Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Chamber of Sages
 Questions for Ed Greenwood (2008)
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 86

AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
313 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2008 :  22:45:56  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
Ed,

I see that you have finally signed on to do a mini adventure over at Woflgang's Open Design. Looking forward to your addition to the group!

P.S. By best to Mrs. Greenwood and her speedy recovery.
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  00:44:37  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

I received and replied. :)

Thanks btw.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Kuje, I just found Ed's Purple Lady e-mail to you in Hamilton White's backfiles, and forwarded it to you (the "rochester.rr" account). Is this still an active account for you? Should I send it to the hotmail one in your Candlekeep profile instead, or- -?
love,
THO



Neat. Any chance you can soon shift this reply over to my account, Kuje? I'd like to try and include it in the next "reply compilation update" I've got ready to send off to Alaundo.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  01:53:29  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Hello All


Ed do Red Wizards occasionally just decide they don't want to play the game anymore so go elsewhere and let hair grow our tattoo's?

Any phoenix creatures in Chult, any region where they may be found if one was seeking?
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  02:03:25  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by createvmind

Any phoenix creatures in Chult, any region where they may be found if one was seeking?
While Ed may have something to add, I will say that Demihuman Deities notes that "phoenixes" serve Marthammor, Aerdrie and Corellan. So places that are important to the worship of these faiths may be where one could find a phoenix.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 07 Oct 2008 03:02:07
Go to Top of Page

Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  02:27:33  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
There's no need. :) See my post in Fillow's thread.

And sorry again THO for making you look for stuff that far back when I had included it.

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Neat. Any chance you can soon shift this reply over to my account, Kuje? I'd like to try and include it in the next "reply compilation update" I've got ready to send off to Alaundo.


For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  03:05:11  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

There's no need. :) See my post in Fillow's thread.

And sorry again THO for making you look for stuff that far back when I had included it.

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Neat. Any chance you can soon shift this reply over to my account, Kuje? I'd like to try and include it in the next "reply compilation update" I've got ready to send off to Alaundo.



Ah. No worries then.

I'm kinda surprised I didn't think to check the other reply files myself.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 07 Oct 2008 03:05:56
Go to Top of Page

Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1861 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  03:44:18  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by createvmind

Ed do Red Wizards occasionally just decide they don't want to play the game anymore so go elsewhere and let hair grow our tattoo's?

I'm sure Ed can give you a much fuller answer, but I've seen several examples of exiled or fled Red Wizards in published Realmslore.

There was a pirate outside Aglarond/Altumbel, for one thing, and then there was the man in the Mage in the Iron Mask. I wouldn't be surprised if more than one reclusive sage or hedge wizard with a mysterious past turned out to have worn the crimson and come out second best in some struggle where there was no prize for almost succeeding. Thay is not famous for the mercy shown to those who displease the Zulkirs, but compared to what happens to those who reach too high and falter in that cruel land, it is but as a lover's touch.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  06:27:26  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Hmmm ... Jakk, I don't like American football (watered-down rugby!), but I am interested in having Ed present us with rules for some of the common physical games played in the Realms. Trying to comprehend the rules to British Bulldog last week made me appreciate just how vital it is to have detailed rules to a game. Dismissing something as a "ball game" isn't particularly satisfying: in the saga of Egil Skallagrimson, for example, he first makes his debut as a violent proto-viking by killing one of his playmates in a dispute during a "ball game." What was it? How was it played? Inquiring readers want to know, but alas, there are precious few clues in the saga itself. It would be nice if we had rules to games in the Realms so that we could roleplay characters doing something besides killing sentient beings to take their belongings.



Actually, I much prefer rugby too... but North American football is more accessible to me given my pathetic and barely-affordable cable package, so it's what I watch more of.

[edit] But then... isn't rugby (and "proper" football, at least in England) simply "killing sentient beings to take their belongings" (in this case, a ball; rather like the Icelandic sagas you describe, which are among my favourite literary works as well... those and Beowulf)... or am I exaggerating slightly? [/edit]

And on a related note that's actually on-topic, I too would be interested in rules for games (athletic and otherwise) in the Realms. The history of the Obarskyrs mentions chess... is it the same as our game in terms of specific rules, or only in concept?

