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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1864 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  03:53:35  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I have a pretty good idea of what to import to Unther in DR 1373. Food, armour, weapons, battlemagic and mercenaries all command many times their price in peacetime. Battletrained horses, medical supplies and magic with auxiliary uses useful in combat likewise carry a high premium.

But what does the enterprising merchant take away from that wartorn place? What do the various factions in embattled Messemprar have to fill the holds of the ships that slip past the Mulhorandi blockade?

Slaves is one obvious answer and the Zhents, for one, are probably happy to buy them in bulk. They can be resold on the Pirate Isles, in Thay or the Vilhon Reach; or they can be moved home and put to work.

The Untheric forces are also likely to have 'saved' a great amount of treasure when they retreated, so they'll have gold bullion, coin and art of great value (most likely formerly of religious significance). But that's not heavy cargo and a canny merchant hates to sail with a half-empty hold.

What else is there? What can the Untherites sell cheaply that someone else will pay a great deal of coin for?

Does free Unther mine metals, precious or otherwise? Do they have vast quarries full of unsold marble waiting for customers too timid to sail wartorn waters? Do their craftsmen have worshops full of urns, statuettes and various trinkets that are now in very little demand due to the poverty of most of their fellow citizens?

And would any of these items be in demand in Thay?

What can my fellow scribes think of here?

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1864 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  15:35:30  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan

The 3E FRCS mentions the following as exports from Unther: ceramics, cloth, gold, iron, minerals, sculpture, and seed oil.


True, but that entry refers both to occupied Unther and the small part still free.

I somehow get the impression that the factions active in Messemprar has access to a lot less of the natural resources of Unther than the Mulhorandi.

For example, just where are the mines that supply the gold, iron and minerals? Have they already been captured or does free Unther hold them? I'd say it's likely that Mulhorandi troops have taken over them and they now send their produce home to Skuld.

What resources remain near Messemprar?

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1864 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2008 :  16:47:05  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan

I'm not sure I agree with you on that interpretation. As I read the text, it seems to me to refer fairly specifically to "free" Unther. Unthalass is mentioned as the former capital, etc.

Ah, yes, but Unthalass is mentioned. So I assumed that the economic data refered collectively to all the polities mentioned.

But in any event, I agree that these goods are excellent examples of the kind of thing the Untherites are likely to try to produce.

quote:
Originally posted by capnvan

Well, among other things, the River of Metals flows right by Messemprar. Old Empires indicates that this river has significant gold deposits, and, while at the time of writing, no important resource extraction was going on, during the desperate hours Unther now faces, one would expect that would be one obvious choice.

Yes, that's true. Dragons of Faerun mentions that the reason no resource extraction is done there is that chromatic dragons in the service of Alasklerbanbantos fly down from the Riders in the Sky Mountains and claim all the proceeds for themselves.

That would argue that it's possible for the Church of Tiamat in Messemprar (nominally allied with the Great Bone Wyrm during the Rage) to sponsor a mining expedition there.

Good. I'll make the Church rich in ore, but without access to smelting. Since Messemprar hasn't been a mining outpost for so long, I doubt it's all that easy to set up the necessary infrastructure during a time of war and famine.

quote:
Originally posted by capnvan

Sculpture and ceramics would likely be available at rock bottom prices, given the refugee situation. Unther has been famed for its production of those for some time.

Agreed and the PCs were hoping for some good 'native' art. I wonder if that would sell well in Thay or if it would be worth their while to transport it all the way to Telflamm instead?

quote:
Originally posted by capnvan

Again, those are just off the top of my head - someone else may have more.


Thank you. That was helpful.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1864 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2008 :  03:40:57  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are you telling me we have no scribes with even a hint of gnomish blood, salivating at the thought of indecent profit and filthy lucre? No war profiteers, no sharks in human form? Not a single worshipper of Urdlen? Heck, I'd settle for a Waukeenar!

I'm thinking that there would be several major factions.

Number 1, there's the Northern Wizards. They have access to most common items, such as pottery, ceramics, artwork and seed oil (taken as tax). They are also likely to have reserves of gold, silver and gems. They are willing to buy food, weapons and magic.

Shurlash, The Defender of Messemprar, speaks with the greatest authority in the councils of the Northern Wizards. The deaths of his friend Larsa and so many others of his fellow wizards at the hand of Shurupakk the Reaper still shadow his heart, but for the sake of Messemprar and Unther, he perseveres. He's grown harder by painful experiences and the great spells he wielded to save his city from Gilgeam's tyranny have left him with an almost palpable arcane aura. Only the fear that Mulhorandi overlords would be just as bad as Untheri ones has kept him from giving in to Nimrud el-Ishtar's pleas to cleanse the city of former Gilgeamites and Untheri generals of the old order.

Ubarum Bronzehand was a mild-mannered youth when the slave uprising started in 1357 DR. Now he's a hardened battlemage of thirty winters; having stood against Shurupakk the Reaver, the armies of Unther, Chessentan mercenaries, the forces of Tiamat, the Gray Ghosts of Furifax and the armies of the Pharoah. His right hand is an enchanted prosthetic of bronze, the relic of Shurupakk's rampage against the Northern Wizards, and countless other battles have lined his handsome Mulan face with scars and weary caution. He (along with his blink dog familiar, Urimi) will handle negotiations with foreign merchants until he's established that they can be trusted well enough to meet Nimrud or Shurlash.

Khazara of Greenfields and her ally, the priestess Utuhegel of Ishtar, are fiercely anti-Gilgeam, but are also increasingly begun to fear and distrust the influence of Mystra. As a consequence, they are considering whether it might be better to come to favourable terms with the Mulhorandi and have secretly started to negotiate with priestesses of the godess Isis to that end. So far, their concerns are not shared by the majority of the Northern Wizards, but their basic message of hoping for peace, even at the expense of personal or political power, is a popular one.

The Northern Wizards would back any faction that promised a more benevolent future for Unther and could convince them that there was a reasonable chance for success. After some mysterious business carried out in the cooperation with the Enclave, they possess a fortune in precious stones and uncut diamonds. They are buying food from the PCs for some of that.

2) The Army of Unther. Mostly independent of the Northern Wizards, but not very political. Focused on the war, to the exclusion of most other things. I'm guessing that there are several potential leaders and I'll detail three of them. Of those, one is being supported by the Red Wizards for potential future puppet rule in whatever remains of Unther.

General Ungred, Sardaar-e Unthalass, Sepah-Salaar, is the highest ranking military man that survived the summer campaign. He was previously commander of the Unthalass militia and reserves and thus commanded the largest group of soldier in the beaten Untheri army. He's an educated minor nobleman whose courtly manners are better than most of the high nobles, well-groomed and very literate. He's seen more than seventy winters, but his health is still good and he still has an eye for nubile maidens to be his wives, good wine and poetry. He wants to preserve the glory that was Unther and to that end he strives to keep the disparate noblemen and military officers under his command united. His efforts are hampered by his lack of a credible grand strategy, since he can neither meet the larger Mulhorandi army in battle nor afford a long siege.

