| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 17:58:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong but Shar basically just yanked the whole of it into the Shadow Plane to keep it all from taking a one-way trip to the floor of the Anauroch...good looking out on her part. Between that and using Cyric to bump off Mystra, boy does she ever know how to capitalize on an opportunity...
Actually, the timing of the event is in question. It's been described as having happened the day before the Fall of Netheril, minutes before the Fall, and at the same time as the Fall. And I don't know of any references that Shar initiated it -- the references that come most readily to mind was that it was initiated by Lord Shadow.
-There's conflicting reports in different sources, yup. The original mention, in the N:EoM box set said that, at a time roughly corresponding with Karsus' Folly, the city was pulled into a misty, shadowy dimension. Exact details were not given. In the short story "Too Long in the Dark", in Realms of Shadow, the scene of the enclave falling ends with the Weave being restored, but Lord Shadow and the other Princes continuing to take the Shade Enclave into the Plane of Shadows. And, finally, Lords of Darkness says that, on the eve of the event, Lord Shadow had the enclave teleported, returned a few weeks later, saw the destruction of Netheril, and went back to the Plane of Shadows until 1,372 DR. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 23 Oct 2008 17:58:59 |
 |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 18:04:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong but Shar basically just yanked the whole of it into the Shadow Plane to keep it all from taking a one-way trip to the floor of the Anauroch...good looking out on her part. Between that and using Cyric to bump off Mystra, boy does she ever know how to capitalize on an opportunity...
Actually, the timing of the event is in question. It's been described as having happened the day before the Fall of Netheril, minutes before the Fall, and at the same time as the Fall. And I don't know of any references that Shar initiated it -- the references that come most readily to mind was that it was initiated by Lord Shadow.
-There's conflicting reports in different sources, yup. The original mention, in the N:EoM box set said that, at a time roughly corresponding with Karsus' Folly, the city was pulled into a misty, shadowy dimension. Exact details were not given. In the short story "Too Long in the Dark", in Realms of Shadow, the scene of the enclave falling ends with the Weave being restored, but Lord Shadow and the other Princes continuing to take the Shade Enclave into the Plane of Shadows. And, finally, Lords of Darkness says that, on the eve of the event, Lord Shadow had the enclave teleported, returned a few weeks later, saw the destruction of Netheril, and went back to the Plane of Shadows until 1,372 DR.
I prefer the Lords of Darkness one, myself. It's the most recent sourcebook, and it makes the most sense, to me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 20:05:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I prefer the Lords of Darkness one, myself. It's the most recent sourcebook, and it makes the most sense, to me.
-I, personally, prefer the depiction in the original Netheril: Empire of Magic source, where it just disappeared, and no one knew what happened to it. The story in Realms of Shadow augments it, explaining what happened to it, and where it went, so I prefer the combination of those two. I don't like the Lords of Darkness source because, I find a lot that is mentioned suspect, when taken in relation with everything else. The Shade Enclave returned with relative ease after Karsus' Folly, left again, and then needed to be summoned via the ritual in The Return of the Archwizards trilogy?
-Meh, but we're drifting off-topic, so I won't elaborate anymore than that. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2008 : 17:55:14
|
Well now that I got my hands on a (free!) PDF of the Forgotten Realms pre-Spellplague campaign setting (3.0), I'm gonna take a shot at running a game in Mulhorand (again). Basically, while a Mulhorandi-Thayan war is raging, the PCs have to actually PREVENT the Spellplague. They don't do that until paragon tier. Until then...they can side with either Thay or Mulhorand 
Like I said, I love the 4E Realms. They add to the excitement and the post-apocolyptic feel fits in nice with me and many of my groups, no matter what you skulky, brooding old-timers say about it 
But I also like the pre-spellplague Realms, and now that I have the PDF of the 3.0 FR Campaign Setting, I'm gonna give it a shot. |
Edited by - UNSpacy on 24 Oct 2008 17:56:46 |
|
|
|
Neo2151
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2008 : 01:13:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
Elaborate on why you think Netheril isn't the Netheril from before. Does this merely stem from anti-4E/anti-4E Realms feelings or does it have to do more with lore or perhaps the fact that Netheril now doesn't encompass as much land as it used to?
Bear in mind, the Shadovar are technically pure Netherese, and for all intents and purposes, the tribes that once roamed Anauroch and the surrounding regions (and likely more outward) were once under Netheril's thumb and so, are Netherese.
