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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
56 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2014 :  08:04:45  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey George, I was wondering if you had some ideas regarding one of my questions? I'm wanting to differentiate the major four cities in Impiltur for my squad. I would settle for a handful of adjectives, or a title (i.e. how Waterdeep is the City of Splendors, or Oreme being the City of White Towers), just something to work with. I realize you're a busy man, so I'm not trying to get all naggy or whatnot. It's just that I've lost a teammate to my waiting, but this is my big "GM debut" and I want to know my chosen setting inside and out.
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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
56 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2014 :  02:57:07  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also had a clarification question. I've been combing through as much of your Impiltur work as I can get my hands on, and I'm seeing some discrepancies when it comes to names of a few noble families. I'm just wondering what the story is behind, for instance, the Dintersans: a nice and happy "new blood" family who also spell their surname Dinterson, Dintersun, Wintersun, and Winterson?

I figured that (in another example) the Wealhavens might've had some sort of major, inter-family dispute, where sides were taken and the result was a split where the "new" family which resulted from the division named themselves the "Well"havens (so as to establish their distance from who they were, but still remain a recognizable name). This essentially happened in my family a few generations back (I have second cousins who spell their name differently, although there isn't any animosity now-a-days); then again we aren't nobility so I'm not sure this couldn't really occur smoothly. I don't know. What're your thoughts, George?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5506 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2014 :  12:46:03  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lukas Kain


1) What are some (more) of the names of noble families living in Impiltur, and maybe some general history of them? I know of families like the Dintersans, Starsunders, Wealhavens, Forgecrowns, and Relindars (and I suspect a few more might be Evenoak, Drelnorth, Brandosk, ect.), I was just wondering what some others are and if they are "old blood" or newer. I understand you likely left many vacant for GMs to fill in as needed.



Okay, in slightly truncated form here a few Impilturian noble houses:

Family name: Eirlthaun
Patriarch: Peredar Eirlthaun (LG hm Pal5)
Heir: Darlaun Eirlthaun (CN hm Ari3)
Prominent Members: Saerala Eirlthaun (LG hf Pal2); Ormas Eirlthaun (LN hm F9) "Old Orm"
Trade & Interests: shipping, shipwrights

Family name: Deepstar
Patriarch: Lantigar Deepstar (NG hm F10)
Heir: Lantigar Deepstar "the Younger" (NG hm F4) "the Little Lantern"
Prominent Members: Meluin Deepstar (CG hm W12) [noted adventurer and family "black sheep"]
Trade & Interests: mercenary fighting, horse-breeding

Family name: Thornspar
Matriarch: Erethella Thornspar (N hf W6)
Heir: Narasha Thornspar (N hf T3)
Prominent Members: Mara and Dara Thornspar (CG hf twins T5) "the Revel Witches"
Trade & Interests: textiles, fashion clothing, furs

Family name: Garammon
Patriarch: Felimbrar Garammon (LG hm P6 of Tyr)
Heir: Imphras Garammon (LG hm P1 of Ilmater)
Prominent Members: Velintar Garammon (LG P16 of Tyr) "the Grimeye" (chief inquisitor of the faith in Impiltur)
Trade & Interests: sword forging, warrior-training, tack-making

Family name: Tordrover
Patriarch: Morga Tordrover (LN hm F7)
Heir: Horga Tordrover (N hm infant)
Prominent Members: Bargaun Tordrover (LN hm F5) and his wife Everild Tordrover (LG df F4)
Trade & Interests: gem mining, trading in metals

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 12 Aug 2014 05:32:00
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5506 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2014 :  13:06:48  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lukas Kain


2) I got to thinking about some name associations, and I realized that the Citadel of Conjurors was known as Dun-Orthass. In the same region is Vordric Dun, an Impilturn mining city, and across the water there's of course Dun-Tharos. I was just curious what part 'Dun' played in the namings of Imperial Narfell. Was it like a regional code?