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 07 Oct 2008 06:33:04
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  07:06:29  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
And *one* more question for Ed... can you tell us what happened to Annam (the forefather of the giant races), or is that covered by NDA as well? Thanks again to both Ed and THO for all of the time spent and typing done to satisfy our (apparently insatiable) curiosity about the Realms.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 07 Oct 2008 07:08:11
Go to Top of Page

Marek
Seeker

Italy
52 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  11:49:51  Show Profile  Visit Marek's Homepage Send Marek a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

quote:
Originally posted by createvmind

Ed do Red Wizards occasionally just decide they don't want to play the game anymore so go elsewhere and let hair grow our tattoo's?

I'm sure Ed can give you a much fuller answer, but I've seen several examples of exiled or fled Red Wizards in published Realmslore.

There was a pirate outside Aglarond/Altumbel, for one thing, and then there was the man in the Mage in the Iron Mask. I wouldn't be surprised if more than one reclusive sage or hedge wizard with a mysterious past turned out to have worn the crimson and come out second best in some struggle where there was no prize for almost succeeding. Thay is not famous for the mercy shown to those who displease the Zulkirs, but compared to what happens to those who reach too high and falter in that cruel land, it is but as a lover's touch.



That's right and some Red Wizards don't even shave their heads. Even a few zulkirs do still keep their hair.
Some Red Wizards away from home, especially in uncivilized lands are known to have grwon beard and hair.
Anyway shaving head and body is more of a status symbol which sets the Mulans apart from commoners. Some Thayans do that just to fit in the society and pose as trendy rich people by sporting their bald scalps and their tattoos. As a matter of fact, also getting tattoos is a fashion trend in Thay and not related to magic. Smooth skin and tattoos get along together and magic tattoos are just a way to make a fashion trend useful. At least this is what I got from all I read about them. I think this also dictates the taste in beauty, for a Thayan hairy is ugly, let's not forget that the despised Rashemi are very hairy and Thayans are deeply racists. I am sure that a big % of Thayans of Rashemi ethnicity shave their body hair just to feel less scrutinized.

Edited by - Marek on 07 Oct 2008 11:51:28
Go to Top of Page

Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:12:02  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk



(snip)

And on a related note that's actually on-topic, I too would be interested in rules for games (athletic and otherwise) in the Realms. The history of the Obarskyrs mentions chess... is it the same as our game in terms of specific rules, or only in concept?




Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog has an illustration of a lanceboard set, and it looks so similar to our 16-to-a-side, 64-square game that the Realms game is probably an import from Earth. Drowish sava sounds sufficiently different from our terrestrial games that it is probably indigenous.

quote:
The new Realms is an Abeiration of the old Realms.

Quote: "Sweet..."Endquote






I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

Go to Top of Page

Malcolm
Learned Scribe

242 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:13:21  Show Profile  Visit Malcolm's Homepage Send Malcolm a Private Message
Dear Ed and THO,
I have another Cormyr question. Feuds amog nobles, this time, while inside the gates of Suzail.
We know that many noble families hate each other. We can read in Ed's novels and elsewhere of killings and suchlike violence occurring as a result of such feuds and rivalries, even inside the city of Suzail (and it almost seems as if I should say: and OF COURSE in Marsember and Arabel).
I'm sure these are the rare highlights (or lowlights) of daily social relations. What about the more frequent everyday dealings, inside Suzail? Do they ignore each other? Treat each other curtly? Be coldly "VERY correct"? What? Or does it vary with the individuals? (Okay, I'm sure it does, so what behavior do the patriarchs and matriarchs want all of their kin to adhere to?)
Thanks!
Go to Top of Page

Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:15:21  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Dear Ed and THO,
I'd like to pounce on Malcolm's question and add just one more addendum to it:

And what role do the War Wizards play in all of these noble feuds and disputes? (What does Vangey or Caladnei or Laspeera order various of them to do?)
Thanks!
BB
Go to Top of Page

Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:16:36  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
Okay, as long as we're gang-tackling, here. . .
Garen Thal, what thinkest thou?
Go to Top of Page

Sage of Stars
Seeker

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:25:41  Show Profile  Visit Sage of Stars's Homepage Send Sage of Stars a Private Message
Ed,
I recently picked up a copy of your second "dark elf not drow" series book from Tor, DARK VENGEANCE, and enjoyed it. (For scribes who haven't heard of these books, the first one was the excellent DARK WARRIOR RISING.) I would have loved to see more of your version of the subterranean world mated to the Realms, rather than just the Greyhawk one. My question is: do you see the sort of slave-raiding that's a part of those books to still be going on in the post-Spellplague Realms, too? (And if so, where is it most active?)
Thank you.
P.S. Again for scribes not familiar with these books, I'm asking about "dark elves coming to the surface world by night to snatch human children away to become slaves down in the subterranean dark elf cities."
Go to Top of Page

Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:27:21  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Great books, those. Of the "slash, hack, and more slash" variety. Not great literature, but great reads. Loved 'em; have read the first one three (and, bits of it, four) times now.
BB
Go to Top of Page

Broken Helm
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  17:36:00  Show Profile  Visit Broken Helm's Homepage Send Broken Helm a Private Message
I agree, Blueblade. Fun reads.
In the first book, Ed's words at the back suggest at least some of the Underdark-like setting of these two books was originally intended to be the Underdark of the Realms. The two rival religions of the dark elves are very interesting; does Ed have more to share, in later novels or perhaps, as it pertains to the Realms, here in this thread? (Please?)
Go to Top of Page

The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3557 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  19:53:30  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message
THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35990 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  20:21:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?



I'm sure that more than a little of it is the simple fact that El just pops in, does his "meddling", and pops back out again. He's playing without permission on Vangey's turf, and has no doubt interfered with a plan or two of Vangey's.

It prolly also makes Vangerdahast feel inferior, since an outsider so obviously feels free to wander in and play his own games -- and Vangey can't do jack about it.

Also, Vangey likes to know everything that's going on. Elminster is a wild card, as far as Vangey is concerned -- and he doesn't like wild cards. And Elminster has prolly dealt with more than one threat that Vangey didn't know about, which isn't going to make a control freak feel good about the job he's doing.

And this part is pure speculation... But Vangey may also be jealous of Elminster. El is more powerful, has a lot more irons in the fire, knows more, and -- perhaps the biggest thing of all -- has a personal relationship with Mystra. And he juggles all that just as readily, if not more so, than Vangey does with the myriad plots and conspiracies in just Cormyr.

Of course, all of this might just be additional reasoning, on top of something else. So I'm going to be looking forward to Ed's answer, too. I've wondered about that grudge more than once, myself.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3177 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  21:05:29  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
Wasn't Vangey an apprentice of El's waaaaaay back in the day as well?

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
Go to Top of Page

Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  23:40:19  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message
Yup yup and I was going to mention that but I didn't get around to it before you did. :)

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Wasn't Vangey an apprentice of El's waaaaaay back in the day as well?


For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2008 :  23:55:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Yes he was... and El probably wrapped his knuckles with a yardstick a time or two.

And to back-up what Wooly just said, there is a scene in a novel - I can't remember which nor find it ATM - wherein we see just how much pull Elminster has, and how he is able to 'pull rank' on Vangy within Cormyr itself. The scene is where Vangerdehast goes to arrest a noble for non-payment of taxes, and Elminster appears, pays the debt, and tells Vangy to "be on his way".

Now, wouldn't that just piss you off no end, if you thought you were the Mage-supreme of the nation that occurred in?

Not sure if that was in Elmisntster in Hell - I'm trying to find it now, and can't, but there are a couple of other scenes in there wherein El 'shows up' Vangerdehast again and again. Its hard for someone with his ego to accept feeling so inadequate in El's presence.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Oct 2008 23:57:25
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2008 :  00:43:22  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?



