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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  18:05:56  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. Ed was offline for the better part of a day (an electrical storm fried an aging iMac power supply, and he was too busy with other things to swap the hard drive out into ANOTHER aging iMac, so as to get all his Net ISP settings back), but he's surfaced now, just in time to answer Zanan's query:


Spells are written in an everchanging "pidgin" language derived from Auld Wyrm/Auld Wyrmish (sometimes called "Auld High Wyrmish" or "Old Draconic"), words augmented by runes/sigils that carry their own magical charges AND have a meaning in an incantation, akin to modern real-world picto-symbols for access, washrooms, this or that banned, et al (though they usually mean something like "that phrase [of the incantation, just spoken] is validated and empowered thus" or "empowered and comined with [the next phrase of the incantation") which is why "read magic" was a different spell than "comprehend languages."
An incantation is "read" by enunciating the words of the incantation, and visualizing (or touching) each rune/sigil AS the name of the rune/sigil is uttered, as they occur in the written spell (which releases their "trigger" magic to affect ("steer and shape") the building power of the natural forces of the world that is being raised and combined by the incantation into an eventual effect.
The language of the incantation (not counting these rune/sigil names) consists of verbs and articles mainly of elder draconic origin, plus a vocabulary of nouns (and a few verbs and articles) added by many workers-in-magic down the years. Some of these added words are elvish, some are human, and a very few (gems, mainly) are dwarven or from the gnome tongue. This language, like all languages, changes over time, as many new words are added, a few are forgotten, and a few fall out of favour. Many of the newer words are "nonsense" words coined by individual human mages, that get taken up and used by others; if someone used to wielding the Art ("arcane magic spellcaster") reads a spell scroll or written spell without actually casting it, the meanings of the words are conveyed faintly to them, unfolding in their brains (which is how someone can trigger not just explosive runes, but a harmful or beneficial glyph).
The point is that the spell CRAFTER (not caster, if they are different beings) must know/feel/be able to visualize what each word represents, be it a thing, a force, a transformation, or a desired result (for instance, the incantation phrase "aumma drood hethtarl [barrander] khehk'tal" literally means: ruby (the gem), melt it, to produce only a red vapor and heat, [name of rune, that means: applying the flesh-affecting ability this derived chemical possesses, to all of the energies of the building spell], unchanged in effects). So it's quite possible for a drow caster to use drow words in an incantation, or a dwarf to replace some words with dwarven runes (different from the "power runes"/sigils of the spell), or any spellcaster to use a family or personal nonsense word that THEY know the meaning of, when writing down spells.
So the answer is: there's no one "language of magic," but there's a jargon for incanting that's perhaps 40 percent nonsense words ("nonsense" to non-workers-in-magic, as in: invented, not part of any merely spoken language), 30 percent human, 12 percent elder draconic, 8 percent elven (various dialects, usually old word forms), and 10 percent drawn from all other tongues.
A speaker of any of these tongues who does not have the gift of handling the Art could "sort of" understand "their" words in an incantation, but only partially (for instance, an old drow word for "violent fall" of a stalactite [the equivalent of "crash down on whatever's below"] might be used in an incantation to mean "dash down" [that is, I want this my spell to violently and damagingly smash something down on what's below]; the meaning is similar but not identical, and could be misunderstood out of context).
In the "good old days," game designers actually sat down (often over drinks), and discussed all of this, so we'd be on the same page when writing, even though the early publishing codes prevented anything really specific being printed about "casting spells/working witchcraft." This has ALWAYS been "how it's worked in the Realms," with Ruathlek being an illusionist's "code" version of wizards' magical lingo, and I got TSR staff designers to agree to this back in 1986, but . . . personnel change, companies change, agreements get forgotten and new people never even know they exist, and so on . . .
Work for you? Post right back if you have more questions, and I'll be happy to talk this through.


So saith Ed. Who DOES think about all of this stuff, folks. Truly.
love to all,
THO
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe

147 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  20:19:33  Show Profile  Visit GoCeraf's Homepage Send GoCeraf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


Spells are written in an everchanging "pidgin" language derived from Auld Wyrm/Auld Wyrmish (sometimes called "Auld High Wyrmish" or "Old Draconic"), words augmented by runes/sigils that carry their own magical charges AND have a meaning in an incantation, akin to modern real-world picto-symbols for access, washrooms, this or that banned, et al (though they usually mean something like "that phrase [of the incantation, just spoken] is validated and empowered thus" or "empowered and comined with [the next phrase of the incantation") which is why "read magic" was a different spell than "comprehend languages."



