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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:27:21  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Great books, those. Of the "slash, hack, and more slash" variety. Not great literature, but great reads. Loved 'em; have read the first one three (and, bits of it, four) times now.
BB
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:36:00  Show Profile  Visit Broken Helm's Homepage Send Broken Helm a Private Message
I agree, Blueblade. Fun reads.
In the first book, Ed's words at the back suggest at least some of the Underdark-like setting of these two books was originally intended to be the Underdark of the Realms. The two rival religions of the dark elves are very interesting; does Ed have more to share, in later novels or perhaps, as it pertains to the Realms, here in this thread? (Please?)
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3532 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  19:53:30  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30340 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  20:21:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?



I'm sure that more than a little of it is the simple fact that El just pops in, does his "meddling", and pops back out again. He's playing without permission on Vangey's turf, and has no doubt interfered with a plan or two of Vangey's.

It prolly also makes Vangerdahast feel inferior, since an outsider so obviously feels free to wander in and play his own games -- and Vangey can't do jack about it.

Also, Vangey likes to know everything that's going on. Elminster is a wild card, as far as Vangey is concerned -- and he doesn't like wild cards. And Elminster has prolly dealt with more than one threat that Vangey didn't know about, which isn't going to make a control freak feel good about the job he's doing.

And this part is pure speculation... But Vangey may also be jealous of Elminster. El is more powerful, has a lot more irons in the fire, knows more, and -- perhaps the biggest thing of all -- has a personal relationship with Mystra. And he juggles all that just as readily, if not more so, than Vangey does with the myriad plots and conspiracies in just Cormyr.

Of course, all of this might just be additional reasoning, on top of something else. So I'm going to be looking forward to Ed's answer, too. I've wondered about that grudge more than once, myself.

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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3074 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  21:05:29  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
Wasn't Vangey an apprentice of El's waaaaaay back in the day as well?

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  23:40:19  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message
Yup yup and I was going to mention that but I didn't get around to it before you did. :)

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Wasn't Vangey an apprentice of El's waaaaaay back in the day as well?


For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14397 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  23:55:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Yes he was... and El probably wrapped his knuckles with a yardstick a time or two.

And to back-up what Wooly just said, there is a scene in a novel - I can't remember which nor find it ATM - wherein we see just how much pull Elminster has, and how he is able to 'pull rank' on Vangy within Cormyr itself. The scene is where Vangerdehast goes to arrest a noble for non-payment of taxes, and Elminster appears, pays the debt, and tells Vangy to "be on his way".

Now, wouldn't that just piss you off no end, if you thought you were the Mage-supreme of the nation that occurred in?

Not sure if that was in Elmisntster in Hell - I'm trying to find it now, and can't, but there are a couple of other scenes in there wherein El 'shows up' Vangerdehast again and again. Its hard for someone with his ego to accept feeling so inadequate in El's presence.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Oct 2008 23:57:25
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2008 :  00:43:22  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?



I'm sure that more than a little of it is the simple fact that El just pops in, does his "meddling", and pops back out again. He's playing without permission on Vangey's turf, and has no doubt interfered with a plan or two of Vangey's.

It prolly also makes Vangerdahast feel inferior, since an outsider so obviously feels free to wander in and play his own games -- and Vangey can't do jack about it.

Also, Vangey likes to know everything that's going on. Elminster is a wild card, as far as Vangey is concerned -- and he doesn't like wild cards. And Elminster has prolly dealt with more than one threat that Vangey didn't know about, which isn't going to make a control freak feel good about the job he's doing.

And this part is pure speculation... But Vangey may also be jealous of Elminster. El is more powerful, has a lot more irons in the fire, knows more, and -- perhaps the biggest thing of all -- has a personal relationship with Mystra. And he juggles all that just as readily, if not more so, than Vangey does with the myriad plots and conspiracies in just Cormyr.

Of course, all of this might just be additional reasoning, on top of something else. So I'm going to be looking forward to Ed's answer, too. I've wondered about that grudge more than once, myself.

Actually, Ed already answered this somewhat with a reply from May '04:-

"May 16, 2004: Hail, fellow scribes! Doth the wind blow fair for thee?

