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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3243 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2017 :  17:16:03  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i dont see a need to redo it. Its perfect as it is.

Yes they need a lighter version for olayers but that should not make the lore incorrect. FR is great because of its depth. It just needed to be more accessible rather being hacked to pieces.

I use your article as the basis for all migration patterns. Languages change a lot over a millennia and i use that as the reasoning for discrepancies between that and 3e lore.


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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1073 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2017 :  17:20:43  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
D&D can have a thousand skills, spells, monsters, prestige classes, etc..., but when it comes to fleshing out languages we need something simple?

This is the part where I roll my eyes at Sean Reynolds' comment, and continue referencing your excellent article Tom.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29786 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2017 :  18:26:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I respect the hell out of SKR; he's done some damn good stuff, and I very much went all fanboi on him when I met him at GenCon last year (he handed me a book I'd pre-ordered at the Monte Cook Games booth). That said, I've disagreed with some of his ideas more than once, and I don't think that language is a place where thing should be simplified.

Except for the way all D&D characters seem to be linguistic masters and know like 4 or 5 languages right off the bat. That's long seemed odd to me, though it could be because we 'Muricans () only speak one language, and a lot of us are pretty bad at that one.

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
418 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2017 :  18:24:17  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
2-3 languages are norm in europe. Also take in that lot of those characters have above average inteligence (that is why they have those bonus languages) or they learned them instead of other skills/proficiencies. You are also probably cosidering racial languages and common.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29786 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2017 :  20:03:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley

2-3 languages are norm in europe. Also take in that lot of those characters have above average inteligence (that is why they have those bonus languages) or they learned them instead of other skills/proficiencies. You are also probably cosidering racial languages and common.



But the flipside is that unless a character grows up in a major city, they're not going to have any access to those other languages... If your character is a former farmboy, and never saw anyone that wasn't human before leaving the farm, what are the odds that he knows how to speak, read and write in drow, elven, and infernal?

That's the weirdness, for me: regardless of background, everyone and their third cousin is multilingual, and are often fluent in languages they shouldn't have ever even heard.

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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
418 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  16:58:34  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is up to DM to look over such nonsense. I deal with it by giving those languages as potential if it make no sense at the time so character can pick up some languages on the road. Player is not disadvantaged and it make sense.
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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
56 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2017 :  09:22:12  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey George, I hope things are well. So I feel like I've seen this mentioned somewhere (I didn't find it though), but I've been curious about Sarshel the True. Near as I can tell he's human, which would put him in his early/mid-70s when he led the crusade and fought Ndulu. I'm just wondering what his whole deal is; what was he up to before he took up crusading? I pretty sure he's not home-grown Impilturan (I want to say Tethyr), and at 70ish he'd had to have been involved in many things before he became king of a nation that isn't his home.
How is it he maintains his physical prowess into such an advanced age? Does it have to do with being a paladin, or is he both naturally gifted and vigilant with his fitness a la Barristan the Bold?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4768 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  02:25:44  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lukas Kain

Hey George, I hope things are well. So I feel like I've seen this mentioned somewhere (I didn't find it though), but I've been curious about Sarshel the True. Near as I can tell he's human, which would put him in his early/mid-70s when he led the crusade and fought Ndulu. I'm just wondering what his whole deal is; what was he up to before he took up crusading? I pretty sure he's not home-grown Impilturan (I want to say Tethyr), and at 70ish he'd had to have been involved in many things before he became king of a nation that isn't his home.
How is it he maintains his physical prowess into such an advanced age? Does it have to do with being a paladin, or is he both naturally gifted and vigilant with his fitness a la Barristan the Bold?