Would this Old Draconic happen to be the same language as Aragrakh, Old High Wyrm?

Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  20:31:00  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Well met!

So that we are all on the same page ... er ... leaf, would Ed please describe for us the language of the Nether Scrolls, which Serpent Kingdoms informs us were written by the Sarrukh, and which PCs may find by playing through the 2007 Anauroch adventure?




I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  20:45:42  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Well met!

So that we are all on the same page ... er ... leaf, would Ed please describe for us the language of the Nether Scrolls, which Serpent Kingdoms informs us were written by the Sarrukh, and which PCs may find by playing through the 2007 Anauroch adventure?







'Find' is such a loosely described term in Anauroch.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29795 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  21:23:20  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
..And I find myself with more questions, so soon after my last batch! Hopefully, at least one of these will be quick, and/or the lovely Lady Hooded One can field it herself.

Today, I was sitting my car, waiting for my wife to come out of the store with cat food. I was flipping thru Volo's Guide to Waterdeep, a copy of which is in my car for exactly those contingencies (plus, I had multiple copies from trying to get one that wasn't in sad shape). Two things I read jumped out at me...

On page 108, in the entry for the Bowels of the Earth tavern, is this line:
quote:
The windows are covered with stout wooden shutters, barred from within, because they long ago lost all their glass and screens.


I know glass has been discussed before, but screen? How widespread is the use of screen in the windows of the Realms? How much does it cost? Where is it made, and from what materials?

The other question -- hopefully a much easier one! -- is about the Crawling Spider. It says on page 21 that the waitresses "wear black bodysuits and masks to make them look like drow." In Elfsong, Elaine adds on page 218 that they wear wigs, and that the masks have pointed ears. Elaith recognizes the "tiny red mouth" of one particular waitress on page 219.

But one detail that isn't given is how much the masks cover (conversely, the masks worn by the ladies of the Moonstone Mask in Neverwinter are explicitly described as half-masks). The illustration on page 22 of Volo's Guide to Waterdeep shows a half-mask, but nowhere in the description of the Crawling Spider is that confirmed or refuted. So, are they half-masks, full masks, domino masks, what?

And have you any adventures in the place to share, my Lady?

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  21:27:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, all. This latest, from the e-pen of Ed:


"Old Draconic" is the purely written form of Aragrakh, Old High Wyrm (a.k.a. Auld Wyrmish, and several other close-variant names), which is a language of words, fricatives, and gestures.
The Nether Scrolls were written in the simplified trading-tongue of the Sarrukh, which contains a smattering of what became Common, and quite a bit of written dragon speech (that same Old Draconic). Which means to a human of "now" [either 1300s or 1400s DR] in the Realms, the Scrolls will SEEM like gibberish, but be perfectly readable (e.g. if English is your mother tongue, the following string of words will be meaningless to you, but you'll be able to read them aloud with no problems: "lat maraga torl looba doo"). However, AS a Common Tongue speaker of the 'modern' Realms reads the Nether Scrolls aloud, enunciating each of those gibberish words imparts mental pictures and little factoids of knowledge in the reader's mind (NOT also in a listener's mind, if the reading is aloud), so the Nether Scrolls impart meaning (or, in certain cases, overwhelm minds and cause insanity, so let thy PCs be warned :} ).


So saith Ed, creator of the Realms and Master of its Linguistics.
love to all,
THO
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe

147 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  21:32:52  Show Profile  Visit GoCeraf's Homepage Send GoCeraf a Private Message
Coolio, thank you.

If Aragrakh used that as the written form, then does it stand to reason that there were other languages that used the same written alphabet, in much the same way that many modern languages in Faerun use the Draconic alphabet?

Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  22:14:06  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Whew! Lightning-fast responses from Ed! Here's the latest:

Yes, it's probable that other races/cultures of the time (some of the giant races, or the titans, for instance) would also have used the then-current written form of the dragon tongue (it's changed over time, since, hence the use of "Old/Auld" and "High" in the names sages of "today" give it). Note that the tongue generally translated fricatives into punctuation, and gestures into adverbs, in attempts to preserve their meanings.

Wooly, the masks worn are full masks; half-masks are worn OVER these masks for some costumes, to create an effect (usually alluring [the same way modern real-world folk might hint at a "French Maid look" or "a pirate with eyepatch"], but sometimes just "matching color trim" for the upper part of the body or even to suggest another race).