Yes, 'tis I, The Hooded One, with VERY fresh words from Ed (as in, not smart-tongued, but only just these last few breaths uttered: I e-sent him postings from this thread and he replied almost instantly):

Aha! A very timely pair of related questions! I'm going to break off puttering on the outstanding Realmslore questions in this thread for a few minutes, and quickly answer this latest matter about Vangerdahast and Elminster.

simontrinity, I hope in future fiction to outline this in far greater detail, but let me summarize the relationship between Vangey and Old El.

Gerath Hoan, welcome to the thread, and I hope what follows answers your query about Vangey.

Briefly put, Vangerdahast has always been an ambitious, controlling sort of person, and has always been fiercely, unswervingly dedicated to the service of Cormyr (or to be a tad more precise, his vision of what the Forest Kingdom could and should be).

Early in his career, Vangey found himself desiring to achieve the greatest possible personal magical power to arm himself properly for plunging into the ferocious power struggles swirling around the Cormyrean Court at the time of his youth (and realizing his personal knowledge of magic and mastery of spells would have to be better than anyone the various Cormyrean noble families -- and/or their Sembian allies -- could hire). He decided to go to the best tutor he could think of: Elminster.

He became El's apprentice, and flourished in spellcraft, though he found Elminster's freewheeling, meddling, all-too-often-overly-kindhearted style grating (being himself more in love with control and hierarchy).

The problems arose after Vangey left Elminster's tutelage (amicably enough) and returned to Cormyr. Vangerdahast considered El his 'ace in the hole' to call upon whenever real crises threatened the stability of Cormyr and outstripped War Wizard capabilities, and did so -- but very much resented that Elminster's meddling and wise old advice came with such aid, every time.

One of the supporting scenes in ELMINSTER IN HELL ("Here Be Wizards" in Chapter 5) illustrates this ongoing friction (and the guilt creeping into Vangey recently, over his relations with Elminster).

Not knowing a polite way to go on demanding El's aid but at the same time telling him to 'butt out' of trying to twist events and attitudes in Cormyr (and dismissing the fact that El and the other Chosen had been meddling in Cormyr and everywhere else for years upon years), Vangey said it impolitely.

El took it well enough -- but went right on meddling, just choosing to now do it behind Vangey's back or without bothering to stop in and say hello to Vangey whenever he was active in Cormyr. Again, Vangerdahast chose to ignore that this is a large and well-established part of what Chosen of Mystra DO, and took it as a personal challenge to his authority. A failure to understand that "the apprentice had grown up," if you will. So Vangerdahast became increasingly frosty in his verbal and written communications with Elminster, and his comments about Elminster to other Chosen and to Harper go-betweens.

And Old El went on serenely behaving the way he always had, occasionally teasing Vangey with smart return-fire remarks of his own and ignoring Vangerdahast's decrees and demands to War Wizards that El be arrested and rendered no aid. As most of El's acidic remarks were shrewd criticisms of Vangerdahast's failings (love of intrigue, desire to know EVERYthing going on in the realm and thus crush and ruin shy or paranoid persons by repeatedly violating their privacy, and absolute need to be at the centre of things and to ALWAYS be in control, even when that need hampered the necessary personal growth of Obarskyrs destined to rule or who might come to the throne if bad things happened to their close relations, and so on), they really nettled Vangey, and the deep stings made him even more furious.

Both the Harpers and the Chosen admired Vangerdahast's successes in dealing with rebellious Cormyrean nobles and Azoun IV's personal failings, and building Cormyr into a truly prosperous, law-abiding, strong realm, and covertly helped him whenever they could. In the words of Storm Silverhand: "If we had a dozen Cormyrs, Faerun would be a shining homeland for all." They also noticed that increased experience and the goadings of Elminster were tempering Vangerdahast into an increasingly dextrous intriguer, and into a man who increasingly saw and admitted his own failings, and was willing to work to mend them.