Nothing very exciting here. It is (just like in our world) the name for an ancient fort although the Narfelli over time used the word to signify a tower.

Vordric Dun is actually a flattering truncation of a peculiar term that had its origins in the fledgling mining camp that was Vordric Dun in the late 900s DR. The clanless dwarf Borlin (none know his origins) was the first prospector to find gold in the creeks running out of the Earthspurs in and around the area where this settlement is located (this placer gold has long since played out), sparking the first "gold rush" of modern Impiltur. With the influx of human prospectors came the entrepreneur Vordric Ballyhorn, who mustered and transported a series of sharrada herds to provide valuable meat on the hoof to the hungry prospectors, making his fortune in only a few short years. His holding pens and abattoirs were the first permanent structures at that location (and still exist today) and formed the foundation of the modern-day settlement. Those jealous of Vordric began to call his little cluster of buildings "Vordric's Dung Heap". Later still, the inhabitants used to refer to "Vordric's Dung" as a symbol of wealth, hard work and success ("Aye, he reeks of Vordric's Dung" was a way of saying someone was well off) which over time was twisted into "Vordric Dun" when the settlement needed a name.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 26 Aug 2014 03:41:59
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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
56 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2014 :  05:17:40  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Absolutely wonderful, thank you George! My players will love that tid-bit about "Vordric's Dung Heap". We finally started the campaign as well, so this information coincided perfectly with that. The info on the nobles is quite nice, and better than I was anticipating.
I know you are a busy man, so instead of bombarding you with lengthy questions about minutiae (like how I'm still not 100% sure I understand the roles of each Lord of Imphras II), what if I cut out all the filler, and essentially just asked you yes/no or short-answered questions? I only have maybe two or three which are pressing anyways.

Thank you again for all your help and insight!
P.S. What happened at the end of that last post? It's like a little tease of additional goodies keeping us on the hook, haha.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5506 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2014 :  17:01:44  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the last bit was just poor editing on my part. Most of my Impiltur stuff is very free form as you might imagine.

Fire away re the yes/no questions.

I plan to answer your cities query in depth when I get back from GENCON.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
56 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2014 :  04:05:28  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey George, just wanted to check in and see how everything was going. I just wondered if you'd come up with any ideas regarding your "big four" cities (Lyrabar to Sarshel)? I figured I'd utilize at least a few of the maps provided by the Northern Journey fellas (although I'm not crazy about the maps for Hlammach and Dilpur, they'll likely still work for my campaign), but likely only a handful of the keyed locations in each map. I just need some idea of how the cities differ from one another besides their names (a la -> the attitudes of Hlammach and Sarshel have typically always been cold toward one another). I've found your posts on the origins of Dilpur, Sarshel, and Hlammach (which are amazing).

Just to put two related issues to rest for me regarding the Lords of Imphras II:
1) How often do the Lords meet (since they have other jobs) in Lyrabar?
2) Kind of a two-parter -> Do the Lords govern Lyrabar, or are their meetings primarily intended to be for the entirety of the nation? The implications, and perhaps the real question I'm asking is who then governs the towns and cities? I've read sources stating that two or three Lords will govern here or there (Dilpur is governed by Imbraun, Soargilm, and Sambrar according to "The Bloodstone Lands"), but one of those dudes is dead, one is implied to live in Lyrabar so as to talk with the queen, and I don't recognize the other guy.

I hope Gencon was cool. I've always wanted to go myself. Did you project turn out as planned?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5506 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2014 :  12:49:43  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Lukas

I made a start of Lyrabar today, but between Father's Day, real work and the demands of Eric Boyd, I didn't get very far! I'm trying to get there for you, but realistically Lyrabar won't be done till the end of the week. The good news however is that I'll be presenting the info in the Forgotten Realms Adventures city format, which hopefully will be of most use.

In terms of your other queries, the Lords meet when they have to but at least once a month. Typically the meetings are in Lyrabar but occasionally they are held in other cities.

