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 How bloody stupid do they think Mystra is? A RANT
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2008 :  21:43:02  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Besides which, Shar couldn't directly attack the new deity, anyway -- it's not her place to do so.



Indeed, and if it's become so easy for one god to directly kill another, it begs the question of why it rarely ever seemed to happen before ("How come gods weren't being killed off and replaced every year?").

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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chance87
Seeker

50 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2008 :  00:54:57  Show Profile Send chance87 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Think I saw on Ao's blog that he transferred out of RPG over to Pokemon CCG development.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Ao is apparently on vacation, then, since he prolly could have stopped that, too.





I expect that when we finally get a Sellplague novel, each deity death scene will end with the victor yelling "There can be only one!"
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2008 :  11:23:23  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote



Here we are, born to be kings
We're the princes of the universe
Here we belong, fighting to survive
In a world with the darkest powers, heh
And here we are, we're the princes of the universe
Here we belong, fighting for survival
We've come to be the rulers of you all.

-- Freddie Mercury, "Princes of the Universe"




I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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chance87
Seeker

50 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2008 :  18:06:29  Show Profile Send chance87 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen




Here we are, born to be kings
We're the princes of the universe
Here we belong, fighting to survive
In a world with the darkest powers, heh
And here we are, we're the princes of the universe
Here we belong, fighting for survival
We've come to be the rulers of you all.

-- Freddie Mercury, "Princes of the Universe"




Aye, Mystra as MacLeod, Cyric as the Kurgan, and Savras as Ramirez...oh, wait...MacLeod took Kurgan's head at the end of the movie
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kysus
Learned Scribe

USA
83 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2008 :  09:22:51  Show Profile  Visit kysus's Homepage  Send kysus an AOL message Send kysus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
first time posting so figure i would put in my two bit cents, so here i go. I would have to agree with mace on this subject its hard to believe that another god would be able to take out another on their home turf where they are at there strongest not to mention she would have seen it coming which from what i understand she is the unofficial holder of the portfolio of time which she got from amuantar and would have still had it when she got all the powers from mystra #2. also as for as having a successor as god of magic i remember reading some where that mystra# 2 farsaw her own death in the time of troubles and thats why she created the choosen in the first place, to have one of them succeed her as the new god/godess of magic.
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arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
313 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2008 :  11:15:41  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Decisions on FR are now made on the basis of the bottom line and nothing else.
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
214 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2008 :  09:32:11  Show Profile Send ksu_bond a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I understand WotC made its decisions on the basis of helping out the bottom line, but they could have at least come up with a more plausible transition between 3.5 and 4e.
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arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
313 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2008 :  15:41:04  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why? That would take time and effort, which translates into money. Doing a rushed hatchet job is cheap.
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Amarel Derakanor
Learned Scribe

97 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2008 :  23:06:53  Show Profile Send Amarel Derakanor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Agreed... Unfortunately. Love your rants, by the way, Mace. So. When comes the next one?
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Pandora
Learned Scribe

Germany
305 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2008 :  08:28:46  Show Profile  Visit Pandora's Homepage Send Pandora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arry

Why? That would take time and effort, which translates into money. Doing a rushed hatchet job is cheap.


... as Microsoft has brilliantly shown over many years, but that is a totally different topic for rants.

The only answer I can come up with is that Cyric used the Shadow Weave and that exposure to larger amounts of that kind of energy is somehow poisonous to Mystra. Since Mystra split her power among the chosen also as a "backup" I would say its not at all likely she would have died without a replacement though. Having the chosen was a requirement to make handling the power easier for the goddess.

If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.

- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5

Edited by - Pandora on 31 Jul 2008 08:42:16
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe

Netherlands
423 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  05:04:54  Show Profile  Visit Tyranthraxus's Homepage  Click to see Tyranthraxus's MSN Messenger address Send Tyranthraxus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

Wooly, do you remember at the end of the novel Waterdeep, a voice asks, "And how does your cosmos fare, Ao?" in which Ao replies, "They have restored the balance, Master. The Realms are secure."? Well, that master is WotC. Lol. WotC wants less deities in the Realms so Ao is letting more deities die.



Hmm... maybe Ao is just some "lesser" entity who answers to some über lord of the multiverse?

And another thing, yesterday I read something about Tyr being tricked into killing Helm over Tymora. I thought it was this topic but I couldn't find the reply about someone saying it was against the nature of the gods. True, the events in crusable shows the Realms deities are kinda static and boring. But I kinda like the new direction they're going with the gods. They become a bit more "human", kinda like the greek panteon. And Tyr falling in love with Tymora? Why not. We mortals couldn't comprehend what's going on in a mind of an entity that's almost as old as the world. But lets face it, the chances of Cyric pulling of this deception of the All Seeing god Tyr is small, very small.