Azam Bahadur Oriseus is a half-Chessentan career soldier in Unther's army, but his sympathies are entirely Untheric. He commands the Immortal Phalanx, a former part of Gilgeam's elite guard that can still field two hundred soldiers, and due to his formiddable reputation for ferocity, many of the leaderless soldiers of the army have attached themselves to his banner. He is aggressive to a fault and chafes at being holed up in a city instead of taking the fight to the enemy. If he can enroll two or three thousand reliable men in addition to the five thousand he commands, he'll take his forces out for a winter campaign that aims to decimate the unprepared Mulhorandi.

After an act of more-or-less high-way robbery, he came into possession of 3000 lbs. of gold from the Tiamatians (and by smelting down coin). Publicly, the flight of his thousand men from the mining camps were viewed as a defeat, but they lost none and arrived back home in good order. At the sites of the camps, there is more gold ore, tin and copper.

Horat Annunakizâde, Sardaar-e Messemprar. The third son of the previous Great Lord of Messemprar (slain by Shurlash of the Northern Wizards), this petty, vindictive man wields great power simply because of his appointment shorty before the ToT as the General of Messemprar's armies. He controls only five hundred soldiers of any worth, but the forcibly conscripted militia of the city and surrounding area has been put at his disposal, which means that he commands nearly 12,000 untrained soldiers and camp slaves.

He needs food badly and is almost as desperate for weapons, but can only pay with goods seized from the city at swordpoint. A fundamentally timid man, he hopes that someone else will take the initiative and has nagged endlessly to Lord Ungred on the subject of seizing power in the city from the Northern Wizards.

Great Lord (as he wishes to be styled) Horat has recently made an allegiance with the Red Wizards and posing as his scribe is an agent of Samas Kul, the Autarch of the Guild of Foreign Trade. The man is a powerful Transmuter who uses the name Mirza Samar in his guise as a learned freeman. Mirza Samar has used his magic to destroy two mid-ranking officers whose scorn of Horat was particularly open and spreads rumours that their deaths were caused by a disagreement with the Northern Wizards. In doing so, he also acquired some stores of coin and treasure that can be used to buy food and arms. Two new lieutinants have also joined Horat, Thayan Knights well versed in military science, and they have started to reform his rabble into something resembling an army. So far, 2,000 of his men have been drilled into a modicum of readiness, though they lack arms.

After losing a battle on the eve of 4th Tarsakh, 1373 DR, to a landing force of Mulhorandi on the River of Metals, Great Lord Horat has fewer men under his command than before. Ironically, though, since he urged caution before the battle, the military defeat strengthened his voice in council.

Mirza Sin-Nasir is a clerk and secretary that more or less runs the army quartermaster's office. He's an oily and charming man, with effeminate features and a flowery vocabulary. At the moment, his allegiance is with Lord Ungred, but Great Lord Horat has made him interesting offers of personal enrichment and he'd not be averse to a change in the high command if it involved being able to divert some of the army supplies his way.

The army probably has oodles of loot from conquered parts of Unther, since it's better to take things yourselves than let the enemy get their filthy heretic hands on them. Expect to see religious art, hoards of precious metals and a surprising wealth of magic (and that which is not useful in battle will be available at cut-rate prices). They'll offer to pay in trade bars, but can be bargained with for much of the art objects (the value of which they do not necessarily know).

They are primarily seeking weapons, but will be interested in martial magic and at least enough food to last them a campaign or two. That means potentially several thousand tons of food, which they desperately need. They'll not offer the best price for it, though, since they know that the Northern Wizard would be forced to turn a large part of any purchases they made to the prime fighting forces.

3) Gray Ghosts, Furifax's rebels and bandits. The most resource-poor faction, but still in possession of some coin, an astonishing amount of random items taken as loot and whatever wealth several of their rich patrons can get their hands on.

Only have a few hundred men within Free Unther, but will pay well to equip those with magic gear. Need food for those as well. If they can get the food for an acceptable price, would be interested in distributing it for free as a public relation stunt. Also have bands of bandits and Shaaran tribesmen in the south, fighting the Mulhorandi, and those could use steel weapons and armour.

Edit: Lost most of their agents within Messemprar in the events of The Alabaster Staff. Rumours to the effect that Furifax himself has entered the city with some of his best slyblades cannot be confirmed, but it is certain that the Gray Ghosts do not mean to be left out of the future of Free Unther.

4) Church of Tiamat. Allied (nominally) with the Cult of the Dragon. Possesses useful magic items (and will sell non-martial ones), a good quantity of copper, tin and gold ore (gained from mining camps guarded by Cult of the Dragon forces by the River of Metals) and trade bars. Need weapons for several hundred warriors and plan to use food as a recruiting tool.

Would have paid extravagant amounts for lifestock, since their dragons (even though protected by Cult spells from the worst of the Rage) were both hungry and unhappy. Cult agents from Threskel and Unthalass still desire food for their dragons.

Edit: As a faction within Messeprar, all but destroyed by the events of The Alabaster Staff. All that remains are a few priests gone into hiding, what agents other factions of the church had and the former High Priestess Tiglath.

The mining camps were taken over by forces loyal to Azam Bahadur Oriseum at the end of Ches. They were forced to flee when a large contingent of Mulhorandi landed near them, but buried what treasure they didn't manage to take with them.

5) Ghavam-Molk Urimzâda. Untheri nobleman, former fanatic of Gilgeam and now a megalomaniac out to serve himself. The commander of the Supreme Legion of the Father of Victory, an elite private force of almost a thousand warriors that is not attached to the army, but remains one of the strongest formation in the Untheri battleline.

Seeks to bolster his ranks with mercenaries and Untheri soldiers willing to swear a personal oath of loyalty to him. To that end, needs all the food, arms and magic he can get. Lacks funds, but is willing to rob the common people until he has a fortune large enough to pay. Will mostly pay in trade goods, but if he learned of the formerly Tiamat-owned mining camps, he'd be quick to rob them.

6) Ishram-al-Mamaalek, Sardaar-e Thamor, Ishramzâde. No longer has any claim on the lordship of Thamor (although his family did and he holds much land around it). Former leader of the Divine Legion of the Master of Wars, now commands a force of few hundred who call themselves the Black Lord's Legion. Worshipper of Bane and allied with Imperceptor Kabbarath Telthaug.

Has access to the food the Zhentarim manage to bring in despite the blockade, but that is not enough for the templar army he wants to bring to Messemprar. Will pay for food, weapons and magic. Prefers to pay in the plentiful coin that the Zhentarim are willing to spend on increasing the influence of the Black Lord's Altar, but can also get his hands on Mourktar and Thamor trade goods.

