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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 06:10:54
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I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but it seems the best fit.
Right, so I'm working on a NWN2 module set in parts of Aglarond and Thay. I won't be covering Thay itself apart from the Red Wizard organization and the Order of the Black Flame for some many months from now, and I'm confident that I've got a good grasp on that, but don't let that stop you if you know of some obscure stuff on those topics (esp. the various Orders of Kossuth!) ;).
I'm looking for information in this order of prescedence:
Velprintalar (capital of Aglarond)
Aglarond
The Simbul
Things I have:
FRCS
Unapproachable East
I can't find much more in terms of official lore beyond those two books.
I've also read The Last Mythal series, which for like half of book II they were in and around the area. I got a lot of good info out of it about Sildeyuir, but Velprintalar and Aglarond itself not so much except that the guards wear green and white and there's a really big library in the city. So does anyone have any good sources on Velprintalar and Aglarond, either canon or in novels? Maybe some recommendations? I'd like to get my hands on them over Christmas if possible when I'm away from my module building.
In terms of the The Simbul, if someone could recommend a few of the novels that feature her the most I'd appreciate it, but it's not hard to find information on her for the most part and also she's not a big part of the plot at this point so I can cover her at my leisure.
Finally, a few more specific questions:
During the Rage, what was Nartheling doing? I haven't read that entire book series but it doesn't seem to be leading that way, however Nartheling is connected to the Cult of the Dragon.
Anyone know what The Simbul is doing around fall in 1374? I'm using the frequently absent from the throne thing about why she's not around. I'm thinking about ad-libbing catching word of the events that take place in Unclean as an excuse why she'd be gone.
Any Mythals in the Sunglade? Maybe a malfunctioning one? I figure something has to hold Sildeyuir in place, something has to power the portals in the Yuirwood, and the Nilshai want something...
On elven high magic, Red Wizard Circle Magic seems pretty similar. Maybe with some help, could a human...wizard of some kind possibly master some Elven High Magic? I really don't know that much about it, but in a certain book the Drow could do it, and honestly humans seem a lot more likely to posses the prerequisites that prevent the Drow from being able, such as trust, than the Drow do.
Does The Simbul's ban on piracy significantly effect smuggling over the water? Reason I ask is because Amn has to cross the Dragon's Coast and then a trip through the safest waters, well safe as far as Faerun goes, to get to a significant port in the East. The Shadowlords would also most likely sail if possible to avoid the Dragonjaw Mountains. Actually Aglarond has a pretty sweet deal in terms of sea trade now that I'm looking at it, and looks like a good place for the Shadow Thieves and Shadowlords to slug it out.
Altumbel, is that like the relationship between the US and Puerto Rico?
Sorry, I know it's a lot of stuff to cover, but you guys like talking about the Realms :D Thank you everyone who replies.
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Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 06:20:24
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There are a few sources from the older editions. Dreams of the Red Wizards, the Seven Sisters and the Spellbound box set all covers the area and the Simbul. All of these are available on pdf's for a small sum.
Cant help you much with the spesific questions though. Sorry. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 15:26:04
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You may want to read some of Ed Greenwood's novels (if you have the time) for information about the Simbul, such as Silverfall, Elminster in Hell, Spellfire, and Elminster's Daughter (though she isn't prominent in the last two novels). She makes appearances in many of his other novels, and there's also an out-of-print novel called The Simbul's Gift which features her as a main character (though I have not read it).
Of course, much of our advice will be tempered by how much free time you have, how much of that time you are willing to spend on reading novels, and how much money and effort you are willing to spend on getting out-of-print (but reliable) sources.  Nobleknight.com is a great site for getting out-of-print stuff at fair prices.
As a avid player of NWN modules (I know you, although I'm on hiatus from NWN at the moment), I can definitely say that it shows when a module author puts effort into getting the flavor of the setting right, and I'm very appreciative of that as well. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 14 Dec 2007 15:27:58 |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 18:43:30
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Thanks Jorkens. Dreams of the Red Wizards I've heard of before, but I haven't seen it in stores anywhere. Out of print?
