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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26819 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2008 :  19:34:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
I'm assuming it was two different jobs, myself.

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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
774 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2008 :  21:12:02  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message
In all reality, no. I have never thought her a stripper. I really did think law enforcment until this last question. I have a friend as an Illioins state trooper, and one of the questions that they asked him was if he played D&D. I think he would have been disqualified if he did. And with Lady Hooded not discussing her job, I thought along the same lines.

That is until the honey. Now I am clueless.
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
774 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2008 :  21:13:31  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message
I figured it out. BEEKEEPER.

Hmmmmmm. Maybe not.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31394 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2008 :  23:41:25  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Okay, okay... let's keep this scroll focused on Ed's Realmslore.

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Nevorick
Seeker

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2008 :  02:15:57  Show Profile  Visit Nevorick's Homepage Send Nevorick a Private Message
Lady THO,

I have a simple question question for Ed. Can he share any information regarding Gorauna and the Thronestrife? I know that this was (or still is?!? ) NDA. I patiently waited for the lineage of Kings to be released in the Grand History of the Realms. It was my main reason to purchase the book. If the subject still lies in the dreaded bog of NDA, I shall withdraw and await for any history of Cormyr's royals to be released in the hazy future.

"What happens in Waterdeep, stays in Waterdeep."
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

3231 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2008 :  02:26:21  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message
Question for Ed:

Would you ever consider releasing maps and information, perhaps in a book, about your home Forgotten Realms campaign?

Take a journey of exploration with Dalor Darden at our Ravenlore Press Fan Page as he explores the World of Ark

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maransreth
Seeker

Australia
73 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2008 :  05:06:43  Show Profile  Visit maransreth's Homepage  Click to see maransreth's MSN Messenger address Send maransreth a Private Message
I couldn't find anything about this when searching, so thought to ask here. Question came about when doing parts of the house that needed work, especially the nursery.

What deities do the average craftsperson venerate? For example painters, carpenters, bricklayers, etc.
Does it depend upon region, vocation, etc?
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1069 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2008 :  20:31:25  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Okay, okay... let's keep this scroll focused on Ed's Realmslore.


Oh come on. You have a great bunch of information-obsessed people in here. There's no way that an uncertainty like this wouldn't make them all come rushing out like hounds, sniffing for more info.

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4834 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2008 :  23:00:45  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Ahem. Hello, all.
Not wanting to distract further from Ed's Realmslore, let me just add the following, by way of explanation.
No, I am not a stripper, exotic dancer, or for that matter prostitute. Yes, I have (happily) POSED as all of those at various times, as part of my job, which is indeed, as althen speculated, "some sort of law enforcement."
The honey situation involved getting a small but vitally necessary item out of several cramped and unfamiliar rooms that had been doused in honey leaking from a tank. Nudity doesn't bother me, but I saw no need to ruin clothes, weaponry, expensive tools, perfectly good lingerie, etc., so I stripped and did the search. The lickers were colleagues whom I invited to help me clean up enough to get dressed again, afterwards; their enthusiastic and wholly professional assistance I greatly appreciated (no, none of them was Gene Simmons, but in my impartial and partially uninformed judgement, some of them could give him er, stiff competition in certain oral activities).
One of them did blush for months afterwards, every time he saw honey. :}
But oh, it took a lot of shampoo to get my hair clean, even after sacrificing a cheap hair pick to just physically stripping away as much honey as possible.

Now, to keep this Realms related: dalor's query as to Ed someday releasing a book re. his home Realms campaign: he would love to, doesn't know if he'd ever have the time to do so, can't legally do so without permission from Wizards of the Coast (and they would probably have to be the publishers), and in the days before they bought the Realms, Ed released several such "Player Packs," which were given out free to participants in his library campaigns, forming the basis of "what they knew" about Cormyr or the Dales or Waterdeep or the Sword coast North, when play began. All were Ed-illustrated, maps-included photocopied 8.5"x11" pages stapled together, and tended to run some 60 pages in length, typed single-spaced with an old Underwood typewrite that had quite a small typeface. Ah, those were the days . . . (I've seen samples of each of them.)

love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 23 Mar 2008 23:04:02
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
781 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2008 :  23:07:24  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Umm . . . does this mean it's too late to suggestively speculate about how THO got covered in honey at work?
I have several theories that could make for at least okay novels, if "Ed Greenwood Presents" is interested . . .
(See, Sage? Realms-related! Really!)

