped is Oghma, in Impiltur?

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1703 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2019 :  20:04:53  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Say, George, what can you tell us about etiquette, good manners and 'the done thing' in Impiltur?

What is the expected course of events when a young man cones a courting?

What about when a young lady becomes enamored with a stranger introduced to her at a ball? What are her options and what is viewed as the 'done thing'?

In romantic chap books popular in Impiltur, what kibd of behaviour is edgy and exciting, but still sympathetic?

What behaviour crosses a moral line and marks a previosly exciting love interest as a dastard and a blackguard?

How are social mores and expected behaviour for young nobles (and those who aspire to noble status, such as through marriage) distinct from normal common courtesy?

To take a concrete example, how does aristocratic bodice-ripping romantic literature in Impiltur treat adultery, specifically, betrothed partners being seperated and sleeping with someone else before finding their loves again.

Many Anglosphere players will unconsciously assume that manners and savoir-faire anywhere in the Heartland and 'civilized' Realms defaults to a variety of Regency social mores, with perhaps some later Victorian flourishes.

That is, we expect Impilturan nobles to act either like the youths in Georghette Heyer stories or the far more straight-laced Regency Romance heroes and heroines, interprented, in the worst case, through Victorian mores held by parents, aunts and petty social climbers.

How wrong are our assumptions?

What should we expect instead?

How much freedom do the daughters of social-climbers enjoy, when it comes to making their own friends, selecting their own prospective mates and the like? Assuming gently-born (if little known), affluent, but never really respected among the true upper crust.

Are tropes and mores from Earthly 'Comedies of Manners' applicable at all?

Or are The Song of Ice and Fire stories a more reasonable depiction of how Impilturan gentry and nobility handle courting, familial allegiances and weddings.

Basically, when I've got numerous characters aspiring to idealized Impiltur upper-class values, for some of them raised to them and others gotten from books, what are those values and how do they clash?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2019 :  14:57:50  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Friend Krash, I'm working on an NPC. He's a half-dragon priest of Oghma. For no particular reason, I decided to have him be from Impiltur.

So, how are half-dragons treated in Impiltur? (Mine is half-bronze)

And aside from the big temple in Songhal, how widely worshipped is Oghma, in Impiltur?



Well, why wouldn't you have him come from Impiltur? It's the most brilliant FR realm going around.

My answer works for the pre-Spellplague Impiltur, though I suppose it can be adapted to the Sundering era if you like.

In the Year of the Riven Skull (1250 DR), Impilturian woodcutters, travelling deeper into the Grey Forest than was the norm, came upon an ancient elven ruined tower, which further exploration and magic revealed to be from the time of the long-ago elven kingdom of Larlotha. In that tower were found a clutch of bronze dragon eggs, in stasis, and believed to be the last get of the fabled bronze wyrm Vorasaegha, who had made a pact with the elves of that realm.

The decision was made by King Lashilmbrar to have the eggs hatch and give the bronze dragons life in return for a pact whereby the dragons, a score in all, would pledge service to the kingdom and in return be granted their freedom after a century of service and a quantity of treasure for their respective hoards (the idea being that some would be prepared to remain allies of Impiltur even after that time and after reaching adulthood the females would breed another generation of prospective defenders to be offered service to the throne).

Thus were the Wardragons of Impiltur created and in no small measure were the reason why Impiltur experienced generations of uninterrupted peace after the machinations of the "Traitor Prince" Thaum of Telflamm in 1295 DR (the dragons were too young to pose any great threat to the rebel armies and Thaum and his forces are known to have slain some 4 of the young bronze dragons ere their protectors managed to escape with them to Aglarond and other safe havens).

