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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2018 :  09:24:32  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Garelaun "the Grim" Dorothan

Born in 1301 DR and died in 1370 DR, unexpectedly of heartstop. Born in the village of Torbmarsh, north of Sarshel, he signed up as a caravan guard in his youth and after a few seasons in that role, joined the Brotherhood of the Bound Harpy adventuring band, out of Telflamm in 1326 DR. Their exploits were unremarkable until their discovery of an ancient tomb in the depths of the Rawlinswood in 1331 DR. Their explorations unleashed a nalfeshnee demon who slew half the party and hunted the remainder for several days until they reached the relative safety of Bezentil. Going their separate ways, Garelaun went back to caravan guarding, making several long runs south to the Old Empires. In 1335 DR met and fell in love with Ulthia Stagstar, of the rich merchant family of that name in Laothkund. Their match was not welcomed by her family and they eloped, travelling by sea to Cimbar where Garelaun had connections, and finding employment as a short term body guard for nobles and travellers to the city.

Ulthia tragically died in childbirth in 1338 DR, and with her their unborn son. Devastated, Garelaun left Chessenta, taking ship back to Impiltur and returning to Torbmarsh. There he fell out with his older brothers, who were effectively running the family farm. Believing himself not cut out for the adventuring life and having little true interest in agrarian pursuits, Garelaun joined the Warsword in 1340 DR. He served in the Blacksword (that part of the Warsword based in and around Ilmwatch) and soon was recognised for his cool head, personal discipline and no-nonsense demeanour. His experience soon saw him promoted and after some 20 years of meritorious service he retired from the Warsword in 1361 DR as he had come to the attention of Lord Haelimbrar of the Council of Lords who recruited him to his household to lead his personal estate guards (Lord Haelimbrar has two estates: Cleftfall Keep near to Tower Ithfell and Sungrove Manor, west of Lyrabar).

Garelaun lived at Sungrove Manor and after some time noticed the attentions of the oft-visiting, young Imbrar who would gaze on as he drilled the estate guards and conducted weapons training. With Lord Haelimbrar's approval, young Imbrar was allowed to conduct gymnastics and exercises with the troops, and Garelaun taught him the rudiments of how to hold a weapon, don armor and use a shield. He also saw to the young king's physical activities - encouraging him to run and remain active - and ensuring that he ate healthily. In addition, Imbrar was allowed to go hunting with Garelaun and other trusted retainers and he learned how to skin and butcher game, and hurl weapons and use a bow.

The sudden death of Garelaun was a blow for young Imbrar who had come to love the gruff, taciturn armsman. But coming as it did on the eve of his 12th birthday, Imbar was not to know that his training in earnest was being organised by the Council and the Queen-Regent.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 19 Aug 2018 09:36:22
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4203 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2018 :  15:57:49  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi George,

Probably the first of many questions about the tyrants of Thay.

First is an assumption I'm making, that the athora like other weave anchors, contains a sentience merged into it (like the nether scrolls), probably the sarrukh that found it.

So how did Eltab's binding (and summoning - curious wording, I presume this does not refer to when Narfell summoned him as that was a long way away) interact with the athora, could his binding using it have corrupted the sentience merged with it, that evil and corrupt weave anchor could be responsible for the persistently evil Thayan society.
Did the athora help fuel Eltab's demoncysts somehow (I like to think of Eltab's cancerous cysts growing and spreading steadily).

Did the athora affect Eltab's original movement during the great conflagration (I recall he avoided the Thaymount) perhaps he sensed the immense source of magic. Perhaps this was at a time when he didn't understand the extent of the adamantine binding. Could he perhaps have deliberately ventured towards the thaymount during the fall of eltabranar to see if he could tap that power to break his binding.

Ps love the new article

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Demzer
Senior Scribe

658 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2018 :  17:21:14  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi George,

I've a question regarding Lost Empires of Faerun, I'm trying with you since the authors are not active anymore on these forums and you are listed as one of the developers (and it's Eltab-related).

During completely unrelated research I stumbled by chance on a reference to Wendonai "the Seducer" that said he was banished for 2000 years by a Mulhorandi cleric of Horus-Re. This came completely out of the blue for me since I always thought of Wendonai's role as one relegated only in elven lore. I chased the references and ended up on page 54 of LEoF where is stated that after falling out of favor with Lolth after -2549 he allied with Eltab and served as his emissary to Faerun "for several centuries" and then returned to Faerun for the last time in -623 summoned by a Nar demonbinder and was subsequently banished by a priest of Horus-Re with an epic spell for 2000 years.

This raises several questions and sent me on wild tangents checking timelines and looking for references, what follows is mere speculation but I would like to know any idea you might have on it and maybe you can answer some questions at the end.

So, that paragraph about Wendonai serving as Eltab emissary on Faerun is interesting because it happens way before the direct involvement of Eltab in the affairs of Narfell. I realised only due to this chance finding that it makes complete sense to have Wendonai involved with Narfell as he was the one setting up Narathmault for the Ilythiiri. Now from what I knew of Wendonai, he is the schemer type of behind the throne mastermind that delights in corruption, but he's not one of the big demon lords of the Abyss and, after his fall out of favor with Lolth, he lacked a "big" sponsor. Thus I see him as a savvy salesmen advertising to select few demon lords about the chances offered by the power hungry empire of Narfell and Orcus outbidding all the opposition (still have to decide exactly with what, souls? Servitor demons? Favours? Protection from Lolth?) and thus establishing his dominance. Of course the other demon lords interest was piqued and Wendonai managed to sell under the counter his connections separately to Graz'zt (who sired at least one Dynasty), Fraz'urb-luu (that probably kept his involvement very limited just to keep an eye on the others and scheme against them) and, as revealed by the LEoF excerpt, Eltab.
So Orcus was the first and most prominent, Graz'zt acted to counter Orcus power and was directly involved in the strife (which may have exposed Wendonai's multiple dealings) while Fraz'Urb-luu and Eltab took a more laid back approach of keeping tabs on the opposition. All the while Wendonai kept being the middleman (because he knew the secrets of Narathmault/Dun Tharos and the keys to the bindings of the hosts of demons already present, since he set the whole place up) and reaping in benefits probably from both sides, mortal and fiendish.