BB
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4834 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2008 :  23:23:04  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Blueblade, dear, it's NEVER too late to suggestively speculate.
Lots of writers - - and even "sort of law" enforcers like me - - are ALWAYS interested in floods of suggestive (even salacious) ideas. Trust me.

Or to put it more appropriately:

I lean forward, letting just the tips of me brush you, whisper-soft, so as to be able to breathe gently in your ear:

Trust me.

And with a swift, daring dart of the tip of my tongue, I am gone.



Ed Greenwood Presents, indeed . . .

love,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 23 Mar 2008 23:23:50
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dravenloft
Seeker

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2008 :  03:42:25  Show Profile  Visit dravenloft's Homepage  Send dravenloft an AOL message  Send dravenloft an ICQ Message  Click to see dravenloft's MSN Messenger address  Send dravenloft a Yahoo! Message Send dravenloft a Private Message
Lady THO -- I must say, it sounds as though it is a pleasure for anyone with the honour to know you. (take that as ye will ).

I have a question for Ed, or yourself if it ever came up in the games.
What do the children of the Heartlands favour for toys? Especially Cormyr and the Dales, but any of that entire region is likely to come up.

I mean I'm picturing little clockwork dragons and cuddly stuffed cutsified owlbears and that's where my brain starts to break. Just generally what're the little folk of the lands fond of playing with and likely to be given for gifts (this last part especially, I'm fond of Lliiran clerics and have a habit of getting St Nick whims).

Space Opera, Planetary Romance, Speculative Fiction and similar by me.
check it out at http://universal-nexus.com

Edited by - dravenloft on 24 Mar 2008 03:43:39
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Lord of Bones
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
77 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2008 :  13:53:46  Show Profile  Visit Lord of Bones's Homepage Send Lord of Bones a Private Message
Hi there

I have a question regarding something that's become something of a controversial topic in my current roleplaying group. First, I'll provide a little background.

Our game (with the DM rotating) is currently set in the Dragon Coast, namely Westgate. The party comprises of the usual bunch of misfits; an extremely mercenary elven swordsman, a very family oriented human rune wizardess / diabolist (not in the infernal sense) with a lot of charm, a young human paladin with a love back home, a highly religious holy relic thieving dwarf, an ex-priestess of Mykrul recently converted to the worship of Kelemvor (who isn't currently in play) and a human jongleur bard who is also a lay-worshiper of Oghma.

The jongleur fell in love with an NPC character quite a few game sessions ago (we do quite a lot of PC / NPC interaction), and there was much roleplayed flirting and wooing going on. The girl being flirted with was a 14 year old carer in the service of Ilmater in the city of Westgate. At that time, none of the players (or their respective characters) minded the age-gap particularly, and as the player was playing the scenes so well we even enjoyed it.

Since the party returned to Westgate however, the jongleur has expressed an interest in taking the relationship with the Ilmaterian further, even going so far as marriage, as shortly the party will be embarking on a great adventure where death is a very real possibility. This raised eyebrows from a couple, and a raised voice from one. As DM at this stage I remained impartial, although my character has leaning for, so I said I would seek advice from the creator himself.

Those against have argued that a character aged 26 shouldn't be romancing a girl of 14, not simply because of the age-gap but because of her actual age. In our society 14 is obviously an age slightly lower than the legal age of consent for such things. Kudos to the players; they've given their characters arguments. The paladin doesn't feel that the girl is old enough to make such a hefty decision and her parents would just be marrying her off to a wealthy adventurer. The dwarf is arguing that the jongleur has had a number of quick trysts in the past, and as the party is close to the girl and the temple of Ilmater, he doesn't want this relationship to be just another moonlight fling.