So they wanted him to stick around, in particular to oversee the Forest Kingdom after Azoun IV's inevitable death (given ambitious nobles and Sembians, Alusair's willful nature, and other factors), and started to manipulate him into finding old magics and developing others that have longevity side-effects. Vangey is no fool when it comes to magic, and the moment he noticed these longevity effects, he embraced them so as, yes, to be around to serve Cormyr for the greatest possible time. Whereupon his manipulators increased their work to lengthen his years even more, beyond what he'd noticed. To what extent and in which ways they did so I'd like to keep secret for now (possible future fiction, again), but suffice it to say that their efforts, coupled with some magics that seem to lengthen the lifespans of all Royal Magicians of Cormyr (quite possibly because Mystra looks favourably on anyone who maintains and commands a force of government-related wizards, so long as those mages behave in ways that don't involve widespread slaughter of other wizards), gave Vangey many more years than most folk can enjoy.

And Vangey has used his time well. As SiriusBlack pointed out, ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER shows us something of how Vangerdahast and Elminster get along "now" (current Realms time).

[...]

I feel I should be blowing a herald's horn.
THO"

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 08 Oct 2008 00:45:47
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe

USA
544 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2008 :  17:25:03  Show Profile  Visit Ardashir's Homepage Send Ardashir a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
I'm sure Ed can give you a much fuller answer, but I've seen several examples of exiled or fled Red Wizards in published Realmslore.

There was a pirate outside Aglarond/Altumbel, for one thing, and then there was the man in the Mage in the Iron Mask. I wouldn't be surprised if more than one reclusive sage or hedge wizard with a mysterious past turned out to have worn the crimson and come out second best in some struggle where there was no prize for almost succeeding. Thay is not famous for the mercy shown to those who displease the Zulkirs, but compared to what happens to those who reach too high and falter in that cruel land, it is but as a lover's touch.



Just to add my two cents, I figured that Thay was intended from the start as the Realmsian version of Howard's Stygia -- the place where all the evil, exiled sorcerers with truly nasty spells come from.
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2008 :  22:25:34  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage  Click to see AlorinDawn's MSN Messenger address Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?



I'm sure that more than a little of it is the simple fact that El just pops in, does his "meddling", and pops back out again. He's playing without permission on Vangey's turf, and has no doubt interfered with a plan or two of Vangey's.

It prolly also makes Vangerdahast feel inferior, since an outsider so obviously feels free to wander in and play his own games -- and Vangey can't do jack about it.

Also, Vangey likes to know everything that's going on. Elminster is a wild card, as far as Vangey is concerned -- and he doesn't like wild cards. And Elminster has prolly dealt with more than one threat that Vangey didn't know about, which isn't going to make a control freak feel good about the job he's doing.

And this part is pure speculation... But Vangey may also be jealous of Elminster. El is more powerful, has a lot more irons in the fire, knows more, and -- perhaps the biggest thing of all -- has a personal relationship with Mystra. And he juggles all that just as readily, if not more so, than Vangey does with the myriad plots and conspiracies in just Cormyr.

Of course, all of this might just be additional reasoning, on top of something else. So I'm going to be looking forward to Ed's answer, too. I've wondered about that grudge more than once, myself.

Actually, Ed already answered this somewhat with a reply from May '04:-

"May 16, 2004: Hail, fellow scribes! Doth the wind blow fair for thee?

Yes, 'tis I, The Hooded One, with VERY fresh words from Ed (as in, not smart-tongued, but only just these last few breaths uttered: I e-sent him postings from this thread and he replied almost instantly):

Aha! A very timely pair of related questions! I'm going to break off puttering on the outstanding Realmslore questions in this thread for a few minutes, and quickly answer this latest matter about Vangerdahast and Elminster.

simontrinity, I hope in future fiction to outline this in far greater detail, but let me summarize the relationship between Vangey and Old El.

Gerath Hoan, welcome to the thread, and I hope what follows answers your query about Vangey.

Briefly put, Vangerdahast has always been an ambitious, controlling sort of person, and has always been fiercely, unswervingly dedicated to the service of Cormyr (or to be a tad more precise, his vision of what the Forest Kingdom could and should be).

Early in his career, Vangey found himself desiring to achieve the greatest possible personal magical power to arm himself properly for plunging into the ferocious power struggles swirling around the Cormyrean Court at the time of his youth (and realizing his personal knowledge of magic and mastery of spells would have to be better than anyone the various Cormyrean noble families -- and/or their Sembian allies -- could hire). He decided to go to the best tutor he could think of: Elminster.