By the time of the Queen-Regent Sambryl, the Wardragons had received the colloquial moniker of the "Queen's Bronzes" and formed an integral part of the Warsword of Impiltur. Reaching adulthood, and the ability to polymorph into human shape, it is known that at last three of the fifteen bronze dragons that had survived to that time (Tardratharonn, Rulmaraethar and Pranamalasta) had half-dragon children, which were raised by their human parents (and quietly financially supported by the Crown). The total number of children was thought to be a two-score or so (the dragons shared their favors with abandon), and recognisable by their medium brown skin (making them appear to be from the lands of the Vilhon), yellow-bronze eyes and bronze-tipped hair. Known to the general populace as "the Burnished" when referred to in the third person, their presence in the major population centres of the realm drew little comment or reaction after a time - and in fact made the life of other half-dragon travellers and adventurers all the easier passing through or dwelling in Impiltur.

With the advent of the Rage in the Year of Rogue Dragons (1373 DR) and the devastation brought to the realm by the machinations of Sammaster and the madness wrought on the Queen's Bronzes, the attitude to half-dragons has shifted perceptibly. Some of the half-dragon progeny were affected by the Rage also, exhibiting uncharacteristic behaviors and in a few cases, committing acts of violence or destruction that saw them land afoul of the authorities. Since that time, the people of Impiltur have been less welcoming to half-dragons of all types and the Burnished have experienced a degree of prejudice and distrust that has made it difficult for them to live "normal" lives. A fair few have left the realm as a result, while others have moved to smaller towns and settlements to avoid this treatment, and currently being a half-dragon in Impiltur comes with the stigma of noticeable racial intolerance.

So there it is. Your NPC is likely to be having a tough time of it, but hey, them's the breaks.

And quickly, Oghma is worshipped in Impiltur as it has always accommodated that faith and also that of Deneir as a "frontier of learning" in the lands of the East, but I wouldn't describe that worship as being "wide". Songhal houses the only temple but there are shrines in Lyrabar and Sarshel as well.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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BrennonGoldeye
Seeker

64 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2019 :  16:44:33  Show Profile Send BrennonGoldeye a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just gotta say, George.. your one of the BEST.

Sam

Sam Noe
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32524 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2019 :  15:59:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos


Well, why wouldn't you have him come from Impiltur? It's the most brilliant FR realm going around.


Honestly, I would have never thought of Impiltur, if not for your love of the place. It simply wasn't on my mental map of the Realms, so to speak, until you started fleshing it out, here. It's great lore like this post that made me interested in the area.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

My answer works for the pre-Spellplague Impiltur, though I suppose it can be adapted to the Sundering era if you like.


I don't have a specific date for my project in mind; I'm kind of leaving it open. That said, I favor the pre-Spellplague era, and my musing is focused in that direction.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos


With the advent of the Rage in the Year of Rogue Dragons (1373 DR) and the devastation brought to the realm by the machinations of Sammaster and the madness wrought on the Queen's Bronzes, the attitude to half-dragons has shifted perceptibly. Some of the half-dragon progeny were affected by the Rage also, exhibiting uncharacteristic behaviors and in a few cases, committing acts of violence or destruction that saw them land afoul of the authorities. Since that time, the people of Impiltur have been less welcoming to half-dragons of all types and the Burnished have experienced a degree of prejudice and distrust that has made it difficult for them to live "normal" lives. A fair few have left the realm as a result, while others have moved to smaller towns and settlements to avoid this treatment, and currently being a half-dragon in Impiltur comes with the stigma of noticeable racial intolerance.

So there it is. Your NPC is likely to be having a tough time of it, but hey, them's the breaks.


My guy's backstory is that he was born in Impiltur, but he doesn't know who his father was -- his mother didn't even know she'd slept with a dragon until she gave birth to a half-dragon. So Daddy Bronze could have been one of the dragons you describe, or he could have been from somewhere else. Most likely, he was from somewhere else.

There is another bronze dragon as part of my half-dragon's backstory -- but that other bronze is not much more than a name, and the notation that he was a follower of Oghma, himself. My guy changes his name to something inspired by this prior bronze, who was nicknamed Sharpquills; my guy considers himself to be a spiritual heir of this prior dragon. Where this prior dragon even lived isn't important -- just that there was an Oghma-worshipping bronze dragon, at some point in the past.

