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Ranak
Learned Scribe

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2007 :  22:24:06  Show Profile  Visit Ranak's Homepage Send Ranak a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So I am a continent away from my all my guidebooks and a thought crossed my mind.

Is there a Christmas like holiday in the realms? (Life day, light day) I don't know if I am imagining it or confusing it with the Star Wars Christmas special, in any case, does anyone know? Are all the holidays by religion only?

Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2007 :  23:30:13  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Answer to your last question is no: see page 83 of Ed's thread for a slightly more detailed one. Nearest equivalent to Christmas/Yule is Midwinter -- Deadwinter Day, the world's death before being born. The 'God's birthday' aspect would have to be related to particular gods.
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Ranak
Learned Scribe

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2007 :  00:57:29  Show Profile  Visit Ranak's Homepage Send Ranak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

Answer to your last question is no: see page 83 of Ed's thread for a slightly more detailed one. Nearest equivalent to Christmas/Yule is Midwinter -- Deadwinter Day, the world's death before being born. The 'God's birthday' aspect would have to be related to particular gods.



Thank you much. I knew I wasn't imagining it.
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slay_4_pay
Seeker

65 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2007 :  19:52:07  Show Profile  Visit slay_4_pay's Homepage Send slay_4_pay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah I was thinking about that to. Not as a god's birthday thing, but what Christmas really is, the celebration of the Winter Solstice. Is that what Deadwinter Day is? ...And, are there presents?
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Sian
Senior Scribe

Denmark
596 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2007 :  20:08:00  Show Profile  Visit Sian's Homepage  Click to see Sian's MSN Messenger address Send Sian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
well ... as far as i know then there is theories scattered around in theological circles about that Jesus was just born somewhere in the winter and not specificly at winter solstice ... it was just made that what to sell it to savages though the times, because that there was no big diffence between celebrating Christmas and Winter Solstice

... by anyway ... since Chrismas have roots in Christianity there is no such thing like it in FR ... with Winter Solstice on the other hand there proberly is ... specialialy in the northen hermosphere i would guess where they acturally get rough winters from time to time and have good reasons to wish that the sun would gain strentgh again ...


But ... yeah ... many of the religions have specific holy days ... they are just scattered around the year and not that predominant as the Chistian Christmas

what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month
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slay_4_pay
Seeker

65 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2007 :  21:26:06  Show Profile  Visit slay_4_pay's Homepage Send slay_4_pay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sian

well ... as far as i know then there is theories scattered around in theological circles about that Jesus was just born somewhere in the winter and not specificly at winter solstice ... it was just made that what to sell it to savages though the times, because that there was no big diffence between celebrating Christmas and Winter Solstice

... by anyway ... since Chrismas have roots in Christianity there is no such thing like it in FR ... with Winter Solstice on the other hand there proberly is ... specialialy in the northen hermosphere i would guess where they acturally get rough winters from time to time and have good reasons to wish that the sun would gain strentgh again ...


But ... yeah ... many of the religions have specific holy days ... they are just scattered around the year and not that predominant as the Chistian Christmas



Actually, many scholars theorize the christ was probably born in the spring, since the sheppards would not be out at night tending their flocks in the dead of winter. December 25th was originally a Roman holiday called (I believe) Saturnalia. It was one of their biggest holidays. So, when Christianity took hold in Rome, instead of trying to make the people give up one their biggest party days, the powers that be simply declared that the day would now be a celebration of the birth of christ. The christmas tree and some other aspects of what we now know as Christmas are germanic traditions that were imported to the U.S. by way of England. Interesting fact the celebration of Christmas used to be such a huge excercise in debauchery that numerous attempts to outlaw it were made by puritans in both England and The States. The celebration of Christmas as we know it today didn't start until around the Victorian era. I'm sorry if my little lecture there was a bit much. I'm really not trying to sound haughty or anything, I just love history.
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Sian
Senior Scribe

Denmark
596 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2007 :  21:51:08  Show Profile  Visit Sian's Homepage  Click to see Sian's MSN Messenger address Send Sian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you do sound slightly haughty ... not because that you come with it, but how you do it ... there's two 2 reasons i think that, ... first you post it as an direct answer to me (quote) even though i barely touched anything (but the Winter Solstice) where we for large part agree ... and that you start talking about how it came to the US as it was the place everyone was at

what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32520 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2007 :  22:15:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Play nice, people.