He became El's apprentice, and flourished in spellcraft, though he found Elminster's freewheeling, meddling, all-too-often-overly-kindhearted style grating (being himself more in love with control and hierarchy).

The problems arose after Vangey left Elminster's tutelage (amicably enough) and returned to Cormyr. Vangerdahast considered El his 'ace in the hole' to call upon whenever real crises threatened the stability of Cormyr and outstripped War Wizard capabilities, and did so -- but very much resented that Elminster's meddling and wise old advice came with such aid, every time.

One of the supporting scenes in ELMINSTER IN HELL ("Here Be Wizards" in Chapter 5) illustrates this ongoing friction (and the guilt creeping into Vangey recently, over his relations with Elminster).

Not knowing a polite way to go on demanding El's aid but at the same time telling him to 'butt out' of trying to twist events and attitudes in Cormyr (and dismissing the fact that El and the other Chosen had been meddling in Cormyr and everywhere else for years upon years), Vangey said it impolitely.

El took it well enough -- but went right on meddling, just choosing to now do it behind Vangey's back or without bothering to stop in and say hello to Vangey whenever he was active in Cormyr. Again, Vangerdahast chose to ignore that this is a large and well-established part of what Chosen of Mystra DO, and took it as a personal challenge to his authority. A failure to understand that "the apprentice had grown up," if you will. So Vangerdahast became increasingly frosty in his verbal and written communications with Elminster, and his comments about Elminster to other Chosen and to Harper go-betweens.

And Old El went on serenely behaving the way he always had, occasionally teasing Vangey with smart return-fire remarks of his own and ignoring Vangerdahast's decrees and demands to War Wizards that El be arrested and rendered no aid. As most of El's acidic remarks were shrewd criticisms of Vangerdahast's failings (love of intrigue, desire to know EVERYthing going on in the realm and thus crush and ruin shy or paranoid persons by repeatedly violating their privacy, and absolute need to be at the centre of things and to ALWAYS be in control, even when that need hampered the necessary personal growth of Obarskyrs destined to rule or who might come to the throne if bad things happened to their close relations, and so on), they really nettled Vangey, and the deep stings made him even more furious.

Both the Harpers and the Chosen admired Vangerdahast's successes in dealing with rebellious Cormyrean nobles and Azoun IV's personal failings, and building Cormyr into a truly prosperous, law-abiding, strong realm, and covertly helped him whenever they could. In the words of Storm Silverhand: "If we had a dozen Cormyrs, Faerun would be a shining homeland for all." They also noticed that increased experience and the goadings of Elminster were tempering Vangerdahast into an increasingly dextrous intriguer, and into a man who increasingly saw and admitted his own failings, and was willing to work to mend them.

So they wanted him to stick around, in particular to oversee the Forest Kingdom after Azoun IV's inevitable death (given ambitious nobles and Sembians, Alusair's willful nature, and other factors), and started to manipulate him into finding old magics and developing others that have longevity side-effects. Vangey is no fool when it comes to magic, and the moment he noticed these longevity effects, he embraced them so as, yes, to be around to serve Cormyr for the greatest possible time. Whereupon his manipulators increased their work to lengthen his years even more, beyond what he'd noticed. To what extent and in which ways they did so I'd like to keep secret for now (possible future fiction, again), but suffice it to say that their efforts, coupled with some magics that seem to lengthen the lifespans of all Royal Magicians of Cormyr (quite possibly because Mystra looks favourably on anyone who maintains and commands a force of government-related wizards, so long as those mages behave in ways that don't involve widespread slaughter of other wizards), gave Vangey many more years than most folk can enjoy.

And Vangey has used his time well. As SiriusBlack pointed out, ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER shows us something of how Vangerdahast and Elminster get along "now" (current Realms time).

[...]

I feel I should be blowing a herald's horn.
THO"



I just wanted to bring to THO's attention I just so happen to have a herald's horn!

Currently reading: Eyes of The Dragon by Stephen King

Long live Sniffy Wigglebottom
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2008 :  22:56:45  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Well met!

