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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
375 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2014 :  10:50:08  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I've reached the last five pages of refinements for Krash's "Impiltur Compilation."

Woot! See what I can accomplish in a day without the distraction of pesky real-world work.



I know I shouldn't ask, but did you ever finish this?

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4718 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2014 :  12:18:07  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's on its way very soon to me. Sage promised!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13121 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2014 :  14:03:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LMAO

On the bright side (for me, not you guys), that means I know I have 'all the time in the world' to complete the map.

I'll be Emailing you soon, about that, GK. I have to just finish the next thing for Eric and then I am back to the Eastern Heartlands.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4718 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2014 :  14:33:30  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahh wonderful. I'd like to see Impiltur and the UE get some more Markustay love.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  03:36:03  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

It's on its way very soon to me. Sage promised!

-- George Krashos

Aye.

Didn't have a chance to transfer the file as promised, last evening. Krash knows about the specifics regarding the problems I encountered.

I've an RDO tomorrow, which will allow me to properly correct the file conversion error and send it to George without any further problems on my part.

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Demzer
Senior Scribe

530 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2014 :  19:54:20  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi George,

what do you think will the various Lords of Imphras II and Queen Regent Sambryl do after the coronation of Imbrar Heltharn II with the end of both the Regency and the Council of Lords?
To shorten the list, consider that Lords Helimbraun, Oriseus, Silaunbrar, Engarth, Soarglim, Rilimbraun and Simgar died in my campaign in various Soneillon-related events.

Another question, did Mage Royal Selarbrin have any offsprings/successors/apprentices that he was grooming to continue the family line and take his place as new Mage Royal? (Yeah, he died too, my players took a while to catch up with the Soneillon-orchestrated intrigues so there were many casualties in Impiltur). If the answer to the above is "No" in one way or another, how is going to be appointed the new Mage Royal? And who is in "pole position" among archmages of the kingdom or foreigners to get the seat?

Thanks!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  03:55:27  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

It's on its way very soon to me. Sage promised!

-- George Krashos

Aye.

Didn't have a chance to transfer the file as promised, last evening. Krash knows about the specifics regarding the problems I encountered.

I've an RDO tomorrow, which will allow me to properly correct the file conversion error and send it to George without any further problems on my part.

Okay, provided there were no problems with the FTP conversion of the file, Krash should now have a copy.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4718 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  13:04:28  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Umm, what file?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13121 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2014 :  14:26:37  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't worry, Krash.

Its just wibbily-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff happening.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2014 :  13:35:34  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Don't worry, Krash.

Its just wibbily-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff happening.

Yeah. Problem on my end. I've discussed it with Krash.

Things are moving forward now, with positive results.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2014 :  02:28:05  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Problem corrected. Hopefully.

Just waiting for a response from Krash on whether he's received my test file.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
375 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2014 :  13:34:53  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A test file?

It seems sending an email with a document attached is a lot more complicated in Sage-land....

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13121 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2014 :  14:24:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, he is actually sending them from a monastery in 1207 AD, so the connection is unstable.

His home-built 'Steampunk 9000' computer doesn't really run windows - its more of a 'probability engine' with no actual code, just lots and lots of gears and lights (many of which do nothing but look cool). So, of course, there are quite a bit of compatibility issues as well.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 03 Dec 2014 14:30:23
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29651 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2014 :  16:23:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, he is actually sending them from a monastery in 1207 AD, so the connection is unstable.

His home-built 'Steampunk 9000' computer doesn't really run windows - its more of a 'probability engine' with no actual code, just lots and lots of gears and lights (many of which do nothing but look cool). So, of course, there are quite a bit of compatibility issues as well.



Are you saying the Sage is a tinker gnome? This would explain a lot...

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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2014 :  19:00:26  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Krash, you've written of Oghranni (?) dwarves in this very thread. I wonder if you have any knowledge about Oghrann's most prominent clans? 'Dwarves Deep' lists the major shield dwarf clans, but it seems most of them wandered towards Worldspine mountains, Waterdeep and Mirabar after the kingdom's fall. Which clans might have traveled eastward, other than Iron House of Tethyamar? And did Tethyamar's inhabitants include other clans beside the Iron House, e.g. Brightblade dwarves from Daggerdale?