Do you have a link where those .pdfs are available? Is it the WOTC site? I'll look in the meantime but a link would be helpful.
Rinonalyrna,
Which one do you think is the best? The Simbul's Gift sounds promising if I can find it, and I'll check out that site for other stuff. Spellfire I've heard of as one of the best FR novels out there.
Yeah but basically my situation is my wife is deployed to Iraq until early 2009, so even with my daughter and other stuff I have going on I still have a lot of free time. Granted most of my free time is spent working with the NWN2 toolset, but I like reading and for the most part find the FR novels enjoyable and they've really helped me with my own writing. Time and money, it's all good, I've got plenty of both. Best part is both of my hobbies kind of play off of each other so it's always time well spent to me. |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 19:04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by dirtywick
Rinonalyrna,
Which one do you think is the best? The Simbul's Gift sounds promising if I can find it, and I'll check out that site for other stuff. Spellfire I've heard of as one of the best FR novels out there.
Personally, I loved Spellfire. The Simbul isn't necessarily a *major* character in that novel, but she does have an important role, and you get to see a lot of her personality.
Silverfall might be a good read for you because it features linked stories for all the Seven Sisters--that is, the Simbul has her own section (and a picture!). Again, you'll get a sense of her personality and how she interacts with others, including her sisters. You might want to read The Simbul's Gift because the Simbul is the protagonist (and it takes place in her own country, and features Thayans), although like I said I haven't read that novel yet.
quote:
Yeah but basically my situation is my wife is deployed to Iraq until early 2009, so even with my daughter and other stuff I have going on I still have a lot of free time. Granted most of my free time is spent working with the NWN2 toolset, but I like reading and for the most part find the FR novels enjoyable and they've really helped me with my own writing. Time and money, it's all good, I've got plenty of both. Best part is both of my hobbies kind of play off of each other so it's always time well spent to me.
I'm so happy to hear that--you have plenty of options open to you then. :) Good luck with your module, and best wishes to your wife in Iraq. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 19:47:21
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| "The Simbul´s Gift" is an okay novel in my opinion, but the Simbul in it seems a little "different" to me. Therefore I wouldn´t use it as a primary reference. I think I personally got the strongest idea about who the Simbul "is" from her role in "Elminster in Hell". |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 20:54:01
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Thanks Rinonalyrna for the comment about my wife.
I grabbed a few of the suggested books from Amazon, and a few extras. Spellfire was the first in a series so I picked up the whole series, and a few others including Elminster in Hell, Dreams of the Red Wizards, and The Simbul's Gift. Hopefully that will get here before I leave to my Ma's for Christmas (she doesn't have cable!)
Dart, is there a lot on Aglarond itself in The Simbul's Gift? |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 22:43:57
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Also, Red Magic, for some tidbits about Thay's relationship with Aglarond.
The Yellow Silk contains a few notes on the early years of Aglarond.
Pirates of the Fallen Stars and Sea of Fallen Stars as well.
Wizards and Rogues of the Realms and Warriors and Priests of the Realms also.
Ed's '04 and '06 replies here at Candlekeep.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 23:30:58
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| The recent novel Stardeep reveals the motivations of the Nilshai. Highlight for spoiler: Apparently they serve the inhabitants of an ancient and thankfully somehow "dormant" aboleth city (it's implied that said inhabitants are some form of "uber" aboleths, a rather scary prospect considering how powerful even regular aboleths are), and are out to destroy the star elves because members of that subrace once thwarted an attempt to return the aboleth city to the modern Realms. |
Edited by - nbnmare on 14 Dec 2007 23:33:25 |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 00:03:15
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Wow, I'm going to have to pick that one up, nbnmare. That sounds interesting and really you don't hear about...that particular creature too often which is a shame considering how interesting they are (also a shame they don't have creature models for that in NWN2 just yet and my modelling skills are lacking!)