7) Gibbur Mara'ed-Dowleh. The venal, self-serving master of Messemprar's harbour still retains his sinecure under the Northern Wizards (who have neither the time, aptitude nor security of rule to install their own men in all governmental functionary positions). He wants to enrich himself any way he can and currently, that's likely to be by trying to 'nationalise' the cargoes of any ships that unload on his wharves. He'll offer a price for them, in coin, that provies a 'fair' margin of profit, but is barely half of what he could sell food and weapons for to other factions.

After a conflict in early Ches, Gibbur almost lost his position to the army. He sought refuge with the Zhentarim, who now use him as their figurehead in political circles.

8) Ziyatum-saltaneh. One of the many descendants of Gilgeam, this nobleman abandoned all thoughts of his divine heritage the moment that cruel god was killed by Tiamat. He now serves the Great Bone Wyrm of Old Unther and has been assigned a draconic advisor, Zahr-e Halahel, a canny green sorcerer who has recently been made a dracolich despite his young age (juvenile).

Seeks to build his own power faction in Free Unther (but has hardly begun his work yet), so he's prepared to buy arms, food and magic and pay well for them. Has good contacts among the duergar of the Riders-to-the-Sky Mountains and can get trade bars and ore from there. Also possesses land to the southwest of Messemprar where he has hoarded amazing amounts of loot from Untheri temples. Finally, he was heavily into mining before the fall of Gilgeam and still has access to rich marble mines (most have been captured by the Mulhorandi, but he shipped the best rock with him to Messemprar).

9) Kamran Shaahzaadeh el-Gilgeam. A magnificent physical specimen, this son of Gilgeam is even more vain and short-sighted than his sire. He stands more than seven foot tall and can slay men by the dozens with his divine gifts, but he can neither command an army nor administer a city. Nevertheless, his personal courage (some would say foolhardiness) and noble lineage have won him the loyalty of many of Gilgeam's former priests and other old-guard.

His personal heroism in the battle at the River of Metals has made him a popular hero in the beginning of Tarsakh and rumours that he plans to take the field again and throw the impudent Mulhorandi back into the sea are rampant. Has collected a retinue of some four hundred men, former noble retinuers, who are armed with a variety of arms.

He's a hard man to deal with and flatly refuses to bargain, but he has access to a lot of the wealth 'rescued' by former priests and if dealt with through intermediaries, he can buy food and arms at reasonable prices. Through a stroke of luck, one of his followers (a former Gilgeamite priest named Namur Shiggurah) controls a secret cave outside the city where there's a rich supply of alabaster, including the exceedingly rare black alabaster.

His 'Imperial Steward', Izzar Ataabak-e Azam (former priest), is a scheming man with many-layered plots going on and currently has contacts with both the Zhentarim and the Red Wizards. If Kamran will ever be accepted as a ruler of 'Free' Unther, Izzar shall assuredly steer the policy while Kamran indulges his lust for adoration and other things.

10) Ur-shubula Gilgeamzadeh, Naayeb-saltaneh. The Regent of Old Unther claims to hold the office of his Divine Father in trust until he eventual return. His followers are mostly deranged priests who refuse to accept the loss of Gilgeam and he has little wealth or actual political power. His appearance is also unimpressive, as he's small and dark, more like a clerk than a king. He's cunning, though, and has begun to seek an allegiance with the Great Bone Wyrm and/or the Banites of Mourktar. He has established friendly relations with both these factions, without either finding out that he's in contact with both.

He has few resources of value, but in a pinch, he could sell several magical items of great power (that neither he nor anyone of his fellows knows how to wield) and a chest of jewels that he appropriated during the retreat.

11) Hegemony of Artisans. This guild controls all the potters, finecarvers, weavers and other craftsmen in Messemprar. It's led by the Hegemon, Reza Ostad, an alabaster carver who has held the position for three decades and is having difficulty adjusting to the new state of things. As a consequence, Buhazum Mur, a very skilled young sculptor and secret sympathiser of the slave uprising has been handling more and more of the daily business of the guild. He's already moved from Reza's personal assistant to the position of First Artisan and most people expect him to succeed the old master when death finally claims him.

The Hegemon wants food to feed guildmembers and their families, but Buhazum thinks beyond that and is quietly organising armed militias to keep the peace and effectively governs a significant part of the city's mercantile quarter.

While taxation and extortion are rife, the Hegemony has mostly managed to hang on to the finest examples of the guildmember's work and can thus pay in fine ceramics, works of Untheri art and woven cloth.

12) Lord Dama's Non-Slaves. A loose group of slaves, ex-slaves and their children, this group is usually not acknowledged by the other factions and if it is, it is most likely referred to as 'the remnants of that failed slave uprising'. The charismatic gladiator that led them, Dama of Chessenta, was slain by Shurupakk the Reaver before the ToT, but his memory lives on in the hearts of his followers. As Untheri forces did not occupy the city again, many of them survived the years in between, and this secret society now controls much of the docks and the poor part of town.

They provide succor and aid to escaped slaves, work against factions that mistreat slaves and oppose both any continuation of Gilgeamite rule and the Mulhorandi invasion. Their leader is a secret council, The Unchained Lords, but unknown to the majority of their members, they effectively follow Ruduk, a Red Wizard of Thay sent long ago by Zulkir of Enchantment Lauzoril to increase Thayan influence in Messemprar, but now almost autonomonous.

Their Speaker, Zam the Unbowed, will appeal to the charity of any food merchants and earnestly ask for their assistence in feeding his teeming hordes of poor. He'll approach them secretly and only speak if he feels secure in that he won't be betrayed to the Zhentarim or the Untheri army.

13) The Enclave. Although based in Greenfields, the Enclave keep a close eye on the situation in Messemprar. Esarheddon Fireheart is stationed there as an unofficial ambassador and constantly pushes for a more active involvement by his fellow wizards of the Enclave.

The most powerful voice among them is Isimud the Seeker. He is old, wise and kindly and wishes for a benevolent power group to rule Unther. He is increasingly beginning to see that no outside group will do so, but feels too old, too unwordly and too fallible to do so himself. He has considered training someone for the role, but is sceptical that any man may wield such power without being corrupted by it.

Isimud will send Esarhaddon Fireheart to speak on his behalf unless the deal is of paramount importance. If Isimud considered anyone for the role of future leader of Unther, it would be Esarheddon, his favorite apprentice and a deeply compassionate and honorable man. Unfortunately, Esarheddon is also passionate and all too willing to use force to fight for his principles, qualities that Isimud fears if he should ever possess as much power as Gilgeam did.

The Enclave will buy food in exchange for scrolls of southern magic and magical items that they have no immediate use for (this includes extremely powerful clerical items). They'll use this food to alleviate the worst of the suffering among the poorest segments of Unther.