To expand on that, is it common that, for example, Clan Dunderhead's hold might also have a few Watchever, Darkfell or Worldthrone dwarves? (i.e. families or individuals from "major" clans)

O the Beardless One, I beseech thee, help me out with this one and I'll be forever in your de... uh, grateful!

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2014 :  10:17:16  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've also much enjoyed your lore on Tethyamar. What would be your educated guess of when Thunderholme was founded? I'm thinking of following years (in DR): -26, 127, 149, 227 and 250. Year of the Dwarf would fit nicely, but then again, Hlundadim's army assaults Cormyr around 200 DR, and I find that would have been a great opportunity for Tethyamar and/or Oghrann clans to expand into Thunder Peaks. Ergo, Year of Raised Banner (227) or Year of the Storm Crown (250) would work nicely. Or was Thunderholme, in your humble opinion, an independent kingdom and not an outpost of Tethyamar/Iron House?

Also, do you think there were refugees/clans from fallen Delzoun in Tethyamar and Thunderholme?

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3175 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2014 :  10:36:02  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooh thats a good question.

It could have been founded following Tethyamar's first fall around -88 DR.

It could have been founded by dwarves from Myth Drannor (i think they were from the vast).

It could have been founded by the same kin of fallen Oghrann living in the Storm Horns that helped found Tethyamar.


I'm thinking since Tethyamar's founding mentions only sending word to the kin of fallen Oghrann in the Stormhorns (with no mention of the Thunderpeaks) that either Thunderholme was not there at this time or the two groups of dwarves were unrelated and therefore less inclined to help one another.

Maybe that gives some credence to the dwarves of Thunderholme being of the stock of Sarphil which would be different to the dwarves of Oghrann by a few thousand years.

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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2014 :  23:23:04  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Ooh thats a good question.

It could have been founded following Tethyamar's first fall around -88 DR.

It could have been founded by dwarves from Myth Drannor (i think they were from the vast).

It could have been founded by the same kin of fallen Oghrann living in the Storm Horns that helped found Tethyamar.


I'm thinking since Tethyamar's founding mentions only sending word to the kin of fallen Oghrann in the Stormhorns (with no mention of the Thunderpeaks) that either Thunderholme was not there at this time or the two groups of dwarves were unrelated and therefore less inclined to help one another.

Maybe that gives some credence to the dwarves of Thunderholme being of the stock of Sarphil which would be different to the dwarves of Oghrann by a few thousand years.



Interesting ideas, Dazzlerdal; I've thought of Sarphil, too, but it may be a bit too old? I feel that Thunderholme would be mentioned more often in dwarf and Cormyr related canon if it had been founded thousands of years ago. And Tethyamar might have tried to establish a firm relationship with such an old kingdom...

On the other hand, Thunderholme was famous for its superb craftsmen and miners, which something I can't recall being mentioned in Realmslore about Oghrann or Tethyamar. That might indicate the dwarves of Thunderholme weren't from either of these kingdoms.

I've also thought of the Realm of Glimmering Swords, which fell in 649 DR, but it rose and fell when Thunderholme already existed. Besides, the refugees of Roldirar retreated to Myth Drannor, and later on went to reopen the mines of Sarphil.

My own best guess is that Thunderholme was founded around 200-300 DR, if not even a century later, by a few clans of Oghrann, and perhaps some refugees from Delzoun. Perhaps they were clans that were following the path laid down by their cousins in Tethyamar? Or maybe Thunderholme was founded as a vassal kingdom of Tethyamar? In any case, it may be that some clans fled from Myth Drannor and Ammarindar to Thunderholme, but they probably weren't many in number.

I'm leaning towards Clan Darkfell as one of the "major" clans, but maybe there wasn't a ruling clan per se, since Emerlin III (like Harbromm or Ghellin) didn't have a clan name? The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Thunderholme was a place where many refugees from fallen dwarven realms fled to...

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm

Edited by - Asgetrion on 12 Dec 2014 06:50:37
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1356 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2014 :  00:25:22  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe this will help some.