My guy becomes an adventurer and joins the Harpers, and thus is away from Impiltur when the Rage happens.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

And quickly, Oghma is worshipped in Impiltur as it has always accommodated that faith and also that of Deneir as a "frontier of learning" in the lands of the East, but I wouldn't describe that worship as being "wide". Songhal houses the only temple but there are shrines in Lyrabar and Sarshel as well.

-- George Krashos




I think the easiest thing is for my guy to have been born in Songhal. Despite his mom's support and the fact that half-dragons weren't prejudiced against at the time, he was still kind of a lonely kid, because he was different. And then one day he goes into the temple, where a priest who had seen him around town notices him and decides to take him under his wing -- eventually leading to my guy joining the priesthood, himself.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Oct 2019 16:00:26
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2019 :  17:25:29  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Glad that nothing I wrote was useful!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32524 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2019 :  01:43:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Glad that nothing I wrote was useful!

-- George Krashos



You provided good info. I wasn't sure if Oghma's temple there in Songhal was a one-off or not, and knowing that my guy wouldn't have been attacked on sight or actively distrusted helped -- otherwise, I would have had to move him elsewhere.

And the background on the bronzes means that I can, if I want to, connect either his mysterious father and/or Sharpquills to Impiltur. (Bronze Daddy could have been actively hiding from the local bronzes, which is an interesting idea I'd not had before)

So it didn't change the backstory I had, but gave more potential and confirmed the idea as workable. And I appreciated the lore, too.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Oct 2019 01:44:26
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 29 Oct 2019 :  00:40:05  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George, have you thought about brewing styles in Impiltur?

Going by what I guess about the climate and terrain, I can imagine that barley and wheat grow well in Impiltur and that they can make a wider variety of ales and beers than is possible in the Swordcoast North.

Would you consider it implausible or contrary to your internal headcanon if Impiltur was known for brewing ales and beers with a high proportion of wheat (i.e. somewhat like real-world Grodziskie or Weizenbier)?

According to Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, in the North, the standard tavern beverage are stouts. Stouts are also brewed in Cormyr and around the Moonsea, there are brown ales available in the Dalelands and lager appears to be a fairly new innovation from Calimshan.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5640 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2019 :  10:36:04  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

George, have you thought about brewing styles in Impiltur?

Going by what I guess about the climate and terrain, I can imagine that barley and wheat grow well in Impiltur and that they can make a wider variety of ales and beers than is possible in the Swordcoast North.

Would you consider it implausible or contrary to your internal headcanon if Impiltur was known for brewing ales and beers with a high proportion of wheat (i.e. somewhat like real-world Grodziskie or Weizenbier)?

According to Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, in the North, the standard tavern beverage are stouts. Stouts are also brewed in Cormyr and around the Moonsea, there are brown ales available in the Dalelands and lager appears to be a fairly new innovation from Calimshan.



See page 35 of this thread.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 29 Oct 2019 :  12:21:09  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

See page 35 of this thread.

-- George Krashos


Ah, that's what I was looking for!

Inevitably, I have some questions.

First of all, there is no mention of beer where malted wheat is used to supplement or replace the malted barley. Of course, unless the Realms climate and agriculture are utterly foreign to us Earthlings, such beers will be commonplace anywhere wheat is more plentiful than barley.

A cursory examination of Realms sources has not revealed any mention of such beers that I can find, but I consider absence of evidence no evidence of absence and conclude that it is most likely that such beers haven't been mentioned because most of the focus of Volo's Guides and similar supplements has been on regions where different beer styles are more popular.

In general, in the northern lands of the Realms, wheat is harder to grow and therefore more expensive. With barley being hardier, it's not hard to see why the Swordcoast North would be known mostly for ales that use mostly malted barley, such as stouts.

Climate-wise, however, anywhere wheat grows in plenty, there could be a local taste for beer styles using malted wheat. And while Waterdeep is too far north for wheat to be truly cheap there, I would be very surprised if there was not a some kind of wheat ale made at Goldenfields, for example.