Any more thoughts?

Edit: Factions of Thay-influence updated and clarified.

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Edited by - Icelander on 15 Apr 2011 09:39:00
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Pandora
Learned Scribe

Germany
305 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2008 :  21:23:51  Show Profile  Visit Pandora's Homepage Send Pandora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing which is usually ignored in our PHB and DMG is the difference in prices in various regions. Obviously this is a very complex thing, but it is the one thing that drives people to trade. You buy cheap and sell for a profit somewhere else. These profits must be worth a lot of effort sometimes (hiring guards, feeding the caravan, building a ship), so they should be substantial. Sadly none of the FR campaign books give a hint on this, but it might also be a good idea to find out how much DMs are charging for certain key goods in different areas to develop a feel for "good trade routes".

If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.

- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5

Edited by - Pandora on 21 Oct 2008 21:26:28
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1864 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2008 :  10:32:05  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pandora

One thing which is usually ignored in our PHB and DMG is the difference in prices in various regions. Obviously this is a very complex thing, but it is the one thing that drives people to trade. You buy cheap and sell for a profit somewhere else. These profits must be worth a lot of effort sometimes (hiring guards, feeding the caravan, building a ship), so they should be substantial. Sadly none of the FR campaign books give a hint on this, but it might also be a good idea to find out how much DMs are charging for certain key goods in different areas to develop a feel for "good trade routes".


Well, obviously the prices of things depend on the distance from the nearest supply of them.

For example, crop prices in Thay are usually only 70% of normal, due to the huge acricultural industry there. By contrast, crop prices in a crisis can reach 1000% or more.

Since the sea route from Thay (which had its usual good harvest in 1372 DR) to Messemprar (which is full of starving refugees) is only a couple of hundred miles, that means that anyone willing to risk running the Mulhorandi blockade stands to make staggering profits.

What I was mainly wondering is what such a merchant would take in trade for his acricultural produce, since adulterating of the coinage and the economic situation has made the Unhteri shekel all but worthless.

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Sian
Senior Scribe

Denmark
596 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2010 :  14:39:56  Show Profile  Visit Sian's Homepage Send Sian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i'd say that they'll take some ekstra to use as raw material which they can in turn sell to a more economical trusted Minter, since FR is still in a state where coinage worth is still more or less calculated by the ammount of valuable metal

say ... 1 pound of material makes 50 coins of said material

maybe they'd like to get (before adding risk/demand profits) 60 coins (ie 20% more) of which they can use 5 of them to pay a Minter and the other 5 of them for the trouble of finding a minter and accepting a untrusted coinage

what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1864 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2010 :  17:20:01  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sian

i'd say that they'll take some ekstra to use as raw material which they can in turn sell to a more economical trusted Minter, since FR is still in a state where coinage worth is still more or less calculated by the ammount of valuable metal

say ... 1 pound of material makes 50 coins of said material

maybe they'd like to get (before adding risk/demand profits) 60 coins (ie 20% more) of which they can use 5 of them to pay a Minter and the other 5 of them for the trouble of finding a minter and accepting a untrusted coinage


The Untheri shekel has less than half the gold value per weight of purer coins like the Cormyrean golden lion. Thus, even if they were to have them re-smelted, it would be tedious labour sifting the gold from the lead, silver or bronze with which it was adultered.

Hence, the characters would greatly prefer trade goods over coinage.

Any other thoughts for trade goods that the Untheri might be prepared to sell cheaply and which might be sought after elsewhere on the shores of the Inner Sea?

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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2010 :  09:30:39  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My campaign a few years ago was in Unthalass and without the Mulhorandi. These are some additional trade goods that I remember:

cattle, gold (River of Metals), iron, tin, lead and bronze ingots, flax (oil, cloth), cedar (portal to Methwood), bitumen (for waterproofing boats), ivory, salt, perfume, soap, obsidian, cylinder seals, dyes, glass trinkets
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1864 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2010 :  23:20:41  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

My campaign a few years ago was in Unthalass and without the Mulhorandi. These are some additional trade goods that I remember:

cattle, gold (River of Metals), iron, tin, lead and bronze ingots, flax (oil, cloth), cedar (portal to Methwood), bitumen (for waterproofing boats), ivory, salt, perfume, soap, obsidian, cylinder seals, dyes, glass trinkets


Very good.

How did you price bitumen, for example? Or flax oil and cloth?

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Quale
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Posted - 30 Jul 2010 :  16:40:20  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Normally, one square yard of linen/flax is about 4 gp, oil is 1 sp/lb.

Bitumen could be quite expensive, the price depends if you want Unther to have a monopoly like Mesopotamians did, its supply, or its state of refinement (e.g. used for greek fire), or is it used for boats, mortar, roads or mummification. I'd say 1 sp/lb. when sold to a local alchemist, for everything else the price really varies.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 04 Aug 2010 :  22:16:34  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Normally, one square yard of linen/flax is about 4 gp, oil is 1 sp/lb.

Bitumen could be quite expensive, the price depends if you want Unther to have a monopoly like Mesopotamians did, its supply, or its state of refinement (e.g. used for greek fire), or is it used for boats, mortar, roads or mummification. I'd say 1 sp/lb. when sold to a local alchemist, for everything else the price really varies.


Very kind of you, thank you.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

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MalariaMoon
Learned Scribe

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Posted - 17 Apr 2011 :  11:26:00  Show Profile  Visit MalariaMoon's Homepage Send MalariaMoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Icelander - this is interesting stuff as my current campaign is taking place in a small goldrush town on the River of Metals in 1352 DR. The River of Metals empties near or at Messemprar (it's difficult to be certain from the large scale map in 'Dragons of Faerun'. Deposits of gold and other precious metals can be found in its muddy waters, which presumably enter the river system from lodes in the Riders to the Sky mountains. As you've mentioned, this trade is controlled by Alaskerbanbastos, particularly in your time period, but in my campaign this wealth was easily harvested by gold panning at certain spots along the river. There could be a large number of adventurers and lone prospectors ready to risk the notice of the Bone Wyrm's draconic minions in order to take advantage of this gold, which in turn could have a small but significant impact on Messemprar's economy.

Out of interest, is breakdown of the factions in Messemprar canon or homebrew? It's really interesting, and I haven't come across it before, although I haven't read the Alabaster Staff or the Shadow Stone novels. I'm adding it to my campaign notes. You might be interested in a homebrew NPC I posted in the Valuable Villains thread (page 3); Caeloth Malphoros - Alaskerbanbastos' human emissary to the governments of the Old Empires. He might be of use in your campaign.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 17 Apr 2011 :  17:58:37  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MalariaMoon

Out of interest, is breakdown of the factions in Messemprar canon or homebrew?

