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 Have the "uber" NPCs ever worried you?
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2007 :  20:32:46  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
Just heard some of this designer at WOTC said and I was wondering...did Drizzt, Elminster, or the Simbul ever influence or intimidate you and your style of playing in the Realms?

Choices:

Yes
No
Who? Who? and Who?

(Anonymous Vote)

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!

Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2007 :  20:33:54  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I use 'em when I need 'em as a DM, but my players are the main focus...period

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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l33td0ggy
Seeker

25 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2007 :  20:54:05  Show Profile  Visit l33td0ggy's Homepage Send l33td0ggy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
they've never worried me. but some of their fanbois have!

i have no sig.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2007 :  21:16:56  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did they influence me as a Realms fan? Yes. Did they intimidate me? No.

So I voted yes.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2007 :  21:29:43  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

Did they influence me as a Realms fan? Yes. Did they intimidate me? No.

So I voted yes.



Did they influence your style of playing?

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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LordArcana
Seeker

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2007 :  21:29:59  Show Profile  Visit LordArcana's Homepage  Send LordArcana a Yahoo! Message Send LordArcana a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As a player i can't say the "uber" npc's of the realms have played a huge direct part in any of my campaigns. For the most part people MAY know of Elminster the Sage or Drizzt, but if put in a line up its doubtful anyone would know who they are. They are powerful in their own ways which means they have their own goals. I don't see Drizzt ever wanting to go to Llorkh or Cormyr of Turmish to interact with my pc's.

Elminster and the Simbul, while designers have given the idea that they can be placed in adventures to help out the pc's if needed i personally find it cheesy to say Elminster pops in to save the day...again. If Elminster was to ever play a part in my campaign it would simply be for some of the knowledge he has.
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2007 :  23:09:42  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They influence my game, yes... everytime that I need of a good inspiration, I look to them!

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1065 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2007 :  23:15:36  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did they influence me as a Realms fan? Yes.
Did they intimidate me? No.
Did they influence your style of playing? Yes.

So I voted yes.

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  00:45:10  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

Did they influence me as a Realms fan? Yes. Did they intimidate me? No.

So I voted yes.



Did they influence your style of playing?



Depends on what you mean by "influence". I like a lot of NPCs and it's hard for me to think about the Realms without thinking about Elminster. But if the question is really about whether or not players actively feeling that Elminster is somehow overshadowing them? No, that's not something that I care about. I can have a lot of fun with lower level (even lvl 1) characters--with the knowledge that certain other characters vastly overpower them. I don't care.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 06 Dec 2007 00:46:19
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  06:37:57  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Influenced, yes. A problem? No. I did drop the levels on many of the mages in the Forgotten Realms Adventures book, but even that was more or less for practical reasons not out of dislike.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  07:53:20  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They never interfered with my game play. My vote was: NO.

"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  11:58:23  Show Profile  Visit GRYPHON's Homepage Send GRYPHON a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Never a concern...

'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  13:27:32  Show Profile  Visit sparhawk42's Homepage Send sparhawk42 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love these characters and they have never had a negative impact on me, my love of the realms, or my playing style.

You never fail until you stop trying.
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Matthus
Senior Scribe

Germany
393 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  16:24:08  Show Profile  Visit Matthus's Homepage Send Matthus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Through them I got interested in the Relams, but my play never was concerned with "uber" ...
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  16:40:54  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The way they are described/stated in D&D 3.x Realms ? Yeah, they can be a serious worry.

But I can't explain why without going into the RPG theory/design banned territory.

Edited by - Skeptic on 06 Dec 2007 16:42:04
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  16:54:29  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I think I grasped the point behind the voting question better than Rinonalyrna . She clearly went through it word by word ... and some may say rightly so. Yet, since Mace pointed at that WotC designer, the intent was quite clear. Hence, the answer was a clear "No!" from my part. Even if I had done it Rinonalyrna-style .

They never influenced my game, my campaigns, nor my perception of the Realms. Elminster as well as the Simbul (whom I like more) belong to the movers and shakers of the world, needed* to get the setting and its story going as such in-setting. But you have these chaps throughout all settings.
Drizzt is just a character amongst millions of others, living in a remote area. He does nothing that is needed for the setting - if you do not count selling FR novels, that is - and is not that powerful either. You find tons of people of his "power level" throughout the sourcebooks and the only thing that makes him different from those is the mere fact that they do not enjoy the "novel propaganda".

*Some may disagree, but that is always the case, ain't it?

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  20:02:25  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage  Click to see AlorinDawn's MSN Messenger address Send AlorinDawn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I votes Yes. The reason I did so is that the presence of said powerful NPCs in a few instances have made me alter a plot line or location due to the fact that things would not have likely progressed to the point of the PCs having to deal with the threat when one of the other powerful NPCs could have done so. I will say that this has happened only a handful of times over the years, but it has happened.