I'm sure that more than a little of it is the simple fact that El just pops in, does his "meddling", and pops back out again. He's playing without permission on Vangey's turf, and has no doubt interfered with a plan or two of Vangey's.

It prolly also makes Vangerdahast feel inferior, since an outsider so obviously feels free to wander in and play his own games -- and Vangey can't do jack about it.

Also, Vangey likes to know everything that's going on. Elminster is a wild card, as far as Vangey is concerned -- and he doesn't like wild cards. And Elminster has prolly dealt with more than one threat that Vangey didn't know about, which isn't going to make a control freak feel good about the job he's doing.

And this part is pure speculation... But Vangey may also be jealous of Elminster. El is more powerful, has a lot more irons in the fire, knows more, and -- perhaps the biggest thing of all -- has a personal relationship with Mystra. And he juggles all that just as readily, if not more so, than Vangey does with the myriad plots and conspiracies in just Cormyr.

Of course, all of this might just be additional reasoning, on top of something else. So I'm going to be looking forward to Ed's answer, too. I've wondered about that grudge more than once, myself.

Actually, Ed already answered this somewhat with a reply from May '04:-

"May 16, 2004: Hail, fellow scribes! Doth the wind blow fair for thee?

Yes, 'tis I, The Hooded One, with VERY fresh words from Ed (as in, not smart-tongued, but only just these last few breaths uttered: I e-sent him postings from this thread and he replied almost instantly):

Aha! A very timely pair of related questions! I'm going to break off puttering on the outstanding Realmslore questions in this thread for a few minutes, and quickly answer this latest matter about Vangerdahast and Elminster.

simontrinity, I hope in future fiction to outline this in far greater detail, but let me summarize the relationship between Vangey and Old El.

Gerath Hoan, welcome to the thread, and I hope what follows answers your query about Vangey.

Briefly put, Vangerdahast has always been an ambitious, controlling sort of person, and has always been fiercely, unswervingly dedicated to the service of Cormyr (or to be a tad more precise, his vision of what the Forest Kingdom could and should be).

Early in his career, Vangey found himself desiring to achieve the greatest possible personal magical power to arm himself properly for plunging into the ferocious power struggles swirling around the Cormyrean Court at the time of his youth (and realizing his personal knowledge of magic and mastery of spells would have to be better than anyone the various Cormyrean noble families -- and/or their Sembian allies -- could hire). He decided to go to the best tutor he could think of: Elminster.

He became El's apprentice, and flourished in spellcraft, though he found Elminster's freewheeling, meddling, all-too-often-overly-kindhearted style grating (being himself more in love with control and hierarchy).

The problems arose after Vangey left Elminster's tutelage (amicably enough) and returned to Cormyr. Vangerdahast considered El his 'ace in the hole' to call upon whenever real crises threatened the stability of Cormyr and outstripped War Wizard capabilities, and did so -- but very much resented that Elminster's meddling and wise old advice came with such aid, every time.

One of the supporting scenes in ELMINSTER IN HELL ("Here Be Wizards" in Chapter 5) illustrates this ongoing friction (and the guilt creeping into Vangey recently, over his relations with Elminster).

Not knowing a polite way to go on demanding El's aid but at the same time telling him to 'butt out' of trying to twist events and attitudes in Cormyr (and dismissing the fact that El and the other Chosen had been meddling in Cormyr and everywhere else for years upon years), Vangey said it impolitely.

El took it well enough -- but went right on meddling, just choosing to now do it behind Vangey's back or without bothering to stop in and say hello to Vangey whenever he was active in Cormyr. Again, Vangerdahast chose to ignore that this is a large and well-established part of what Chosen of Mystra DO, and took it as a personal challenge to his authority. A failure to understand that "the apprentice had grown up," if you will. So Vangerdahast became increasingly frosty in his verbal and written communications with Elminster, and his comments about Elminster to other Chosen and to Harper go-betweens.