This suddendly changed when, instead of doing his own thing in the shadow, he was actually summoned and bound to service by a Nar demonbinder that then further humiliated him by sending him to actually fight the Mulhorandi (something so base and direct, not to mention a waste of his talents, that Wendonai probably found it utterly revolting) and when he was banished for 2000 years by a priest of Horus-Re s**t had definitely hit the fan and whatever projects he had for Faerun suddendly grinded to an halt.
Seeing as we now know that Fraz'urb-luu had a hand in revealing to the Narfelli how to summon and bind Eltab, it would be natural to think that he did the same to Wendonai (for unknown reasons). But looking at the timeline I see that Wendonai was summoned in -623, after the failed attempt of the invasion of Mulhorand by the first member of the Orgolath Dynasty descended from Graz'zt, the ones that had just ousted the first Orcus line from power.
So, instead of having Fraz'Urb-luu just casually revealing to the Narfelli how to bind such a powerful demon as Wendonai (not a demon lord but unique and powerful enough to warrant his own special ritual), I see it more fitting if Fraz'Urb-luu gave the relevant information to Orcus (Gods know in exchange of what) that was fuming at the discovery of Wendonai's double dealings (revealed by the Graz'zt sponsored coup) and was searching for a way to punish him.
At this point we have Wendonai first bound and forced to fight like a dretch and then forced back to the Abyss, away from his favourite playground and hunted by Orcus.
Now is the time when I see Wendonai's ties to Eltab come to full fruition (beside the scheming Fraz'Urb-luu, the other one of his "customers" yet not directly involved), since Graz'zt had his dynasty established now and Wendonai's services were not needed so spending resources to protect him was futile. So in exchange for protection I can see Eltab literally milking Wendonai for all possible useful informations on Toril, this would explain quite a few things: the ease with which he actually succeeded in conquering and holding the Raumathari-held Rashemen when other demon armies were not as efficient on the battlefield (otherwise Narfell would have won the war ages ago), his knowledge of the portal to the Council Hills originally used by Wendonai and the Ilythiiri to set up Narathmault, his escape from the Wychlaran in the far off Sharawood (probably another ancient Ilythiiri fortress/outpost revealed to him by Wendonai) where he tried to make his last stand, his persuasion that Orcus is responsible for his binding on Faerun (since Orcus did the same, revealing to mortals the summoning and binding rituals, to his buddy Wendonai and removing Eltab from the Abyss meant he could go after Wendonai unopposed).

Back to Wendonai, after Eltab's summoning on Toril he was left without sponsors again but probably by that time (about five hundred years later) Orcus rage was lessened (at least to the point where he focused on other more pressing matters like his struggles against the other demon lords). Forced to remain in the Abyss for 2000 years I can see several possible ways to kill time for him: he worked together with Ndulu to keep Eltab's territory from falling to the other demon lords, he worked for Fraz'Urb-luu (last of his old "customers") to expand his territories in the 248th Layer (probably undercover, such as directing most of Eltab/Ndulu's forces against the other demon lords forces and downplaying the conquests of the forces loyal to Fraz'Urb-luu) or he went his own indipendent way in search of other sponsors to drag into ever-expanding webs of intrigue. Whatever his fate, assuming he survives, I can see him keeping tabs on all the mortals (and their offsprings and down through the generations) that wronged him in order to be able to strike at their descendants (mainly descendants of the Narfelli demonbinders, which I see him identifying in some elements of the Red Wizards and maybe an handful of solitary spellcasters scattered in the Eastern Realms, and the Empire of Mulhorand) as soon as he is able to come back to his playground of choice in 1377.

Does the above make sense? Please feel free to confirm, deny and comment in any possible way.

Now some questions: any informations on the priest of Horus-Re that performed the banishing-on-steroids or on his family line, temple, specific order? He seems to be a pretty mighty fellow for not being an incarnation (he was not the Pharaoh and since he was in the church of Horus-Re I doubt he was an incarnation of another member of the pantheon). Also an epic spell that banishes powerful outsiders for 2000 years suggests that Mulhorand at the time had magic and weapons ready to confront summoned beings (which makes sense if they were keeping watch on Narfell and suspected future problems with them) but that they lost such magic by the time the Red Wizards succesfully revolted (and were probably not happy at discovering that the Hadryllis in Sultim was an excellent forgery ... I wonder if the Witches of Rashemen realised they had an hand in the founding of Thay by robbing Mulhorand of the weapon needed to kick Eltab's butt, that would be surely bad press for them if the matter became of public notice), so any idea what might have happened?
Regarding Eltab proper, how do you see his involvement with Narfell before his direct summoning and binding (if there was any, which now I think there was, through Wendonai)? He didn't try too hard to establish his own ruling dynasty but maybe he sponsored or sired some dignitaries of the Empire?
Would Wendonai's schemes find fertile soil in Undrek'Thoz, the segmented city populated by the descendants of the drow of Narathmault? It seems too peaceful of a place, sitting right below Thay but with no recorded history of strife between them and Mulhorand or Thay (even at it's weakest right after the indipendence), it seems they preferred to bother the elves in the Yuirwood instead of striking at the humans above their heads, which is strange, maybe there is something between them shielding the surface? Is the Athora to blame? And do the drow know or sense the presence of such an artifact?

Edited by - Demzer on 19 Aug 2018 17:26:29
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7587 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  00:39:26  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Demzer, on the above, one thing to consider about that priest of Horus-Re, we do have indications that there's more than one incarnation of a god active at any given time. Its not like the god-kings are serving as avatars, or like how the gods are portrayed in Stargate the tv series. If anything, it would almost be like the god-kings are serving as Tome of Magic brand binders... letting an intellect ride their consciousness in return for the blessings of that consciousness, but that consciousness is not in control.

Below are some of the the entries from Old Empires which seem to indicate that more than one incarnation can exist at a time. There are a few others as well.

At present, only one of the Zulkirs harbors an ambition to destroy Mulhorand. Lauzoril, Zulkir of the school of Enchantment and Charm, has allied with the Cult of Set to assassinate the incarnations of the god-king. His activities are not sanctioned by the other schools of Red Wizardry, but they would not mind if he succeeded.

The pharaoh is always male and always an incarnation of Horus-Re [except for a brief time after the loss of Thay, when an incarnation of Thoth took the throne (all of the other incarnations of Horus-Re were dead)].