Also: screens are rarely found in the Realms, are fiddly and therefore expensive in some markets, but aren't expensive everywhere. What you must dash from your mind is any impression of fine mesh. "Screens" for windows in the Realms consist of wooden frame (like a picture frame) after wooden frame, stacked up together and fastened together, each holding a large, crude latticework of wires. These wires are woven (like an older badminton racket) through each other, not welded together at their crossing-points), and are set into the frames (stretched around tiny "iron thorn" nails, actually) at odd angles, so one frame will be horizontal/vertical, the next diagonal, and the rest at various "slant" angles. Fastened together, they make up a fairly fine grid that prevents the passage of birds, mice, snakes, rats, and large flying insects, but not worms, grubs, small insects, creeping bugs, and the like. So they can be used to "let air in," but not to sieve flour.
This makes window screens thick and heavy casements (often held up with props to the ground or diagonal to "stops" on the wall if on upper storeys), not thin, light coverings.


So saith Ed, loremaster of the Realms. He adds that the later Volo's books were edited by divers hands, and he never saw galleys or bluelines between rought draft turnover and publication, so the details of how some lore was expressed is less than ideal in some cases.
love to all,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29795 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2008 :  23:05:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Thanks for the very prompt responses!

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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2008 :  11:48:00  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message
I'd like to echo Wooly. Thanks a lot for the quick reply/-ies!

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2008 :  20:51:52  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Well met!

As usual, an answer generates another question (or three): what sort of windows and window treatments would exist in the guest rooms and common rooms of inns and taverns in various parts of Toril? (The PCs in my campaign are presently in a slightly above-average inn in Mulsantir, Rashemen.) Would a horn or glass-paned window in an inn's guest room actually open, and if so, would it open up and down or have two halves which swing apart in the middle? How large would the window(s) be in the typical inn guest rooms of various qualities of inns? I'm less concerned about big, rich cities than in the sorts of semi-rural places or small towns where PCs actually travel while adventuring -- perhaps too influenced by Hollywood Westerns, in most of the games I have played the assumption has usually been that the windows were glass, could be opened to allow for escapes (or for the entry of thieves and assassins and vampires), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, bu what's the straight dope?

Regards,
Jamallo Kreen, Friend of Religion, who has always thought that the Defenestration of Prague was a rather drastic surgical technique from Bohemia









I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.


Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 28 Oct 2008 21:01:29
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  13:51:05  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, everyone. I bring Ed's reply to Jamllo Kreen's question, just above:


Well, inns vary widely, but if one wanted to derive a "usual," in any inn north of Turmish, from Rashemen west to the Sword Coast, a typical upper-floor guestroom window would be as follows:
Large square or rectangular hole in wall (yes, large enough to clamber through. Said hole has two VERY stouts sets of wooden shutters, without (intentional) gaps or chinks and made to withstand howling blizzard winds. One set is on the outside, is kept closed all winter, and is often "fastened open" (stout hook and eye catches) the rest of the year.
The second set of shutters is on the inside wall, and can sometimes be barred shut. These, too, are usually fastened open most of the time. During intense cold or wet, they are sometimes covered with an old woolen blanket before being shut, to try to keep the room warm.
In between these shutters is the window-frame and window. Which is usually divided into two sub-windows: a narrow horizontal or vertical wooden grille assembly (like a real-world "jalousie") of linked "plates" or "fins" or "paddles," all hinged at their bases and connected across their leading edges with a single rod or bar, so that hand-moving this bar can simultaneously flip them all open, closed, or at some angle between. These assemblies are seldom wider than a foot.
The rest of the window is the "see out of it" panel, which is rarely, save in the most expensive inns, a single pane of glass or mica (mica of course lets light in and out, but is lousy for trying to see through). Instead, it usually consists of a "diamond" lattice of frames with glass in them (because, with heavy puttying, this shape [known from our real-world "Tudor" buildings, for example] permits small and badly-finished pieces of glass to serve in a window, has good supportive bonding edges, and glass can easily be molded, when made, into more or less diamond-shaped, small panes). Replacement (or covering over) in case of breakage is much easier than with a larger pane, too.
Most such panels are fixed, but some are hinged and can be thrust or, yes, cranked open to allow bodies, contraband, bird-nest-attacking poles, and the like through.
So there you are. The typical inn window.