684 DR (The Year of the Sundered Crypt) - Dwarves of the clan Tarynstone are found digging deep tunnels under the city (Myth Drannor) despite the long-held prohibitions against such actions. Furthermore, some elf Houses are outraged that the dwarves' tunneling in restricted areas collapsed some nigh-forgotten deep crypts of the elder or long-gone Houses. Clan Tarynstone and its 350 dwarves, despite a cry within the Ruling Council for death sentences and an equally loud cry for acquittal, are exiled from Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr. The clan emigrates west into the Thunder Peaks. (Source: Fall of Myth Drannor)

989 DR (The Year of Dark Stalking) - Dwarven miners from a remote outpost of Thunderholme inadvertently broke into Aurgloroasa's lair and roused the very old shadow dragon from a decades-long sleep.

1001 DR - (The Year of the Awakening) Aurgloroasa began to whisper dark thoughts in the dreams of High Old One Dagan, son of Belgin, blood of Jangarak. Over the next 33 years, the ambitions of Thunderholme's high priest of Dumathoin grew as did his madness and his obsession with death.

1034 DR (The Year of Bane's Brood) - When the aging monarch (King Emerlin III) died in his sleep shortly after the disappearance of his only child, the crown prince, on a trade mission to Selgaunt, Dagan was quickly named Regent of Thunderholme. (Both the king and the prince were victims of Aurgloroasa's shadowy agents.) Within months, construction was begun on a grand temple to Dumathoin in the heart of Thunderholme.

1054 DR (The Year of the Tolling Terrors) - In a grand ceremony of dedication attended by all the dwarves of Thunderholme, the dwarven regent-priest dedicated the temple complex to Null, not Dumathoin, and named it the Necropolis of the Wyrm. As news of the unspeakable deed spread through the crowd, Dagan completed the unholy ritual by summoning the "avatar" of his new god and Aurgloroasa was loose in the city. In the chaos that followed, fewer than 30 dwarves escaped the maelstrom of evil that had been unleashed. Within a tenday, Thunderholme was a lifeless city, reeking of decay.

Rest of these come from the old 2E Cult of the Dragon book.

It's possible clan Tarynstone joined Thunderholme or perhaps they founded the remote outpost mentioned above. Judging from what we know of the place's architecture, such as: Immense halls and chambers supported by titanic pillars and cut from the heart of the living mountain have become magnificent sepulchers. Immense friezes depicting dwarven nobility and the daily lives of the common folk stand as monuments to the long-dead inhabitants; I'd assume Thunderholme took many centuries to carve out.

And with Dumathoin being the Keeper of Secrets, it's possible this place has existed for quite a long time. Definitely another place I'd love to see more detail on.



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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2014 :  12:58:27  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

Maybe this will help some.

684 DR (The Year of the Sundered Crypt) - Dwarves of the clan Tarynstone are found digging deep tunnels under the city (Myth Drannor) despite the long-held prohibitions against such actions. Furthermore, some elf Houses are outraged that the dwarves' tunneling in restricted areas collapsed some nigh-forgotten deep crypts of the elder or long-gone Houses. Clan Tarynstone and its 350 dwarves, despite a cry within the Ruling Council for death sentences and an equally loud cry for acquittal, are exiled from Myth Drannor and Cormanthyr. The clan emigrates west into the Thunder Peaks. (Source: Fall of Myth Drannor)

989 DR (The Year of Dark Stalking) - Dwarven miners from a remote outpost of Thunderholme inadvertently broke into Aurgloroasa's lair and roused the very old shadow dragon from a decades-long sleep.

1001 DR - (The Year of the Awakening) Aurgloroasa began to whisper dark thoughts in the dreams of High Old One Dagan, son of Belgin, blood of Jangarak. Over the next 33 years, the ambitions of Thunderholme's high priest of Dumathoin grew as did his madness and his obsession with death.

1034 DR (The Year of Bane's Brood) - When the aging monarch (King Emerlin III) died in his sleep shortly after the disappearance of his only child, the crown prince, on a trade mission to Selgaunt, Dagan was quickly named Regent of Thunderholme. (Both the king and the prince were victims of Aurgloroasa's shadowy agents.) Within months, construction was begun on a grand temple to Dumathoin in the heart of Thunderholme.

1054 DR (The Year of the Tolling Terrors) - In a grand ceremony of dedication attended by all the dwarves of Thunderholme, the dwarven regent-priest dedicated the temple complex to Null, not Dumathoin, and named it the Necropolis of the Wyrm. As news of the unspeakable deed spread through the crowd, Dagan completed the unholy ritual by summoning the "avatar" of his new god and Aurgloroasa was loose in the city. In the chaos that followed, fewer than 30 dwarves escaped the maelstrom of evil that had been unleashed. Within a tenday, Thunderholme was a lifeless city, reeking of decay.