The God-Kings: These are blood relatives of the incarnations, but no divine spirits reside within them. They are mortals with exceptional god-given abilities (high stats and levels), but they do not possess divine power. There are many god-kings in Mulhorand (see #147;Personalities,#148; page 30).


Now, I'm not saying that there are dozens of incarnations of each god. I'd bet though that there are likely two at a given time of the major gods, and lesser gods probably have a small chance of having multiple. In this way, the elder may rule as "THE" current incarnation, while the younger incarnation is in "training" to take over.

I actually also bet that there's some kind of actual ritual that isn't spoken of, but is performed, that awakens the power in a mortal's blood to gain the power of being an incarnation. From a game standpoint, I'd personally make incarnation something of a template that gets stacked on top of a character, and I'd have two versions of incarnation.... one for the lesser incarnation and one for the "CURRENT" incarnation. In fact, if THIS is done, you could conceivably have multiple lesser incarnations of a god running around and it not be game unbalancing, and a new ritual be performed to turn the lesser incarnation into the "active" one. Such a ritual might involve some kind of interaction with the actual manifestation itself to "further awaken the power in the blood".



Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  01:40:43  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Telegar Thistledorn

This individual is indeed a "loyal knight" of the realm but masquerades as a Knight of Imphras II when accompanying Imbrar in his guise as Sarshel of Laviguer. He has no formal affiliation with that order but wears their accoutrements when in this role. And yes, you have to be a paladin to be a Knight of Imphras II to qualify - he's not a paladin, merely a lowly (and deadly) fighter.

Telegar's title of "Throneblade" is that given to the formal bodyguard of the king (which Imbrar is, even though he doesn't rule). That title has changed from dynasty to dynasty in Impiltur. Telegar's ancestors were Heltharn retainers even before the time of Imphras the Great and his great-great-great-grandfather perished with KIng Imbrar in the Giantspires as a member of his Royal Guard.

Whilst the Knights of Imphras II have operated as the quasi-Royal Guard of Impiltur since their inception, the Council of Lords always saw fit to have a body of warriors beholden to them and the family as an alternative to this body. These individuals guard the Heltharn estates (as noted in the post about Garelaun) and are the most trusted of the individuals surrounding the throne. These retainers have filled the position of Throneblade since the time of King Lashilmbrar.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 10 Sep 2018 09:43:03
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  01:58:00  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Count Ulimbrar Thornspar

Ulimbrar was born in 1340 DR, and is the son of Erethella's younger sister Baranthra and therefore the nephew of the current matriarch of the house. He is a stolid, humourless individual with a steadfast devotion to Torm. His mother Baranthra was (and is) a straight laced, domineering type who is suffered by Erethella only because she has a keen eye for business and assists the family by astutely advising on financial affairs and investments. In fact, she's money and status obsessed - which is partly why Ulimbrar left the family to become a paladin and forsake worldly material possessions. His mother has never forgiven him.

The Thornspars don't follow the practice of other houses in preferring a male line of succession. The eldest child and their children rule the house and in this case, that is Erethella's line. The noble houses are able to sort out their own succession and don't have to follow the rules laid down in respect of the monarchy.

The "Revel Witches" are the granddaughters of Erethella's younger uncle Ebraun Thornspar, a debauched individual who died a few years ago after a life of excess. As such, they are Ulimbrar's second cousins, but he has very little to do with them. In fact they make him damn uncomfortable as they tease him (with good humour) and throw themselves all over him when they do see him, knowing that he hates it. The fact that their usual attire is skimpy to say the least, makes this even more problematic for him. As they say, you can't pick your family.

Imbrar has heard of the "Revel Witches" but has yet to meet them in the ... ahem ... flesh.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  02:09:06  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Hi George,

Probably the first of many questions about the tyrants of Thay.

First is an assumption I'm making, that the athora like other weave anchors, contains a sentience merged into it (like the nether scrolls), probably the sarrukh that found it.

So how did Eltab's binding (and summoning - curious wording, I presume this does not refer to when Narfell summoned him as that was a long way away) interact with the athora, could his binding using it have corrupted the sentience merged with it, that evil and corrupt weave anchor could be responsible for the persistently evil Thayan society.
Did the athora help fuel Eltab's demoncysts somehow (I like to think of Eltab's cancerous cysts growing and spreading steadily).

Did the athora affect Eltab's original movement during the great conflagration (I recall he avoided the Thaymount) perhaps he sensed the immense source of magic. Perhaps this was at a time when he didn't understand the extent of the adamantine binding. Could he perhaps have deliberately ventured towards the thaymount during the fall of eltabranar to see if he could tap that power to break his binding.

Ps love the new article



Glad you enjoyed it.

I'm not sure where you get that weave anchors contain a sentience. The copy of the Nether Scrolls stolen by the elves contained a sentience only because the elves desired a beneficial interface withe the scrolls tailored to them - that was the purpose of the High Magic ritual which transformed them.

In none of the information provided by Ed did it appear that the Athora contained a sentience. Of course, if you want it to, feel free.

As noted in the description of the item, the sheer magical power of the Athora boosts and bolsters magic in and around it. It also enhances the chance of successfully casting more powerful and complex magic - like the Orcgate, Eltab's summoning and imprisonment and the summoning of the avatar of Kossuth. I confined my thoughts to that aspect of the Athora's power.

Eltab didn't go near the Thayan Plateau after his Great Conflagration summoning because that's not what he was tasked to do: they summoned him to go after Rashemen, which was believed to be the roadblock in respect of defeating Raumathar.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  02:38:43  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

Hi George,

I've a question regarding Lost Empires of Faerun, I'm trying with you since the authors are not active anymore on these forums and you are listed as one of the developers (and it's Eltab-related).

<BIG SNIP>

Does the above make sense? Please feel free to confirm, deny and comment in any possible way.


All of this perfectly reasonable but I note that LEoF states that he's Eltab's emissary to Faerûn, not necessarily Narfell.

quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

Now some questions: any informations on the priest of Horus-Re that performed the banishing-on-steroids or on his family line, temple, specific order? He seems to be a pretty mighty fellow for not being an incarnation (he was not the Pharaoh and since he was in the church of Horus-Re I doubt he was an incarnation of another member of the pantheon).