Ed, would you please enlighten us about Torilian tales comparable to the Wandering Jew or the Flying Dutchman, people cursed to wander endlessly until some unlikely condition is fulfilled?




I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  05:08:08  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Well met!

Ed, would you please enlighten us about Torilian tales comparable to the Wandering Jew or the Flying Dutchman, people cursed to wander endlessly until some unlikely condition is fulfilled?


I'm one of those, Jamallo! Said unlikely condition is the answering of all of my questions, which would be unlikely even in a universe full of an infinite number of Eds relaying answers through an infinite number of Hooded Ones... although the last bit is quite enticing...

Anyway, now I've gone and forgotten my question...

Edit: Okay, I have a question, not my original question I suspect: With all of the layers-deep intricacies surrounding Khelben, his grandson, the fates of certain other individuals including Garnetallisar, the return of Thultanthar, and mysteries like the Shadevari and the red pyramids of Ascore (which I *had* a question about, but found another scroll on the matter featuring my three favourite letters: NDA), I have one simple RW question:

Ed, are you *sure* your last name isn't Machiavelli?

(Second edit: On second thought, it's much more likely that your middle name is Niccolo... more subtle and devious that way.)

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 09 Oct 2008 05:40:07
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1229 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  05:16:59  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message
I've been reading a few historical fictions and the quasi-medieval Song of Ice and Fire recently. It made me think about a few things.

1) Tourneys and jousts. Where are they popular? Do they work similarly to the medieval ones or are they more Realms-specific? Does the winner keep the loser's mount and arms (or allow him to ransom them), making them a good way for a fine knight to earn an income?

2) Ransom. Is this done at all in the Realms and if so, where? I'm speaking of the medieval custom of ransoming noble captives and knights taken in battle, of course. I'm specifically interested in the customs of the Vast, Chondath and Sembia; but all lore is good.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14397 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  06:48:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
I think of Ed more as Rasputin, the mad monk.

A man who knows when to plot like Machivelli... and when to get down and party.

Edit: I think the similar beards also helps.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Oct 2008 17:48:34
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Kamuraki
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  00:26:53  Show Profile  Visit Kamuraki's Homepage Send Kamuraki a Private Message
This is not so much a question, as it is something that made me think of Ed's novels. I give you Bill Bailey's Medieval Porn Music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtNEDQZS-I

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

- Douglas Adams
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  15:58:23  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
LOL! So it does! BTW, Ed has turned in ARCH WIZARD (sequel to DARK LORD) to Solaris, and is hard at work on top-secret Realms fiction as I type this . . .
No, "top-secret" means I won't say more; down, scribes! Down, I say!
(Oh, all right, rise up if you must [wink]).
love to all,
THO
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3074 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  16:13:04  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

LOL! So it does! BTW, Ed has turned in ARCH WIZARD (sequel to DARK LORD) to Solaris, and is hard at work on top-secret Realms fiction as I type this . . .
No, "top-secret" means I won't say more; down, scribes! Down, I say!
(Oh, all right, rise up if you must [wink]).
love to all,
THO



Methinks we have to get out the 'devices' to make milady talk!

Bring out ... the comfy chair! And some good tea!

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe

147 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  18:14:21  Show Profile  Visit GoCeraf's Homepage Send GoCeraf a Private Message
I got in an actual bar fight last weekend. Someone hit me with a chair, and someone else threw a cup of tea at me. The chair was not comfy, but the tea tasted all right.

Regarding the pre-Spellplague Border Kingdoms, are there any notable mercenary companies in the area? If so, are their charters recognized throughout the kingdoms, or only in certain areas?

Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling.

Edited by - GoCeraf on 10 Oct 2008 18:15:03
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1796 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  22:15:42  Show Profile  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki

This is not so much a question, as it is something that made me think of Ed's novels. I give you Bill Bailey's Medieval Porn Music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtNEDQZS-I

LOL! I've forwarded this link to absolutely everyone I know, plus these... I have been smitten by Bill Bailey, it seems...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI6iVwpOWNA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WP36uE_Lmc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDBPuo-iRdk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiEcFEHmycA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjfsXgdzJs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sv2byf3GIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no7tyW31ekE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHDQ6B0disY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WktxIqbGAj0

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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1796 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  23:25:42  Show Profile  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message
Dear Lady Hooded,

Can you ask Ed if he would be interested in writing novels set in Paizo's Pathfinder setting?

