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 Traditions and rules for monks of Kara-Tur
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Lex
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2008 :  02:13:23  Show Profile  Visit Lex's Homepage Send Lex a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello there

Iīm playing a Monk in 3.5, who actually lives in Faerun, but came from Kozakura in Kara-Tur. He is a follower of the Konjo school of the Way of Enlightenment.

I play him similar to a Buddhism monk from Japan.

But I have now detected that in the traditional Buddhism there are many rules a monk has/had to follow.

This rules say a Buddhism monk is not allowed to:

- eat meat

- eat anything after 12 A.M.

- work (in sense of having a job for earning money or such things)

- kill

- marry

- have sex or touch a woman in similar way

- let the hair at their heads unshaved

- drink alcohol

- have any property except of a belt, a bowl for begging, a razor, a needle, a sieve or strainer and four sets of monk clothing. (Although I think a hat and a wandering stick are missing in this list and maybe also things for praying)

It is said, all other things a monk gets, are property of his community and not his personal property. But I think this makes it difficult for a wandering monk who is wandering far away from his community and temple. (Because I fear he is not allowed to take things with him that are not his property.)

It is also said a monk is begging in the morning to get food.

It is also said Buddhism monks have to follow 227 rules(!) and saying this rules again and again to make shure they followed all of them.

It is also said Buddhism monks are very quiet, speak seldom to people, most of the time just sitting or standing around, ignoring people except of begging. (maybe begging by ringing a bell, if I remember right)

This are many rules and traditions and I think following all of them would make a role playing figure hard to play.

But it is also said some of this rules got lost in Japan in later centurys. But it is different from sect to sect and religious way of Buddhism, which rules are important for which monk. In some later traditions short hairstyles are allowed instead of shaved hair, and working on fields instead of begging. Also marrying and having children, drinking alcohol and so on. But it is also said the modern Monks of Japan who are allowed to do many things are more like priests.

I find it difficult to figure out which of the old traditons I should take for my monk of Kozakura, if any of them. I think maybe some of them but not all. But before I decide this, I wanted to ask you, how you think about it and if there are any official rules how to play a monk of Kozakura. I also wonder, if there are any traditional colors for clothing a monk from Kozakura wears.

Thank you for helping

Lex

Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2008 :  02:53:56  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
(Everything in boldface is a link to a different page, mostly Wikipedia articles.)

There are several Oriental Adventures supplements which deal with different schools of martial arts. Some of them are available (or were until recently) as free downloads from Wizards of the Coast.

Not all monks were obedient to their rules. Sagacious Lu, is a disobedient monk and eventual rebel/bandit/patriot in the Water Margin novel, which was the source for an addictive computer game called Bandit Kings of Ancient China, which has a very informative rulebook and chart of the main characters -- and which is a thousand pages or so shorter than the novel.

The Ikko-Ikki cult was an extremely dangerous revolutionary league in early modern Japan. They arose from Pure Land Buddhism.

Red Box manufactures 23mm Japanese Warrior-Monk monk figures. (D&D minis are 28mm, so they are noticeably bigger than the Red Box figures.)

Wikipedia has articles of nine Japanese warrior-monks whose biographies may be helpful to you.








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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
27041 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2008 :  03:38:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Keep in mind that while this stuff may be required for real world monks, the Realms are not the real world. So while I'd not discard all of the rules, I'd only stick with the stuff that either makes sense or that makes sense for good roleplaying.

I played a wu jen in 2E, once or twice. One of the things I liked about them was that as they progressed in levels, they had to take restrictions. I don't recall all the rules, but violating a restriction could result in the temporary loss of class abilities.

Something like that could easily be adapted for other Eastern classes, and would add to the flavor of the character.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Jul 2008 03:38:45
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2121 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2008 :  17:52:27  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, Class Chronicles: The Sublime Way gives info on how to incorporate the classes, prestige classes and nine martial disciplines from the Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords into the Realms; and Class Chronicles: Eastern Classes gives info on incorporating the samurai (Complete Warrior), shaman (Oriental Adventures), shugenja (Complete Divine), sohei (Oriental Adventures), spirit shaman (Complete Divine), and wu jen (Complete arcane) 20-level classes into the Realms. Also, it should be noted that Osse is the island continent east of Kara-Tur on the map A Scholar's View of Abier-Toril.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated September 16, 2014)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)

Edited by - Hawkins on 17 Jul 2008 17:54:56
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
11498 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2008 :  20:08:25  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Keep in mind that while this stuff may be required for real world monks, the Realms are not the real world.

QFT.

While you may look to the RW for inspiration, always bear in mind that K-T is NOT Asia.

And K-T has many non-traditionalist schools/temples for Monks. The kind you are thinking about playing sounds more like the followers of the Padhran faith (the 'western branch' of The Way), who are far more 'traditionalists' then their more eastern counterparts.

The Padhra Faith can be found throughout K-T, but is dominant in Ra-Khati, Khazari, and Tabot (although Tabot and Ra-Khati have seperate sects that are opposed to one another). This faith can also be found outside of k-T, amongst the Tuigan and in Semphar, and even Solon (until that citystate was taken-over by Ambuchar Devyam).

Believe it or not, the three Hordelands modules describe the kind of Monk you want better then any of the K-T (Island) adventures.


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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jul 2008 20:10:58
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Lex
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2008 :  21:11:05  Show Profile  Visit Lex's Homepage Send Lex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The type of monk I want to play is a monk that is wise and polite and good in material arts and prefers good and honest behavior.