Those for have argued that in our Middle Ages and really up until around 200 or so years ago girls and boys (but mostly girls) were being married off at a young age. Mary apparently gave birth to Jesus at a young age (if that's your belief) and in Romeo & Juliet, Juliet is only a girl of 14 or 15. Again, their characters have arguments in-game. The elf (peculiarly for him) rationalises that love is love, and a girl in the service of Ilmater would've seen things that mature a person, and my ex-Myrkulyte believes that as life is a finite thing you should derive whatever enjoyment you can get from it. The wizardess basically thinks the jongleur should make his own choices.

I would like your opinion on what is morally right in Faerun, and I suppose on a smaller scale, Westgate. Are their legal issues regarding age of consent for such things in cities around the Forgotten Realms, and if so, do they vary from city to city? If so, could you detail some of the differences? Likewise I'm interested to know the belief of the Church of Ilmater on these things, as technically the girl is in His service, and any marriage would be officiated by a priest of Ilmater.

I don't think this will make or break the party, ultimately, but if has and will continue to provide some interesting conversations between characters.

Many thanks.

Matt

Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang

On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4834 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2008 :  14:53:21  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. This time I bring a lightning-swift response from Ed to the above “26-year-old PC jongleur marrying 14-year-old NPC” query by Lord of Bones.
Ed replies:


To begin, my praises for the roleplaying that landed everyone in this situation in the first place. And for the opinions being held by EVERYONE involved. :}
Let me go through the relevant points in the order your post raised them. The NPC is devoted to service to Ilmater; the NPC in charge of the temple in Westgate she belongs to may have established a local temple policy (faith interpretation; there is no church-wide dogma on this), one way or the other. That’s your “DM lever,” waiting in the wings, if you need it. And yes, to support the elf’s argument, in the service of Ilmater, the 14-year-old WOULD have seen things that would mature her enough to know precisely what she’s getting into; this would not be a seduction of the innocent or even merely naïve.

The desire to marry before going into danger (as expressed by the PC) is right on target and fitting as an attitude for someone dwelling in the Heartlands of the Realms.

The age-gap means NOTHING in the Realms, and precious little in most of our real-world cultures. (My own wife of almost thirty years happens to be 25 years older than I am, for instance. Anyone who disapproves of that is expressing their own opinion, which in the context of our relationship pales beside her opinion and mine.)

The age of the younger part of the partnership, the 14-year-old NPC, is another matter. The Realms, as I have said so many times before, is NOT our real world, and real-world attitudes and arguments should have no bearing. With that said, obviously the players in our D&D games ARE part of the real world, and have views shaped and informed by that, and so real-world attitudes and arguments DO have bearing. However, they have thus far been expressed perfectly, in-game: argument/debate among the PC adventurers, just as would indeed happen in the Realms IF the characters held varying attitudes; as you say, kudos to the players. The arguments you briefly identified for the paladin and the dwarf seem fine and valid to me - - assuming the paladin’s faith has been sufficiently detailed in-game already, and it’s not just “well, my opinion is that she isn’t old enough, and as a paladin I’m a good guy, and therefore right.” Remember, the faiths of the Realms, even for paladins, are NOT the same as modern Christianity.

The argument you cite for marrying off at young ages still holds true in many real-world societies today - - just not in “the West.” Children of both genders may be married off in infancy by families desiring to cement an alliance, land or property ownership, to establish a bond that ends a blood-feud, or for reasons of state/lineage. Juliet, in Shakespeare's play, was 13, yes, 13. In medieval times, many mothers were carrying their first children, or were even beyond that, at age 13 (facts borne out by many, many records, [BTW, in societies far more dominated by Christianity than our lives are today] so for those who’d like to disagree with this on some sort of moral grounds, don’t bother). So for those who base their idea of the Realms on our real-world “Middle Ages,” this wouldn't even be a debate at all. EXCEPT in situations where individuals who are personally involved (as all the PCs are, here) have conflicting opinions. The PCs who oppose this union on a “it’ll break up our team, or weaken you the male half of the pairing, and therefore wound us” have a perfectly valid viewpoint, Realms-wise. Any PC who objects on individual reasoning is merely roleplaying, and the setting allows the full range of views, so they can’t be said to be roleplaying badly.