Anyway, back to the topic. It's a shame Mystra gets killed all of a sudden, and I've grown to like her after I read the avatar trilogy. But I can't deny I like how it's been done. I like Shar as the main villain instead of Bane, who's always straight forward (tyranny and world domination ect).

With the death of Mystra (and with her the Weave), it could have been a plan of Shar to claim her portfolio of magic and thus having control of the Weave AND Shadow Weave and thus being one of the most powerful deities of the Realms.

All in all I don't really know what to make of it. One part of me is disgusted by all these major events and the other side likes the change. At the moment, this is just another ToT with the coming of AD&D 2nd edtion en the rebirth of Bane and the return of the City of Shade announced the 3rd edition. I can't say anymore untill I've seen the new Realms campaign guide.

Edited by - Tyranthraxus on 13 Aug 2008 07:23:06
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Pandora
Learned Scribe

Germany
305 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  05:50:14  Show Profile  Visit Pandora's Homepage Send Pandora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
Hmm... maybe Ao is just some "lesser" entity who answers to some über lord of the multiverse?

Does that matter really? IMO it doesnt and its kinda esoteric speculation because the characters in a world wont know that. Even the existence of Ao isnt really known by many of the "normal population", so someone more powerful than Ao would probably be known to no one. So Ao and his superiors have zero influence on the events of the world IMO.

There is absolutely no need for a "higher being" because WotC can do what it wants with the campaign. They can paint everything purple and tell us its ok. A higher being does not make the changes in the campaign any more reasonable than they are now.

If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.

- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe

Netherlands
423 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  07:08:23  Show Profile  Visit Tyranthraxus's Homepage  Click to see Tyranthraxus's MSN Messenger address Send Tyranthraxus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No. It doesn't matter. As someone else already posted WotC is the master of the multiverse. But I like the mysteries that surround Ao, and the thought that even the lord of the gods has a superior.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1564 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  11:33:33  Show Profile  Visit Asgetrion's Homepage Send Asgetrion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus

Hmm... maybe Ao is just some "lesser" entity who answers to some über lord of the multiverse?


Yes, that "uber" lord of the multiverse is... the DM. This was apparently meant to imply that no matter what events take place in the Realms, it's *you*, the DM, who is the true master with complete control over *your* campaigns.

"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  19:34:56  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
And Tyr falling in love with Tymora? Why not.


Note that the relevant text in GHotR never even mentions the word "love", or states that any one god in the scenerio actually loved another.

quote:
I like Shar as the main villain instead of Bane, who's always straight forward (tyranny and world domination ect).


I don't think there should be any "main villain" in the Realms.




"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29639 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  20:00:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

I don't think there should be any "main villain" in the Realms.



Agreed. Having a main villain not only limits other villainous options, but it also means that the main villain will wind up being a primary focus. While that is certainly what's happening with Shar, I think it damages the setting. I like having oodles of evil folk, running around and sometimes stepping on each other's toes. It's more realistic, to me, and it gives more roleplaying opportunities.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  20:10:11  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I like having oodles of evil folk, running around and sometimes stepping on each other's toes. It's more realistic, to me, and it gives more roleplaying opportunities.



Indeed, in my opinion it's way more fun when evil isn't monolithic.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe

Netherlands
423 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  23:24:13  Show Profile  Visit Tyranthraxus's Homepage  Click to see Tyranthraxus's MSN Messenger address Send Tyranthraxus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
And Tyr falling in love with Tymora? Why not.


Note that the relevant text in GHotR never even mentions the word "love", or states that any one god in the scenerio actually loved another.

quote:
I like Shar as the main villain instead of Bane, who's always straight forward (tyranny and world domination ect).


I don't think there should be any "main villain" in the Realms.







Yeah, but there is always some evil god who is the main bad guy. First Bane (with the help of Myrkul and Bhaal), then Cyric and now Shar (again with Cyric). Who's next? (maybe Mask makes a comeback as the mastermind ) The thing I like about Shar is because, for me, was I didn't expect it from her.
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StarBog
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
152 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2008 :  23:40:31  Show Profile  Visit StarBog's Homepage Send StarBog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I like having oodles of evil folk, running around and sometimes stepping on each other's toes. It's more realistic, to me, and it gives more roleplaying opportunities.



Indeed, in my opinion it's way more fun when evil isn't monolithic.



Yes, we know that, and the history of the Realms has shown us that, but of course to the new MMO-addled audience that WoTC are after, one big supper baddie is the way to go...

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Pandora
Learned Scribe

Germany
305 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2008 :  00:27:54  Show Profile  Visit Pandora's Homepage Send Pandora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
Yeah, but there is always some evil god who is the main bad guy. First Bane (with the help of Myrkul and Bhaal), then Cyric and now Shar (again with Cyric). Who's next? (maybe Mask makes a comeback as the mastermind ) The thing I like about Shar is because, for me, was I didn't expect it from her.