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Netheril was an empire of many city-states, of which Shade was a minority. It would be akin to all of America disappearing then having people from Rhode Island* re-appearing and claiming they are America.
*Nothing against Rhode Island, I'm using it because it's the smallest portion of the country.
(Quoted for agreement)
Not to mention that sure, while the Shade of 4E is an extremely powerful nation, it has nothing on the Netheril of yesterday. Just look at magical might alone. The magic of ancient Netheril was potent enough that it would probably only take a handful (at most) of Netherese High Wizards to crush what Shade Enclave was in 3.X. NOW, look how weak the magic of 4E is compared to 3.X.
quote:
Originally posted by UNSpacy
Here's what I don't get: if you don't like the new Realms, why don't you just set your campaign back a couple hundred years? I ran several campaigns involving the PCs in the Fall of Netheril with Karsus, a Untherite rebel group against Mulhorand, and a Purple Dragon Campaign to rid of Zhent Keep...all using 4E rules.
Since magic is such a huge HUGE part of Faerun, and since 4E has nerfed the bejesus out of magic to make things "more balanced" (/sarcasm), then how did you play out Ancient Netheril's magic, (considering, as I said above, even 3.X's magic system had nothing on the magic of that timeframe, and 4E's is even less potent)?
[EDIT]: To stay on topic, I voted no. If I want to stop playing in FR and make my players adapt to brand new rules on a world no one can really claim to be familiar with anymore, I'll switch to some other world. If I want to play in Faerun, I'll play in Faerun; not the ridiculous post-spellplague 'thing' that they're turning FR into. I'll still buy the occasional FR novel that grabs my interest (for example, anything Ed Greenwood of course) but as far as source books for D&D? No more of my money for Wizbro  |
"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."
-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire |
Edited by - Neo2151 on 26 Oct 2008 01:23:37 |
|
|
|
Magister Sunstrider
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2008 : 01:16:09
|
Not one penny of my money will be spent for the MMO ruleset that is 4E (I have a subscription to World of Warcraft for that, and yes it reads like a poorly written MMO insiders guide) and certainly will never get anything for the abomination that is the 4E Forgotten Realms. The one good thing that has come out of 4E for me the the mass of 3.X material I can get for cheap now.
Play what you like and have fun with it by all means, its a game and a hobby. I was attracted to the Forgotten Realms years ago with a second hand copy of the Gray Box by the depth of its lore and sheer scope. To see that all nuked for the FotM MMO crowd is a tremendous shame. I refuse to endorse that nonsense that WotC has tried to sell me. |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2008 : 01:38:46
|
| I concur, I'm still to emersed in 3.5. But I'm writing short stories in 4th to keep up with demand so...whatyagonnado? |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 19:50:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by arry
Do you intend using the post-Spellplague Realms? Either now or in the future, rules-as-written, house ruled or home-brew.
-I voted yes. I will eventually run a 4E FR Game. I still have a bunch of 3E FR Games to play!
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 13:16:28
|
I'm going to run an experiment using the 4E rules for a game set in 1372 DR. My main group is better suited to the much simpler 4E ruleset but I would prefer to use 3.5E if my other group can return to "regular" status.
I will state that I have absolutely no intention of ever using those bare bones that are referred to as FR4E. |
Best
E |
|
|
|
UNSpacy
Seeker
France
78 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 16:01:11
|
| Such colorful words for hating on the Realms and 4e. :| |
Edited by - UNSpacy on 23 Nov 2008 16:01:52 |
|
|
|
Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2008 : 20:45:14
|
I really don't like at all what the developers did with the setting in 4e. I'm certainly not drawn to it. In fact I'm kind of repulsed by it. It feels as if an extraordinary creation, something truly grand, and very intricately constructed in loving detail by many, many sets of hands had been surreptitiously smashed to bits by a bunch of brainless kids. To me what the developers did denotes a fundamental lack of regard for all the hard work and care that went into building up what may be the vastest, most elaborate fantasy setting ever designed.