Well, the answer is pretty straightforward: Sarshel was one of the Racked. The Racked were paladins and priests of Ilmater that received special blessings and favors because it was "needful" from the point of view of that deity, usually in the context of some great quest, war or task. The Racked retained their vigor and strength (in effect immune to the effects of aging) well into their advanced years, but still "felt" all of those effects. In other words, Sarshel still had the strength and stamina of his youth, but it hurt like hell. Once Sarshel had completed his great task - the defeat of the Scaled Horde in the Fiend Wars - he lost his Racked status and swiftly succumbed to a host of age-related maladies, living on for only two more, painful years.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5225 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2017 :  20:21:02  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Lukas Kain

Hey George, I hope things are well. So I feel like I've seen this mentioned somewhere (I didn't find it though), but I've been curious about Sarshel the True. Near as I can tell he's human, which would put him in his early/mid-70s when he led the crusade and fought Ndulu. I'm just wondering what his whole deal is; what was he up to before he took up crusading? I pretty sure he's not home-grown Impilturan (I want to say Tethyr), and at 70ish he'd had to have been involved in many things before he became king of a nation that isn't his home.
How is it he maintains his physical prowess into such an advanced age? Does it have to do with being a paladin, or is he both naturally gifted and vigilant with his fitness a la Barristan the Bold?



Well, the answer is pretty straightforward: Sarshel was one of the Racked. The Racked were paladins and priests of Ilmater that received special blessings and favors because it was "needful" from the point of view of that deity, usually in the context of some great quest, war or task. The Racked retained their vigor and strength (in effect immune to the effects of aging) well into their advanced years, but still "felt" all of those effects. In other words, Sarshel still had the strength and stamina of his youth, but it hurt like hell. Once Sarshel had completed his great task - the defeat of the Scaled Horde in the Fiend Wars - he lost his Racked status and swiftly succumbed to a host of age-related maladies, living on for only two more, painful years.

-- George Krashos



George, I'm gonna applaud that invention... the Racked... I like that idea and it so fits Ilmater. What better way to represent someone who "suffers so that others won't" than to have this guy feeling all the pain of being old and still going on to stop what he sees as being a problem for his people. He even pounded out a kid at 55 (that poor young girl :-) ), because well... he could. You know, I'd pretty much convinced myself that if I were in the realms the red knight would be my goddess, but now I'm wondering.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13381 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2017 :  22:07:23  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're probably already aware of this, but while looking for something (in a non-OCR book... UGH!) I came across an entry in SotM about Malanthus Stormstaern, and its says he had a keep somewhere around the headwaters of the Fire River in the Earthfast Mountains.

That would put his buried (by an avalanche) Keep very close to - if not right beneath - the Citadel of Conjurers.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

George, I'm gonna applaud that invention... the Racked... I like that idea and it so fits Ilmater. What better way to represent someone who "suffers so that others won't" than to have this guy feeling all the pain of being old and still going on to stop what he sees as being a problem for his people. He even pounded out a kid at 55 (that poor young girl :-) ), because well... he could. You know, I'd pretty much convinced myself that if I were in the realms the red knight would be my goddess, but now I'm wondering.
AHEM...

I'll have you know I'm 53, going on 54, and although I may not have the stamina of my youth, I still have much of my strength. The 'young girl' as you put it would feel blessed, believe you me.


Weird that this came up - my youngest turns 16 this year, and I've been considering getting remarried and having a couple more kids. I just don't know who the lucky woman I want to 'bless' is yet.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Apr 2017 22:18:41
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4768 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2017 :  01:55:38  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

You're probably already aware of this, but while looking for something (in a non-OCR book... UGH!) I came across an entry in SotM about Malanthus Stormstaern, and its says he had a keep somewhere around the headwaters of the Fire River in the Earthfast Mountains.

That would put his buried (by an avalanche) Keep very close to - if not right beneath - the Citadel of Conjurers.



Aware indeed. Track down my dragon write up of Ouranalathra "the Mistmaiden" to see what I did with that reference.

Not very close. Closish geographically but there is no direct travel path between the two sites unless you are an expert mountaineer or can fly.

-- George Krashos

P.S. More kids?!? I admire your courage.

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 18 Apr 2017 01:55:57
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13381 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2017 :  02:11:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

P.S. More kids?!? I admire your courage.

I've thought about it before, but I have to make sure I would be doing it for the right reasons.

I would also have to find the PERFECT person if I were ever to consider sharing my life with someone again, and since that is highly unlikely (especially at my age), right now its just a mental exercise, nothing more.

Having four boys, though, and seeing pictures of other people's beautiful daughters, I can't help but feel I missed something special, not have a 'daddy's girl'. On the other hand, I also see what my friends have gone through when their daughters became teenagers.