In terms of whether the Lords "rule Lyrabar", that depends on what is it you expect them to be doing. Do they deal with the day to day civil and criminal governance of the city? No they don't. Do they deal with specific stuff like raising the harbour tax, or appointing a new sword point (mercenary) unit? No they don't. I've noted this before in earlier responses: the Lords can be considered to be similar to the board of a big company. They make broad policy decisions and only deal with the nitty gritty when those issues are specifically referred to them for their consideration. There is a system whereby individuals can petition the Lords to make a direct submission to them on an issue of concern but they have a discretion on whether they agree and more often than not delegate the petition to an appropriate Royal Herald or Constable.

The "stationing" of Lords in various cities is a reflection of their role as the ultimate arbiter in disputes of significance and also to rein in noble and merchant excesses where required. A Lords' Decree is exactly that, and can't be made by a Royal Herald or Constable, so there has to be someone "on the ground" to make the emergency decisions (i.e. declare a quarantine in case of plague, call out the Warswords in case of civil unrest, etc.).

GEN-CON was indeed cool. Always great to catch up with old friends. Was especially chuffed that Eric Boyd made the effort to get there for a couple of days so we could catch up. My project turned out as planned and without a hitch. I'm hoping these Halls might soon showcase it.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Lukas Kain
Seeker

USA
56 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2014 :  02:00:41  Show Profile Send Lukas Kain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh man, I never got the email saying there was a new post. George, having them (or any of them) in the city format from FR Adventures is so very much more than I ever expected. I don't mean to be at all naggy or impatient, I was just curious. Thank you very much for taking time out of your life to do these things for us!

Also, the board members analogy really helped to put things in perspective, thank you.
I believe I speak for everyone when I say we'd all love to see what you put together for GEN-CON.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4557 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2014 :  11:51:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He definitely speaks for me, and anyone that doesnt want some GK is just plain mad.

As much GK lore as you can possibly work on is what i want. Impiltur is fast becoming one of the most detailed areas in the realms (alongside Waterdeep with its 5 sourcebooks), and i just want more.

Oh and i hope you get around to working on Netheril soon (as you hinted at as a goal in another thread). I'm busy rewriting my version of it but would love to steal yours.

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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
607 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2014 :  22:18:05  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey George, I have a question. Can you reveal, at least partialy, what is exacly the relationship between the Rengarth Barbarians, Nethererese, and Snow Hunters/Ulutiun? All of them are the most ancient speakers of Ulou languages, and seem to be in the north since before written history. Also Netherese used Draconic script, is it cnnected to the info you gave on uplifted ancient/prehistoric humans of the Realms? Maybe, for example, the three groups are related, but the ancestors of Netherese were solely under the dragons 'protectorate', while the Rengarth Tribes, and Snow Hunters later fell under Giants jurisdiction?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5506 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2014 :  13:31:22  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had this to say on p.16 of this thread in response to Markustay's question:
"I need a run-down on the inter-relationships of the Uthgardt/Rengardt and whatever other barbarinas were running around in the North at one time or another (like the Reghedmen, Snow people, Gur, Traell, Ice Hunters, Eraka, etc)

Maybe to keep it simple, just the relationships of those first two with the Netherese."


Okay, first things first, you are effectively asking me for a history of all human barbarians west of the Moonsea from the time humans first gathered into what could be described as "tribes" till about 500 or so DR. Big ask Markustay!

That said, much of the information you are after already exists, the majority of it gathered in GHotR.

What is clear from the outset is that apart from Netheril (and that is a special case in itself) the lack of any great human kingdoms in the North till the time of Delimbiyran, the Kingdom of Man, in the 600s DR means that significant human groupings manifested themselves as city-states (Ascalhorn, Slverymoon, Illusk et. al.) or as wandering tribal groups (Uthgardt, etc.).