I agree with sleyvas' comments on this. I always considered that there were a lot of incarnations and that in addition there was THE incarnation of a particular deity who had heightened powers to the others.

quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

Also an epic spell that banishes powerful outsiders for 2000 years suggests that Mulhorand at the time had magic and weapons ready to confront summoned beings (which makes sense if they were keeping watch on Narfell and suspected future problems with them) but that they lost such magic by the time the Red Wizards succesfully revolted (and were probably not happy at discovering that the Hadryllis in Sultim was an excellent forgery ... I wonder if the Witches of Rashemen realised they had an hand in the founding of Thay by robbing Mulhorand of the weapon needed to kick Eltab's butt, that would be surely bad press for them if the matter became of public notice), so any idea what might have happened?



I'd prefer not to postulate on how the real Hadryllis disappeared from Mulhorand. Why fill in that blank when it provides such juicy, potential stories going forward ...?

quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

Regarding Eltab proper, how do you see his involvement with Narfell before his direct summoning and binding (if there was any, which now I think there was, through Wendonai)? He didn't try too hard to establish his own ruling dynasty but maybe he sponsored or sired some dignitaries of the Empire?



You have to realise that the Crell Dynasty was started by the Orcus worshipping Thargaun, but that his successors had no great allegiance to the Abyss. The early Narfelli were fiend worshippers and summoners - generic fiend worshippers. They summoned devils, daemons and demons and used the Blood War to play off various factions against others for their personal power.

This attitude precipitated the Graz'zt sponsored coup of the Orgolath Dynasty, who succumbed to that demon prince of the Abyss' promises of power and wanted a "purer" Narfell than the disparate and disunited early version of that realm. It may have been that Eltab was making similar moves and promises which prompted Graz'zt to weaken his opponent's position by letting the Narfelli known the means by which they could summon Wendonai as a weapon in their attempt to overthrow the Old Empires. Lots of different permutation and options here.

quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

Would Wendonai's schemes find fertile soil in Undrek'Thoz, the segmented city populated by the descendants of the drow of Narathmault? It seems too peaceful of a place, sitting right below Thay but with no recorded history of strife between them and Mulhorand or Thay (even at it's weakest right after the indipendence), it seems they preferred to bother the elves in the Yuirwood instead of striking at the humans above their heads, which is strange, maybe there is something between them shielding the surface? Is the Athora to blame? And do the drow know or sense the presence of such an artifact?



Undrek'Thoz is an interesting place. And it does appear odd that they haven't really interacted with modern Thay. I can't say I've turned my mind as to why that might be. I know why they focused on the Yuir: that was because the elves of Myth Drannor created the new mythal city of Myth Tarranvar, which was considered a direct threat and something to be destroyed - which they did once its ties with the City of Song were severed following the Fall. Again, ample room for discussion and hypotheticals.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 20 Aug 2018 02:39:59
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  02:44:38  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks a bunch for the lore on Garelaun, Telegar, Ulimbrar and his family, George.

Also, I feel really out of the loop, what new article, where does one obtain it and what are the 'Tyrants of Thay'?

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  02:54:00  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Thanks a bunch for the lore on Garelaun, Telegar, Ulimbrar and his family, George.

Also, I feel really out of the loop, what new article, where does one obtain it and what are the 'Tyrants of Thay'?



PM me your e-mail address or e-mail me at krashos@optusnet.com.au for a copy.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  03:06:43  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On to things Impilturian and the convoluted family tree of the Heltharn family for Icelander.

Yes, there is a complete family tree of the Heltharns but it has never been publicly disseminated.

The date of Kuskur's birth in GhotR is wrong. The CoV date is correct and he's the eldest son from Imphras' second marriage.

Yes, the family tree you set out in your post on the "Impilturian Lore" thread is correct.

Some birth/death dates for you:

Soarimbrar "the Elder": b. 1243, d. 1294.
Verlimlaun: b. 1293, d. 1338.
Ilmara (daughter of Verimlaun): b. early 1334 and still alive.

Soarimbrar "the Elder" married late in life in 1285 DR to Ilsyndra Vilindeth. She died in 1328 DR of old age.

Verimlaun married Syndaera Hornwind in 1333 DR. She also died in 1338 DR.

Ilmara's husband is the nobleman Horgrim Garammon. He's a hale and hearty 49 as at the date of Imbrar's impending coronation and 9 years older than his wife.

Hope this is helpful.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  04:28:05  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Grand, George!

My thanks for the lore. Let me know if I've become importunate. Until such time, I'll hazard my luck to weasel a few more details of precious lore from ye.

I note that when Horgrim Garammon married Ilmara (must have been at least nine months before the end of 1350 DR), her brother Soarimbrar 'the Younger' still lived and could be expected to rule and have heirs of his own. Still, she was a 15-16 year old princess in a position to birth heirs who might ascend to the throne if her brother died before having male issue, a not unknown problem for kings.

Given that Ilmara was an orphan, who had to give consent for the marriage, which must have been considered of dynastic importance? She's likely to have been 'a ward of the Crown', but in practical terms, who stood in in loco parentis for her and Soarimbrar between 1338-1350? Queen-Regent Sambryl? One of the Lords of Imphras II? Or someone else?

I know Horgrim adopted the surname Heltharn upon the marriage, but what was his title (if any) before he married? And what is it in 1373 DR?

Also, what's his familial relationship with the other Garammons you've mentioned? If the young King Imbrar II has close relatives on his father's side, the Garammon noble family may be about to see their fortunes rise in his reign.

(And I haven't even mentioned Lothchas again, 'the Ice Gorge' and the circumstances of his possible demise, which I fully intend to do once you've had some breathing space)

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Edited by - Icelander on 20 Aug 2018 04:28:52
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  04:51:57  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Grand, George!

My thanks for the lore. Let me know if I've become importunate. Until such time, I'll hazard my luck to weasel a few more details of precious lore from ye.

I note that when Horgrim Garammon married Ilmara (must have been at least nine months before the end of 1350 DR), her brother Soarimbrar 'the Younger' still lived and could be expected to rule and have heirs of his own. Still, she was a 15-16 year old princess in a position to birth heirs who might ascend to the throne if her brother died before having male issue, a not unknown problem for kings.