However, what is “morally right” in Faerûn depends on various faiths (remember, unlike the monotheistic “worship God” setting most real-world players come from, in the Realms everyone “believes in” multiple gods, worships many at least in terms of appeasement, and only for clerics and paladins devotes themselves to just one deity, something many other people in the Realms deem “zealotry”); the “community standards” argument cited in many Western modern real-world legal cases would be: do whatever you want, it’s no one else’s business - - unless you happen to be flouting the wishes of one of our most powerful families, in which case we’ll find some other pretext for, or way of, stopping it (such as making the jongleur “vanish”). Corrupt, trade-before-all Westgate has no laws at all, or attitudes backing up such laws, prohibiting this union. Some cities and countries in the Realms DO have age-of-consent laws (hence the current Regency in Cormyr, for example) but Westgate isn’t one of them.

As I said earlier, the church of Ilmater does NOT have a faith-wide prohibition or even attitude against marriages (or, for that matter, unofficial sexual unions) involving young individuals; to appreciate and aid against human suffering, one must fully experience and understand all aspects of human life, not declare any parts of it “out of bounds.” However, the local high priest in Westgate MAY have formulated a local temple policy against such unions, for a specific historical reason, in your campaign (there isn’t one in the “official” Realms, or in my campaign, where Westgate is a morally rapacious, react-against-Cormyr, slavetrading and drug running and smuggling center; a marriage is essentially a trade and property agreement in Westgate, and therefore intrinsically good and desirable [as a pact mitigating against some of the daggerwork-in-alleys nightly violence]).

In short, you have a classic “roleplay it through” situation. Good luck, and I’d very much like to know how things turn out. This is one of those “no easy answer, and no Right way except the way you collectively hammer out” matters. No, there are no laws or attitudes in the official Realms denying this union. However, it obviously upset at least one player, so it’s something that all the players are going to have to come to some agreement on - - or suffer the damage to their collective relationship that will result.

There IS a “weasel way” route: the church of Ilmater could offer a “bonding” or “pairing” ceremony (equivalent to an “engagement”), wherein the couple publicly affirm their commitment (fidelity) to each other, but (in light of the peril the jongleur is about to face) don’t fully marry yet (i.e. so the 14-year-old isn’t soon married to a dead jongleur). You could have a priest of Ilmater NPC offer this to the PCs, and see what happens.

Again, fair fortune!


So saith Ed, creator of the Realms, Westgate, and the veneer of Ilmater (atop Fritz Leiber’s Issek). DO let us know how it turns out, won‘t you?
Thanks, and love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 24 Mar 2008 17:41:05
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4834 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2008 :  17:48:44  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Nevorick,
Ed tells me that the Thronestrife is still largely under NDA, but that a LITTLE more about Cormyr will soon be revealed in "an official manner and place," and that he will carefully check and see what he can and can't post here, in response to you. "Very early May" is his suspected timeframe for knowing that, unfortunately.
However, in my experience, the problem often lies in the broad "what can you tell me about" format of your query. Not with Ed, mind you; like all creatives, he loves having as free a hand as possible in answering you. Rather, the problem is with getting WotC permission/avoiding NDAs. Are there, perhaps, half a dozen or so very tightly focussed questions about the Thronestrife you could pose to Ed, here? "Yes/no" and "confirm/deny" and "am I right about this specific fact?" varieties, perhaps? This will really help Ed in seeing if he can skate around the NDAs, and give you a few specific answers and perhaps some strong hints. (The idea of NDAs is not to ruin the impact of forthcoming products, not to maliciously stonewall gamers wanting to fully enjoy the Realms they already play in.)
love,
THO
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Lord of Bones
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
77 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2008 :  20:09:14  Show Profile  Visit Lord of Bones's Homepage Send Lord of Bones a Private Message
Thank you both for the expedient and detailed response.