I have nieces... I'll probably continue to make do with that.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Rivenhelm
Seeker

30 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2017 :  23:02:47  Show Profile Send Rivenhelm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
G-Kimmel,

Not to derail any ongoing thread here, but was wondering if you're still planning on making Gen Con this year? Not only is it celebrating 30 years of Gray Box goodness, but it's also 50 years old itself! It's looking very good for me to attend as my work schedule has lined up to allow me to try to attend in many many years, and it would be my first. Would be cool to see ya if you could make it. I'm sure it'll be something not to miss. Too bad Ed can't attend, but that is understandable. His imprint is always there.

Take Care,
R....
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4768 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2017 :  04:55:15  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rivenhelm

G-Kimmel,

Not to derail any ongoing thread here, but was wondering if you're still planning on making Gen Con this year? Not only is it celebrating 30 years of Gray Box goodness, but it's also 50 years old itself! It's looking very good for me to attend as my work schedule has lined up to allow me to try to attend in many many years, and it would be my first. Would be cool to see ya if you could make it. I'm sure it'll be something not to miss. Too bad Ed can't attend, but that is understandable. His imprint is always there.

Take Care,
R....



Unfortunately other people's travel plans have torpedoed my ability to get to GEN-CON this year. I'm unhappy about it as the milestones are significant, but alas it's not to be. I should be able to get there next year, but as with all such things it will depend on a range of factors. Thanks for sending a thought my way!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 11 May 2017 05:59:34
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5225 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2017 :  13:06:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

You're probably already aware of this, but while looking for something (in a non-OCR book... UGH!) I came across an entry in SotM about Malanthus Stormstaern, and its says he had a keep somewhere around the headwaters of the Fire River in the Earthfast Mountains.

That would put his buried (by an avalanche) Keep very close to - if not right beneath - the Citadel of Conjurers.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

George, I'm gonna applaud that invention... the Racked... I like that idea and it so fits Ilmater. What better way to represent someone who "suffers so that others won't" than to have this guy feeling all the pain of being old and still going on to stop what he sees as being a problem for his people. He even pounded out a kid at 55 (that poor young girl :-) ), because well... he could. You know, I'd pretty much convinced myself that if I were in the realms the red knight would be my goddess, but now I'm wondering.
AHEM...

I'll have you know I'm 53, going on 54, and although I may not have the stamina of my youth, I still have much of my strength. The 'young girl' as you put it would feel blessed, believe you me.


Weird that this came up - my youngest turns 16 this year, and I've been considering getting remarried and having a couple more kids. I just don't know who the lucky woman I want to 'bless' is yet.



Lol, Mark, good luck with that. I'm almost 46 and my gf has an 8 year old. The idea of raising anything approaching another child is out the window.

Sidenote: my head must be groggy? SotM.... the only thing coming to me is Sword of the Morning, which is Game of Thrones. What's that about? Oh, and good find on the entry. It would well fit the Citadel of the Conjurers if there was some kind of elementalist type near there.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4768 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2017 :  06:02:32  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Sidenote: my head must be groggy? SotM.... the only thing coming to me is Sword of the Morning, which is Game of Thrones. What's that about? Oh, and good find on the entry. It would well fit the Citadel of the Conjurers if there was some kind of elementalist type near there.



Secrets of the Magister.

Oh, and I'm 47 and have a 7 year old. It's lots of fun as she is unashamedly daddy's princess. I might have gone again - have 3 - in my early 40s but likely not now.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5225 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2017 :  13:04:11  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Sidenote: my head must be groggy? SotM.... the only thing coming to me is Sword of the Morning, which is Game of Thrones. What's that about? Oh, and good find on the entry. It would well fit the Citadel of the Conjurers if there was some kind of elementalist type near there.



Secrets of the Magister.

Oh, and I'm 47 and have a 7 year old. It's lots of fun as she is unashamedly daddy's princess. I might have gone again - have 3 - in my early 40s but likely not now.

-- George Krashos



Secrets of the Magister... damn, been a LONG time since I've looked at that, but it was a good product for its time. Thanks.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Rivenhelm
Seeker

30 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2017 :  06:33:35  Show Profile Send Rivenhelm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry to hear about that George!! I know you were looking forward to attending. Would have been cool to meet ya and chat, but things happen. I'm still not entirely sure I'll make it myself! Hope all is well with you, and that it's not something serious preventing you from going.

Take care,
R...
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