Given that Ilmara was an orphan, who had to give consent for the marriage, which must have been considered of dynastic importance? She's likely to have been 'a ward of the Crown', but in practical terms, who stood in in loco parentis for her and Soarimbrar between 1338-1350? Queen-Regent Sambryl? One of the Lords of Imphras II? Or someone else?

I know Horgrim adopted the surname Heltharn upon the marriage, but what was his title (if any) before he married? And what is it in 1373 DR?

Also, what's his familial relationship with the other Garammons you've mentioned? If the young King Imbrar II has close relatives on his father's side, the Garammon noble family may be about to see their fortunes rise in his reign.

(And I haven't even mentioned Lothchas again, 'the Ice Gorge' and the circumstances of his possible demise, which I fully intend to do once you've had some breathing space)



You're very lucky at the moment as I am off work on holidays!

Horgrim and Ilmara were married in very late 1349 DR. It wasn't normal form for the Heltharns to marry at such a young age but given that both her parents were dead, it was considered an appropriate match. In the intervening period, Ilmara and Soarimbrar were under the care of their aunt Almarae (b. 1289 DR), Verlimlaun's older sister. She was married to Lord Hlandrar Eirlthaun, but theirs was a barren marriage both in terms of love and children. Aunt Almarae was a shrew, bitter and sarcastic and full of cutting comments. Ilmara left that household as soon as she possibly could.

Horgrim is a younger cousin of the Garammon family and not in the direct succession. As such, he is simply a "lord" (or in Damaran a "dar"). Of course, the head of the Garammon family Felimbrar takes pains to keep a good relationship with him. Given Felimbrar is a bit strict and stuffy, that's always an interesting interaction. Imbrar does spend time on occasion with the younger (and very much more sheltered) House Garammon heir Imphras, who is a bit like the little brother he never had. Imbrar very much misses his big brother, whom he remembers only fleetingly.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  18:34:29  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks again, George.

The poor Heltharns don't seem to have much luck, with most of them leading fairly melancholy lives. The young orphans, Ilmara and Soarimbrar, shuttled off to a loveless home with a bitter shrew of an aunt, he dies before reaching the age of majority, while she's lost a son, and Imbrar a brother.

Can I at least imagine that Ilmara and Horgrim were happy in their marriage?

In Earth history, for a noblewoman to give birth to a live child at sixteen and then not until she is twenty four, and then despite having a very strong incentive to have more children, not doing so again, it would suggest that there might be a problem with giving birth of healthy children, perhaps because of a narrow pelvis. Or perhaps there were several miscarriages or difficult births where the children did not survive.

On the other hand, with the magical and clerical resources to a princess of a powerful kingdom, that is perhaps not as likely in the Realms.

Hopefully, between Imphras and Imbrar, Ilmara and Horgrim had two or three healthy girls that weren't recorded in the GHotR dynasty list, and were deliriously happy. At least one Heltharn ought to be.

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Edited by - Icelander on 20 Aug 2018 18:34:52
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  19:00:41  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Thanks again, George.

The poor Heltharns don't seem to have much luck, with most of them leading fairly melancholy lives. The young orphans, Ilmara and Soarimbrar, shuttled off to a loveless home with a bitter shrew of an aunt, he dies before reaching the age of majority, while she's lost a son, and Imbrar a brother.

Can I at least imagine that Ilmara and Horgrim were happy in their marriage?

In Earth history, for a noblewoman to give birth to a live child at sixteen and then not until she is twenty four, and then despite having a very strong incentive to have more children, not doing so again, it would suggest that there might be a problem with giving birth of healthy children, perhaps because of a narrow pelvis. Or perhaps there were several miscarriages or difficult births where the children did not survive.

On the other hand, with the magical and clerical resources to a princess of a powerful kingdom, that is perhaps not as likely in the Realms.

Hopefully, between Imphras and Imbrar, Ilmara and Horgrim had two or three healthy girls that weren't recorded in the GHotR dynasty list, and were deliriously happy. At least one Heltharn ought to be.



Well you could think that, but the Realms is a dangerous world, just like ours. Bad things happen every day.

And you have to feel sorry for Almarae, for she wasn't always like that. In fact in her youth she used to be bright, vivacious and an absolute sweetheart. But losing the love of your life after only 3 years of marriage, not having children, and finding that to you, no other man really measures up can make you a little bitter and twisted when you are a widow for over 40 years. Sure, she could have loved her brother's kids like her own - and she did love them in terms of looking after them, protecting them, etc.: she nursed poor Imphras V from the day he took ill to the day of his passing. In fact is it thought that nursing him broke her own health leading to her demise the year after his - but she wasn't great at showing it and even more poor at communicating it.

Indeed, Ilmara has two daughters, Syndaera (b. 1353 DR) and Hamalia (b. 1356 DR). Imbrar's older sisters dote on him and he loves them dearly, even if he doesn't show it much because he is a teen and like "the king!"

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
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Posted - 20 Aug 2018 :  21:23:50  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi George,

Random question about Sarphil and Dareth and the Old Empires.

I keep finding detail about dwarves around the Semphar/Murghom area that left the region after mines played out. This group of dwarves supposedly moved on to found Dareth and also created the Citadel of Black Ash (before it was named thus by Gilgeam).

Now Dareth is a long way away and I don't envisage the dwarves just headed straight there (how would they know what they are looking for firstly). So I'm imagining along the way to Dareth a number of dwarfholds were founded as they moved north through Thay, Thesk, the Vast/Galenas and north to Dareth.

Buuut, the implication from other sources I find is that Sarphil is founded by dwarves out of Shanatar as part of the dwarven diaspora, but I get the feeling that when Great Bhaerynden was destroyed some dwarves went to Murghom/Semphar and the mountains around there and remained there until -7600 when they retook the Great Rift. The mines then played out in the region and the dwarves abandoned it (might explain why steel is little used in Unther/Mulhorand as it is in short supply).

Have you any thoughts on Sarphil and its original founding (not its refounding). The dwarven migrations are a bit messy and I know you and Eric worked on them a little bit.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2018 :  00:08:36  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great lore, George!

So the young King-to-be Imbrar II has two sisters to marry off to important lynchpins of his Greater Impiltur dream? Say, to a son of King Gareth Dragonsbane*, or, of course, to Thultyrl Rendeth of the Royal Blood. Unless there are some obstacles in the way, like Horgrim and Ilmara having already consented to a marriage for Syndaera (at twenty, she might well be married already) and Hamalia. Or King Imbrar II thinking that no one lesser than Torm the True himself is worthy of marrying his sisters.