It incorporates all canon that I could find, but I made up names and characters to fit into any obvious gaps.

Also, the recent events, such as a battle on the River of Metals, are events from my campaign, obviously.

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MalariaMoon
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Posted - 17 Apr 2011 :  18:20:09  Show Profile  Visit MalariaMoon's Homepage Send MalariaMoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cool stuff. I know that in Old Empires Shurupakk was dispatched to deal with the Northern Wizards. Is the outcome of that confrontation canon or one of the gaps you filled? I'd love to know more about that!
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Icelander
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Posted - 18 Apr 2011 :  00:26:34  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MalariaMoon

Cool stuff. I know that in Old Empires Shurupakk was dispatched to deal with the Northern Wizards. Is the outcome of that confrontation canon or one of the gaps you filled? I'd love to know more about that!


It's canon that there are still Northern Wizards and that Shurupakk still lives after this confrontation. Thus making it inevitable that the outcome was a draw of some sort.

Any details are probably mine.

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glitter
Acolyte

France
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Posted - 13 Jul 2011 :  12:37:17  Show Profile Send glitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Very kind of you, thank you.
Does anyone have any other ideas?



In my campaign, I use another faction, the ensi.
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0204c&L=realms-l&D=1&F=&S=&P=7968

They must have access to some very old temples with what you can imagine inside, sculptures, books or magical items.

-The black knight is invincible!
- You’re a looney.

Edited by - glitter on 21 Jul 2011 09:17:15
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MalariaMoon
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Posted - 13 Jul 2011 :  17:10:01  Show Profile  Visit MalariaMoon's Homepage Send MalariaMoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sure as sure things get complicated in Messempar. I wonder how my PCs will fair (if they ever get there!).
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
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Posted - 16 Jul 2011 :  19:53:43  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander


But what does the enterprising merchant take away from that wartorn place? What do the various factions in embattled Messemprar have to fill the holds of the ships that slip past the Mulhorandi blockade?

What else is there? What can the Untherites sell cheaply that someone else will pay a great deal of coin for?



think modern day Egypt. How many ancient relics that collectors would just LOVE are there. Now factor in that some of these items might date back to Imaskar. Antiquities would be something people would be looting and trading for essentials.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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glitter
Acolyte

France
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Posted - 28 Jul 2011 :  12:31:38  Show Profile Send glitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Now factor in that some of these items might date back to Imaskar. Antiquities would be something people would be looting and trading for essentials.


I have a hard time to imagine that the mulan slaves, now free, walking with manifestation of their gods would spend some time to find Imaskari artworks among the rubble.
but of course, we still can imagine that.

-The black knight is invincible!
- You’re a looney.
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Kno
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Posted - 20 Aug 2011 :  12:13:11  Show Profile Send Kno a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I find hard to believe they didn't keep any old devices, they were real fanatics

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 20 Aug 2011 :  14:36:35  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kno

I find hard to believe they didn't keep any old devices, they were real fanatics



It's not unreasonable to assume they did, but that those devices have since been destroyed, worn out, melted down, buried in long-forgotten caches, etc.

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Kno
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Posted - 21 Aug 2011 :  16:23:43  Show Profile Send Kno a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not even one to keep as a trophy, to parade around on the national day of the revolution?

z455t
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Icelander
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Posted - 17 Nov 2011 :  13:48:19  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by glitter

In my campaign, I use another faction, the ensi.
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0204c&L=realms-l&D=1&F=&S=&P=7968

They must have access to some very old temples with what you can imagine inside, sculptures, books or magical items.


I've introduced the ensi into my campaign, but given the extreme length of time that passed since there were last temples to these gods, I find it unlikely that the ensi have much access to treasures from them in the modern day.

For more than a thousand years, Gilgeam outlawed these gods and would have looted any temples of them that still stood.

For all that, a charismatic ensi might have relatively widespread popular support. Given that Unther has no democratic tradition and the disenfranchised common people don't exactly have much to offer in terms of wealth or power, of course, this is not very useful. Still, the Northern Wizards might throw some sops to the ensis to try to court public opinion.

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Icelander
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Posted - 17 Nov 2011 :  13:58:11  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
New developments in my campaign in Messemprar include a decisive victory over a Mulhorand expedition on the banks of the River of Metals and a concurrent naval victory over some thirty ships sent to support that force. This means that the Mulhorandi blockade is shattered for the foreseeable future and that regular traffic of Thayan, Wizard Reach and Chessentan trading craft can commence.

Of course, ship owners may still be reluctant to risk their vessels and cargo in wartorn waters and Mulhorand might employ their Sultim-based warships as commerce raiders, but given the threat from sahuagin in Sultim, the constant presence of the Thayan navy on the Alaor and the fact that galleys make very poor patrol vessels (no endurance on station), any threats to ships sailing to Messemprar ought to be fairly minor. The Purple Reign Trading Group intends to guarantee the value of any ship and cargo (up to 30,000 gp) lost to Mulhorandi naval action while sailing to Messemprar, at any rate, so that ought to assuage such fears.

The de facto government of Messemprar, the Northern Wizards, have also received 12,000 tons of fine wheat. This makes the immediate supply situation much less acute and drives down the price of food. In another month or so (after Greengrass, 1373 DR), the harvest will begin to come in. While the harvest can only feed some third of the people in and around Messemprar, it will still mean a further reduction in food prices. City morale, therefore, is way up, perhaps higher than it has been since the beginning of the war.

Making use of their newfound popularity, the Northern Wizards have publicaly announced the result of years of diplomacy. The Northern Wizards are planning to establish a Shibitu (Council of Elders) to govern Messemprar (ostensibly, but in reality it will have authority over all Free Unther). They plan to have 24 seats and take 12 of them for themselves. Three will go the military, three to the judiciary, three to leading citizens of Messemprar and three to leading religious figures.

The military posts go to General Ungred, General Horat and the highest noble among those putting their forces at the army’s disposal, Reshbel Ekurzakir Mar-Shu-Turul; sa Hay-Hasmanu.

The judiciary posts go to the chief judge and the other two of the three senior judges. In a surprise move, Dayyanu sa sarri Mirza Rim-Warad, one of the other two judges declines his appointment and proposes Ishram-al-Mamaalek, Sardaar-e Thamor, in his stead, as the council should not overlook the true and loyal nobility of old Unther. Zhentarim gold is suspected behind the move, especially as Ishram is a scion of a relatively minor branch of the old Sihrubel family there.

The three leading citizens are two merchant lords of good blood and long tenure in the city and the Hegemon of the Hegemony of Artisans, Reza Ostad.

One of the religious figures will be Shudu-Ab of Tiamat (meant to be Tiglath, but she resigned shortly before the announcement), one will be Utuhegel of Ishtar and one will be an ensi of the Old Faith.

