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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  02:42:52  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm on the fence between the Sundering and the Draco-Rage spells. Love High Magic, although it does tend to get a wee bit destructive. I noticed, however, that no one mentioned the Descent. I'd actually say that one tops the list. Create an ENTIRE new region of lands UNDER Faerun, AND drew an entire race to it?! (AND altered their form and abilities, to boot.) That takes some definite power. Also, since it was cast by pretty much EVERY elven priest AT THE SAME TIME, I'd say the logistics alone should put it at the top of the list. My only real beef is that it was reversed (well, partially) by only SEVEN mages (and not even High Mages) using a Kirra.....

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  02:57:28  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

Ah, yes, you're right dennis, that place was a write-off. I sort of thought of it being the consequence of (Shar's) divine manifestation more than being caused by some clumsy mortal's spell/ritual. I suppose the definition blurs when you consider Szass was planning on expending (some of Bane's) divine power to work his own magic.

I found a little bit of intelligent chatter here about Shadowstorm stuff.



I think they're equally great. They're cast by mortals but needed (or appeared to have needed) some divine power to come to fruition, and they're both for the same first purpose: annihilate the world. Though they very much vary in the second one: Shar wanted to drown everything to oblivion, while Tam wanted to create a new, 'better' world.

Every beginning has an end.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6684 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  03:00:40  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry ... I'm not sure I know what the "Descent" was. It involves Lolth? Which books, Alystra?

[/Ayrik]
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  03:16:08  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Descent is the (Divine/High Magic) ritual that was used to change and banish the drow at the end of the Crown Wars. Was mentioned in Evermeet and the reverse was performed in the last book of the Lady Penitant trilogy. Supposedly, it created the fearz'ress effects that opened up the Underdark and "drew" the newly changed drow into it.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31518 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  03:28:20  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Descent did not create the Underdark. Some of the Underdark caverns and tunnels were naturally occuring, and many were created as yet another inadvertent side effect of the Sundering.

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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  03:45:04  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah. thank you for clearing that up, Wooly. I knew that parts of it already existed, but I've never been totally clear on how the rest came about- too many conflicting vies on that. Decent, or Sundering? Meh, six of one, half-dozen of the other. But The faerz'ress effect was part of it, I know.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  04:26:37  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For a spell, "The Descent" sounds intriguing. Huge and ominous...

Every beginning has an end.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6684 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  05:50:49  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Descent does sound rather exciting. It applies only to Drow on Toril or also on Abier and other worlds?

[/Ayrik]
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2010 :  06:07:39  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It seems to have been a pan-world effect, meaning that it affected the "dark elves" of ALL worlds- at least according to the lore from my brands-spanking-new, right out of the package copy of Complete Book of Elves (2nd ed book). Well, not "new", but it's in almost new condition, and So, Correllon and company seem to have just done an across the board ban on all dark elves from the surface of all worlds where elves live.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
716 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2010 :  00:17:23  Show Profile  Visit Razz's Homepage  Send Razz an AOL message Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hmmm. Well said, Erik!
Eol, you missed all the really big spells (the terraforming and "racial creation from scratch" ones). Not to mention the planetary steering spell.
love,
THO



Woah, when did that last one happen?
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6684 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2010 :  00:32:57  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Back in the old days. Creator races, Nether Scrolls, that sorta stuff. I'm not sure if creation myth genesis should properly be called a "spell".

[/Ayrik]
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  01:19:43  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm kinda torn between Imaskar Wards and Netheril's Mythallars. Both are the first and only in history. While I am always partial to everything Netherese, I must admit the godswall is really incredible. I think the Netherese archwizards could have raised the same had they had the need for it. However, the fact that they didn't (which maybe means they couldn't) and that the Imaskari did, says a lot.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  03:28:53  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This thread makes me now re-think Karsus' spell - it was actually very much like what Doctor Doom did when he stole Galactus' power in Secret Wars (basically, he diverted the energy Galactus receives from his ship into himself).

Ergo, Karsus did not kill Mystryl (it even says she sacrificed herself) - what he did was turn her into a power-terminal. Like plugging an extension cord into another extension cord (and by sacrificing herself, she severed the connection she had to the True source, rendering Karsus' patch-job inert.)

Its like what happens when you plug a string of Christmas lights into another string of Christmas lights - if the fuse in the first set goes, everything past that in the circuit also stops receiving power.