*If King Gareth has managed to sire such a thing on Queen Christine, that is. It would be perfect if they'd gotten around to having an heir in 1359-1360 DR, just after they married, but in a pinch, a few more years of age difference won't necessarily be a deal breaker to a dynastic marriage.

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Edited by - Icelander on 21 Aug 2018 00:37:11
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2018 :  03:25:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Hi George,

Random question about Sarphil and Dareth and the Old Empires.

I keep finding detail about dwarves around the Semphar/Murghom area that left the region after mines played out. This group of dwarves supposedly moved on to found Dareth and also created the Citadel of Black Ash (before it was named thus by Gilgeam).

Now Dareth is a long way away and I don't envisage the dwarves just headed straight there (how would they know what they are looking for firstly). So I'm imagining along the way to Dareth a number of dwarfholds were founded as they moved north through Thay, Thesk, the Vast/Galenas and north to Dareth.

But the implication from other sources I find is that Sarphil is founded by dwarves out of Shanatar as part of the dwarven diaspora, but I get the feeling that when Great Bhaerynden was destroyed some dwarves went to Murghom/Semphar and the mountains around there and remained there until -7600 when they retook the Great Rift. The mines then played out in the region and the dwarves abandoned it (might explain why steel is little used in Unther/Mulhorand as it is in short supply).

Have you any thoughts on Sarphil and its original founding (not its refounding). The dwarven migrations are a bit messy and I know you and Eric worked on them a little bit.



The write-up of Dareth in FR11 "Dwarves Deep" (p.54) makes it clear that the dwarves who first settled here came from worked out mines/holds "in the mountains south and west of Unther and Mulhorand". That gives you the Great Rift, the Uthangol Mountains, etc. Dareth was founded in -2642 DR according to the sources.

The exodus from Bhaerynden to establish what will be Shanatar occurs in -11000 DR. Bhaerynden itself falls in -9000 DR. The dwarves return to what is now the Great Rift in c. -7600 DR. From where the dwarves "return" is not stated. Could be a reverse exodus from Shanatar or more likely from minor dwarf holds in the surrounding region that the dwarves established after the fall of Bhaerynden, united under some great leader to "reclaim their birthright".

GHotR surprisingly doesn't give us the founding date of Sarphil, which is -7500 DR according to "Cormanthyr" and "Serpent KIngdoms". I don't think that the dwarves would have re-established themselves in the Great Rift and then a century later travelled a long way north to establish Sarphil. The founding date of Sarphil speaks of a longer, slower migration north by the dwarves.

My view is that there were two migrations. The first after the fall of Bhaerynden saw dwarves travel north (for there were no Old Empires at that time) and then under the Sea of Fallen Stars to emerge in the Earthspurs and ultimately found Sarphil. This took a while and they left some dwarf holds along the way (ala Ironfang Keep (or Deep) in the mountains of Turmish depending on which version/spelling you prefer).

The second migration founded Dareth and went east and north up through the Sunrise Mountains, probably from around -3000 DR. It was likely caused by dwarves seeking to escape the well-established clans and holdings of the gold dwarves of the Great Rift. Of course some of that migration may have looked to reclaim some of the ancient workings in Murghom and Semphar and likely accounts for the current-day dwarves of the Firepeaks and Mountains of Copper. Again, there are no Old Empires at this time (and won't be for 5-8 centuries). Imaskar is there of course but it would appear that the dwarves skirted that great empire and sought to avoid its attentions or were suffered to live in Imaskari territory as long as they traded and forged with the Artificers. It may well have been a match made in heaven for those dwarves who hung around in that region and did not continue north. The sources make it clear that the Raumathari at the very least had an accomodation with the dwarves of the region.

So anyway, that's my take. I am firmly of the view that Sarphil was not established by Shanataran dwarves or dwarves from any of the other North Kingdoms.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2018 :  03:39:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Great lore, George!

So the young King-to-be Imbrar II has two sisters to marry off to important lynchpins of his Greater Impiltur dream? Say, to a son of King Gareth Dragonsbane*, or, of course, to Thultyrl Rendeth of the Royal Blood. Unless there are some obstacles in the way, like Horgrim and Ilmara having already consented to a marriage for Syndaera (at twenty, she might well be married already) and Hamalia. Or King Imbrar II thinking that no one lesser than Torm the True himself is worthy of marrying his sisters.

*If King Gareth has managed to sire such a thing on Queen Christine, that is. It would be perfect if they'd gotten around to having an heir in 1359-1360 DR, just after they married, but in a pinch, a few more years of age difference won't necessarily be a deal breaker to a dynastic marriage.



The 4E FR Campaign Book makes it clear that Gareth Dragonsbane had heirs (his last heir is said to have been killed "20 years ago") but that his line died out and that a Yarin Frostmantle is now ruler of Damara. I can see there being dynastic ties between Damara and Impiltur, because there have been already (at least in my Realms): the reigning King Aeldrin of Damara married Sambral, sister to King Rilimbrar, in 1303DR.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 21 Aug 2018 03:40:04
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2018 :  20:14:25  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Connections between the Heltharn dynasty of Impiltur and the Bloodfeathers of Damara

If King Virdin Bloodfeathers of Damara was a 'young king' when he died in 1357 DR by order of Zhengyi the Witch-King, he was probably the grandson of King Aeldrin and Queen Sambral Ilmara (m. 1303 DR) of Damara. If I'm not way off base with that guess, it would make him the first cousin once removed of Queen-Regent Sambryl of Impiltur.

Assuming that any other surviving members of the royal family of Damara were among the 'most loyal and powerful nobles' of Damara that the forces of the Grandfather of Assassins slew on behalf of the Witch-King in that one bloody night in 1357 DR, it adds a touch of personal tragedy for Queen Sambryl to the fall of the allied kingdom of Damara, as she lost cousins, perhaps quite a lot of them.

That certainly justifies the personal interest that the Lords of Impras II took in chaotic Damara in these years, as well as providing a reason they might not have taken King Gareth Dragonsbane at face value and welcomed him as a trusted allied sovereign immediately, as he was effectively replacing a dynasty that had become linked with the Heltharn dynasty.