Shurlash imagines that with 13 seats belonging to the Northern Wizards and their ally Utuhegel, they will win all votes and be able to rule, but the participation of the other factions will give an appearance of their consent. The council will have executive power and the power to appoint the civil service. The cost of the judiciary allowing it to serve as the court of last appeal, however, was deciding that reversing a decision made by them required a 2/3 majority. They also demanded that legislation and the firing or appointing of senior officials required that same majority. With these concessions won, they accepted that the Shibutu could wield the powers of a sakin temi (governor) of Messemprar.

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Icelander
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Posted - 17 Nov 2011 :  14:43:47  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shibutu of Messemprar


[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Shurlash, Defender of Messemprar (Wiz15th/ArcDev3rd (Mystra)). A man of average height and build; bald with white sideburns, with a striking aristocratic face deeply lined with experience. Shurlash exudes a tangible aura of power and authority. Capable of secrecy and even ruthless action, he is nevertheless unused to politics or the manipulation of others.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Nimrud el-Ishtar (Wiz15th). Running to fat, passions for food and lechery somewhat obvious from his leering countenance. Pessimistic by nature, but believes that one must seize pleasure when one can, as the future may well be worse.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Ubarum Bronzehand (Wiz6th/HavocMage5th/ArgentSav5th; 13th CL). Was a mild-mannered youth among the senior apprentices when the slave uprising started in 1357 DR. Now he's a hardened battlemage of thirty winters; having stood against Shurupakk the Reaver, the armies of Unther, Chessentan mercenaries, the forces of Tiamat, the Gray Ghosts of Furifax and the armies of the Pharoah. His right hand is an enchanted prosthetic of bronze, the relic of Shurupakk's rampage against the Northern Wizards, and countless other battles have lined his handsome Mulan face with scars and weary caution. Always accompanied by his blink dog, Urimi.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Khazara of Greenfields (Wiz12th/Cle2nd). Buxom woman in her forties, apple-cheeked and blond haired. Worshipper of Ishtar in her bountiful aspect and as the mistress of loving marriage. Married to a lay worshipper of Ishtar (Meskalamdug; Fig8th/DivChamp5th; handsome golden man with dark hair); now the commander of the temple guard as well as work parties of the faithful.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Tammuz the Charmed (Wiz13th). Young man in his thirties with brownish red curly hair and a boyish face. Impulsive, light-spirited and overconfident.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Enheduana of Mystra (Wiz8th/ArcDev5th (Mystra)); former apprentice and lover of Larsa. Gorgeous (Persian) slim beauty with glittering dark eyes and high cheekbones. In her early thirties.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Amata el-Ishtar (Exp2nd/Wiz10th); long-time lover of Nimrud, leader of a cult of sacred prostitutes. In her early forties, extremely long and luxurious wavy black hair, daring see-through silk robes and graceful, statuesque body. Warm hazel eyes like molten honey.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Dadanum (Exp2nd/Wiz5th/Loremaster4th). Old man more concerned with his researches than with politics or even attaining the rank of Wizard. Irascible if disturbed, but otherwise disinterested and immersed in arcane intricacies of the religious practices of the ancient Turami. Has some slight Turami blood and cuts his beard in a squarish pattern, as well as painting two circles on his forehead.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Bashaa (Wiz9th); sole surviving apprentice of Ziusudra. Young man in his thirties who looks prematurely aged by cares and a hard life, thinning black hair and a downy beard. Looked upon as a coward by his peers, but secretly burns to shed that label and avenge the inglorious death of his master to Shurupakk (while begging for mercy as a hostage). Offers to Mystra and Ishtar, but feels no strong connection to either.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Gemakaa of Ishtar (Wiz7th/Cleric3rd/MysTheur1st). Beautiful dusky lady who is a former apprentice of Nimrud; then of Khazara and Utuhegel.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor Ishme-qusu (Wiz5th/Loremas4th). A brilliant scholar who has studied under Shurlash, Larsa and even Isimud of the Enclave. Specialises in portal and transport magics. Rather small and slight man in his early forties, bald and pale, with deep-set dark eyes. Deeply conservative and distrustful of foreigners. Refuses to speak Common, but deigns to converse in any ancient tongue.

[Northern Wizards] Councilor: Shaqilat (Soc9th). Former apprentice of Asshurat the sorceress. Beautiful woman of Turami ancestry in her mid-thirties, with brown hair and eyes and a voluptuous body. Always on the watch for traitors from within, but not averse to a peace settlement that would see the citizens of Messemprar safe. Offers to both goddesses, but feels slightly more resonance with Mystra.

[Military] Councilor: General Ba’l Ungred, Sardaar-e Unthalass (Arist6th/Fig4th). Ba’l Ungred is the highest ranking military man that survived the summer campaign. He was previously commander of the Unthalass militia and reserves and thus commanded the largest group of soldier in the beaten Untheri army. He's an educated minor nobleman whose courtly manners are better than most of the high nobles, well-groomed and very literate. He's seen more than seventy winters, but his health is still good and he still has an eye for nubile maidens to be his wives, good wine and poetry. He wants to preserve the glory that was Unther and to that end he strives to keep the disparate noblemen and military officers under his command united.

[Military] Councilor: [Great Lord] Belbanda Horat Annunakizâde; Sardaar-e Messemprar (Arist5th). The third son of the previous Great Lord of Messemprar (slain by Shurlash of the Northern Wizards), this petty, vindictive man wields great power simply because of his appointment shorty before the ToT as the General of Messemprar's armies. He is fundamentally timid man and hopes that someone else will take the initiative in difficult matters. Consequently, he has nagged endlessly to Ba'l Ungred on the subject of seizing power in the city from the Northern Wizards. Horat is short and pudgy, with a smooth and fresh face that makes him look younger than his thirty years. He is cultivating a plaited beard to go with his long perfumed hair, but it is still sparse everywhere except on his neck and jawline.

[Military] Councilor: Reshbel Ekurzakir Mar-Shu-Turul; sa Hay-Hasmanu. A noble from the vicinity of Firetrees. In his forties, fat and indolent, perfumed and oiled. Gold rings in his black beard. Horrified by foreign gods and foreign customs; wishes to live as he did before the war, insulated from all the disgusting things in the world.

[Judicial] Councilor: Bel Dayyanu Tudmaratu-al-Mamaalek; sa Hay-Sapalulme. Tall, imperious man with a stony countenance dominated by a hook nose and a carefully groomed beard. Devoted to the ideal of the law, specifically the gruesome punishment of the guilty, but utterly without personal foibles. Seeks a new Unther under a new En-Lugal (God-King), who is Untheric and respects the law and traditions. Careful not to voice his personal feelings, only speaks to safeguard the law and the customs.

