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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 15:43:42
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Menelvagor, let me try to tackle some of your followup queries.
As Ed said, ALL of the Chosen are more or less insane, thanks to all they've seen and done in Mystra's service (outliving not just all the people they knew and their loved ones, but outliving cities and countries!) and from the stresses of holding Mystra's divine power. El may not SEEM that way, but that doesn't mean he isn't. As for the voices in El's head, the questions you pose are very good ones, but are specifically NDA: they are what you'll have to wait until Ed's next novel (after this December's THE SWORD NEVER SLEEPS, which deals with we Knights) to get answers for.
Now, as to your specific queries about what El and the Seven did during the "Hundred Years of Chaos," and what are they up to now, the answer to the second is: whatever your DM desires (until Ed's next novel says more), and the answer to the first is: Wizards has decided as policy not to "fill in" those hundred years (except as invdividual DMs want to, in their own campaigns, and if you glance at Ed's "typical Harper's year" in the old CODE OF THE HARPERS 2e sourcebook, you'll begin to get some glimmer of just how MUCH any Chosen "gets up to," in any year.
As for what now prevents pregnancy: we strongly suspect that some of the Chosen are barren, either genetically or because of the ravages of the silver fire (spellfire, a slightly weaker variant of the silver fire, SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT FOR THE SHANDRIL TRILOGY, SKIP TO END OF NEXT SET OF BLOCK CAPS IF YOU WANT TO AVOID SPOILER [[slew Shandril's unborn child within her when she used it to heal Narm]] END SPOILER ALERT coursing through them over the years.
And yes, published Realms lore (notably the end of ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER) has revealed that Elminster has sired many children, some few of which he may not know about (as with Narnra). Very few of them have any "special" magical powers, because that's where Mystra stepped in to control things. Most of them have the ability to wield the Art, because that's why (increasing the numbers of magic-using mortals) Mystra allowed conceptions from El's lovemaking in the first place.
Now, I'm not Ed, but every one of the answers I've given here is based on years of talking with Ed, working with Ed on Realmslore, playing in his "home" Realms campaign, and learning from other answers he's crafted to questions posed here at Candlekeep.
love,
THO
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 16:37:19
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So why would Alasarra seem more cracked than El? Does El hide it better? (Not that he isn't cracked... I mean, just all the womanizing when you're such an old man... and look like one... and the stress from sex-changing at least 4 times...)
Maybe in the next Spin a Yarn, we can get a view on the Simbul pregnant? (If she can kiss pigs and be nice to Red Wizards, she can be pregnant!)
If it's the other way around (El is taking care of Alasarra), what made the Simbul crack (this time)? |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 17:36:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
Oh, a new question: SInce Mystra isn't there anymore, and they've lost their Chosen powers, what prevents her from getting pregnant (aside from the fact that Cracked Powerful Chosen+Pregnant Woman=Total Destruction)?
Mundane contraceptives. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 19:32:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Whooo, things get a little rough around here when I'm not looking.  I've heard of major snippage here at the Keep before, but . . .
CylverSaber, worry not; Ed did get your question and will get to it. When he or I respond to later questions first, it's either due to the nature of the request or because we happen to have the answer handy (e.g. Ed has recently been doing Realms work or looking something up for another Realms writer that involved dredging up lore that can now be used right away in the answer, rather than being hunted for).
GoCeraf, I recall that Ed had no say at all in the change in El's portrayal from "near- Gandalf" to "Sean Connery carrying the Lion Sword." For the record, Ed likes both portrayals, and made the point at the time of that change that El magically controls the way he looks all the time, anyway, and is a consummate actor, so whatever the "real El" is, we may not be seeing it.
In the original Realms campaign, The Simbul is almost always disguised as a bird, fencepost, snake, spider, kitten, or whatever; she moves about the Realms in other shapes, spying on things, more than she's in her own shape.
love to all,
THO
No say at all?
I dunno, if I spent years developing a character, I'd be a bit irked if someone decided to cut off half his hair, give him a shave, and throw a sword at him. Don't get me wrong; I didn't start playing the game until 3E, so perhaps it's my familiarity with El the 3rd that makes him my preferred version, but still.