The problem with the "condensed list of gods" in 4e is that you have less choice as to which evil deity is behind it all. DMs can simply "roll a d6" to get the deity when creating an adventure instead of the "d8 (for the pantheon) and then a d10 (for the specific deity)" which worked in 3e. A lot duller IMO and it gets even worse for good aligned gods.

If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.

- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29639 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2008 :  00:37:58  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
And Tyr falling in love with Tymora? Why not.


Note that the relevant text in GHotR never even mentions the word "love", or states that any one god in the scenerio actually loved another.

quote:
I like Shar as the main villain instead of Bane, who's always straight forward (tyranny and world domination ect).


I don't think there should be any "main villain" in the Realms.







Yeah, but there is always some evil god who is the main bad guy. First Bane (with the help of Myrkul and Bhaal), then Cyric and now Shar (again with Cyric). Who's next? (maybe Mask makes a comeback as the mastermind ) The thing I like about Shar is because, for me, was I didn't expect it from her.



Not really... While Bane did cause a lot of trouble, and Cyric did, too, there were always other evil folks around, and there were good guys that weren't solely dedicated to stopping just this one deity's followers. We had evil groups that didn't have too much to do with the gods, and good guys that worked towards a general good -- which didn't automatically mean thwarting evil group X and ignoring everyone else.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe

USA
285 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2008 :  01:13:55  Show Profile  Visit monknwildcat's Homepage Send monknwildcat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Based on the events of Avatar IV and V, Mask could have requested a greater deity call a council of the pantheon's greater gods to force Shar off his portfolio of shadows.

It's not as if Shar governed the portfolios of intrigue or shadows, and much of the pantheon would benefit by requiring her to adhere to her given portfolios.

Or did I misunderstand the mechanic of the council?
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe

Netherlands
423 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2008 :  01:24:29  Show Profile  Visit Tyranthraxus's Homepage  Click to see Tyranthraxus's MSN Messenger address Send Tyranthraxus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
And Tyr falling in love with Tymora? Why not.


Note that the relevant text in GHotR never even mentions the word "love", or states that any one god in the scenerio actually loved another.

quote:
I like Shar as the main villain instead of Bane, who's always straight forward (tyranny and world domination ect).


I don't think there should be any "main villain" in the Realms.







Yeah, but there is always some evil god who is the main bad guy. First Bane (with the help of Myrkul and Bhaal), then Cyric and now Shar (again with Cyric). Who's next? (maybe Mask makes a comeback as the mastermind ) The thing I like about Shar is because, for me, was I didn't expect it from her.



Not really... While Bane did cause a lot of trouble, and Cyric did, too, there were always other evil folks around, and there were good guys that weren't solely dedicated to stopping just this one deity's followers. We had evil groups that didn't have too much to do with the gods, and good guys that worked towards a general good -- which didn't automatically mean thwarting evil group X and ignoring everyone else.



You have a point but, when fighting one particular evil force the rest isn't ignored. I didn't mean the gods are the only villains but they're scheming the most I think. When was the last time the Red Wizards or the Cult of Dragons did something devastating?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29639 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2008 :  04:02:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat

Based on the events of Avatar IV and V, Mask could have requested a greater deity call a council of the pantheon's greater gods to force Shar off his portfolio of shadows.

It's not as if Shar governed the portfolios of intrigue or shadows, and much of the pantheon would benefit by requiring her to adhere to her given portfolios.

Or did I misunderstand the mechanic of the council?



You're prolly right... But Mask's reaction to Shar poaching his portfolio was something that was strangely ignored in 3E.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29639 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2008 :  04:08:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Not really... While Bane did cause a lot of trouble, and Cyric did, too, there were always other evil folks around, and there were good guys that weren't solely dedicated to stopping just this one deity's followers. We had evil groups that didn't have too much to do with the gods, and good guys that worked towards a general good -- which didn't automatically mean thwarting evil group X and ignoring everyone else.



You have a point but, when fighting one particular evil force the rest isn't ignored. I didn't mean the gods are the only villains but they're scheming the most I think. When was the last time the Red Wizards or the Cult of Dragons did something devastating?



Why does it have to be devestating? The Red Wal-Marts did more to spread Thayvan influence than anything they'd pulled for 200 years before that.

As for the Cult of the Dragon, they were major players in the recent Dragonrage...

The thing is, though, that from what we've seen of 4E thus far, if there is something evil, it's somehow connected to Shar. For the last couple of years, she's been the major force for evil in the Realms, and the Shattered Realms appear to be continuing that trend. It appears that other evil deities -- like Bane -- or groups -- like the Twisted Rune -- are just sitting on their hands, watching Shar do all the evil stuff.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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