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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3542 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  14:36:10  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
My good friend Chosen of Moradin made a great point. He would like to see just one scroll where people can discuss 4e Forgotten Realms, the new rules and how things have changed without any negativity.
Seems like a good time to try, I know we all don't like everything about the new realms, but it is my intent to encourage a discussion of just the things you see positively. I think we need a scroll like this were scribes, especially newer ones , can discuss the new realms freely and openly without being "called out", told they are wrong for liking it or even worse.

So lets give it a go!!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3542 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  14:40:41  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I gotta run and get in the combine and harvest some soybeans , but I will start.

I like that Sembia is now controlled by Netheril, it gives a little more cohesion to an area that was pulling in many different directions and also that Cormyr still stands strong and is opposed to them!.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  14:45:25  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, Walker, and imagine the possibilities of intrigue and deceit here. Sembia is very distant of Netheril, so it´s make a fantastic target to Harpers, Cormyrean heroes, and anyone that try to create a band of "bandits" of the road, that steal, harass, and annoy the caravaneers that transport stuff from Netheril to Sembia.

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
879 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  15:02:22  Show Profile  Visit Christopher_Rowe's Homepage Send Christopher_Rowe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm looking forward to seeing what Paul Kemp does in the new Sembia, that's for sure.

In terms of raw rules, I like the Chosen path for PCs a lot, as it's really encouraged one of my PCs to dig in and think about what it means to be an earthly advocate for an undeniably present supernatural being with a limited portfolio (not just mouthing a few transposed RW religious phrases, I mean).

In terms of world/planar stuff, the world of Faerie, in the form of the Feywild, being "next door" lends the elven races a mystery and grandeur that I really dig, and that makes me want to dig out my Edmund Spenser.

Physical geography? I really like earthmotes. I can't wait to see what players and authors do with that move mote ritual.

More later!

Cheers,

Christopher

PS I also really like it that the Red Walker has a job combining soybeans.

My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering.
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  15:33:14  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also like that they made Chosen as an epic destiny. It uses something realmsian and put a rule for it that actually works and isn't broken (like it was in previous editions)

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3542 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  15:36:55  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin

Yes, Walker, and imagine the possibilities of intrigue and deceit here. Sembia is very distant of Netheril, so it´s make a fantastic target to Harpers, Cormyrean heroes, and anyone that try to create a band of "bandits" of the road, that steal, harass, and annoy the caravaneers that transport stuff from Netheril to Sembia.



Yes there is much possiblity for playing either side of the coin in that region, a group of heros of a crew of scoundrels fiot right in!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  15:59:29  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I think we need a scroll like this were scribes, especially newer ones , can discuss the new realms freely and openly without being "called out", told they are wrong for liking it or even worse.




Well, people are supposed to be civil in every thread, no matter what the subject matter is (that's my opinion, anyway).

As for me? Well, I like Returned Abeir, but as I've said before I'd use it as a different setting and give it the name "Laerakond" (as per Ed Greenwood).

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 23 Sep 2008 16:01:12
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  16:02:34  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe

PS I also really like it that the Red Walker has a job combining soybeans.



Yeah, that's neat.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  16:28:58  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

As for me? Well, I like Returned Abeir, but as I've said before I'd use it as a different setting and give it the name "Laerakond" (as per Ed Greenwood).
I'd also allow for an expanded wordcount!

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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3542 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  16:34:39  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I think we need a scroll like this were scribes, especially newer ones , can discuss the new realms freely and openly without being "called out", told they are wrong for liking it or even worse.




Well, people are supposed to be civil in every thread, no matter what the subject matter is (that's my opinion, anyway).

As for me? Well, I like Returned Abeir, but as I've said before I'd use it as a different setting and give it the name "Laerakond" (as per Ed Greenwood).

I agree, but sometime opinions butt heads. And that is ok, but it would be nice to have a scroll where on does not have to go on the defence for saying they like something about 4eFR.

P.S. I love farming and it is it's own reward but it's nice to hear some appreciation once in a while.

Thank you Christopher and Rin, and isn't it cool I can discuss FR whilst in a combine?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 23 Sep 2008 16:37:34
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Pandora
Learned Scribe

Germany
305 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  16:36:38  Show Profile  Visit Pandora's Homepage Send Pandora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

I also like that they made Chosen as an epic destiny. It uses something realmsian and put a rule for it that actually works and isn't broken (like it was in previous editions)

Does it make sense to call someone "chosen" who did the choosing himself? IMO thats a big illusion. The true chosen are chosen by the gods and didnt start calling that themselves.

This kinda reminds me of Paris Hilton and the other "no skills, not having done anything worthwile"-celebrities who are simply famous for being famous and who stage all their appearances.

If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.

- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5

Edited by - Pandora on 23 Sep 2008 16:41:25
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  16:57:08  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't have the text of the Destiny in front of my, but my understanding is that the player is choosing to have their character's Epic Destiny be that of the Chosen, not the character themselves, in which case, its one option that, as long as its okay with the DM and they can work it into the campaign, should work out fine.

As I said, though, I don't have the text in front of me and it may imply something different.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3542 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  17:01:17  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

I don't have the text of the Destiny in front of my, but my understanding is that the player is choosing to have their character's Epic Destiny be that of the Chosen, not the character themselves, in which case, its one option that, as long as its okay with the DM and they can work it into the campaign, should work out fine.

As I said, though, I don't have the text in front of me and it may imply something different.



Good to see you posting old friend!

I don't understand this well either. So by choosing this destiny does you pc at some point become chosen or are you just choosing to emulate a chosen lifestyle? is anyone sure how it works?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  17:03:50  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora

Does it make sense to call someone "chosen" who did the choosing himself?


Hey!!!

quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I don't have the text of the Destiny in front of my, but my understanding is that the player is choosing to have their character's Epic Destiny be that of the Chosen, not the character themselves, in which case, its one option that, as long as its okay with the DM and they can work it into the campaign, should work out fine.

As I said, though, I don't have the text in front of me and it may imply something different.


It´s exactly this, Knight. The chosen don´t "choose" himself, he is a chosen of his god.

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  17:56:24  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

I don't have the text of the Destiny in front of my, but my understanding is that the player is choosing to have their character's Epic Destiny be that of the Chosen, not the character themselves, in which case, its one option that, as long as its okay with the DM and they can work it into the campaign, should work out fine.



Don't you know many have problems with players having any power on the campaign ?
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  17:59:10  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How many campaigns actually go above level 20 though????

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
879 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  18:04:32  Show Profile  Visit Christopher_Rowe's Homepage Send Christopher_Rowe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

How many campaigns actually go above level 20 though????



Nikolai Wanderer, please pick up a white courtesy phone. Paging Nikolai Wanderer.

My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering.
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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1615 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  02:24:33  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

I don't have the text of the Destiny in front of my, but my understanding is that the player is choosing to have their character's Epic Destiny be that of the Chosen, not the character themselves, in which case, its one option that, as long as its okay with the DM and they can work it into the campaign, should work out fine.

As I said, though, I don't have the text in front of me and it may imply something different.



Good to see you posting old friend!

I don't understand this well either. So by choosing this destiny does you pc at some point become chosen or are you just choosing to emulate a chosen lifestyle? is anyone sure how it works?




quoted in part from the FRPG page 72

"Your deity chooses you to serve as his or her proxy in mortal affairs. You protect your deity’s worshipers, battle your deity’s enemies, and champion your deity’s causes. To suit you for this task, your deity breathes into your soul a spark of divine energy that grants you powers comparable to those of a demigod. As with the Demigod epic destiny detailed in the Player’s Handbook, a divine spark increases all your powers. Unlike the Demigod, you are sworn to the service of a particular deity. While operating as an epic hero, you can function as a worldly exarch, receiving advice and commissions from your deity."

I feel that the answer to the question of choosing or being "chosen" in game terms, would be a mutual agreement with the DM and the player to go down this path. Besides the prereqs are a level 21 character. This is not going to be a big deal in many games and certainly no worse than half of Faerun running around as Dark Elven Rangers, wielding dual Scimitars

"Yap,yap, little dog!" - Riven - page 326 Shadowbred, by Paul Kemp

_________________________

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Edited by - scererar on 24 Sep 2008 02:26:22
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3542 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  13:29:46  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scererar

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

I don't have the text of the Destiny in front of my, but my understanding is that the player is choosing to have their character's Epic Destiny be that of the Chosen, not the character themselves, in which case, its one option that, as long as its okay with the DM and they can work it into the campaign, should work out fine.

As I said, though, I don't have the text in front of me and it may imply something different.



Good to see you posting old friend!

I don't understand this well either. So by choosing this destiny does you pc at some point become chosen or are you just choosing to emulate a chosen lifestyle? is anyone sure how it works?




quoted in part from the FRPG page 72

"Your deity chooses you to serve as his or her proxy in mortal affairs. You protect your deity’s worshipers, battle your deity’s enemies, and champion your deity’s causes. To suit you for this task, your deity breathes into your soul a spark of divine energy that grants you powers comparable to those of a demigod. As with the Demigod epic destiny detailed in the Player’s Handbook, a divine spark increases all your powers. Unlike the Demigod, you are sworn to the service of a particular deity. While operating as an epic hero, you can function as a worldly exarch, receiving advice and commissions from your deity."