Skeptic, I was unaware that El is back to his old appearance. I guess that, given a century, even an immortal's hair and bear will grow back.
Here's a new question, then.
I've noticed, through my reading of the novels and spending some time looking over the "letters" to be found in the campaign setting books and what have you, that the spoken language seems decidedly different between the earlier editions and the more modern ones. Examples would be a prevalence of "ye" and "nay" and other such "old fantasy" language, whereas nowadays I've read novels that have phrases like "I guess" and "whatever."
It seems to be a pretty drastic change in speech, considering the relatively short time span between the various editions (not including 4th, as I have not had the opportunity to look into FR4e yet). So, is this a matter of the novels simply mainstreaming themselves to a wider audience, an actual Renaissance of the language, or is it that "I guess" shows up in Common and "'Tis plausible" shows up in regional languages? |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 21:20:58
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Hello again, all.
GoCeraf, the change in language was deliberate, and started when TSR acquired the Realms, and started changing the archaic, quasi-medieval speech Ed was using for his older and more rural characters to a more-accessible-to-modern-American-readers style.
The shift was speeded up with the hundred-year-time-jump, which deliberately introduced "hours" and "minutes" into the Realms to make things even more "familiar" to modern-day new readers and gamers.
Jim Lowder has often told the tale of his first job at TSR being to "fix" the dialogue Ed put into SPELLFIRE, using the example of a male character asking someone else if they thought he was a lecher: "Think ye me a codloose winker?"
Me, I LOVE that language, particularly when Ed spoke it while portraying a male character trying to seduce one of my female characters. Makes me go all soft and fluttery-buttery inside. 
However, that may just be me.
LOTS of things make me go fluttery-buttery inside.
love,
THO |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 21:40:06
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| THO, You're not the only one to love that language. And they brought hours/minutes into the game? Dear god, why? Siiiigh, I know... To get more players. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 22:09:29
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Hello all,
Which civilization crafted the first Weirdstones and are any in the hands of any NPC in your mind in 1370's? Any lore on how one must go about creating such an item, any lore on this item period?
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 22:25:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello again, all.
GoCeraf, the change in language was deliberate, and started when TSR acquired the Realms, and started changing the archaic, quasi-medieval speech Ed was using for his older and more rural characters to a more-accessible-to-modern-American-readers style.
The shift was speeded up with the hundred-year-time-jump, which deliberately introduced "hours" and "minutes" into the Realms to make things even more "familiar" to modern-day new readers and gamers.
Jim Lowder has often told the tale of his first job at TSR being to "fix" the dialogue Ed put into SPELLFIRE, using the example of a male character asking someone else if they thought he was a lecher: "Think ye me a codloose winker?"
Me, I LOVE that language, particularly when Ed spoke it while portraying a male character trying to seduce one of my female characters. Makes me go all soft and fluttery-buttery inside.
However, that may just be me.
LOTS of things make me go fluttery-buttery inside.
love,
THO
My, you're quick.
Was there anything keeping Mr. Greenwood from using minutes and hours in the first place? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for creativity of any perspective (be it top down or bottom up), but that would have thrown me, especially considering I was just a kiddie during 2E's peak and not even born during the days of 1E.
I certainly remember reading that miles were not always a part of the Realms, so I suppose there's no reason this couldn't extend to other units of measurement, as well. What about weight and temperature and all that? In the tavern, did they still call it a pint?
As for going fluttery-buttery, I need a soda and some hot wings for that. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
Edited by - GoCeraf on 26 Aug 2008 22:26:40 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 23:14:35
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Measurements for food, cloting and shelter would probably be in place. Foodstuffs, especially baked goods, require sometimes specific measurements, whereas buildings and such could be "15 hands high" where hands is an estimate of height.
Time would be more relative, since the average commoner would only need to know Dawn, Morning, Noon, Afternoon, Dusk, Evening, Night and Midnight as points of reference (which can all be deduced from the position of the sun or moon). Minutes and hours aren't really needed since the common person would have no way to standardize them (besides counting, and after 100, it gets pretty tough to keep going...). Distances are likewise, in that they only needed to know how long it took to get to town, how far away was the treeline, etc. Miles and such could be used, but more than often aren't. What's easier, telling a stranger to go 4.5 miles west on their horse and turn left or to turn left at the big oak with the lightning scar?