Thanks!
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4923 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  23:33:47  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf

I got in an actual bar fight last weekend. Someone hit me with a chair, and someone else threw a cup of tea at me. The chair was not comfy, but the tea tasted all right.

Regarding the pre-Spellplague Border Kingdoms, are there any notable mercenary companies in the area? If so, are their charters recognized throughout the kingdoms, or only in certain areas?



Ed will no doubt give you much more, but one of the frontpiece "flavor" quotes from his Border Kingdom series of articles refers to the Company of the Limping Unicorn mercenaries.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  00:59:20  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf

I got in an actual bar fight last weekend. Someone hit me with a chair, and someone else threw a cup of tea at me. The chair was not comfy, but the tea tasted all right.

Regarding the pre-Spellplague Border Kingdoms, are there any notable mercenary companies in the area? If so, are their charters recognized throughout the kingdoms, or only in certain areas?



Ed will no doubt give you much more, but one of the frontpiece "flavor" quotes from his Border Kingdom series of articles refers to the Company of the Limping Unicorn mercenaries.

-- George Krashos


Indeed. Here's the actual article:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frbk/20060322a

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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe

147 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  06:42:21  Show Profile  Visit GoCeraf's Homepage Send GoCeraf a Private Message
I actually spent some time reading through the Border Kingdoms articles (although I missed that quote), but came up with little regarding mercenary companies.

Regardless, I appreciate the reference. It's good to know a name at least, but I was looking for a touch more substance

Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling.
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  12:26:38  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
Olore Ed and THO

Are there any restrictions on Cormyte nobles building castles and fortified manors in the lands they own within the Forest Country? Do they need to obtain a 'license to crenellate' from the crown or can they just build what they want? If they do need a licence how much would they cost? Would it need to be in gold or will service to the crown be acceptable payment?

Is there an official surveying and architect department in the Royal Palace that oversee new castles et al to ensure they meet the 'appropriate' (i.e. Vangy's) standards?

Can a rich merchant/sucessful adventurer build themselves a castle or are they restricted to fortified houses?

What would be the current (circa 1360 DR or so) fashionable 'castle type' be? - turrets and walls, motte and bailey, strengthened houses etc

What do 'common-folk' think of Lords buiding castles and grand houses? Do Nobles have the right to demolish common dwellings to make way for their own buildings within their own lands (or just demolish them to improve the view from their existing property)?

And any other castle lore would be most appreciated.

Take care

Damian
ps Ed, best wishes to your Good Lady

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2008 :  16:29:21  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. I bring you once more the words of Ed, this time in a speedy response to crazedventurers (the post just above this one).
Ed writes:


Hi, all. Sorry for the silences these last few days; it’s Canadian Thanksgiving and I have family visiting, to say nothing of having to nurse my wife, deal with forty dinner-plate-sized pies made of deer meat that the butcher just produced (my son-in-law provided the deer), and continue to steer through the aftermath of Brian’s death and the projects that were left bouncing everywhere when that master juggler so abruptly departed the scene.
Hi, Damian! Great questions, thanks for your good wishes for Jen, and as it happens I have the lore you’d like at my fingertips, so here we go:

Yes, there are restrictions on Cormyrean nobles building castles and fortified manors; their local house wizard (who is often a War Wizard) is duty-bound (standing orders) to report any hint or planning of such building; the War Wizards will then covertly spy from afar on the noble to make sure the noble fully and honestly reports all they are doing to the “local lord.” Those who don’t face fines, the dismantling of what they’ve built, and decrees forbidding them from building anything of the sort in future on said lands or in that area (such decrees are often dissolved later, upon payment of HUGE fees).
There’s no formal license that needs to be obtained or paid for, but there IS a prohibition on building anything fortified (and, as we know, on hiring warriors beyond a certain allowed number, too). Yes, plans have to filed “at Court” (with the scribes in the Royal Court who handle all building plans) of what is to be built, and those plans must be followed. Modifications and expansions are allowed, so long as revised plans are filed - - and both Vangey and senior Purple Dragon officers closely inspect all such plans to make sure a noble isn’t planning, say, a bombard-battery that can “overshoot” a town or a rival noble’s lands.
A rich merchant or successful adventurer can indeed build themselves a SMALL, simple castle (a “keep”), or fortify a small part of a mansion. They can also purchase a larger castle from a noble, and this in fact happens all the time; nobles who need lots of cash or want to build a larger, ritzier castle sell off their old ones to the waiting and eager rich merchants and successful adventurers (at any one time, there are always lots of the former and a handful of the latter). Please note: when you sell off such property, you are selling the land with it, in a “footprint” large enough to (except in urban areas, where streets form boundaries) ride four horses abreast around the walls without any risk of touching any part of the wall (if there’s a moat, obviously this four-horse-wide expanse must be outside the moat). So the noble who sells a castle can’t claim he or she still owns the land it sits on, and try to exercise any rights thereby.
As of 1360 DR (and for the three decades before that, and quite likely for at least a decade after that), the fashionable sort of castle is an outer “curtain wall” of stone with turrets and buttresses, surrounding an orchard, gardens (with at least a duck- or frog- pond), stable yard and block, guest houses, servant dwellings (often built along the inside face of the castle wall), and the main manor (a mansion of any size, often fortified before the building of the wall if it has any “solemn age” at all; in other words, if it’s three decades or more older than the outer castle wall, it will likely have been fortified with at least thicker walls and a single front tower with turret, for archers or crossbowmen to defend the front doors). The outer castle wall will always have a gatehouse, and often this will have a portcullis (moats are uncommon, and “wet moats” [as opposed to dry ditches] are rarer). Moats, by the way, are often stocked with fish, but NEVER used as refuse or sewage dumps; for that, there is often, if existing topography allows, a marshy area, widened into waste ponds, downhill from (and downwind of) the walled castle area, where middens are maintained. This is known as “the lees.”
Secret passages are fashionable, by the way, but tunnels to allow secret access through or under the walls are rare, and are mainly old (not currently built). That doesn’t mean there aren’t many, many rumors of every last large house having them, of course, but these tales turn out to be truth mainly in urban areas, where the cellar of one building can be easily and covertly connected to the next.
Commoners are used to such grand houses. Some aspire to them, some resent them (usually as good-natured grumbling, no more), and a few regard them as “safe craziness” for “folk what has more coin than their minds can handle,” meaning they’re at least building something and not using their wealth on something more dangerous and foolish. Nobles have the right to demolish residences on their own lands, but they must provide new AND SUPERIOR dwellings beforehand, so the people they’re dispossessing can move into the new digs in an unhurried manner. Note that one mustn’t think of this in real-world feudal terms; a noble doesn’t automatically “own” all land in the area their castles or ancestral seats are located; land is owned by deed (and most of it by the Crown) in Cormyr, rather than being held in feudal fashion, so the local noble is always the landlord. Rather, most nobles take care to buy up (again, urban areas excepted) lands for at least a bowshot, and more often, as far as they can see, around the homes they want to enjoy most. It’s servants and others dwelling in existing cottages and crofts on such lands that I’m speaking of - - and there’s an important wrinkle here: by a law passed by the last Rhigaerd, anyone who is a tenant and who gets moved in this manner, MUST get moved into a dwelling built for them, and deed to it PASSED FREELY TO THEM (in other words, they get a house for free).
So a noble who wants to buy up, demolish, or otherwise affect a dwelling they don’t own, must buy it from the owner in the usual fashion (usually by overpaying outrageously, if the owner doesn’t want to sell). If any dwelling a noble has made an offer on burns down, standing royal decree means the noble must rebuild it, for the current owner, at their own expense - - so arson is actively discouraged.
Please feel free to ask supplementals; I have lots more castle lore, but a granddaughter crawling all over me right now, and a host of smaller distractions (mainly having to do with food!) driving my aging brain to distraction. Thanks for the questions!


So saith Ed. Creator of the Realms and Cormyr and lots of castles (not to mention secret passages), too.
love to all,
THO
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