And Old El went on serenely behaving the way he always had, occasionally teasing Vangey with smart return-fire remarks of his own and ignoring Vangerdahast's decrees and demands to War Wizards that El be arrested and rendered no aid. As most of El's acidic remarks were shrewd criticisms of Vangerdahast's failings (love of intrigue, desire to know EVERYthing going on in the realm and thus crush and ruin shy or paranoid persons by repeatedly violating their privacy, and absolute need to be at the centre of things and to ALWAYS be in control, even when that need hampered the necessary personal growth of Obarskyrs destined to rule or who might come to the throne if bad things happened to their close relations, and so on), they really nettled Vangey, and the deep stings made him even more furious.

Both the Harpers and the Chosen admired Vangerdahast's successes in dealing with rebellious Cormyrean nobles and Azoun IV's personal failings, and building Cormyr into a truly prosperous, law-abiding, strong realm, and covertly helped him whenever they could. In the words of Storm Silverhand: "If we had a dozen Cormyrs, Faerun would be a shining homeland for all." They also noticed that increased experience and the goadings of Elminster were tempering Vangerdahast into an increasingly dextrous intriguer, and into a man who increasingly saw and admitted his own failings, and was willing to work to mend them.

So they wanted him to stick around, in particular to oversee the Forest Kingdom after Azoun IV's inevitable death (given ambitious nobles and Sembians, Alusair's willful nature, and other factors), and started to manipulate him into finding old magics and developing others that have longevity side-effects. Vangey is no fool when it comes to magic, and the moment he noticed these longevity effects, he embraced them so as, yes, to be around to serve Cormyr for the greatest possible time. Whereupon his manipulators increased their work to lengthen his years even more, beyond what he'd noticed. To what extent and in which ways they did so I'd like to keep secret for now (possible future fiction, again), but suffice it to say that their efforts, coupled with some magics that seem to lengthen the lifespans of all Royal Magicians of Cormyr (quite possibly because Mystra looks favourably on anyone who maintains and commands a force of government-related wizards, so long as those mages behave in ways that don't involve widespread slaughter of other wizards), gave Vangey many more years than most folk can enjoy.

And Vangey has used his time well. As SiriusBlack pointed out, ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER shows us something of how Vangerdahast and Elminster get along "now" (current Realms time).

[...]

I feel I should be blowing a herald's horn.
THO"

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 08 Oct 2008 00:45:47
Go to Top of Page

Ardashir
Senior Scribe

USA
544 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2008 :  17:25:03  Show Profile  Visit Ardashir's Homepage Send Ardashir a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
I'm sure Ed can give you a much fuller answer, but I've seen several examples of exiled or fled Red Wizards in published Realmslore.

There was a pirate outside Aglarond/Altumbel, for one thing, and then there was the man in the Mage in the Iron Mask. I wouldn't be surprised if more than one reclusive sage or hedge wizard with a mysterious past turned out to have worn the crimson and come out second best in some struggle where there was no prize for almost succeeding. Thay is not famous for the mercy shown to those who displease the Zulkirs, but compared to what happens to those who reach too high and falter in that cruel land, it is but as a lover's touch.



Just to add my two cents, I figured that Thay was intended from the start as the Realmsian version of Howard's Stygia -- the place where all the evil, exiled sorcerers with truly nasty spells come from.
Go to Top of Page

AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
313 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2008 :  22:25:34  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?



I'm sure that more than a little of it is the simple fact that El just pops in, does his "meddling", and pops back out again. He's playing without permission on Vangey's turf, and has no doubt interfered with a plan or two of Vangey's.

It prolly also makes Vangerdahast feel inferior, since an outsider so obviously feels free to wander in and play his own games -- and Vangey can't do jack about it.

Also, Vangey likes to know everything that's going on. Elminster is a wild card, as far as Vangey is concerned -- and he doesn't like wild cards. And Elminster has prolly dealt with more than one threat that Vangey didn't know about, which isn't going to make a control freak feel good about the job he's doing.

And this part is pure speculation... But Vangey may also be jealous of Elminster. El is more powerful, has a lot more irons in the fire, knows more, and -- perhaps the biggest thing of all -- has a personal relationship with Mystra. And he juggles all that just as readily, if not more so, than Vangey does with the myriad plots and conspiracies in just Cormyr.