Some of the Lords of Imphras II might instead have wished to support an Impilturan to the throne of Damara, someone who would be Sambral's Ilmara's heir by Impilturan law. That may be one of the reasons why the Lords Haelimbrar and Lashilaun rode with the Twilight Riders in disguise in the year when Baron Gareth Dragonsbane was gathering support and power to become King of Damara.

King-to-be Imbrar II and Dynastic Marriages

I don't mean to imply that I necessarily intend to have King Imbrar II succeed at all his grand plans or even to come across like a sly, manipulative Hapsburg aunt plotting continental dominion through the dynastic marriage bed.*

It's just, where we currently are in our campaign, King-to-be Imbrar II is coming into his own as a precocious, ambitious, and awesomely gifted 'Young Alexander' type of warrior king and what this prodigiously gifted young man does over the next few years is probably going to be a source of news, adventure hooks and unintended consequences for PCs with ties to the Vast. Especially PCs who are Ravens Bluff nobility, with personal relationships with nobles in Tantras and a friendly acquaintanceship with Thultyrl Rendeth of the Royal Blood of Procampur himself.

Having studied his histories, King-to-be Imbrar II must be aware of the value of dynastic marriages in forging a strong realm with secure allegiances. Of course, no matter how gifted, Imbrar cannot have much political experience at age 15**, so it's likely that his plans will be somewhat naive, simplistic and fail to take into account the fact that people are not just 'good' (and on his side) and 'evil' (and thus foes to be slain).

Thus, in my campaign, King-to-be Imbrar II probably looks at the benefits that he believes would ensue from an eventual annexation of Procampur*** to Impiltur through a dynastic marriage and imagines that Thultyrl Rendeth of the Royal Blood, being a good and wise ruler, can be brought around to see his point of view.

It won't necessarily occur to the young king (or least be sufficiently accounted for in his mind) that nobles of Procampur and Tsurlagol, let alone other cities of the Vast, can oppose his grand vision out of conservative distrust of imperial Impiltur, reactionary nationalism, narrow dynastic or economic self-interest or any other of a wide range of reasons that don't just boil down to 'being evil and a foe of the Triad'.

Incidentally, Thultyrl Rendeth/Rendath of the Royal Blood is noted as being 'young' in 1357-1359 DR and 1372 DR, which I imagine makes him 16-20 years old in the prior period and in his early thirties in 1372 DR. Given that Thultyrl Rendath/Rendeth of the Royal Blood was already an 11th level Cavalier in 1357 DR (and an 11th level Fighter [presumably with the Cavalier kit] in 1359 DR), maybe he ought to be at least twenty, unless he was similarly precocious and martially gifted as King-to-be Imbrar II in his youth.

Thultyrl Rendeth is specified as being unmarried and without heirs in 1359 DR, but no mention is made of a wife and/or heirs (or lack thereof) in the FRCS in 1372 DR. In my campaign, I've chosen to have him unwilling to marry because of a broken heart, after the love of his youthful career as a questing cavalier died before he could marry her. I haven't elaborated on that backstory, but probably will need to do so when the PCs next pay a visit to Procampur.

Granted, Thultyrl Rendeth could be queerer than a three dollar note, but in that case, it shouldn't really interfere with him marrying and siring heirs for dynastic reasons, especially not if all his nobles and advisers keep pushing him to do so. Better if he is a romantic who wants to marry for love, but can't find anyone who (in his mind) compares to the love of his youth.

Of course, Thultyrl Rendeth is a thoroughly nice guy, having obeyed a Cavalier's Code at least until 1357 DR and been listed as Neutral Good in all sources where his alignment is listed. He also seems incredibly loyal and trusting, not having developed any suspicions of Hamayarch Alamondh despite his closest adviser and real ruler of the city having been an evil mage in disguise, plotting against him, at least since 1359 DR and the people of the city having started gossiping about their distrust of the Hamayarch.

Though, you know, it would be a real boon to Impiltur's fortuntes in the 1370s if the Heltharns happened to count a royal matchmaking figure of advancing years to provide wise counsel to the young king and his unmarried relatives. Is there anyone of that nature in your Impiltur?
**Granted, G. Octavius Thurinus (Octavianus, later Augustus), was the most astute political operator of 1st century BCE Rome, certainly a place filled with scheming, manipulative politicians, before he was twenty. But you described Imbrar as a 'young Alexander', not a 'young Octavian', and it might be piling blessings upon genius to make King-to-be Imbrar II a combination of two of the most naturally gifted youths in history.
***And if Procampur were once more a part of Impiltur, the economic, military and political realities would exert a very strong pull toward making Tsurlagol and the rest of the Dragonshoulder again Impilturan, as they would hardly have the strength to resist, and would need an allegiance against various threats from the Earthfasts in any case.

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Edited by - Icelander on 23 Aug 2018 12:06:22
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 21 Aug 2018 :  21:48:19  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Protectors of King-to-be Imbrar II

Related to our discussion, George, I came across something Eytan Bernstein wrote about Impiltur and the protection of its secret royal heir.

quote:
Originally written by Eytan Bernstein in Class Chronicles: Psionic Classes

Based in Impiltur, there is a unit of the Knights of Imphras II known as the Order of the Bladewright. These soulknives serve their country, dedicating themselves, body and mind, to the protection of the hidden Boy King, who is himself secretly a member of the Knights of Imphras II. Considering the frequent assassinations of kings in Impiltur's history, the crown is taking no chances with its heir, keeping him under constant protection despite his many protests.


Is this Order something that you would use in your Impiltur, George?

If you would, do you have thoughts on why these knights would call themselves 'The Order of the Bladewright'? Is there a Triad saint or Impilturan legend about a heroic blademaker?

I know that psionic soulknives can make semi-solid mind blades and that 'bladewright' might just refer to that ability, but the use of the singular in the name of the Order seems to suggest that they are referencing someone that Impilturan people would recognise, even if that allusion is made because of their own mind blade ability.

Also, if you were to use this Order of the Bladewright in your Impiltur, would you have any ideas for important members of the Order?

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas

Edited by - Icelander on 21 Aug 2018 23:59:42
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Asharak
Learned Scribe

France
179 Posts

Posted - 22 Aug 2018 :  19:19:16  Show Profile  Visit Asharak's Homepage Send Asharak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Thanks a bunch for the lore on Garelaun, Telegar, Ulimbrar and his family, George.