Hey The Sage! If this is too much trouble...and it's cool if it is...maybe you could link to some releveant parts of those threads? I'm having some trouble following the format of them. For instance on the first page there's a lot of questions about Aglarond I'd be interested in seeing answered, but all of Ed's answers seem to be to questions that aren't in that thread at all and there's no dates on when the questions he's answering were asked, so I don't know where to begin to look. Additionally, the search feature just pops those threads up but not the page numbers of my keywords.
But anyway, thanks all for the info posted so far, it's been great. |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 00:05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by dirtywick
Thanks Rinonalyrna for the comment about my wife.
You're welcome.
quote:
I grabbed a few of the suggested books from Amazon, and a few extras. Spellfire was the first in a series so I picked up the whole series, and a few others including Elminster in Hell, Dreams of the Red Wizards, and The Simbul's Gift. Hopefully that will get here before I leave to my Ma's for Christmas (she doesn't have cable!)
Great, I hope you enjoy reading them and find them informative. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 01:13:46
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You'll find plenty of nifty lore relating to the Simbul as well, in Ed's replies for Aglarond. There's a couple of isolated replies focusing on just the Simbul as well.
quote:
Originally posted by dirtywick
Hey The Sage! If this is too much trouble...and it's cool if it is...maybe you could link to some releveant parts of those threads? I'm having some trouble following the format of them.
It'd take too long to provide the links. I'll just post the dates with the relevant replies and you can search through the compiled reply files via the links on Kuje's website:-
- March 21 '04
- April 8 '04
- June 2 '04
- December 5 '04
- There's a few tidbits in the '05 file as well, but you'll probably be better off searching through the compiled files for those.
- January 16 '06
- May 4 '06
- March 18 '07
We also have this "Secrets of the Sages" tidbit on Aglarond:-
"Secrets of the Sages info about Aglarond: A small realm that keeps to itself, Aglarond exerts little influence in affairs of state beyond its borders. It is important in the overall strategic balance of the Inner Sea lands, however, simply because its continued existence prevents Thay from overwhelming the northern “East.” Aglarond’s strength and danger, because she stands in magical opposition to the Red Wizards of Thay, who do not kindly suffer rivals, is its current ruler, a female archmage of fabled powers, known only as The Simbul.
Aglarond lies on the northern side of a peninsula jutting out into the eastern end of the Inner Sea; a sparsely inhabited, heavily-wooded realm of few farms and no large cities. Jagged pinnacles of rock stand at its tip and run along the spine of its lands. To the east, these fall away into vast and treacherous marshes that largely isolate The Simbul’s realm from the mainland. Travel in Aglarond is by griffon, ship, or forest trails. It trades lumber, gems, and some copper for glass, iron, cloth goods, and food when freetrading vessels come to port, but sends out no trading ships of its own.
Aglarond cannot boast a field army of any size, nor a navy, but within its woods The Simbul’s foresters are expert and deadly troops, adept at firefighting and at using “coastboats” (long, canoe-like open boats handled with lateen sails, oars, and poles) to raid by night as well as traveling in the treetops and fighting among them. The foresters are alert and grim; the menacing might of Thay is uncomfortably near, and Aglarond’s blades are all too few. At the battles of Singing Sands (1194 DR [Dalerecking]) and Brokenheads (1197 DR), Aglarond’s forces turned back invading hosts from Thay, but the cost was great. Skirmishes with raiders hoping to win glory in Thay, or mercenaries hired by Thay, are common.
Little is known of The Simbul’s aims and true strength, but she is seen to constantly roam the northern Realms, working to influence all manner of events. This is presumably to better Aglarond’s safety, although she is said to be a member or at least an ally of the Harpers, whose aims are more widespread.