Given that we have somewhat detailed descriptions of the cuisine of the Western Heartlands, the Swordcoast, the Daleland and Cormyr from the various Volo's Guides, I'd consider the ales mentioned in them a reasonable cross-section of popular styles in those regions. Furthermore, from novels and the like, Sembia seems similar to their neighbours in Cormyr and the Dales in most agricultural matters, as well as being decent wine-country.

Much of the Lands of Intrigue are southerly enough to be suitable for vineyards, which tends to reduce ale and beer demand, but both Amn and Tethyr likely have significant local beer traditions, some of which might make use of wheat.

By the same token, most of the southern shores of the Sea of Fallen Stars are known for their wine production, not their ales and beers.

So, if I want to feature wheat beers in the Realms, I figured that the Vast, Impiltur, Damara and Thesk were good potential areas for such beers to be regionally popular.

Where would you locate the most famous wheat beer breweries in the Realms?

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

BEER & ALE

Much of the beer production in Impiltur is concentrated in the cleared lands between Hlammach and Dilpur where cereal crops including barley are grown. The two cities are rivals in this regard and both produce slightly different products. In Hlammach, most of the barley is dried using coke, which gives it a lighter hue, while the "traditional" fire-dried barley used in the beers and ales of Dilur give them a darker hue. More recently, beer from farming communities (known as "thaedar") in the Uplands have become all the rage in the major cities of the realm. These beers are different again in that they use wild hops that provide a more bitter taste, one that connoisseurs regard as indicative of high quality.

The coke-fired ales of Hlammach are clearly analogous to Earth-made pale ales. What about the darker ales of Dilur? Do you imagine them being like real-world porters, stouts or brown ales? Or do examples of all three exist?

What real-world beer or ale would be closest to the bitter ales made with wild hops in Upland thaedar? What do people in Impiltur and the Vast call such ales or beer?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
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Posted - 01 Nov 2019 :  16:14:18  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Say, George, what can you tell us about etiquette, good manners and 'the done thing' in Impiltur?

<BIG SNIP>

Basically, when I've got numerous characters aspiring to idealized Impiltur upper-class values, for some of them raised to them and others gotten from books, what are those values and how do they clash?



Wow, big question. And I don't have the brilliance of Ed Greenwood for this type of stuff. But I've had a go and hopefully this answers your queries:

Marriage

For a non-noble or royal, formal marriage exists only in a religious sense in that some churches, including the Triad, will host services where two individuals are joined in the eyes of the faith. Such services are usually reserved for actual clergy of a deity or very devout lay worshippers, who pay well for the privilege of having their union blessed by the god in question. More commonplace is a simple, informal union which we in the real world would call a “common-law” marriage, where a couple simply declare or demonstrate that they are in a monogamous relationship. In the Damaran tongue your partner in such a union is a “turl” for both males and females.

The nobility and royalty on the other hand have a more formal union which involves a legal deed for any property/dowry that transfers from one family to the other (most noble daughters have a dowry, but some sons do also) and deals with what occurs if that union should end. Such unions are called “glorals” and a male member of such a union will be referred to as a “glor”, while a female is a “glora”; as in, “Please be acquainted with my glora, the Lady Nelimbra.”

Attitudes to Sex and Adultery

Impilturian attitudes to sex are open and free, mirroring most of the Realms generally. The fact that the Triad is the prevalent faith in the land does not detract from this for while those faiths are rigid in their attitude to justice, the difference between right and wrong and alleviating the suffering of others, they do not pass judgement on love or sex, save where those attitudes conflict. There is a small, outlier sect of Ilmater/Sharess worshippers known as the “Steel Lily” who are into sadomasochism, bondage and other such sexual practices but they are very much in the minority.

While Impilturian society has its share of prudes and conservative people when it comes to sex, that is a reflection of the prevalence of such individuals in any social spectrum and is no greater or lesser than anywhere else in the Realms.

Virginity is not something that is prized in Impilturian society and has no value in terms of prospective unions, save again where an individual might value such for their own personal predilections or desires. For the nobility and royalty however, the attitude to virginity is occasionally different but only because most noble houses use their children as a commodity, using liaisons and unions to further wealth, status and a family’s ambitions. Some nobles seek or require virgin brides or grooms but this is not universal.