Of course, all of this might just be additional reasoning, on top of something else. So I'm going to be looking forward to Ed's answer, too. I've wondered about that grudge more than once, myself.

Actually, Ed already answered this somewhat with a reply from May '04:-

"May 16, 2004: Hail, fellow scribes! Doth the wind blow fair for thee?

Yes, 'tis I, The Hooded One, with VERY fresh words from Ed (as in, not smart-tongued, but only just these last few breaths uttered: I e-sent him postings from this thread and he replied almost instantly):

Aha! A very timely pair of related questions! I'm going to break off puttering on the outstanding Realmslore questions in this thread for a few minutes, and quickly answer this latest matter about Vangerdahast and Elminster.

simontrinity, I hope in future fiction to outline this in far greater detail, but let me summarize the relationship between Vangey and Old El.

Gerath Hoan, welcome to the thread, and I hope what follows answers your query about Vangey.

Briefly put, Vangerdahast has always been an ambitious, controlling sort of person, and has always been fiercely, unswervingly dedicated to the service of Cormyr (or to be a tad more precise, his vision of what the Forest Kingdom could and should be).

Early in his career, Vangey found himself desiring to achieve the greatest possible personal magical power to arm himself properly for plunging into the ferocious power struggles swirling around the Cormyrean Court at the time of his youth (and realizing his personal knowledge of magic and mastery of spells would have to be better than anyone the various Cormyrean noble families -- and/or their Sembian allies -- could hire). He decided to go to the best tutor he could think of: Elminster.

He became El's apprentice, and flourished in spellcraft, though he found Elminster's freewheeling, meddling, all-too-often-overly-kindhearted style grating (being himself more in love with control and hierarchy).

The problems arose after Vangey left Elminster's tutelage (amicably enough) and returned to Cormyr. Vangerdahast considered El his 'ace in the hole' to call upon whenever real crises threatened the stability of Cormyr and outstripped War Wizard capabilities, and did so -- but very much resented that Elminster's meddling and wise old advice came with such aid, every time.

One of the supporting scenes in ELMINSTER IN HELL ("Here Be Wizards" in Chapter 5) illustrates this ongoing friction (and the guilt creeping into Vangey recently, over his relations with Elminster).

Not knowing a polite way to go on demanding El's aid but at the same time telling him to 'butt out' of trying to twist events and attitudes in Cormyr (and dismissing the fact that El and the other Chosen had been meddling in Cormyr and everywhere else for years upon years), Vangey said it impolitely.

El took it well enough -- but went right on meddling, just choosing to now do it behind Vangey's back or without bothering to stop in and say hello to Vangey whenever he was active in Cormyr. Again, Vangerdahast chose to ignore that this is a large and well-established part of what Chosen of Mystra DO, and took it as a personal challenge to his authority. A failure to understand that "the apprentice had grown up," if you will. So Vangerdahast became increasingly frosty in his verbal and written communications with Elminster, and his comments about Elminster to other Chosen and to Harper go-betweens.

And Old El went on serenely behaving the way he always had, occasionally teasing Vangey with smart return-fire remarks of his own and ignoring Vangerdahast's decrees and demands to War Wizards that El be arrested and rendered no aid. As most of El's acidic remarks were shrewd criticisms of Vangerdahast's failings (love of intrigue, desire to know EVERYthing going on in the realm and thus crush and ruin shy or paranoid persons by repeatedly violating their privacy, and absolute need to be at the centre of things and to ALWAYS be in control, even when that need hampered the necessary personal growth of Obarskyrs destined to rule or who might come to the throne if bad things happened to their close relations, and so on), they really nettled Vangey, and the deep stings made him even more furious.