Remember, minutes are measured by clocks and watches. Even in our world, clocks didn't really come into their own until the 1400s and pocket watches still took a couple of centuries after that. It wasn't until the last century that the common person started wearing wristwatches. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 23:30:27
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Hello again, all. Here’s Ed, in his promised answer to Marek’s query: “Why do Red Wizards wear red?”
Ed replies:
Hi, Marek. Here, paraphrased from my notes (I’m omitting details still germane to play in my ongoing “home” Realms campaign), is the lore you seek:
Long ago (around 860 DR), in what would become Thay, when its various independent Mulhorandi cities were being welded together into little kingdoms (“tharches”) by war-leaders (“tharchions”) using not just warriors and slaves but wizards and monsters controlled by mages, various wizards started to form cliques for mutual protection (i.e. to rise above being ordered about, tortured, blackmailed, and otherwise controlled by tharchions and their bodyguards and champions).
In order to make these groups seem grander, more mysterious, and less of a direct response (and threat) to the tharchions, the wizards insisted they weren’t forming “cabals” but rather “orders” in response to divine directives from the deities of magic. They further insisted that the gods would afflict non-wielders of the Art with various dooms and curses if they tried to eradicate or control any order, and that in any case the nature of what made an orders couldn’t really be understood by those not gifted with the ability to wield the Art, just as the mysteries of forging certain metals and alloys so as to have certain properties were beyond the understanding of those not trained as smiths - - though ANYONE could be taught the secrets of smithing, whereas those unable to wield the Art could not comprehend the secrets of the Art. “Ye must feel it, to know it,” was a famous quote by the early Thayan mage, Alaerdrus.
Alaerdrus founded the Order of the Ordraukh (in early Thayan speech, “ordraukh” is the name of the beast today usually termed a “fire lizard”), who were viewed as wise but miserly, greedy, and cantankerous old men. They were all of these things, being exclusively mature and elderly human males who wore dark robes, jealously guarded their spell-knowledge, and sought high prices for casting the mightiest spells, so as to (in the words of Order member Nalriekus Rauntoun) “cool the bloodlust of each rising tharchion.”
The Order of the Ordraukh began to bicker over the wisdom and ethics of using magic to compel or ally with or work through various “fiends” (otherplanar creatures); disagreements that were ultimately to sunder it.
Long before that fate befell the Order, however, they acquired rivals, including the Order of the Moonflame (Art-gifted females enraged by being shut out of the Order of the Ordraukh, but even more prone to fierce internal battles; the Moonflame was a high mountain waterfall where they first met, that “blazes” on clear nights with reflected moonlight), and the Order of the Alaunklar (named for their symbol, the three-legged table brazier used in many Thayan spells), who saw themselves as young upstarts defying the cautious “let’s keep things mysterious” teachings of the Order of the Ordraukh.
For some three decades various minor orders rose and fell, appearing and collapsing monthly, until at last the Order of the Ordraukh was destroyed in an orgy of spell-duels, murderings of member by member, and raids upon the weakened survivors by rival non-Order mages seeking the magic items and spell-tomes of the old Ordraukh wizards.
Most of the tumult among all of these orders was a matter of simple lust for power, but it was influenced by certain deities desiring more widespread use of magic, who used dream-visions and servitors gifting wizards in what would become Thay with spells; and by those in power in Mulhorand, who wanted to use the wizards to govern the increasingly-unruly tharchions; and by a few Mulhorandi who saw the orders as cover for, and dupes of, their own plottings to rise to power in Mulhorand - - or form their own breakaway realm.
One of the latter “secret societies” covertly adopted a minor junior order, the Order of the Red Wizards, by mind-controlling its founder, the wizard Ulzunder.
The Red Wizards wore blood-red robes because Ulzunder liked to “bathe in the blood of virgins” (that is, magically sacrificed young, strong, and virginal males and females of human, elven, and half-elven bloodlines) as part of his experimentations toward achieving youthful vigor, lifelong - - and wanted some means of readily concealing bloodstains. He wore blood-red robes, and so did they, many of them attempting the same evil processes Ulzunder indulged in (with the same limited success; they managed to keep joints supple, skin elastic, and muscles strong, but could do nothing about the slow decline of organs and mental faculties; the sharing of his observations and experimentations was Ulzunder’s main inducement to other mages to join him in his order).