The next gaming session is in a couple of nights time, so I'll let you know what's decided.

In answer to your queries, the paladin is a follower of Helm, and although I don't know the Helmite view on these relationships I think the paladin point is more personal. He's a character that has a tendency to see the best in people, and despite the elf mercenary's argument that she's probably as cynical as they come, he will only identify the girl by her age and how 'innocent' she must be. And by the fact that his parents only allowed him to become engaged to his love in his 20th year.

I think I'll have to throw something into the game that shows the Ilmaterian as wise beyond her years, if he's going to be convinced.

In terms of religious focus we have followers of Sehanine Moonbow, Azuth, Helm, Vergadain, Myrkul (the priestess still holds out hope that He will return, as although her viewpoint on death and undeath has changed somewhat, she was raised to follow Myrkul's dogma), and of course Oghma. Only the paladin, priestess and jongleur are particularly fervent worshipers of a sole deity, as like you say, the vast majority of people will worship more than one.

Reading Faiths & Avatars and Demihuman Deities I tried to find something detailing each of these particular Gods dogma on love, companionship and so on, and probably due to their portfolios that part was lacking. I think that's why most of the characters have their own personal views rather than a church-officiated doctrine on this subject.

Saying that, I would very much appreciate any word that you may have specifically on marriages according to the faiths of Helm, Oghma and Myrkul / Kelemvor.

Sorry to shoot you with both barrels in one day.

Matt

Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang

On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think.
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

465 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2008 :  22:01:08  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Thanks for the lore all around.
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
348 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2008 :  11:18:30  Show Profile  Visit Na-Gang's Homepage Send Na-Gang a Private Message
Dear, Dear Ed

Can you give us some information about the current holder (and perhaps the previous holder(s)) of the Office of Diadar, Herald of Amphail?

Respectfully yours

Na-Gang
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1553 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2008 :  13:26:16  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message
Well met, most respected Lady Herald and Ed!

I can't remember if I've already asked this or not, but it relates to my questions about the small village of Drawn Swords. Namely, which sort of ruins, monsters, beasts, magical phenomena and other interesting things may be found in (the remains of) the Reaching Woods and Northdark Woods? Also, are there any elven communities or druidic circles in either of them?


"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
781 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2008 :  14:01:34  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Hi, THO, another quick question for Ed:

I've heard you were mightily impressed by the Eye of Flame mini from the forthcoming Dungeons of Dread set, at D&D Exp. Anything more you can say about this, Ed?
As in, impressed how?
BB
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2008 :  14:37:39  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage  Click to see AlorinDawn's MSN Messenger address Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
Ed,

I hope you enjoyed your "fishing from the car" time heh. Any plans on attending any other Cons than Gencon this year?

I just re-read The Code of the Harpers. Not only did I forget how good that sourcebook was, reading TCotH really highlighted the difference in many Realms products today in that the 1st & 2nd E books were far more lore heavy and did not nearly lean so hard on crunchy rules and "stat blocks" type entries.

Have you seen enough of the 4E stuff to guess if we will see a return to the lore heavy sourcebooks of yore, or a continuation of crunchfactor-X?

Currently reading: Eyes of The Dragon by Stephen King

Long live Sniffy Wigglebottom

Edited by - AlorinDawn on 25 Mar 2008 14:38:42
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4834 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2008 :  01:12:19  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. I bring a followup response from Ed to the followup post from Lord of Bones requesting marriage lore according to the faiths of Helm, Oghma, and Myrkul/Kelemvor. Ed replies:



No problem re. both barrels, Matt; happy to be of help. :}
You’re quite correct that there’s not much marriage lore for these faiths in print, so I’ve gone to my notes (augmented thanks to ongoing play in the home campaign since my time of hurling great screeds of them Julia Martin’s way, when F&A was in preparation), touched them up a bit in terms of rounding out arguments, and come up with the following:

The Church of Helm presumes to say nothing about who a faithful Helmite takes in marriage (being silent on matters of race, gender, age, and even blood relationship when partners are more distantly related than immediate birth-blood siblings - - so the wife of a dead brother could marry the husband of that brother’s sister, or even the dead brother’s father, without Church disapproval), but is VERY firm on fidelity and obligation to a living partner.
If a devout Helmite marries someone, they are expected to be faithful to that partner (kissing, hugging, caressing, and flirting with others is fine, but any adulterous acts of sexual intercourse are to be fully confessed to the partner sinned against, and clergy of a consecrated altar of the faith, as soon as possible, and any penance demanded performed).
There are no grounds for divorce in the Helmite faith, but any instance of adultery is grounds for withholding of sexual access by a partner for a year, and longer if penance is not fulfilled and the offender does not seek forgiveness from their partner. If such “transgressions” are frequent or numerous, any Helmite priest can choose to dissolve the union and pronounce a punishment upon the offender. In other words, the aggrieved partner can never successfully request divorce before any altar of Helm, but Helmite clergy can choose to end a marriage for “just cause.” In practice, this is only done when the aggrieved partner agrees to it.
If a devout Helmite marries someone, they are also expected to “guard” that partner. In other words, a couple who venerate Helm are to protect and defend each other, diligently watching over each other’s persons, goods, safety, and prospects, not merely rushing to aid when immediate danger threatens. This must be done regardless of personal feelings or other loyalties, but is not to be performed in such a way as to restrict the freedom to make life decisions of the protected partner (under the Helmite creed, a guarding spouse can’t lock their partner inside a home to prevent them “going outside into danger,” or dictate where they’ll go and who they’ll associate with under the guise of “keeping them safest”).
Marriage involves the exchanging of secret personal names (they may, but need not be, “truenames”) upon an altar of Helm. Thereafter, whenever one of those names is uttered by one of the partners, it will be heard by priests attending any altar of Helm (on the same plane), and with it will be imparted the approximate distance and direction of the utterer, plus an image of their face (current looks and condition); this alerts the Helmite clergy that one of the partners of a Helmite union is in dire need.

Beyond dictating that “true partners” should not keep lore-secrets from each other (in other words, anything important learned or deduced by either partner is to be shared with the other), and stressing the idea that the shared seeking after knowledge is one of the most holy and fulfilling strivings in a life, the Church of Oghma has little to say on the suitability or treatment of partners.
This paucity of dogma is due both to the nature of the deity’s portfolio and interests, and the fact that clergy of Oghma who dwell in an abbey or other Oghmanite religious community meet often with senior clergy, one-on-one, to discuss “seekings after knowledge” (in other words, senior clergy guide and advise junior clergy in an ongoing manner).
However, according to the Church of Oghma, only death can end a marriage (there’s a reason Oghma is known as “the Binder”). Many senior clergy of Oghma take the view that a resurrected person, of any faith, must “take up” any union that existed at the time of their death (they are alive again, so their marriage is, too). If they have remarried, they are lawfully now bound in two (or more!) unions, with all of the obligations that pertain to supporting partners. Infidelity is a sin, as is any deceit toward, or mistreatment of, one’s partner, but they are not to be used as a pretext for dissolution of a partnership. Rather, they are to be atoned for, and repetitions of such mistreatments dealt with through increasingly harsh punishments and Oghmanite oversight (to prevent increasing tyranny, deceit, and thefts within a marriage, and therefore any increase in the influence of Bane, Cyric, and Mask, Oghma’s chief foes).

Kelemvorite belief has nothing to say on the suitability or wooing of partners, or on marriages (other than that death DOES end any union, freeing both the living and the dead to move on, perhaps to new partners - - so a resurrected being has no obligation to return to a former partner, though many older clergy, raised in the Church of Myrkul, do advocate the undead or resurrected once-dead returning to the living, to awe or even slay them, and so extend Myrkul’s embrace to more souls). Church of Kelemvor doctrine would lead a priestess of Kelemvor to be sympathetic to any desire to be wed, especially if danger lurks for one or both partners, because death is seen as natural and inevitable, and that life should be full and rich for everyone before they die; if there’s a desire someone strives for, why not fulfill it, if possible, before death comes? The Church of Myrkul would be more neutral, for emphasis was placed on the influence and prominence of the dead (and undead) among the living, and both a marriage and a love affair shattered before marriage by death can serve as strong ties upon the living, to give the dead more power.