[Judicial] Councilor: Dayyanu sa sarri Mirza Arghisti Mar-Keret. Oily little man with long black hair and carefully groomed moustache and goatee. Started his service to Gilgeam as a judicial scribe, but rose to his current position on the strength of his agile mind and flexible morality. Has been influencing his decisions according to financial inducements and, in the name of a crony (Ur-Shulgi; a merchant of the artisan’s quarter), owns several slave enterprises, including four brothels, several pottery shops, a livery and porter concern and a street cleaning enterprise.

[Judicial] Councilor: Ishram-al-Mamaalek, sa Hay-Thamorutu, Sardaar-e Thamor (Aristo2nd/Fig10th). Ambitious scion of an established family who wants to carve out a place in any Unther that will remain, preferably a large piece. Indifferent as to how large Unther will be or how it will be ruled, except inasmuch as it will reflect on his prize. Worshipper of Bane and wants an influx of Zhentarim trade and is not averse to other trade as well. In his late forties, looks very military with his imposing height, disciplined strong body, groomed black beard and handsome lordly face.

[Religious] Councilor: Breath of the Red Ravager Shudu-Ab; Wyrm Princess of the Dark Scaly Ones; High Priestess of the Altar of Scales in Unthalass and the Secret Hoard in Messemprar (SpecPriest18th). A vicious woman of darkly regal and icy beauty, Shudu-Ab intends to use her position at the head of Tiamat’s church in Unther to the fullest. Unther has always been ruled in the name of deities and now that the Nemesis of the Gods has succeeded in overthrowing Gilgeam, it is time for the Dark Lady to rule.

[Religious] Councilor: Nin-dam Utuhegel of Ishtar (Cle6th/Wiz3rd/MysTheu5th). Middle-aged mother figure who is weary of seeing her flock starve and die for the old nobility of Unther. Wants to take any help that is offered and is secretly for a peace at any price, even concessions of independence to the Pharoah.

[Religious] Councilor: Sipu Anaepada; Ensi of the Old Faith (SpePriest11th). Very old man who radiates calm benevolence and wisdom. Spends much of his time among the common people, listening to their woes and soothing their pain. Extremely conservative, but harkens back to a past before Gilgeam’s fall from grace and thus in favour of removing some of the newer changes to Unther’s legal system. By the tenets of his faith, rejects Tiamat absolutely, and condemns Thayans and the followers of Assuran. Shaves his head and face, wears a white wraparound kilt with runes of azure (Enlil), scarlet (Girru), orange (Utu), silver (Nanna-sin) and gold (Marduk). Carries a brilliantly shined sapara (Untheric khopesh) that functions as his holy symbol. Cannot use powerful spells (4th and higher), but is exceptionally adept with many lower level ones. Is able to imbue himself with a powerful presence that makes him seem even wiser and more charismatic without casting a spell.

[Citizen] Councilor: Ea-Nasir; Resh Tamkari (head merchant) of Mylitta’s Gardens (Aristo15th). Merchant prince from an old family in Messemprar, specialising in objects of beauty, art, fine clothes perfumes, oils and delicacies. Handsome man of middle age with shoulder-length curling black hair and perfumed beard who is refined, polite and considerate. Employs several dangerous slyblades and a personal mage (Mirza Emmebaragisi; Wiz14th) who has warded his home with great cunning.

[Citizen] Councilor: Ubar Saqapurvatta; Nawab of Northwaves Chaka (Exp5th/Wiz1st/MerchPrinc5th [adjusted to +1/level of existing spellcasting class]). The eight of his name to helm this trading chaka that has historically focused on shipping to and from the Wizard Reach, Ubar retains some mannerisms and terminology from Estagund, but is more than three quarters Untheric and has never even been to the Shining South. Short, fat, darker in hue than most, clean-shaven, glittering dark eyes, effeminate. Keeps very quiet about his little magical learning, good for some little tricks that might make him harder to kill than anticipated.

[Citizen] Councilor: Reza Ostad, Hegemon of Artisans (Exp9th). Frail old man who is increasingly bewildered by the changing times in Unther. Deeply conservative in his thinking. Wishes merely to protect his people and weather the storm somehow, but has no plan for how that is to be accomplished.

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Edited by - Icelander on 18 Nov 2011 12:44:09
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MalariaMoon
Learned Scribe

324 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2011 :  11:45:29  Show Profile  Visit MalariaMoon's Homepage Send MalariaMoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Once again Icelander, thanks for sharing your incredibly detailed look at Messemprar. One of your NPCs even found his way into my Threskel campaign!
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 18 Nov 2011 :  13:43:23  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MalariaMoon

Once again Icelander, thanks for sharing your incredibly detailed look at Messemprar. One of your NPCs even found his way into my Threskel campaign!


May one inquire what NPC that was?

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MalariaMoon
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Posted - 20 Nov 2011 :  09:09:00  Show Profile  Visit MalariaMoon's Homepage Send MalariaMoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote


The PCs in my Threskel campaign spent a year as the guardians of a nascent gold rush town (called Golden Greaves) located on one of the wilder stretches of the River of Metals. As news of the town’s wealth spread, various different powers tried to exert their authority over it (geographically it existed in the untamed no-man’s land between Threskel and Unther).

One of these intrigues involved Ziyatum-saltaneh, who initially made diplomatic overtures towards Golden Greaves. These included the gift of a beautiful harem girl to the Lord of the town – a girl whose beauty was so potent (via magical assistance) that she was accepted even though it seemed obvious she was a spy. After falling in love with one of the PCs (who was himself an escaped slave of Unther) her loyalties changed, but this in turn caused a rift between the PCs and the Lord of Golden Greaves, who was quite obsessed with the slave girl.

After attempts to influence Golden Greaves through politics and intrigue (via rabble-rousers amongst Golden Greaves’s population of rough and ready prospectors) failed, Ziyatum-saltaneh sent a small army up the River of Metals with the blessing of Gilgeam (ostensibly to reclaim lost slaves, who made up a significant proportion of the town’s population). With the help of magic and some well-judged rockslides, the PCs were able to rout Ziyatum-saltaneh’s force. However, Golden Greaves was destroyed a few months later by a rampaging dragon. The campaign hasn’t made much progress beyond this point

The eventual intention is to develop Alaskerbanbastos as the main villain in the campaign. At present, my campaign is pre-Time of Troubles; Gilgeam has not fallen and Messemprar is not besieged. I noted Ziyatum-saltaneh’s connections with the Great Bone Wyrm, and his mining interests - he seemed a good fit for an off scene protagonist who could reappear (years) later in the campaign as a proxy of Alaskerbanbastos.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 20 Nov 2011 :  22:44:23  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very interesting.

Ziyatum-saltaneh hasn't appeared much in my own campaign. The PCs refused him a meeting* the last time they were in Messemprar and he didn't get a council seat. That being said, old Alasklerbanbastos is set to become very important to the city, as he offers help in the form of flights of dragons. So I have no doubt that my players will make his acquintance. So far, Alasklerbanbastos has communicated with Messemprar through Tiamat priests, but the Cult of the Dragon/Tiamat tangle means that people in Unther who worship dragons might belong to any of at least three factions... or all of them.