Ulzunder was brilliant but insane, even before the wizards of the secret society (who called themselves “the Thael,” after a fanciful beast in Mulhorandi folklore who changes those it doesn’t devour, and so is the Bringer of violent Change) started meddling with his mind, and his Red Wizards were ruthless but subtle; they preferred secrecy in their dealings to all else, fearing retribution from more powerful mages and Mulhorandi rulers and priesthoods.
The spells and manipulations of the Thael allowed the Red Wizards to rise swiftly in real power (if not, at first, in reputation), and a certain Szass Tam (then living under another name, “Tarloth Narmandur,” and hiding much of his magical knowledge and adventurer-assembled magic items, said adventurers perishing by his hand once they brought him magic “enough” that he deemed them dangerous for what they may have held back from him) saw their power and drive, and resolved to covertly control them and so rise with them. He began by merely spying upon the Red Wizards, and soon became aware they were being manipulated from within.
Szass Tam patiently watched until the strife surrounding power struggles within Mulhorand and the founding of Thay thinned the ranks of the Thael, before slowly and subtly supplanting them (destroying one after another, and waiting for other foes to destroy many of them, between his murders) as the “unseen hand” that controlled the Red Wizards.
Ulzunder is known to have died a spectacular death fighting off four rival wizards in the fledgling Thay, but a handful of senior members of the Red Wizards may survive, if they achieved lichdom after fleeing to other planes (after they became aware of Szass Tam’s tightening control).
So saith Ed. And there you have it! Essential Realmslore, scribes!
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 23:35:56
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GoCeraf, Ed had his own terms for all weights and measures. Remember, he created the Realms as a setting for his own fantasy fiction, well before the Dungeons & Dragons game existed. He was just a (very young) fantasy author, writing things the way he wanted them to be. He finds modern real-world terms jarring in a fantasy setting (example: one dragon-rider to another, who's riding a different species: "Get good mileage from that?"), and so crafted his own.
The commercial needs of TSR, to make the Realms more accessible to gamers playing D&D, Ed quite understands and has never fought against. He DOES prefer gentle, subtle, elegant terminology rather than use of the latest (and quickly dated) slang.
And, yes, Phil Athans introduced accurate water clocks in HIS Realms fiction, and therefore possible widespread use of "hours" and "minutes" over the century timejump, as a deliberate change or evolution, to make WotC Realms fiction and the game environment yet more welcoming to novice gamers and readers.
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 26 Aug 2008 23:37:33 |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 01:14:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
GoCeraf, Ed had his own terms for all weights and measures. Remember, he created the Realms as a setting for his own fantasy fiction, well before the Dungeons & Dragons game existed. He was just a (very young) fantasy author, writing things the way he wanted them to be. He finds modern real-world terms jarring in a fantasy setting (example: one dragon-rider to another, who's riding a different species: "Get good mileage from that?"), and so crafted his own.
The commercial needs of TSR, to make the Realms more accessible to gamers playing D&D, Ed quite understands and has never fought against. He DOES prefer gentle, subtle, elegant terminology rather than use of the latest (and quickly dated) slang.
And, yes, Phil Athans introduced accurate water clocks in HIS Realms fiction, and therefore possible widespread use of "hours" and "minutes" over the century timejump, as a deliberate change or evolution, to make WotC Realms fiction and the game environment yet more welcoming to novice gamers and readers.
love,
THO
Ah, that would answer it. I was unaware that the Realms existed as a fantasy setting before existing as a DnD setting. Are there any elements to his original setting that never saw the light of day in the roleplaying aspect? How much of it was similar to how it is now (roll of the years, people and places, what have you). |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 01:41:38
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Methinks that all those people who didn't like the old FR because there was "too much lore to study" now found a new home and a new way of avoiding having to do research. 
Ed (through THO) has already said he can't really answer 4e FR questions, at least not until after the release of the Player's Guide.
Please respect the answer you got.
Also, many of the answers people are looking for are in the FRCG, and WotC would probably prefer you buy that and not get all your answers for free through Ed.