As of right now, that’s all I have relating to marriage for these faiths. I hope this is of some help.



So saith Ed. Creator of the Realms and Shaper of its deities. Who is probably doing battle with yet another snowstorm that’s raging through his neck of the woods right now. In between stints at the keyboard or behind the library desk.
love to all,
THO
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2008 :  01:50:01  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
However, according to the Church of Oghma, only death can end a marriage (there’s a reason Oghma is known as “the Binder”). Many senior clergy of Oghma take the view that a resurrected person, of any faith, must “take up” any union that existed at the time of their death (they are alive again, so their marriage is, too). If they have remarried, they are lawfully now bound in two (or more!) unions, with all of the obligations that pertain to supporting partners. Infidelity is a sin, as is any deceit toward, or mistreatment of, one’s partner, but they are not to be used as a pretext for dissolution of a partnership. Rather, they are to be atoned for, and repetitions of such mistreatments dealt with through increasingly harsh punishments and Oghmanite oversight (to prevent increasing tyranny, deceit, and thefts within a marriage, and therefore any increase in the influence of Bane, Cyric, and Mask, Oghma’s chief foes).


Very interesting indeed (all of it, that is, not just the bit I've quoted!)... However, I just want to clarify something...

From what you wrote, it seems Oghma supports the idea of polygamy (formal marriage to more than one partner), but infidelity is a sin. Is that right? So I assume, second or even third partners would have to be agreed upon by both parties (the first pairing - provided it didn't begin as a polygamous arrangement of course), otherwise an argument could be made that the other partners (outside the first binding) would count as infidelity to the first.

I hope that's clear what I mean there, I'm getting confused just by re-reading it...

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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Thangorn
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
76 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2008 :  05:05:15  Show Profile  Visit Thangorn's Homepage Send Thangorn a Private Message
oo these marriage replies are very interesting.. a whole aspect of faerunian faith I've never really dealt in.

Am I to understand that marrying people have their unions blessed by whatever faiths the two partners are most supportive of? How does this translate if the marrying people are both rogues who venerate Mask or pirates who mainly placate/worship Umberlee?

I'm interested in other faiths that bless unions and marriages.
Can you offer some of your more interesting "rules" regarding marriages?
Are there any other evil faiths that have a view on the bindings of marriage? I can certainly imagine Bane having an interest, especially in some of the more political marriages or marriages of convenience.

Thanks Ed and THO..


A Land Far Away (ALFA)
A Forgotten Realms persistent world for Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2
www.alandfaraway.org

Head Builder, DM & FR canon despot ALFA NWN2 Moonsea project.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

4834 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2008 :  15:25:58  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all. I bring this from Ed, in response to AlorinDawn:


Yes, I really enjoyed that era of writing sourcebooks. On-staff editors WERE watching to make sure a product didn't go really wild, but there was plenty of freedom to delve into lore that, strangely enough, gets mined over and over again by later designers, to hang new products on. :}
I honestly haven't seen enough formatted, "final sort of" 4e material to tell you the crunch/fluff tradeoff. I do know that there is a formal format for monster stats (a "stat block," if you will), but that's hardly news, being as examples of them have appeared on the Wizards website already. I'm not ducking the question here, or raising my handy NDA shield, I honestly can't judge.
As for other cons: yes, there is a strong possibility that I'll be attending something late this spring, but I can't confirm yet, because the convention folks haven't made any announcement yet. If it does happen, I can add this much: it shouldn't be a long trip for you to attend.


So saith Ed. Being far more mysterious than usual. He has a library board meeting tonight, but will try to send a lore response to one of the outstanding queries posted here, as soon as he can.
love to all,
THO
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