The Realms are so vast though, that unless you are nailed down to one spot, just move one kingdom over and the badd arse NPC is out of the picture in nost cases.

Currently reading: Eyes of The Dragon by Stephen King

Long live Sniffy Wigglebottom
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  20:17:52  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan

Well, I think I grasped the point behind the voting question better than Rinonalyrna . She clearly went through it word by word ... and some may say rightly so. Yet, since Mace pointed at that WotC designer, the intent was quite clear. Hence, the answer was a clear "No!" from my part. Even if I had done it Rinonalyrna-style



To be sure, I have a habit of taking things literally (people who are close to me will attest to this).

My non-literal answer would be "no" as well.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  21:18:41  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Basically I am/was trying to find out if a certain designer is right...

It's sad to think that they listen to the whiners and look at WOW and EQ and whathaveyou. Tone down the powerful good NPCs or overshadowing (good) NPCs (wouldn't that mean Drizzt'd get the axe as well as he is an overshadowing power in the north?) to get more boss-mob sort of encounters.

If they wanna make money, that's fine with me... but, and I hate to say this, I will refuse to buy any more Realms game stuff and only read whatever novel catches my interest, for reading's sake only and not roleplaying. If Wizards want to piss off their customers, have it their way.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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Zanan
Senior Scribe

Germany
942 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2007 :  21:57:55  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No need to lay into them with these harsh words. You know, there's still a CoC here ... and yes, I just about managed my Will save on another but closely related topic. So I did not go ballistic again.

Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!

Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!

In memory of Alura Durshavin.

Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more.
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1120 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2007 :  00:37:45  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Moradin's Homepage  Click to see Chosen of Moradin's MSN Messenger address Send Chosen of Moradin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that npcs don“t have any power to be a "problem" to a group of players. I think that the basic of rpg is to entertain a group with a good history, good moments spent together.

So, if the players are roleplaying their characters, the description/stats of the npcs is no problem to anyone. This start to be a problem when everyone pass more time looking to npc stats, while they was suposed to be roleplaying their characters, or paying attention the the plot of the DM.

Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P

twitter: @yuripeixoto
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2007 :  03:27:02  Show Profile  Visit Darkmeer's Homepage Send Darkmeer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Honestly, I design adventures so that I DON'T run into any of the big guys. Mainly because I don't feel it's necessary to make a better game by using cameos. They work if used sparingly, but work better when it's actually important to the overall story arc you're using. I've seen it done well, and I've seen it done poorly. It's all a matter of preference. Why worry about Elminster, I run games in the Chultan Peninsula. I could go on here... The only ones I actually worry about are Thayan and Halruuan, and those I can do well

Special edit: Read KnightErrantJR's Mistledale Campaign to see the cameo's done right

/d

"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME."

Edited by - Darkmeer on 08 Dec 2007 02:56:29
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe

USA
436 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2007 :  03:32:38  Show Profile  Send Brynweir an AOL message Send Brynweir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'd have to say that all I knew about when I started was The Crystal Shard. By the time I read anything else I already had my own "style" and I don't think that they had any influence.

As far as intimidation, I guess I could see that, but I've never been in a group that encountered any of the "big" names, so I can't comment. I do have to say that I have never, in general, found the "good guys" intimidating. They're good! why would they intimidate me? (I've never got into the whole celebrity thing either - they're just people)

Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D

He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.

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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2007 :  11:26:43  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not in the least.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Ateth Istarlin
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
80 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2007 :  12:44:01  Show Profile Send Ateth Istarlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think our characters have only met a couple of the "Iconic" characters in our games - and then only for information, between-game training(once), and at a couple of social events.
So, yes they have had a small influence on us - BUT not on on the campaign as a whole.

The more I read about 4FR, the more depressed I am.
Politician - An elected official who tries to be all things to all people, while always looking out for his/her own interests first.
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe

Germany
253 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2007 :  22:08:21  Show Profile  Visit Dart Ambermoon's Homepage Send Dart Ambermoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not in the least...if anything, they enriched my campaigns because they add a lot of flavour to the realms. The reason for that is that most of them have a fairly detailed backstory and history, so they can be used if there“s a purpose or ignored if there isn“t. The only uber-npcs I“ve ever hated with a passion are those that are simply explained as "well, gee, she“s just a mystery, y“know..." in other settings/games (e.g. Naheema in DSA for those who know that).
And besides...iconic or not...that“s still no guarantee for them to survive in my campaign. If a player character kills an icon fair and square, then that“s just that.
Lastly, there“s hardly anything sweeter than dropping down the "right name", just as your players get all sassy and cocky on you...*grins*

~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~
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