I feel that the answer to the question of choosing or being "chosen" in game terms, would be a mutual agreement with the DM and the player to go down this path. Besides the prereqs are a level 21 character. This is not going to be a big deal in many games and certainly no worse than half of Faerun running around as Dark Elven Rangers, wielding dual Scimitars



Thanks for the clarification!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  14:42:37  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I agree, but sometime opinions butt heads. And that is ok, but it would be nice to have a scroll where on does not have to go on the defence for saying they like something about 4eFR.


True.

quote:
P.S. I love farming and it is it's own reward but it's nice to hear some appreciation once in a while.

Thank you Christopher and Rin, and isn't it cool I can discuss FR whilst in a combine?



Heh--I like plants (especially succulents) and gardening, so I can appreciate what farmers do.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  14:43:54  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora

Does it make sense to call someone "chosen" who did the choosing himself? IMO thats a big illusion. The true chosen are chosen by the gods and didnt start calling that themselves.



I would argue that even though the player chose the ED, the character most likely did not. And as always, EDs can be regulated by the DM.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3079 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  14:55:20  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

How many campaigns actually go above level 20 though????



At my last count, just the one. But it was a fine campaign.

In regards to the Chosen destiny, I (and most of those I play with) like a good story and a reason behind things. Like Ed has said about El and other powerful characters in the past, They are NPCs that are meant to be story elements that can, and will, do whatever the DM needs to keep the story going. I mentioned it before, but Shadowrun had the 'elder' dragons and immortal elves in their setting and had refused to publish statistics for these characters for a long time just so the GM was freed up to have them do whatever they want and prevent the characters from killing them off.

The Chosen template in the old system was the god/goddess saying "I'm choosing you to represent my faiths and beliefs on the world". MANY Chosen did not want to be (*ahem* Erevis and, if I remember my El: MoM correctly, it took a while for El to 'come around'), and the rest seemed to be very surprised of the honor.

Storywise, let's take a look at my game. As you can tell, Ashe Ravenheart is my favorite character of all editions. I began with Ashe in AD&D as a first level ranger. He survived edition changes, plane-hopping and the destruction and rebirth of an entire world (he actually dealt the killing blow to the god doing the destruction). I was able to bring him into 3rd Edition and epic level, (the campaign above) and he's still out there adventuring, waiting for the moment to pop in again.

And he was a Chosen of Mielikki.

Am I a power gamer? Was I building an über-hero? Nope. He was a simple ranger that fought on the side of Mielikki, most often against Lolth. He didn't have any abilities or powers labeling him as 'Chosen' and, if he fell in battle, Mielikki would welcome him in her arms.

The only thing that being Chosen got him was that Mielikki would send him to where he was needed. IOW, he would be teleported to his next 'assignment' (a là Quantum Leap).

Now that I got the backstory out of the way, I can finally talk about why I don't like 'Chosen' as an epic destiny. It's not meant to be a goal or a set of cool powers. It's meant to be a story device, IMHO, that propels the player to show the character in a different light. What did El, the Sisters and the other Chosen get? A unnaturally long life of service, pain, some joy and the silver fire. What did Erevis get (all right, we don't know the end yet, but still)? He has become a shade and is just starting to see the long servitude in front of him. It's not something that a normal, sane person would sign up for.

But, 4E gave us the rules for it, so now you're going to see campaign after campaign of 'Chosen' popping up. There are a lot of different paths, but I still think that it's going to happen.

So, we'll have a horde of new 'Chosen' in the realms who are there because of a cool power and not because it works in the story.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  15:05:41  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My primary objection might be the fact that "Chosen" is an epic destiny, even though there's a long history of "Chosen" status being granted to people who haven't even reached the high levels yet.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  15:22:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

How many campaigns actually go above level 20 though????



At my last count, just the one. But it was a fine campaign.

In regards to the Chosen destiny, I (and most of those I play with) like a good story and a reason behind things. Like Ed has said about El and other powerful characters in the past, They are NPCs that are meant to be story elements that can, and will, do whatever the DM needs to keep the story going. I mentioned it before, but Shadowrun had the 'elder' dragons and immortal elves in their setting and had refused to publish statistics for these characters for a long time just so the GM was freed up to have them do whatever they want and prevent the characters from killing them off.

The Chosen template in the old system was the god/goddess saying "I'm choosing you to represent my faiths and beliefs on the world". MANY Chosen did not want to be (*ahem* Erevis and, if I remember my El: MoM correctly, it took a while for El to 'come around'), and the rest seemed to be very surprised of the honor.