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Walking in the Light
Seeker

22 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2007 :  01:27:33  Show Profile  Visit Walking in the Light's Homepage Send Walking in the Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I am more than happy to see Christmas celebrated for its Christ spiritual aspects
It’s been my experience that most Story Tellers, who use the FR setting, insert a (winter solstice) style holiday to their Story/Games

People just like having familiar things to relate to in movies/books/games

On a side note, Slay said her/his post was based on a theorize idea by some scholars
So no I didn’t think slay_4_pay came off haughty, just adding her/his own ideas to a well thought out question on Christmas

From the Book Halfling Sayings by Agudo

A Lion Tamer once said, if ya need an illusionist for thy circus then call a Gnome
But if thy circus needs a clown send in the Halflings

Chapter 5-The town of Gullykin on the Sword Coast
By Lady Silvin Lionheart, speaking to Agudo in the year of the Comical Halfling


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Lemernis
Senior Scribe

378 Posts

Posted - 23 Dec 2007 :  02:51:06  Show Profile  Visit Lemernis's Homepage Send Lemernis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slay_4_payI'm really not trying to sound haughty or anything, I just love history.



FWIW, it didn't come across as haughty to me. Interesting stuff.
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe

173 Posts

Posted - 25 Dec 2007 :  05:36:40  Show Profile  Visit The Simbul's Homepage Send The Simbul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
[spoiler]

If there was Christmas in Faerūn, I doubt it will exist much longer...

specifically since Jesus was killed off in the Forgotten Realms by 4E story managers due to him being one of those "uber-powerful NPCs" who kept "getting in the way the Player Characters", and because his presence meant it would be more difficult for novel authors to haphazardly ruin entire locales in the setting since they would have to account for "where he was and what he was doing".
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 25 Dec 2007 :  17:44:01  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Simbul

[spoiler]

If there was Christmas in Faerūn, I doubt it will exist much longer...

specifically since Jesus was killed off in the Forgotten Realms by 4E story managers due to him being one of those "uber-powerful NPCs" who kept "getting in the way the Player Characters", and because his presence meant it would be more difficult for novel authors to haphazardly ruin entire locales in the setting since they would have to account for "where he was and what he was doing".




HA!

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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slay_4_pay
Seeker

65 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2007 :  09:39:17  Show Profile  Visit slay_4_pay's Homepage Send slay_4_pay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sian

you do sound slightly haughty ... not because that you come with it, but how you do it ... there's two 2 reasons i think that, ... first you post it as an direct answer to me (quote) even though i barely touched anything (but the Winter Solstice) where we for large part agree ... and that you start talking about how it came to the US as it was the place everyone was at



Sorry, like I said I really didn't mean to sound like a *****. Your absolutley right about the (quote) post. I didn't even really consider how that would look. As far as the US thing goes, I wasn't trying to be all go USA or anything believe me (every time I watch the news lately I end up putting a little more money in my "moving to Canada fund" ). That was just the logical conclusion of my little lecture. Because, with Christmas (as with many other things) The US took various things from various cultures mashed them all together, commercialized it, marketed it, and then turned around and went "hey, look what we invented". And then proceeded to spread our brand of Christmas celebration all over the world. We did the same thing with fast food... and democracy.



Mod Edit: Watch the language please.