And as for Elminster's look - the robes and 'Sagely appearance' is for when he's just kickin' back in Shadowdale, and amounts to same thing as someone not bothering to change out of their 'sleep-clothes' when they just plan on 'laying around the house'. His '3e appearance' is really his traveling garb, for when he has to make his periodic appearances at official functions, like when meeting with Cormyr's War Wizards, Senior Harpers, or the masked Lords of Waterdeep (and is also why his hair is neater then, as well - it isn't cut, he just wears in a pony-tail tucked into his cape to he doesn't look like such an 'unruly madman').
Despite what you may see in cartoons, REAL people DO change their clothes, and look different from one year to the next, and from one point in their lives to the next.
Think of it as the difference between what you wear to work, and what you wear on the weekends (when you're not doing anything at all). Both looks apply to the Old Mage, so neither is 'incorrect'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Aug 2008 04:08:46 |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 02:24:51
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Dons +3 hat of condescension warding...
To be fair, there's a notable difference between getting a haircut or changing your clothes and undergoing a change in character design. To quote THO, who likely quoted someone else, he went from "near-Gandalf" to "Sean Connery with the Lion Sword."
It was more than just a change in art work. Those new players (like me, back in '03) who cracked open the FRCG for the first time and saw the mischievous grin on the Old Mage's face likely got an entirely different impression than those who saw the cover artwork for Realms of Magic back in '95.
As for the questions that might show up in the new FRCG, I think that's a little suspect. Most of the questions I've seen on the boards are elaboration questions, not straight-answer queries. As for how WotC might feel about Mr. Greenwood talking about these things, he clarifies when an NDA is blocking his way. And this, from candlekeep.com's "about this site" section:
quote:
The Candlekeep web site (and domain name) are owned and developed by Jay L Redfern as a resource for material for the Forgotten Realms campaign setting of the AD&D Role-playing game produced by TSR Inc.
This website is not an official TSRWotC site, nor is it associated or endorsed by TSR IncWizards of the Coast. Candlekeep is a non-profit, privately owned and operated web site.
So it's really up to Mr. Greenwood. Honestly, the man created an entire world. You think he doesn't like every little question about it?
All the best. Hope I didn't come off as a cartoon-lovin' brat. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
Edited by - GoCeraf on 27 Aug 2008 02:26:19 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 03:41:52
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Hi, Charles.
According to the Realms agreement (which Wizards can't modify without negotiating with Ed), the answer to your question is: yes.
However, Ed is more "out of the design loop" than in the past, and for practical reasons doesn't want to contradict Wizards-generated Realmslore every time he speaks. Hence his caution re. timing, until he's seen all the printed 4e FR lore.
Though there were a few slipups over the years, TSR made certain Ed saw draft text of ALL Realms stuff as soon as it was in "final" form, which is how things are still supposed to work . . . but aren't at the moment. For instance, Ed should be shown each Realmslore column before it sees print, not so he can "approve" it, but so that he can point out consistency problems and avoid generating consistency problems himself, because he isn't aware of the appearing lore.
So Ed is being cautious, because more damage is done to the "shared suspension of disbelief" (enjoying the setting we all know is fictional, together) by contradictions than by anything else, and avoiding doing damage is Ed's paramount interest.
Right now, Ed's family has descend on him for a visit, he's struggling to finish a novel, and has umpteen projects on the go, as usual.
Me, I'm waiting impatiently for THE SWORD NEVER SLEEPS.
love,
THO |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 04:27:19
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Sorry for sounding 'condescending', but when I hear a question like "tell me what eight people did for a hundred years", my eyes begin to roll. 
Especially when the fates of all those people were just discussed on the previous pages, except for two that Ed has already said as much about as NDAs can possibly allow.
Just like the 4e Realms, 'Harping' is no longer in vogue.
Speaking of which, a lot of 4e questions are being aimed his way, which he has already (quite politely) said he was avoiding answering for the time being. We probably know just as much as he does, and if there is info missing from 4e FRCG, its probably because they (WotC) are not ready to sell it to us yet. <smirk>
And I have probably seen at least 50 different pics of Elminster, and he looks different nearly every time. You get used to it after awhile - especially when dealing with a wiley, 1000-year old Mage who puts on deceptions the way others do an old pair of boots. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Aug 2008 04:28:39 |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 04:36:24
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Haha, no harm no foul.