Both the Harpers and the Chosen admired Vangerdahast's successes in dealing with rebellious Cormyrean nobles and Azoun IV's personal failings, and building Cormyr into a truly prosperous, law-abiding, strong realm, and covertly helped him whenever they could. In the words of Storm Silverhand: "If we had a dozen Cormyrs, Faerun would be a shining homeland for all." They also noticed that increased experience and the goadings of Elminster were tempering Vangerdahast into an increasingly dextrous intriguer, and into a man who increasingly saw and admitted his own failings, and was willing to work to mend them.

So they wanted him to stick around, in particular to oversee the Forest Kingdom after Azoun IV's inevitable death (given ambitious nobles and Sembians, Alusair's willful nature, and other factors), and started to manipulate him into finding old magics and developing others that have longevity side-effects. Vangey is no fool when it comes to magic, and the moment he noticed these longevity effects, he embraced them so as, yes, to be around to serve Cormyr for the greatest possible time. Whereupon his manipulators increased their work to lengthen his years even more, beyond what he'd noticed. To what extent and in which ways they did so I'd like to keep secret for now (possible future fiction, again), but suffice it to say that their efforts, coupled with some magics that seem to lengthen the lifespans of all Royal Magicians of Cormyr (quite possibly because Mystra looks favourably on anyone who maintains and commands a force of government-related wizards, so long as those mages behave in ways that don't involve widespread slaughter of other wizards), gave Vangey many more years than most folk can enjoy.

And Vangey has used his time well. As SiriusBlack pointed out, ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER shows us something of how Vangerdahast and Elminster get along "now" (current Realms time).

[...]

I feel I should be blowing a herald's horn.
THO"



I just wanted to bring to THO's attention I just so happen to have a herald's horn!
Go to Top of Page

Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2008 :  22:56:45  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message
Well met!

Ed, would you please enlighten us about Torilian tales comparable to the Wandering Jew or the Flying Dutchman, people cursed to wander endlessly until some unlikely condition is fulfilled?




I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  05:08:08  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Well met!

Ed, would you please enlighten us about Torilian tales comparable to the Wandering Jew or the Flying Dutchman, people cursed to wander endlessly until some unlikely condition is fulfilled?


I'm one of those, Jamallo! Said unlikely condition is the answering of all of my questions, which would be unlikely even in a universe full of an infinite number of Eds relaying answers through an infinite number of Hooded Ones... although the last bit is quite enticing...

Anyway, now I've gone and forgotten my question...

Edit: Okay, I have a question, not my original question I suspect: With all of the layers-deep intricacies surrounding Khelben, his grandson, the fates of certain other individuals including Garnetallisar, the return of Thultanthar, and mysteries like the Shadevari and the red pyramids of Ascore (which I *had* a question about, but found another scroll on the matter featuring my three favourite letters: NDA), I have one simple RW question:

Ed, are you *sure* your last name isn't Machiavelli?

(Second edit: On second thought, it's much more likely that your middle name is Niccolo... more subtle and devious that way.)

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 09 Oct 2008 05:40:07
Go to Top of Page

Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1861 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  05:16:59  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message
I've been reading a few historical fictions and the quasi-medieval Song of Ice and Fire recently. It made me think about a few things.

1) Tourneys and jousts. Where are they popular? Do they work similarly to the medieval ones or are they more Realms-specific? Does the winner keep the loser's mount and arms (or allow him to ransom them), making them a good way for a fine knight to earn an income?

2) Ransom. Is this done at all in the Realms and if so, where? I'm speaking of the medieval custom of ransoming noble captives and knights taken in battle, of course. I'm specifically interested in the customs of the Vast, Chondath and Sembia; but all lore is good.

Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2008 :  06:48:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
I think of Ed more as Rasputin, the mad monk.

A man who knows when to plot like Machivelli... and when to get down and party.

Edit: I think the similar beards also helps.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Oct 2008 17:48:34
Go to Top of Page

Kamuraki
Seeker

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2008 :  00:26:53  Show Profile  Visit Kamuraki's Homepage Send Kamuraki a Private Message
This is not so much a question, as it is something that made me think of Ed's novels. I give you Bill Bailey's Medieval Porn Music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtNEDQZS-I

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

- Douglas Adams
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 86 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2022 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000