Also, I feel really out of the loop, what new article, where does one obtain it and what are the 'Tyrants of Thay'?



PM me your e-mail address or e-mail me at krashos@optusnet.com.au for a copy.

-- George Krashos



Hello, i'm interesting too. Can you send me a copy ?

I send you a PM.

Thanks.

"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"

Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2018 :  02:22:57  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Protectors of King-to-be Imbrar II

Related to our discussion, George, I came across something Eytan Bernstein wrote about Impiltur and the protection of its secret royal heir.

quote:
Originally written by Eytan Bernstein in Class Chronicles: Psionic Classes

Based in Impiltur, there is a unit of the Knights of Imphras II known as the Order of the Bladewright. These soulknives serve their country, dedicating themselves, body and mind, to the protection of the hidden Boy King, who is himself secretly a member of the Knights of Imphras II. Considering the frequent assassinations of kings in Impiltur's history, the crown is taking no chances with its heir, keeping him under constant protection despite his many protests.


Is this Order something that you would use in your Impiltur, George?

If you would, do you have thoughts on why these knights would call themselves 'The Order of the Bladewright'? Is there a Triad saint or Impilturan legend about a heroic blademaker?

I know that psionic soulknives can make semi-solid mind blades and that 'bladewright' might just refer to that ability, but the use of the singular in the name of the Order seems to suggest that they are referencing someone that Impilturan people would recognise, even if that allusion is made because of their own mind blade ability.

Also, if you were to use this Order of the Bladewright in your Impiltur, would you have any ideas for important members of the Order?



Oh I include everything, no matter how much I have to smash that square peg into the round hole.

In the time of King Amarkos I of the Durlarven Dynasty (a confident and headstrong type, who would often take leave of his palace and guards and roam the countryside mixing with his subjects) the king was passing through the village of Narlburg, north of Lyrabar, when bandits decided to waylay the villagers and rob them of their scant coin. Amarkos took them on by himself but was sorely pressed, despite his magical protections, when the local smith, the burly Dorbol Laffos, snatched up a near-finished blade he had been toiling on for the village elder and came to his aid. Defeating the bandits, the grateful king made Dorbol a knight of the realm, and after consulting with the Royal Herald, his heraldic symbol was confirmed a silver sword standing upright above a black forge on an azure field and his "house" was dubbed House Bladewright. Dorbol's noble status ceased with his passing but the story of his defence of the king was made into a song by the local minstrel Tormolar "the Golden-Voiced" Essul - "The Ballad of the Bladewright" - and so his memory lived on in Impilturian folklore.

As noted, the Knights of Imphras II are the quasi-royal bodyguard of Imbrar II. Within their number are a dozen or so paladins who due to bloodlines stretching back to distant Jhaamdath, have nurtured a talent for the Invisible Art (the term "psionics" is not used in the Realms) and become multi-classed Mystics (see 5E Unearthed Arcana). These paladins call themselves the Order of the Bladewright due to their ability to manifest weapons using the Invisible Art (in game terms they have taken the Order of the Soul Knife option) and the fact that they are tasked with guarding the young king in situations where weapons cannot be carried (occasional diplomatic visits, religious events, etc.) - harking back to the tale of Dorbol and his defence of his king. That moniker is an informal one, used among themselves, but the leaders of the Knights are aware of it and have no issue with its use among the rank and file. If enough individuals can be found who have these particular talents, the Order of the Bladewright might one day become a full-fledged sub-order of the Knights of Imphras II.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2018 :  02:45:42  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Connections between the Heltharn dynasty of Impiltur and the Bloodfeathers of Damara

<SNIP>



Spot on.

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

King-to-be Imbrar II and Dynastic Marriages

<BIG SNIP>



You're correct in surmising that Imbrar is not both Alexander and Octavian. He's intelligent but lacking in wisdom due to his tender years, and his emotional maturity while solid for his age isn't advanced. He dreams of a "greater Impiltur" having grown up on tales of brave kings conquering foreign lands and noting that at various times in its history Impiltur has annexed the city-states to the west, much of the Great Dale and even parts of Thesk. Truth be told, Imbrar is a bit if a glory-seeker and he is looking to make his own mark in the world, outside the stilted environment created by the Council and Queen-Regent.

For that reason, I don't think he'd be keen on a dynastic, loveless marriage - but if Rendeth has a hot daughter, anything could happen. The issue is, the rule of Procampur is likely to be through a male line as well, and marrying off a daughter to the king of Impiltur is unlikely to lead to a conclusion that they should become a part of that realm if she is Rendeth's only offspring. They'll find someone else "of the Royal Blood" to succeed and it is very likely that such a situation would play right into the hands of the Hamayarch.

I see Impiltur's attentions turning to Procampur after a few years of Imbrar being on the throne. Those attentions are very likely to turn ugly if Procampur doesn't recognise the "greater good" of joining Impiltur.

As for a royal matchmaker, the closest version of that is Aunt Eldreene, the wife of the much-loved and dearly missed Kyrlraun of the Council of Lords. Only 58 as at 1372 DR, she is kind, observant and still vital member of the Heltharn extended family, known to be the person to go to for a cup of redleaf tea when anyone had a "problem". She is full of wisdom, good advice and is a vault. She also looks out for the many, scattered young Heltharns (lots of great-nephews and nieces and "removed" cousins) and has been known to broker marriages between the Heltharns and the various noble families of the realm as well as her greatest coup, "setting up" Lords Imbraun and Sambrar (now tragically dead) with the sisters Ardythe and Ardawn Rowanmantle of Cormyr on a state visit way back in the 1330s DR.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Aug 2018 02:47:22
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2018 :  07:22:36  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

Thanks a bunch for the lore on Garelaun, Telegar, Ulimbrar and his family, George.

Also, I feel really out of the loop, what new article, where does one obtain it and what are the 'Tyrants of Thay'?



PM me your e-mail address or e-mail me at krashos@optusnet.com.au for a copy.

-- George Krashos



Hello, i'm interesting too. Can you send me a copy ?

I send you a PM.

Thanks.



Hi Asharak

I sent you a copy on 21/8. Please check and let me know if you received it.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 23 Aug 2018 07:22:55
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