Edited by - The Sage on 29 Dec 2007 12:42:48
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8405 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2007 :  17:21:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slay_4_pay
[br

Sorry, like I said I really didn't mean to sound like a *****. Your absolutley right about the (quote) post. I didn't even really consider how that would look. As far as the US thing goes, I wasn't trying to be all go USA or anything believe me (every time I watch the news lately I end up putting a little more money in my "moving to Canada fund" ). That was just the logical conclusion of my little lecture. Because, with Christmas (as with many other things) The US took various things from various cultures mashed them all together, commercialized it, marketed it, and then turned around and went "hey, look what we invented". And then proceeded to spread our brand of Christmas celebration all over the world. We did the same thing with fast food... and democracy.



Mod Edit: Watch the language please.



Actually, I'm very interested in this and I knew some of it. For instance, I knew the Romans basically hijacked Christmas from the pagans. I also knew Santa Claus was from some kind of upper European decent (Germany or surrounding countries). I remember from the stories on tv that Saint Nicholas was a real person, but I don't remember what he did. How a tree got involved... and flying reindeer... etc.... I'd be interested in. I know Rudolph came from a commercial for a riding lawnmower or something that had red headlights. I BELIEVE Frosty the Snowman just came from a song. Considering I play Santa for kids every year, I'd love to know more. Granted its not realms significant, but hopefully the mods wouldn't mind? Its lore of a kind after all.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Sian
Senior Scribe

Denmark
596 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2007 :  20:25:58  Show Profile  Visit Sian's Homepage  Click to see Sian's MSN Messenger address Send Sian a Private Message  Reply with Quote
well ... in fact Saint Nicholas was a bishop in old Anatolia (the asian part of turkey) who used some of his vast wealth to place gifts to the poor without letting them know that it was him (at least that's how i remember it) ... one of the stories about him was that he supported some girls with dowries so they didn't have to become prostitudes

the Reindeers (and the tradition about socks) on the other hand is a washed 'hand-me-down' from the northic mythology where they believed that Odin would come riding on Sleipnir at Yule ... and the kids would leave their boots out with carrots and the like for Sleipnir ... and Odin would return the favor with gifts and candy ... over time Sleipnir have been changed to reindeers and Odin and Saint Nicholas have merged into the nowaday figure of Santa Claus (or Father Chrismas)

the elves can come from two folklore traditions

the first is from the dutch 'Sinterklaas' (basicly a christination of the former about Odin), but with the added thing that he had an helper called 'Black Peter' who carried his sack witch was used to capture bad children ... when Canadians libirated the nederlands in '45 they relieved the tradition, but thought that more 'black peter's would equal more fun (on the same time making him carry the presents instead of capturing bad children

the second one is a stinky translation from danish folklore where people believed that it was husnisser (housegnomes) that gave the presents ... but errors in translation remade them into elves ('Nisser' and 'Alfer' is sometimes used interchangely, specially in norway .. ('Alfer', also sometimes called 'Vilde Nisser' (wild gnomes) being more like feyish forest gnomes as per D&D) ... and since 'Alfer' can also be spelled 'Alver' there aren't a long way to missspell it as 'Elver' which is translated into Elves)

an interesting tidbit could be that depending on where you ask, Santa Claus lives either, spot on/below the North Pole, somewhere on the Ice sheet on Greenland or in the Finnish laplands

EDIT: some critical spelling mistakes and ekstra tidbits

what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month

Edited by - Sian on 31 Dec 2007 20:29:51
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ShepherdGunn
Learned Scribe

USA
89 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2008 :  13:50:07  Show Profile  Visit ShepherdGunn's Homepage  Click to see ShepherdGunn's MSN Messenger address  Send ShepherdGunn a Yahoo! Message Send ShepherdGunn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In regards to a Christmas-esqueue holiday, in my Campaigns, and from what I've read about it from a number of sources, Feast of the Moon, with the giving of gifts, and a time to come together as family is what I normally use for a Christmas. That's just what I've used. Though I have found this conversation to be rather edifying.

"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him."
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