I put an 'orthodox' faction of Dragon Cultists in the Uthangol Mountains. These belong to the Peleveran cell and are there to convince several dragons to become dracoliches. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the Banite-dominated Mourktar cell and the Tiamat-dominated Untheri cells.

*They were besieged by supplicants, some seeking gifts of food, some seeking passage out of the city, some wanting to hire foreign mercenaries; and they had no way to know which of them were important. So they only met with those who had impressive titles that they could verify or those who had letters of introduction from someone they were already doing business with.

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Icelander
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Posted - 01 Jul 2013 :  03:38:24  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My campaign, is, as noted earlier, set in the year 1373 DR. It's now spring and the events of the Alabaster Staff have taken place, more or less as depicted in the novel*.

The actions of the PCs and their allies have also significantly improved the strategic situation for Free Unther, in that Messemprar is no longer besieged. Instead, it forms the center of an explosion of trade and economic activity, as shipping controlled or encouraged by Purple Reign** moves in incredible amounts of foreign experts, weaponry, food and a variety of goods necessary for the projects going on there.

In turn, Messemprar exports the treasures hoarded by the leaders of various factions and whatever they can capture from the Mulhorandi, but the fragile coalition of faction-leaders (led by the Northern Wizards) need a more permanent source of income soon. Before that can happen, they'll have to somehow stop the war, ideally without giving up so much of what used to be Unther that they cannot feed their own population.

Given the much improved strategic situation, the expected spring offensives of the Mulhorandi are unlikely to succeed. It is, in fact, all but impossible that they should take Messemprar this year and any sober and realistic Mulhorandi commander will realise this. On the other hand, if Sadamzar falls, the Mulhorandi will control the Methmere and what remains of Free Unther will essentially be reduced to a city-state with a strong navy, but ultimately too little hinterland to survive.

So out of the three offensives that the Mulhorandi planned, the one aimed to take Sadamzar, at least, will go on as planned. And Messemprar has no choice other than to send a relief force, even if Rasid Uhl, the governor of Sadamzar, is not a part of their fragile coalition yet and, indeed, is not acceptable to many members there.***

The relief column will be a joint effort of the Church of Tiamat, a few nobles who have rejected the Gilgeam regime, the Zhentarim and iindividuals supported by the Banites of Mourktar as well as the Great Bone Wyrm. These were the forces with enough mobility to go immediately, as well as connections in the area.

Yes, I'm aware that this will probably not go well, but that's what you get when you have fragile coalitions.

Given the events of the Alabaster Staff, Tiglath is no longer in charge. Shudu-Ab is. This changes a lot and she has brought some of the priests who were previously behind Mulhorandi lines to Messemprar with her in order to press her claim to the leadership of Free Unther.

Due to PC action, her strong right hand, Kedrak Gilbane, Lord High Marshal of the Knights of the Five-Thorned Rose, has been killed. His proposed replacement has also died of PC-related injuries, mostly due to having been a front-runner for reasons of personal prowess rather than intellectual rigour.

The Knights of the Five-Thorned Rose therefore need a new Lord High Marshal. This one will be selected by Shudu-Ab for his abilities as a general and commander, rather than personal enforcer. I expect her to have a rather reduced pool of applicants, having lost the top two from the Knights, but there must be a young and likely lad among them who can be groomed for military greatness.

I'm looking for suggestions on what kind of character I should introduce as the new candidate for Tiamat's top military commander in the field. Obviously, Shudu-Ab will have the actual prestigious title and in the years between the rise of Tiamat and the invasion of Mulhorand, she gained some experience at this sort of thing, but she's a priestess and not a military man. She needs a strong right hand, chief training officer, assistant strategist, subordinate general, etc.

The odds are very high that he'll have experience in leading Tiamat forces in Unther, either dating all the way back to the war between Tiamat and Gilgeam, or at least during the period between 1358-1371, when Unther was essentially divided between rival warlords, some of whom were fighting for Tiamat.

She'll also be looking for intelligence and leadership quality, more than personal prowess, having learned her lesson. It wouldn't hurt if he looked likely to develop into a popular hero figure to the common people, but I'm guessing if the Cult of Tiamat had anyone with great gifts in that line, they'd have used him already. Still, she'd be willing to bet on a young prospect that looked like he could maybe develop into something, rather than go with a known quantity that would be adequate from the start, but never anything more.

I'm also looking for suggestions on mid-ranking commanders in her force. I think that several bandit lords and a lot of the pirates in Untheri waters might fight under Tiamat's banner and for this relief column to Sadamzar, they are all being called together.

So I'll aim to have one pirate "admiral", a canny and politically astute corsair who has survived from Gilgeam to the current era by being simultaneously more ruthless and more cautious than his rivals. Someone who might have embraced Tiamat's teaching due to it providing benefits for someone already outside the law, but come to believe in it through long association, at least somewhat. Haven't fleshed him out and would welcome suggestions.

I also want at least three and probably more bandit lords. Ideally around six major figures, bringing more than four hundred men to the column and commanding more which haven't come down from the highlands. Some will lead mountain or highland tribes which have always been regarded as bandits by the "civilised" Untheri of the lowlands, others will lead bands united less by ethnicity than by being outcasts from society around them.

Does anyone care to propose ideas for these NPCs? I don't care much about stats, just about the "fluff" that makes them unique. Names, appearance, histories, personalities, allegiances, rivalries, goals, etc.

*The PCs were elsewhere at the time, having visited Messemprar just before and just after the novel took place.
**The trading company, mercenary company and all-around powerhouse controlled by the PCs. The founders have Sembian and Cormyrean roots; but the merchant house is headquartered in Ravens Bluff and has important bases in Impiltur (they handle a huge volume of trade through Lyrabar), in Telflamm (with close connections to the Shadowmasters), on the Pirate Isles (on the newly captured Isle of Tan), in the Vilhon Reach (Reth is their main recruiting station for mercenaries) and smaller bases spread around the Inner Sea from the Dragon Coast, throughout Sembia (with a small base in Marsember) and the Wizard Reach. They also have outposts in Thay and those are expected to grow fast, as they have a good relationship with the more sensible and mercantile elite among the Red Wizards.
***Under the Gilgeam regime, he was a mere stableboy, of despised Shaaran-descent, in the royal chariotry. He rose to the status of a junior officer for courage on the battlefield under the loyalist regime that endured in southern Unther after Gilgeam's death and in the battles after the Mulhorandi invasion, he distinguished himself and collected a strong force of loyal freedom fighters. Unfortunately, he also murdered the legitimate general of the army in taking over the remnants.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

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