Adultery doesn’t involve social stigma either in Impiltur save and except where it leads to inappropriate fallout such as a criminal act, damage to property or persons, the suffering of children, etc. The general attitude of the lower and middle classes to adultery is “if it’s not hurting anyone, then it’s none of my business”. For the nobility, many noble “glorals” can be voided if adultery can be proven but most nobles are pragmatic about such things and it is commonplace for both sexes to have lovers and mistresses. Discretion is usually the watchword but there are several noble couples who have “open glorals” and do not suffer socially for that fact.

The chapbooks take a more “romantic” view of adultery however and it is often used as a basis to either exit an unhappy union (because you’ve been cheated on yourself or have succumbed to the charms of someone worthier and seek to leave and unhappy or abusive relationship). That latter trope usually involves an “exotic” individual who sweeps someone off their feet or a location where they can escape to and create a new life. For some unknown reason Impilturian chapbooks commonly use hulking Rashemi barbarian males or dark-skinned exotic Turmish women in that context and the places to “escape to” are most commonly the Moonshaes, the Pirate Isles or the trackless Shaar.

Courtship

In lower and middle class society there is no bar or stigma to individuals showing an interest in the opposite or same sex and spending time together. If such interactions occur during leisure time, this is commonplace and passes without comment. Of course, individual families and personalities may have a different attitude to such liaisons but this occurs on a case by case basis.

A more formal courtship situation arises where an individual wishes to spend time with their chosen “other” in the company of that individual’s family or household. In such situations this usually involves meeting them (obviously!) and seeking and gaining the approval of the head(s) of the household. When such approval is given, then opposite families can meet without any expectation or obligation and the two individuals can interact with an understanding that they have chosen to look at establishing a monogamous relationship. In such situations “sleepovers” are acceptable, but not necessarily sexual.

If you are formally courting an individual who is not a noble or a royal, it is common for both males and females to wear a scarlet ribbon or scarf in their hair, or around the head, neck or upper arm as desired. Such a display tells someone that a person is essentially “off limits”: “Don’t even bother Targaun! She smiles in scarlet!”. But it is a not so subtle sign when you meet someone new who you are interested in to remove said ribbon or scarf and instead loop it around your wrist to show that you are “available” or “interested”. This is usually done just before an introduction or meeting. In romantic chapbook literature (and occasionally in real life) this is taken a step further with individuals taking their scarf/ribbon and placing it on another. Such overt actions are not commonplace however.

The nobility and royals have their own version of this in that they use gemstones, particularly rubies (although garnets and other reddish gems will work also) to signify that they are “taken”. A ruby ring, bracelet or necklace/choker are the usual signifiers and many popular romantic chapbooks have titles such as “The Damsel with Two Rubies and a Single Heart” or “A Garnet Lost”, etc.

Courtship is otherwise pretty standard. Inappropriate courtship behaviours (other than “standards” such as disrespecting a prospective partner or their family, verbal abuse and violence) are usually confined to taking advantage of a situation or individual from a financial perspective. While it is okay for a poor family (noble or otherwise) to aspire upwards and seek to form an advantageous union for their son or daughter, it is considered unseemly for a wealthy individual or their family to press their suit by placing financial pressure on another individual or family (i.e. buying up a family or individual’s debts and offering to “waive” it in exchange for a union, etc.). This occasionally occurs with rich middle class merchants seeking to “buy” a noble title for their son or daughter by marrying into an impoverished noble family. It happens, but there is a social stigma that comes with it.


Manners and Etiquette

As noted in my Dragon #346 Impiltur article, an emphasis on “good works” and doing charity activities is always considered fit and proper behaviour. Impilturian good manners do not differ from what one would expect in our own modern society, but there are some small differences in terms of how adults interact as set out here.