Actually, the protection from condescension was because I thought the first half of your post was directed at me (I didn't think that I was asking 4e questions, but I was worried nonetheless). Similarly, I was worried you thought I was just being lazy by asking questions here. The 'cartoons' comment was just the mean icing on the mean cake. 
As I've said before, though I by no means suspect you to have known this, I've got less experience with the Realms than most people who have been on the boards for at least three years. That said, the only pics of Elminster I've seen are the 3E one, the Realms of Magic one, and a few others for the more recent novels that tend to follow the FRCG version.
All the best. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 06:24:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
GoCeraf, Ed had his own terms for all weights and measures.
Any chance of seeing some of these, my Lady? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 07:26:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
GoCeraf, Ed had his own terms for all weights and measures. Remember, he created the Realms as a setting for his own fantasy fiction, well before the Dungeons & Dragons game existed. He was just a (very young) fantasy author, writing things the way he wanted them to be. He finds modern real-world terms jarring in a fantasy setting (example: one dragon-rider to another, who's riding a different species: "Get good mileage from that?"), and so crafted his own.
The commercial needs of TSR, to make the Realms more accessible to gamers playing D&D, Ed quite understands and has never fought against. He DOES prefer gentle, subtle, elegant terminology rather than use of the latest (and quickly dated) slang.
And, yes, Phil Athans introduced accurate water clocks in HIS Realms fiction, and therefore possible widespread use of "hours" and "minutes" over the century timejump, as a deliberate change or evolution, to make WotC Realms fiction and the game environment yet more welcoming to novice gamers and readers.
love,
THO
As I recall, I asked Ed for information on those weights and measures sometime last year. Consider it my "please answer this question"-request following your post the other day asking scribes to nominate outstanding lore queries they wanted answered.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 07:36:00
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My lady, if Ed can't answer m questions, can you at least say so? I am not trying to criticise, and I understand answering all these questions must be hard work, but my need for information is vital. I must know as soon as possible! Please! Tell me what happened! I beg you!
(Okay, I'm being overly dramatic... it's just because I have a thirst for knowledge... that's not a bad thing, is it?) |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Marek
Seeker
Italy
52 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 09:46:20
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OMG,
that was a real gift, I'm sooooooo grateful for the Thay-lore!
my fellow players at the online shard will be amazed when I'll bring them all that info!
Keep it flowing if you have some more, I'll never get enough of Thay-lore.
Thank you very very very very much!
Ok I have more questions now:
I read that in the past some Red Wizards attempted to attack Evermeet. Anything more specific about it? Thanks!
Oh by the way. What would be the general relationship between sun elves and Thayans? Would a sun elf buy anything in a Thayan enclave? |
Edited by - Marek on 27 Aug 2008 10:26:56 |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 12:00:04
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| Oh! Another question I forgot. Why don't El and The Simbul marry? Why are they content to remain lovers? In fact, all the Chosen I remember (except Laeral&Khelben, and Dove) are unmarrried, even if they have (like Alustriel - 12 sons, I think, and some daughters not metioned), more than 10 children |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 14:10:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
My lady, if Ed can't answer m questions, can you at least say so?
Okay, time to brush off this quote from two and a half years ago...
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Oh, Ed knows that, all right.
His problem is threefold:
1. Total lack of time. Ed is actively writing or editing SIX projects (plus yours) right now, with another eleven sitting on his desk staring mutely at him, waiting. This means he just CAN’T go off into the basement (or the library of diskettes and Zip disks in his study, either), looking up older Realmslore. It also means he often has to drop everything to deal with emergencies (and the recent WotC layoffs have spawned a lot of those). Ed loves to answer your questions, but he’s as busy as the head of any major company or country - - without having any staff to support him. That means some of the larger-scope questions, or the really, really obscure points, just have to wait.