Initially a wilderland inhabited only by a few sylvan elves, satyrs, and the fell forest denizens known more to men in fable than in fact (owlbears, stirges, and the like), Aglarond was little disturbed by men as settlement spread east across the Inner Sea lands an age ago. Often visited by pirates and others seeking a temporary refuge or to cut timber, Aglarond remained unsettled for many long winters. A few adventurers ceased their explorations to colonize the land, mostly those too old, notorious, or badly maimed to continue faring. At length fishermen seeking untouched seas moved to Aglarond’s shores, and slowly small settlements of fisher-folk took hold on the rocky coasts. These villagers faced the sea, and although the woods at their backs seldom erupted to endanger them, they did not explore inland nor boldly cut and fell in the manner of the settlers of Cormyr, Sembia, and the Dalelands. The far-off pinnacles and the endless woods remained hostile places for a generation or more; those who ventured too far in did not return. As the woodcutting slowly ate away at the forest edge, skirmishes with owlbears and satyrs became more common, and were-creatures began to appear. Adventurers on the run or seeking hire also began to arrive in Aglarond, and for a brief, bloody decade still vivid in songs and travelers’-tales, men slaughtered the most dangerous of Aglarond’s monsters. As the dangers of the woods grew fewer, hunters and fur-trappers ventured further inland—and eventually discovered that the elves of Aglarond had grown few and humble, weakened by disease and continual warfare with the mountain trolls and the dark elves of the mountain deeps. Most of the fisher-folk remained ignorant (and fearful) of the forest depths, and did not venture far into the trees. But the hunters and adventurers fought the trolls and (rarely) the drow, knowing the elves first as wary allies and then as friends, and within another generation a proud (if few in number) half-elven folk had come into being in the depths of the woods, the elves being completely absorbed into the half-elven stock. Over the next decade, the drow “went under”(ground) and came to Aglarond no more, the trolls were nearly eradicated, and the satyrs all left Aglarond or perished in the forest wars, until the half-elves came to rule all of Aglarond’s wooded interior. Indiscriminate woodcutting continued around the villages of Oskur and Dlusk in particular and at length the half-elves grew angry enough to move down into the fishing villages and take over. This led to several armed skirmishes, notably a pitched battle at the remote anchorage of Ingdal’s Arm (in which the “pure” humans perished to a man), but at length the half-elves prevailed.
For a time there was ill feeling, but the just rule of the half-elven (and their undeniable and ever-increasing blood ties to the fisher-folk) soon welded the people into a loyal fellowship under the rule of a king. The first king, the senior war-leader of the elves, was the aged Brindor. He established a fighting corps of veterans and youths, named an heir, as he had no surviving mate or offspring of his blood, and began a tradition of government by monarchy and council. Each village chose a representative or elder to be a part of the council, to advise and debate with the king. Those who would not accept the rule of the King moved west, into Altumbel, or north and east into Thesk. Theskan raiders (and later, the growing threat of Thay) were encountered by Brindor’s only great engineering works: the fortress of Emmech at the mouth of the Umber, and the “Wall of Giants,” constructed by giants in return for some mysterious magical service Brindor gave them. These works prevented any army that crossed the Umber marshes from sweeping into Aglarond’s growing farms.
Brindor’s heir, Althon, began a great program of irrigation, road-building, and careful husbandry of the muchshrunken woods of Aglarond. Eventually to become known as Althon “The Old,” he lived nearly a hundred winters. In Althon’s time Aglarond grew into a strong and happy realm, despite the growing power of Thay and the many cities along the coast to the south of the Yuirwood. The wood gained its name from the “Yuir,” as the elven folk now absorbed into Aglarond’s half-elven populace had called themselves. Althon had two sons, Elthond and Philaspur. Elthond perished in the first great battle gainst the forces of Thay at Singing Sands (so-called for the lamenting women of Aglarond, who cried and sang all night as they took up the bodies of their slain men from the sands around Emmech). Philaspur reigned thereafter, himself perishing at the fortress of Glarondar in the battle of Brokenheads.
Philaspur’s daughters, Thara and Ulae’, ruled long and well together after his death. Known as “the Grey Sisters” for their raiment, they developed their magical arts to awesome heights and were believed to have used shrewd dweomercraft to thwart many forces from Thay ere these reached Aglarond’s borders. In their later years, both took husbands. Thara wed Elthar of Milvarune, gaining thereby the friendship of Thesk (which survives to this day). Ulae’ bore a son Halacar and a daughter Ilione.