Storywise, let's take a look at my game. As you can tell, Ashe Ravenheart is my favorite character of all editions. I began with Ashe in AD&D as a first level ranger. He survived edition changes, plane-hopping and the destruction and rebirth of an entire world (he actually dealt the killing blow to the god doing the destruction). I was able to bring him into 3rd Edition and epic level, (the campaign above) and he's still out there adventuring, waiting for the moment to pop in again.

And he was a Chosen of Mielikki.

Am I a power gamer? Was I building an über-hero? Nope. He was a simple ranger that fought on the side of Mielikki, most often against Lolth. He didn't have any abilities or powers labeling him as 'Chosen' and, if he fell in battle, Mielikki would welcome him in her arms.

The only thing that being Chosen got him was that Mielikki would send him to where he was needed. IOW, he would be teleported to his next 'assignment' (a là Quantum Leap).

Now that I got the backstory out of the way, I can finally talk about why I don't like 'Chosen' as an epic destiny. It's not meant to be a goal or a set of cool powers. It's meant to be a story device, IMHO, that propels the player to show the character in a different light. What did El, the Sisters and the other Chosen get? A unnaturally long life of service, pain, some joy and the silver fire. What did Erevis get (all right, we don't know the end yet, but still)? He has become a shade and is just starting to see the long servitude in front of him. It's not something that a normal, sane person would sign up for.

But, 4E gave us the rules for it, so now you're going to see campaign after campaign of 'Chosen' popping up. There are a lot of different paths, but I still think that it's going to happen.

So, we'll have a horde of new 'Chosen' in the realms who are there because of a cool power and not because it works in the story.



Not only that, but Chosen were supposedly a problem that had to be removed... The new books haven't had time to even collect dust, and yet the supposed problem is now back.

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3542 Posts

Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  15:35:05  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

How many campaigns actually go above level 20 though????



At my last count, just the one. But it was a fine campaign.

In regards to the Chosen destiny, I (and most of those I play with) like a good story and a reason behind things. Like Ed has said about El and other powerful characters in the past, They are NPCs that are meant to be story elements that can, and will, do whatever the DM needs to keep the story going. I mentioned it before, but Shadowrun had the 'elder' dragons and immortal elves in their setting and had refused to publish statistics for these characters for a long time just so the GM was freed up to have them do whatever they want and prevent the characters from killing them off.

The Chosen template in the old system was the god/goddess saying "I'm choosing you to represent my faiths and beliefs on the world". MANY Chosen did not want to be (*ahem* Erevis and, if I remember my El: MoM correctly, it took a while for El to 'come around'), and the rest seemed to be very surprised of the honor.

Storywise, let's take a look at my game. As you can tell, Ashe Ravenheart is my favorite character of all editions. I began with Ashe in AD&D as a first level ranger. He survived edition changes, plane-hopping and the destruction and rebirth of an entire world (he actually dealt the killing blow to the god doing the destruction). I was able to bring him into 3rd Edition and epic level, (the campaign above) and he's still out there adventuring, waiting for the moment to pop in again.

And he was a Chosen of Mielikki.

Am I a power gamer? Was I building an über-hero? Nope. He was a simple ranger that fought on the side of Mielikki, most often against Lolth. He didn't have any abilities or powers labeling him as 'Chosen' and, if he fell in battle, Mielikki would welcome him in her arms.

The only thing that being Chosen got him was that Mielikki would send him to where he was needed. IOW, he would be teleported to his next 'assignment' (a là Quantum Leap).

Now that I got the backstory out of the way, I can finally talk about why I don't like 'Chosen' as an epic destiny. It's not meant to be a goal or a set of cool powers. It's meant to be a story device, IMHO, that propels the player to show the character in a different light. What did El, the Sisters and the other Chosen get? A unnaturally long life of service, pain, some joy and the silver fire. What did Erevis get (all right, we don't know the end yet, but still)? He has become a shade and is just starting to see the long servitude in front of him. It's not something that a normal, sane person would sign up for.

But, 4E gave us the rules for it, so now you're going to see campaign after campaign of 'Chosen' popping up. There are a lot of different paths, but I still think that it's going to happen.

So, we'll have a horde of new 'Chosen' in the realms who are there because of a cool power and not because it works in the story.



Not only that, but Chosen were supposedly a problem that had to be removed... The new books haven't had time to even collect dust, and yet the supposed problem is now back.



I understand and somewhat agree with you, but this is not the right scroll for the discussion to drift this in direction.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Christopher_Rowe
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Posted - 24 Sep 2008 :  15:37:12  Show Profile  Visit Christopher_Rowe's Homepage Send Christopher_Rowe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think that the idea of the Chosen was considered a problem per se. Their reduction in number a hundred years on is, instead, in keeping with the general design stance towards how long a census of "world shaking" NPCs should be. This article describes a mechanism for the PCs, natch.

My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering.
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