That fact means that there wasn't really a significant amount of "interrelationships" between the humans of the North.

Going back to the "beginning" also presents some problems. If humans are one of the Creator Races, then they have been around for a long time. I've always been of the view that giants and dragons enslaved humans for millenia but the time of these great races was over by -24,000 DR or so with the advent of the First Flowering.

Netheril doesn't come into being until -3859 DR, so we essentially have a 20,000 year period when the history of humans is undetailed. I don't propose to fill that gap in here.

However, in the North geographical region, I'm of the view that humans (basically of Ulutiun stock) eked out an existence amidst all the 'big boys' (i.e. the dragons, giants, elves and dwarves) in isolated pockets throughout the great mountain range known as the Spine of the World. As the threat of the dragons and the giants receded (and correspondingly the threat from their greatest local competitor - the orcs - increased) these humans began a slow migration south from the mountains into more temperate lands.

Of these human groupings, the most well known are the Ice Hunters who clustered along the western coast of the Trackless Sea as south as the Neverwinter Wood (then the elven realm of Illefarn) and inland up to the site of present day Mirabar. The elves of Illefarn kept these humans in check but did not do anything to them other than prevent them coming into elven lands. If anything, the humans were 'penned in' in this region for the elven woodlands were much more extensive than they are in the present-day Realms and it is likely that the forests covered the entire area south of the Ice Lakes save for the region of the Crags.

It is also possible that other "Ice Hunter" human groupings clustered in areas where the elves and dwarves did not. As such, the Evermoors may have been the site of human habitation in those distant times also. As is obvious, humans were relegated to marginal lands.

To the east, the land was less wooded and mountainous and in these open areas - notwithstanding the everpresent danger of orcs and dragons - humans prospered. The taming of horses was the greatest achievement in this time and these humans became the Rengarth barbarians. I consider that all humans of this area were Rengarth, with offshoots from these tribal groupings who founded permanent and semi-permanent dwellings and engaged in agriculture becoming the precursors of the realms of Netheril and Thaeravel and no doubt a host of unknown others.

We have now reached recorded canon history. GHotR tracks the development of human civilisation from the time of Netheril to the present. The genesis of the Reghedmen is dated at -2,100 DR. The Traell of Hartsvale come to their lands in -325 DR.

The relationship of the Eraka, the barbarians of the Ride, and the humans of the North in very early times is not set out in the canon sources other than the comment in GHotR at p.10. I consider that as before, there were humans here who were enslaved by dragons and giants. Those that survived created tribal groupings and I consider that at least one grouping retained enough "civilization" from their likely former giant masters to take over and maintain the Citadel of the Raven fortresses (that they had likely built for their giant masters) for a few centuries before some enemy or cataclysm brought that realm to an end.

Survivors likely coalesced into nomadic barbarian tribes, which in the -400s DR or so received the gift of horses from Rengarth barbarians travelling west to escape the depredations of the phaerimm whose 'lifedrain' magics had destroyed the Narrow Sea and their ancestral grasslands. I note that "Races of Faerun" (p.108) states that the Ride barbarians had the Angardt as their ancestors while the Tunlar barbarians had the Rengarth as their ancestors. I consider that this is an error as the Netheril boxed set maps make it clear that the Rengarth were the northern tribal grouping, while the Angardt were the southern.

The Gur come into the equation last, and "Races of Faerun" at p.106 provides information as to how they arrived in the Heartlands from -200 DR. The exact mechanism of the move isn't set out, but I'm thinking that this was another portal migration.

I hope this has been helpful. If you are after anything else, let me know.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
607 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2014 :  15:18:29  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the reply George! I don't know how I could miss this, while searching through the forums, and even this thread...Talk about failing a spot-check XD.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1953 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2014 :  02:27:08  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A couple of weeks (has it been that long?) ago I read a piece of yours about a Mist dragon devoted to Oghma? Deneir? I believe it was an unpublished Wyrms of the North article and was most excellent. I figured it would be here, in this scroll, but have since been unable to find it. Could you refresh a forgetful Scribes memory and shove me in the direction of the proper shelf. I wonder if there is a scroll dedicated to such things. If not, there should be.