When greeting an individual, if known to you, males will clasp forearms with another male while clasping the hand of a female with their own beneath hers. Women will greet another familiar female by clasping both their hands. If someone you are being introduced to is not familiar to you, then at first instance men will half-bow to other males and clasp both of their own hands together and nod toward a female. Women will nod in return to males. Women will clasp a single hand with another female. A first introduction requires you to give your full name (and if it is not given is considered to be an insult in “normal” interactions). Interactions that are not considered normal are visiting a festhall, a covert meeting for business or intrigue, etc. In such situations you can just give a name (first or last) or use a cognomen.

Noble and royal interactions are quite a bit more formal. When a commoner first meets a noble or royal formally then they are required to make a full bow, and then a short bow thereafter. Nobles have a more elaborate bow which involves their right hand and arm sweeping in a clockwise direction as they bow and finishing at the small of their back (so their right hand can be seen and they cannot draw a blade). Women will curtsey and do so with head downcast for royalty. Noble women meeting other noble women who they are familiar with will double kiss (i.e. each cheek).

When eating, table manners allow for someone to use their fingers when eating meat, poultry or fish even though cutlery is available for the middle and upper classes. All people in polite society use a kerchief to wipe their fingers and mouth when dining. Lower born individuals usually just use their clothes! Similarly, lower born commoners usually eat using only their belt knife. Wasting food is a big no-no. An individual should take enough to sate their hunger (taking seconds is not frowned upon if there is enough extra food to go round) but leaving food on your plate to be thrown away is not considered appropriate in polite society.

On that, in terms of social interactions where you have been invited by someone for a meal or some other event, it is customary and considered to be good manners to bring a small gift (fruit, preserves, flowers, a modest keepsake, etc,) for your host. It is considered bad manners to bring alcohol to a social gathering you are not hosting.

In general terms, the “common touch” is a social grace that is aspired to by most polite upper class society. Again, in the context of the aforementioned “good works”. So helping the poor or infirm, nursing the sick, assisting orphans or widows/widowers and doing so with patience, understanding and empathy provides great social “brownie points”.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 01 Nov 2019 16:20:10
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AJA
Learned Scribe

USA
338 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2019 :  23:18:14  Show Profile Send AJA a Private Message  Reply with Quote

George,

I'm reading through the history sections of Under Illefarn Anew (and once again excellent work to all involved, it cannot be said enough) but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the Phalorm/Delimbyran/Kingdom of Man section.

Basically, I'm not following along with this;

On p.22 (Annotated version, if it matters), under the Delimbiyran, Kingdom of Man entry, it states;
quote:
King Javilarhh II built a new kingdom called Delimbiyran and renamed House Snowsword to be the House of Man

That's fine; I can follow the difference between Javilarhh I (Shining Kingdom of Delimbyran, dominion of Phalorm) and Javilarhh II (Delimbyran, the independent Kingdom of Man). That also follows the information given in Lost Empires of Faerûn, p.44.

But on p.23, under the table for Snowsword/House of Man Dynasty it says
quote:
Haryd I Snowsword; founded Delimbyran, Kingdom of Man
(born before Javilarhh II and the given date of 616DR lines up with the timeline on p.29)


Also, looking farther back, on Page 2 of your "Questions for" thread, you posted a different lineage (I'm assuming an early draft, but added here anyway);
quote:
Javilarhh I, "the Dark" Born: 479DR Reigned: 511DR-528DR
Darnorth I Born: 502DR Reigned: 528DR-559DR
Darnorth II Born: 530DR Reigned: 559DR-594DR
Javilarhh II Born: 563DR Reigned: 594DR-646DR
Haryd I Born: 599DR Reigned: 646DR-665DR
Haryd II, "the Brave" Born: 627DR Reigned: 665DR-688DR
Haryd III Born: 655DR Reigned: 688DR-695DR
Davyd I Born: 677DR Reigned: 695DR-697DR

My assumption is that the Snowsword/House of Man Dynasty table is incorrect, but I'd like to know for sure what I'm missing.
So....?


EDIT:
Out of curiosity (he says innocently), in regards to the Endless Battle, which of House of Man ruler would you say best fits the epithet of "the Marching King (The Trod of Steel and Terrible Swift Sentence)"?


AJA
YAFRP

Edited by - AJA on 08 Nov 2019 00:32:46
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