2. The minefield of constantly-shifting NDAs, and unfolding WotC and Paizo projects and articles Ed is aware of, but can’t publicly talk about. And doesn’t want to screw up. Many scribes ask about matters that a lot of Realms fans have wanted “cleared up” long ago. Other scribes ask about interesting things unfolding in recent books (e.g. the Shadovar). Still others ask about basics (agricultural practices, land-law). All of these things SHOULD be answered, and Ed wants to, but often other folks are already at work on answers, or MIGHT answer them as their novel or game sourcebook tromps through relevant real estate, or uses relevant NPCs. So Ed is duty-bound (and legally bound) to keep quiet. Sometimes even admitting that he’s keeping quiet will tip off Realms fans about something in the future that shouldn’t be revealed yet. So he waits…and waits…
3. Rules queries that shouldn’t be directed to Ed in the first place. You know, the “let’s use Ed’s opinion as a weapon in my ongoing argument about X” requests.
4. Questions about the gods, ditto. Yes, Ed created the great majority of deities specific to the FR setting. Yes, he detailed them, and provided spells for them. No, he’s never had the chance to put into print their prayers and rituals properly, or what daily life is like both for a humble priest and for an ambitious upperpriest in the upper echelons of church hierarchy. Yes, he wants to. No, he can’t move on this without WotC cooperation. And everyone, from other fiction writers to WotC designers to every FR fan, has their own, different - - often fiercely different - - ideas of what’s “right” and “true” about the gods. To Ed, most of this (arguing about the Dawn Cataclysm, for example, or Eilistraee) is just like arguing about the weather: fun (when it doesn’t turn nasty), but ultimately useless to the roleplaying experience (mortals can never know the truth, so the truth doesn’t matter: what matters is what priests and fiathful worshippers IN THE REALMS think). And so on. Yes, these are basics I’m reiterating, but it’s time to repeat them for all. Ed has a huge electronic file of ALL the queries not yet fully answered that have been posed in this thread. Not one gets forgotten, and Ed tries to answer one a day no matter how busy he is. So he’ll get to them, unless the gods take him from us first. Promise.
(No matter how lovingly I have to persuade him. And you know how lovingly THAT can be.)
love to all,
THO
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 14:18:13
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| Oh! Sorry! It's just that other questions were answered, so I thought the lady didn't see it! |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 15:09:36
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THO,
Would Ed be interested in having an assistant/indentured servant/slave that would work for mere scraps and could help him in various degrees of searching and cataloging Realmslore?
I can send my resume with a bribe, if that would help!
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I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 15:32:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
Oh! Sorry! It's just that other questions were answered, so I thought the lady didn't see it!
Here's another tidbit from the Lady Hooded One that should help you to understand how the Q&A process works with Ed:-
"Ed did get your question and will get to it. When he or I respond to later questions first, it's either due to the nature of the request or because we happen to have the answer handy (e.g. Ed has recently been doing Realms work or looking something up for another Realms writer that involved dredging up lore that can now be used right away in the answer, rather than being hunted for)."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 15:42:32
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| Thank you very much! I am enlightened! One must pursue knowledge, and make mistakes to gain it ! (or some such wise saying of some old sage...) |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Liliella
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 16:13:21
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Hi Ed and THO,
I’ve had a hunt around to see if the answers to these questions have already been given, but I’m no master of the search function, and haven’t come across anything, so forgive me if they have been answered already. I’ll also mention that I’m still playing 3e and haven’t read anything on 4e yet, so my queries relate to that, and I don’t know whether any of the deities mentioned are gone in the new Realms.
I’m aware that you are a little wary of providing too much detail with regards to religious ceremonies in the Realms, and that the post by Wooly Rupert a few back mentioned that questions about the gods were difficult to answer. Having said that, I’ve seen a couple of similar questions to this answered, and so I was wondering if you could provide some information on wedding ceremonies that might be held by clerics of the following deities: Sune, Chauntea, Lliira and Lathander. What format do they take? Do the participants wear any special clothing? Are they held at particular times of day or night? How do wedding guests participate?
My other musing was on ceremonies that might be held after the birth of a child, similar to our real-world christenings. Are there such things as blessings or naming ceremonies for infants in the Realms? And if so, do they vary from deity to deity, and how would the chosen deity affect that child’s affinity with them in the future?
Thanks in advance, and feel free to ignore this if it falls under ‘questions that are just too awkward to answer’.
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2008)
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