Anyway, I'm a computer gamer. So what I do revolves around that medium. If a really good game came out that used 4th edition, I'd play it, sure. But for the immediate foreseeable future I'm perfectly content creating mods for the Baldur's Gate series (set in my favorite edition, 2e AD&D). If I ever get the bug to toolset or write lore for a NWN series PW again it could be in 4e but I'll have to see what the future brings. I don't have any plans for it, let's put it that way. |
|
|
|
houstonderek
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 11:57:33
|
I'm not moving on to the 4e Realms. To be honest, the setting (three editions worth of material) will probably just entertain me as reading material form here on out, with an occasional revival for old times sake. I'm going to move on to Pathfinder as my "D&D" rules set, and I'll be exploring the possibilities of Golarion and reviving my homebrew.
I don't particularly care for 4e or the Spellplague Realms, but I am glad that 4e has attracted some new players to the hobby. We need all the fresh blood we can get (and retrain) at this point, lest us Grognards be running the last games in the "Shady Oaks Retirement Home", our grandkids looking on, shaking their heads at the old ones playing that "silly book game" while WoWing from their chip implant... |
|
|
|
Darkheyr
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 13:19:01
|
My group is presently stumbling through the Weloon adventure. If they follow the story line long enough after that, and the campaign actually lasts that long, the "Year of the Revelation" will eventually be reached.
There will be no Spell Plague.
I'm somewhat partial to reviving good olde Bhaal and Myrkul instead. *smirks* |
silm.pw - A Neverwinter Nights Persistent World |
|
|
|
shoonvii
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 18:53:39
|
I'm an old-timer, but I'm making it work. My campaigns have always focused on the characters, not "the big picture" so it hasn't been hard. I really dislike a lot of the changes, but do my best to make it still feel like the Realms. We have continued old storylines from previous editions with long-lived characters or descendants of characters long-dead and the campaign is going strong.
I AM saddened by what has happened to the core community of Realms fans, however. Years ago, it seemed like you could find tons of awesome fan-made stuff online for the Realms, but these days the excitement seems to be gone. The only stuff I can find is the stuff that was there before the transition to 4e (the stuff I already had). The designers seem to have really alienated a lot of folks.
I look forward to more great 4e novels from the likes of Schend and Kemp, though. Those guys have really done a lot with the turd sandwich 4e dealt them. |
|
|
|
Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 19:39:02
|
yeah, which is a shame, cos you know the proverb about polishing a turd.
If I ever had to deal with a Spellplague event in game i'd probably go with my first impression when I heard the first rumours going round, that it was somekind of magical affliction targeted at spellcasters. I suppose in that case you could convert spellscarred into carriers of the sickness. |
|
|
|
Eye of Horus-Re
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 20:12:19
|
| I most certainly voted no. I love my Realms the way it is, thank you very much. With Elminsters and Blackstaves and 7 Sisters and MAGIC MISSLES THAT CANT MISS!!!!! Ok Im done now. :) As for the 4e players. Have fun with it if thats what you like, but I love my FR the way it is. To much work from too many people (Most especially Ed) to just say "Thanks, but all that is worthless now" |
Long live 1384 and that which came before....!!! |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 20:19:20
|
| No surprises here as I never left the TSR era. I wouldn't DM' it, but then again I couldn't have handled the canon 3ed. Realms either. On the other hand, if I, for some strange reason, should end up as a player and the campaign wanted to use the 4ed. Realms, I wouldn't have any problems with participating. I would be as curious as to how the world was presented by the DM as I would by any other new world. |
|
|
|
edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 21:21:54
|
I think everybody should experience it. And then, later take opinions.
(Now I can say that I think 3rd edition realm is better... Even so, 4e realm is very good.) |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
|
|
|
swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 21:37:59
|
[quote]Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
The Shadovar have undergone some changes by becoming Shades and switching their alignment to Shar. The Empire of Netheril of old was neutral in its outlook, I think, and not bound to a single (evil) goddess. On the contrary, Halruaa has every right to claim being the true Empire of Netheril, resembling it much closer than the one (two) city state of New Netheril.
[/quoteare they the same as the shadevari from curse of the shadowmage.according to powers and pantheons they were the 13 lords of shadow and existed before the gods. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 21:44:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
[are they the same as the shadevari from curse of the shadowmage.according to powers and pantheons they were the 13 lords of shadow and existed before the gods.
Nope, those are different. :) Shade is from the Netheril enclave of Shade. Shadevari were from the fight between Shar and Selune, if not earlier. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 22:10:44
|
| It could be that they took up the name when they converted to Shar. |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 23:14:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tyr
It could be that they took up the name when they converted to Shar.