All he really did was divert the power flowing into her into himself. That was like plugging a cellphone into a 440 power outlet (and yes, they have those - they are used in commercial applications). No wonder he 'fried'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Dec 2010 03:30:35
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  03:33:46  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's an interesting theory, MT. Though, I'd like to think he did succeed in absorbing her divinity. After all, he deserved at least that.

Every beginning has an end.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6684 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  03:33:55  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If Karsus zorched out like a blown fuse then why did Mystryl stagger, the Weave fail, and all of Netheril fall down?

[/Ayrik]
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  03:55:37  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"....We all fall down!" Maybe she caught the (Spell)Plague?!

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  03:58:13  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting possibility. But wouldn't that discredit Shar and Cyric's efforts?

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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  07:56:19  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does anybody know if Karsus spell used exclusively the shadow Weave?
Maybe his spell used only it and inadvertantly caused the split between
the two? Giving Mystryl enough time to shut off the power (secondary power breaker)
and remake herself?

Do we know if the Weave was whole or split (Weave/Shadow) before Karsus's folly?
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6684 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  08:35:42  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm personally fairly confident that no Shadow Weave was involved at all; it was a pure Weave spell. The main reason I say this is that Netheril describes the arcanist who discovered and first experimented with shadow magics (not long before the fall of Netheril) and established a small school to train shadowmages (which didn't train many, since shadow magic was viewed as an esoteric curiosity by "proper" arcanists) ... but the details of Karsus's life and magical training are fairly complete and certainly never mention him having anything to do with this shadowmage or his school or learning or casting or researching or even having any interest in shadow magic (it is possible, though the context of the writing suggests to me something of that sort would be explicitly mentioned). He was a master of Weave magics and seized the Weave itself from the goddess Mystryl (who, incidentally, never controlled what later became known as Shar's Shadow Weave).

In fact, I believe this first shadowmage, the arcanist unoriginally named Lord Shadow (or perhaps Telamont Tanthul?), transferred his floating city of Thultanthar to the Plane of Shadow (at least a day before Karsus cast his Avatar spell); this city returned to the Realms in 1372DR, bringing the Shadovar and Shadow Weave with it. Note that Mystra, the Weave, and even what's left of Karsus were apparently largely unaffected by the reintroduction of the Shadow Weave. (Some of the details about Shade are described in this scroll from Alaundo's library.)

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Dec 2010 08:45:32
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2010 :  19:56:08  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

In fact, I believe this first shadowmage, the arcanist unoriginally named Lord Shadow (or perhaps Telamont Tanthul?), transferred his floating city of Thultanthar to the Plane of Shadow...



Yes, Telamont Tanthul is Lord Shadow. He revealed that before he issued the command to exterminate the Zhents.

Every beginning has an end.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6684 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2010 :  21:52:48  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooh ... I didn't know it was tacitly stated in canon. I'd always thought it was deliberately left unsaid.

Question - Thanthul, and every other mage in Thultanthar, clearly started off as Netherese arcanists. Did they adopt Shar's Shadow Weave immediately or continue to function as arcanists for some times (years? centuries?) in the Plane of Shadow? Did the collapse of Mystryl's Weave reach into this plane?

[/Ayrik]
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Tamsar
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
137 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2010 :  15:44:35  Show Profile Send Tamsar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Greatest Spell in the realms? It's easy and your all wrong. It's Charm Person, cast on me by the 1st edition Grey Box. You've all been hit by and failed your saving throws vs spells. It might not have been the grey box, but it was an FR product of some sort, else why are you all still here :D

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2010 :  08:34:32  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

Question - Thanthul, and every other mage in Thultanthar, clearly started off as Netherese arcanists. Did they adopt Shar's Shadow Weave immediately or continue to function as arcanists for some times (years? centuries?) in the Plane of Shadow? Did the collapse of Mystryl's Weave reach into this plane?



I think it was gradual. A decade at least. Not all arcanists are sorcerers, like Galaeron, who could grasp the intricacies of SW spell-casting.

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Sandro
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
266 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2010 :  08:44:09  Show Profile  Click to see Sandro's MSN Messenger address Send Sandro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tamsar

The Greatest Spell in the realms? It's easy and your all wrong. It's Charm Person, cast on me by the 1st edition Grey Box. You've all been hit by and failed your saving throws vs spells. It might not have been the grey box, but it was an FR product of some sort, else why are you all still here :D


Fellas, I think we have a winner.

"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..."
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2010 :  06:45:45  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has the spell that blocks (for a certain span of time) all portals in existence already been devised? (Maybe by Larloch himself?)

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