Halacar reigned from the death of his mother (1257 DR) through a disastrous campaign against Thay and died—of poison, it is thought—in the winter of 1260 DR without wife or offspring. His sister Ilione came to the throne inexperienced but she was wiser than Halacar and carefully built Aglarond’s strength. Ilione immediately named as heir her apprentice, the young and mysterious sorceress known only as The Simbul. She ruled long and wisely as Aglarond prospered. Ilione died of plague in 1320 DR.
Since that time The Simbul has ruled the realm with magery greater than any known in the Inner Sea lands since the fall of Myth Drannor. She is thought to still live, and Aglarond still survives, because she personally overmatches even the infamous Red Wizards of Thay. If The Simbul herself has apprentices or a chosen heir, she has not publicly identified any such to the Council. Her style as Queen of Aglarond, a title she never uses, preferring to be known only as “The Simbul,” is her own, different from her predecessors and counterparts in other realms. As Mirt of Waterdeep once said, “Ah, that lady—she goes her own way.” That way must be a narrow and often treacherous one; Aglarond’s future may well be in the balance."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 15 Dec 2007 02:25:38 |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 01:48:11
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Ah man, I have to tell you, the time Ed Greenwood and the rest of the writers/developers take out to answer questions in such detail is amazing. It's pretty unique to see them connecting with fans on that level, and a lot of interesting reading.
I'll just have to hop in and ask a few questions when I get some good ones! I think I'll ask Mr. Byers about the Nartheling question I had up top.
The stuff on the Star Elves, the Sons of Hoar/Society of the Verdant Arrow, and Altumbel was great! Thanks again The Sage, it would have been quite a while before I eventually stumbled across it. |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 06:26:07
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quote:
Originally posted by dirtywick
Thanks Jorkens. Dreams of the Red Wizards I've heard of before, but I haven't seen it in stores anywhere. Out of print?
Do you have a link where those .pdfs are available? Is it the WOTC site? I'll look in the meantime but a link would be helpful.
All of the products I mentioned are 1st and 2ed. and therefore long out of print. My computer skills are limited to the extreme, so links are beyond me, but they are available from both Paizo and RPGNow. They should not be too difficult to find.
Of these, Spellbound would be the best on Aglarond itself and the Seven Sisters book the best on on the Simbul.
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 19:31:04
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For future reference, to do a link all you need to do is copy and paste the url from the address bar. I did that in my signature :D I tried to do something a little more fancy with BB code and html but for some reason it wouldn't work in the preview so...but that's all there is to it.
Anyway, I downloaded the .pdf for both of those. Spellbound is great, in some ways it's better than the Unapproachable East sourcebook, but very similar. Particularly, there was a map of Velprintalar with a few important buildings. Unfortunately I already did the exterior of Velprintalar so the layout is all wrong and I'm not feeling inclined to dumping three weeks worth of work but I'll still use the buildings and many of the characters that are missing from the UE sourcebook for the plot, which is great. Between the history in that book and the one above from The Sage it's a lot more detailed than the timeline in UE, and the characters section is outstanding by comparison (although many of the Red Wizards are outlined in the Villians Lorebook, but not in as great of detail except for Szass Tam.)
In the Seven Sisters book there's also a cool tidbit about The Simbul wiping out the Red Sword mercenary company singlehandedly, and as coincidence would have it I was looking for a mercenary company.
I may have to hook up my printer and prints some of this.
Thanks again, the last couple of days you guys helped me uncover a ton of information! Call me a nerd, but it's pretty exciting haha |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2007 : 01:12:47
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quote:
Originally posted by dirtywick
For future reference, to do a link all you need to do is copy and paste the url from the address bar. I did that in my signature :D
Oh, I know how to link. It's just that, it would've taken more time than I could commit to linking all those replies I referenced yesterday.
quote:
I tried to do something a little more fancy with BB code and html but for some reason it wouldn't work in the preview so...but that's all there is to it.
You mean like this:- [URL=*addresshere*]linkwordhere[/URL]
Just replace both the * with " and you'll have your link. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
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Aglarond