Nope, since they are two completely different things, as I said. :)
Plus, Caledan Caldorien has nothing to do with the Shade Enclave and he, at one point, became the new Shadowking of the Shadevari, which took place ten years or so before the Shade Enclave returned to Faerun.
Rereading the history of the Shadowking, it was created by a artifact and formed it's own empire, which was then destroyed. During one battle with yuan-ti, the Shadowking's armies and the yuan-ti's armies created the Fields of the Dead. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 23 Apr 2009 23:32:06 |
|
|
|
Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 08:58:40
|
Yes, but just because you're different doesn't mean you can't use the name yourself.
Like the Sith in starwars, like Darth Vader, have nothing to do with true sith, but they took up the name anyway. |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 09:36:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tyr
Yes, but just because you're different doesn't mean you can't use the name yourself.
Like the Sith in starwars, like Darth Vader, have nothing to do with true sith, but they took up the name anyway.
Sure, if you want it in your own setting. There's no canon material though. So nope, they don't have any relation to each other.
If you find canon lore to convince me, then I'll agree with you but there isn't any. And that was what swifty was asking and thus the answer is no, there is NO connection with Shade.
I'm really not sure why this continues to be a debate. The Shadevari are a race of beings that are iron-gray lizard scaled, horned, barbed, and clawed and they serve the Shadowking. The Shadovar are the citizens of the Shade Enclave. Neither have any relation to the other.
SIGH. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 24 Apr 2009 10:10:05 |
|
|
|
Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
728 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 13:31:03
|
| How about never? Is never a good and long enough time? I would rather the Year of Blue Fire destroy Toril and all in and on it than... Well, I guess you get where I'm going here. *sigh* |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
|
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2009 : 13:12:44
|
I can't suppress the sense of curiosity I get when pondering the 15th century Realms. I will definately think a couple of good reads set in post spellplague fearun will spark my interest in actually playing there even further.
Good times are ahead with evocative authors such as Cordell, Kemp, Scott-De Bie and others on board!
|
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
RedneckBadgerLord
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2009 : 10:28:31
|
4E is a travesty all around, folks. I'm in the process of writing an alternate future (as are many people these days) in which Mystra is wounded, but not killed.
No I do not like Spellplague, but stopping it is a good plot-device for PCs. |
Redwall. Drizzt. Kentucky. Enough said.
I was weaned on 2E Baldur's Gate. Learned 3.5E, and can't stand 4E WoF. (Though I try not to mess up canon too badly). |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2009 : 15:13:27
|
| Read my LJ and my RANTs and you can guess why I voted no... not that there ever was any doubt |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2009 : 19:18:07
|
Essentaily, 4th Edition is just a collection of ideas as far as I'm concerned. Some good, some bad. While I've seen nothing (especially the state of 4th edition realms) that I would use exclusively, I do like some of the ideas that came with 4th edition. All in all I'd stick with 3rd Edition rules and use 4th edition strictly for new ideas and ways of looking at things.
The new cosmology for one. I think the Elemental Chaos/Astral Sea works better than the old wheel cosmology. I like the Feywild and Shadowfell and feel they can fit into the "Old Realms" without much problem.
As far as the 4th Edition Realms? My feeling is too much lost for too little gained. Lots of great real estate like Mulhorand, Unther, and Halruua lost for no good reason.
I also liked the Gods as they were, no pruning needed. No Exarchs, no Spellplauge to kill a bunch of them off.
I like some of the ideas of Returned Abeir, but I see no reason to loose Maztica and associated lands by dropping a new continent on top of it. Since I've always liked the idea of Spelljammer I'd probably just put a planet called Abeir in the same orbit as Toril, or perhaps use the ideas I like to fill in the "unknown" areas of Toril.
So no to using 4th Edition and it's version of the Realms in it's entirity, but there are ideas here and there that can be used. |
|
|
|
bolf66
Acolyte
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2009 : 00:29:00
|
| yes. and here's why I only do novels for now but I love the realms as much anybody but I know something that some are forgetting. who created this wonderful world we all know and enjoy that's right ED as much much as we care for this beautiful world of ours remember dady ED is still around and I'm possitve he's not gonna let his baby get corupted by a bunch of imps from the abyss (Wotc) he and kemp and salvator and the rest will save us from calamity |
perception is the real truth |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Post-Spellplague Realms