Rest of these come from the old 2E Cult of the Dragon book.

It's possible clan Tarynstone joined Thunderholme or perhaps they founded the remote outpost mentioned above. Judging from what we know of the place's architecture, such as: Immense halls and chambers supported by titanic pillars and cut from the heart of the living mountain have become magnificent sepulchers. Immense friezes depicting dwarven nobility and the daily lives of the common folk stand as monuments to the long-dead inhabitants; I'd assume Thunderholme took many centuries to carve out.

And with Dumathoin being the Keeper of Secrets, it's possible this place has existed for quite a long time. Definitely another place I'd love to see more detail on.







Thanks, Eilserus!

That is actually something I hadn't thought about... it may very well be that Dumathoin had "hidden" the kingdom from outsiders, and perhaps the dwarves were suspicious of both elves and humans. In any case the Realmslore provided suggests the Keeper of Secrets was the patron deity of Thunderholme. Whether this kingdom was hidden also from other dwarves, such as Clans of Oghrann and Tethyamar... hmmm, I don't know. It seems unlikely. I doubt Thunderholme was completely self-sufficient anyway, and likely traded with smaller clanholds and Tethyamar...

And that bit about Clan Tarynstone was something I didn't know. Wow. As you said, it is unlikely that this city was built in a century or two.

I think I'm going to use an earlier date for the founding of Thunderholme; maybe 15 DR (Year of Glittering Glory), or a few years after Tethyamar was retaken by the Iron House (around -70 or -80 DR). This way my players won't be inquiring about why they didn't help Tethyamar.

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4718 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2014 :  13:24:47  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For GEN-CON this year, harking back to yesteryear when such occurrences were more commonplace, I provided the Candlekeep Seminar gathering with a copy of a timeline I had created for Impiltur in GHotR format (but better - with references).

Alaundo has just posted it to the 'Keep in the Traveler's Notebook section. Have a look and let me know what you think.

Kudos for anyone who can spot some of the Easter Eggs or hidden in plain site links.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3175 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2014 :  14:31:45  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i've read it several times and love it. I reckon i could pinpoint where a few of the easter eggs might be, but i have no idea what they could refer to.

Keep up the excellent work, looking forward to the history of the North next.

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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1356 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2014 :  23:15:16  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just started reading this. Love it! George, you sir, are a rockstar!
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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
55 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2014 :  01:56:04  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know, I had just finished working on my own tentative timeline for Impiltur, taking notes from everything I could find from books to Candlekeep to some posts George had made on the Realms-L list. This is wondrously perfect because it completes my amateur list, and answers some lingering questions I had. I had wondered what this project you kept alluding to was, and I'm thrilled at the finished product. Masterfully done, George. Your research, crafting, and citing are all top-notch. By the by, thank you for including the references; it will no doubt help me out that much more.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4718 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2014 :  02:51:00  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion

Krash, you've written of Oghranni (?) dwarves in this very thread. I wonder if you have any knowledge about Oghrann's most prominent clans? 'Dwarves Deep' lists the major shield dwarf clans, but it seems most of them wandered towards Worldspine mountains, Waterdeep and Mirabar after the kingdom's fall. Which clans might have traveled eastward, other than Iron House of Tethyamar? And did Tethyamar's inhabitants include other clans beside the Iron House, e.g. Brightblade dwarves from Daggerdale?

To expand on that, is it common that, for example, Clan Dunderhead's hold might also have a few Watchever, Darkfell or Worldthrone dwarves? (i.e. families or individuals from "major" clans)



Do I have any 'knowledge' of the clans of Oghrann? No, I don't. Other than a few Oghrann mentions, the only real knowledge we have about that kingdom is in FR11 and there is no real information on any clan names - although you could probably assume that the most prominent clan was Firebeard (after its first king - although that might have just been his moniker).

Eric and I might get to Oghrann one day, but realistically that's a question of years rather than months I reckon.

I could ... ahem ... make up some stuff. But you could do so just as easily. Is this for a campaign, backstory or just wanting to fill in some lore gaps for your own edification?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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