I never said I want to play a monk who is the way I described in my first posting. But Iīm asking if there are any rules for a monk who follows the Way of Enlightenment in the Konjo school, if there are any rules he has to follow. If there is something written down about or what you think should be. Because I want to make it right or at least know how it would be right. I think it would be strange if he would behave like a samurai or like any normal people. Maybe he is not allowed to lie, like the Buddhism monks are not allowed to lie. But maybe thatīs not the only thing he isnt allowed to do.

I think some rules of his behaviour are simmilar to the rules for a follower of the Path of Enlightenment in Shou-Lung, like they are written down in the book. But maybe this are not the only things.

I think itīs important to play a monk in a special way that makes shure he has to show a special behaviour. Itīs a similar thing for clerics or paladins or some prestige classes. They show the identity of their class and of the culture of their homeland. The same thing I want to do also, but not in extreme. For example playing a monk who is not allowed to kill whould be a crazy thing for adventure role play.

Edited by - Lex on 18 Jul 2008 00:40:38
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2008 :  01:36:40  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lex, it may be best to ask that question of Ed or of a writer who has concentrated on the East.





I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Lex
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2008 :  01:48:40  Show Profile  Visit Lex's Homepage Send Lex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why should one of the official people talk to me? I think they have better thinks to do...
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2008 :  01:49:49  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lex

Why should one of the official people talk to me? I think they have better thinks to do...



Ed likes talking to fans. Go visit his thread.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe

USA
285 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2008 :  03:02:00  Show Profile  Visit monknwildcat's Homepage Send monknwildcat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, Lex. Most of the author/designer types with threads here are available for questions and comments. Pretty awesome, no?

Speaking of awesome? The days of KOEI strategy (not first-person shooter) games like Genghis Khan, Bandit Kings of Ancient China, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and Nobanaga's Ambition. Pure gold! *sigh* Good times!

BTW, Lex, props for wanting to keep your RP authentic!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
11498 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2008 :  01:03:05  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahhh... Romance of the three Kingdoms... I remember that little gem.

Like I said, the MOST stuff about eastern Monks and the Path you'll find will be in the first Hordelands module, NOT in the Kara-Tur material. You'll find lists of books, and 'wise sayings', and all sorts of taboos (which is what you are looking for).


The World of Ark - Roleplay in the Age of Legends!
Red Aegis - One of the most innovative RPG concept in years!

"Maps I'll find for you both old and rare. Maps will I seek for you of lands both dark and fair."


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Lex
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2008 :  11:41:58  Show Profile  Visit Lex's Homepage Send Lex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That sounds interesting. Where can I find the first Hordelands module?
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2121 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2008 :  16:49:08  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lex

That sounds interesting. Where can I find the first Hordelands module?
You can download it for free from the WotC website here. Or are Hordelands and The Horde separate products? I am not very familiar with 2e supplements.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated September 16, 2014)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
11498 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2008 :  20:50:48  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm an idiot - I forgot to tell you the name of the exact module I was talking about - its Storm Riders. I don't think you can download it for free anywhere - I got it for $4 from paizo (and it was worth it).

There is very little about the Padhran faith (the western 'Path') in The Horde boxed set.

As to HtDM - When I say The Horde, I am talking specifically about the boxed campaign set, when I say the Hordelands, I am speaking about the geographic area and any canon material associated with it. Ergo, The Horde is just one (main) product in the Hordelands line.

Sorry for the confusion.

EDIT: Just checked - although Storm Riders does have some information, you're better off with the second part of the series, which actually has temples listed and what not and far more info - it's Black Courser


The World of Ark - Roleplay in the Age of Legends!
Red Aegis - One of the most innovative RPG concept in years!

"Maps I'll find for you both old and rare. Maps will I seek for you of lands both dark and fair."



Edited by - Markustay on 01 Aug 2008 20:53:59
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Lex
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2008 :  21:24:28  Show Profile  Visit Lex's Homepage Send Lex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the link, that helps.

I didnīt even know they have a Dalai Lama. Strange.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
11498 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2008 :  21:49:51  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL - they have two - one in Ra-Khati and one in Tabot.


The World of Ark - Roleplay in the Age of Legends!
Red Aegis - One of the most innovative RPG concept in years!

"Maps I'll find for you both old and rare. Maps will I seek for you of lands both dark and fair."


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Lex
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2008 :  22:20:54  Show Profile  Visit Lex's Homepage Send Lex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never heared about a country called Ra-Khati, but Iīve read about Tabot.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
11498 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2008 :  02:08:21  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All three of the Hordelands adventures revolve around Ra-Khati.

You can see the country here, just below Kazari, to the east of Semphar.

Thats just a WIP, BTW, the finished version is nearly complete.

There is also a bit about Ra-Khati in the GHotR, centering around the villain Tan Chin, from Solon.


The World of Ark - Roleplay in the Age of Legends!
Red Aegis - One of the most innovative RPG concept in years!

"Maps I'll find for you both old and rare. Maps will I seek for you of lands both dark and fair."


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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe

USA
285 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2008 :  04:00:32  Show Profile  Visit monknwildcat's Homepage Send monknwildcat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lex, if you're serious about the nonviolence aspect of monks, you might work towards the Apostle of Peace PrC from the Book of Exalted Deeds. I cannot vouch for its viability in regular game play, but it's definitely geared towards introspection and nonviolence.
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