So saith Ed. Who must dream in Technicolor.R
love to all,
THO
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe

USA
509 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  14:53:12  Show Profile  Visit RodOdom's Homepage Send RodOdom a Private Message
Wow, Ed must be on one of his slow work days (two dozen simultaneous projects instead of three.)
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arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
313 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  17:08:07  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message
I wonder if Ed could please tell us what are the names of some of the features, towns and cities of Laerkrond?
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  18:10:56  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
THO, you mentioned recent computer troubles for Ed. I'm sure he has to use computers to write novels and game lore, these days, but does he use computers in any way in PLAYING in his/your shared Realms campaign? I'm thinking not, but I'm curious . . .
BB
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  18:12:54  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
Dear Ed and THO,
Is a new orc horde likely in the post-Spellplague Realms? Or did all of the events of that major change also affect the cycle that caused horde after horde to arise?
Thanks.
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe

242 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  18:17:02  Show Profile  Visit Malcolm's Homepage Send Malcolm a Private Message
Dear Ed and Lady THO,
I recall Ed mentioning his "Ghost Pipes" spell being used for musical training/practise/scales, somewhere and somewhen. Are other magical means used to "store" tunes for teaching purposes?
Thanks!
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  18:42:33  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Hello All,

Ed how did you play teleportations gone bad, did you actually have teleporters arrive within objects, what happened to them, how are they freed and how did you adjudicate it mechanics-wise to players who were victims or viewing such a thing?
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  19:08:59  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

A little bird (no, not Ed; he's anything but "little;" this particular bird is American, and dwells very near a seacoast) has told me there will soon be a major announcement regarding the Realms. Scribes, keep eyes peeled . . .
love to all,
THO


So, has the announcement been made? I haven't seen anything on the Wizards site that would constitute being major.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
348 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  19:38:14  Show Profile  Visit Na-Gang's Homepage Send Na-Gang a Private Message
My Lord Ed of the Greenwood, I have some questions about the Malaugrym.

They have been described many times as "perfect shapechangers" but are they 'perfect' enough to reproduce with other races that they shapechange into? In modern scientific parlance do they become the creature down to the DNA, do sexual organs and such function as the assumed form's would? Can a Malaugrym in the form of an elven male mate with an elven female? What would the offspring of such a union be? Would the offspring be elven? Malaugrym? Something else? If the Malaugrym were once human, can they mate with humans if not with elves (or other races)?

I think that's actually one question asked lots of different ways, but I'd be very interested in your answer(s)!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2008 :  23:09:28  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
While you're waiting for Ed's reply Na-Gang, I'd suggest you read his "Shadow of the Avatar" trilogy for more on the malaugrym, as well as some of his past replies here at Candlekeep as well.

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2008 :  00:20:30  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Ashe, my "Deep Source" says: not yet.
Reason for the delay: unknown.
I'm watching eagerly, too . . .
love,
THO
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2008 :  00:49:23  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by createvmind

Ed how did you play teleportations gone bad, did you actually have teleporters arrive within objects,

Well we know that the Company of Crazed Venturers teleported into the bar in the Inn of the Dripping Dagger closely followed by some explosive critters whilst fleeing the Dungeon of the Crypt and that was from a wish , so Beshaba only knows how devious Ed was when it was a normal teleport gone wrong

Cheers

Damian
who has a feeling that fires and frying pans might get mentioned.......

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005

Edited by - crazedventurers on 30 Oct 2008 00:50:13
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe

Canada
434 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2008 :  15:34:00  Show Profile  Visit Afetbinttuzani's Homepage Send Afetbinttuzani a Private Message
Well met, Ed (and THO)

I would like some advice on handling an encounter with a Dark Tentacles in my 2E campaign.

I have asked for help on this question in the Running the Realms scroll but to no avail. It was suggested to me that since you created--and no doubt DMed--this creature, you would be able to help.

I'm scaling up the tunnels under the Twisted Tower in Shadowdale (FRCS 2E) for a group of 6 level 4-5 PCs and I'm thinking of replacing the Aballin in room 4D with a Dark Tentacles.

As you know, this creature has a potential 36 attacks per round. Obviously, making 36 attack rolls would be very time consuming and make for difficult accounting. How, in terms of die roll mechanics, have you handled encounters with this creature?

Finally, has this creature appeared in any of your FR fiction?

Afet bint Tuzanķ

"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2008 :  21:07:43  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi, all. This latest, from the e-pen of Ed:

...

Which means to a human of "now" [either 1300s or 1400s DR] in the Realms, the Scrolls will SEEM like gibberish, but be perfectly readable (e.g. if English is your mother tongue, the following string of words will be meaningless to you, but you'll be able to read them aloud with no problems: "lat maraga torl looba doo").

...

So saith Ed, creator of the Realms and Master of its Linguistics.
love to all,
THO



Is that the Torilian equivalent of GORT KLAATU BARADA NIKTO?


Ahem. Many thanks, my Lady, to you and the Master for the window lore. I hope that it will delight my players.





I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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