Woops. Just found it on page 3. Sorry.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out


Edited by - Fellfire on 30 Sep 2014 02:29:49
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5506 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2014 :  04:04:26  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This thread is becoming a little cumbersome. Certainly not Ed-cumbersome, but a little.

Glad you found Ouranalathra. I really enjoyed writing her up back in the day.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2014 :  04:27:25  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Would you like me to seal this present scroll, Krash, and open a fresh one above it?

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5506 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2014 :  06:46:29  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No, I don't think so. It'll disappear down the page eventually and then nobody will remember the goodies in it.

What I was thinking of doing was cataloguing all the lore I've ... ahem ... made up, and listing it all in a sticky with a page reference relevant to this scroll. That way people can refer to that first and then go to the exact page they need. It would be updated as lore was added. Do you think that would work/is doable?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2014 :  08:24:13  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's not a bad idea... a sticky scroll that directs scribes to specific entries you've made in this scroll.

Hmmmm. We could even provide the links for these specific posts, I suppose... so that scribes need only click on a page reference in the index and the entry itself then opens up to them.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32144 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  15:17:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great stuff, friend Krash, but two parts puzzle me:

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

- Rilyaril “the Scarlet Sorceress” (CN human Damaran female enchantress 8), a stunningly beautiful mage who is widely rumoured to use her natural and magical charms to obtain and broker information throughout the city. Her private parties are legendary and marked by dancing, feasting and more salubrious activities.


quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

As is typical of most large cities, the dock area is the more salubrious part of Lyrabar. Lyrabar is so policed and well-ordered however that the docks of the city do not even come close to approximating the environment found in places such as Marsember and Calaunt.


In both of those passages, the word "salubrious" appears, and it doesn't appear to be used in a way I am familiar with... Was there a spellcheck error, do I need to go back to my dictionary, or am I totally misunderstanding these bits?

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15711 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  15:44:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it fits - he is taking it to mean 'energetic', me thinks, which fits both the definition and how he uses it.

EDIT: Also, great lore... as always.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 Oct 2014 15:45:31
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1831 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  15:45:19  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very cool, thanks George!
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5506 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2014 :  16:26:06  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I think it fits - he is taking it to mean 'energetic', me thinks, which fits both the definition and how he uses it.

EDIT: Also, great lore... as always.



Yes, probably should have used "vibrant" instead for the docks reference. Have made the change accordingly.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 05 Oct 2014 16:27:37
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2014 :  04:49:48  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Curious and great stuff, Krash, as always.

One follow-up:-
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

- Imthaeryl “the Sunflame” Darnthul (CG half-elf female bard 9), a fixture at the Smiling Mermaid festhall, where she plays the lyre and provides other entertainment to those with ready coin. She is known to have ties with the Moonstars and is absent from the city every Midsummer, returning a tenday later;
Does Imthaeryl play any other instruments? What more could you share with us about her performances at the Smiling Mermaid? Can you tell us how she gained the nickname "the Sunflame?"

Many thanks, as always.

[Oh, and this is going in the Impiltur compilation!]

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4557 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2014 :  12:15:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Awesome stuff George, well worth the wait and its going into my collection of Realmslore right now.

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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
388 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2014 :  12:32:09  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert (snip) In both of those passages, the word "salubrious" appears, and it doesn't appear to be used in a way I am familiar with... Was there a spellcheck error, do I need to go back to my dictionary, or am I totally misunderstanding these bits?


It's Australian slang. "How was the party?" "Most salubrious." We used to (mis)use it all the time as teens about 30 years ago. (I think I'm around the same age as George - I'm 45 - which is why I understood why he used the word even if it is not strictly correct.)

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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