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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 03:57:46
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I seem to remember a few months back that Rich, I believe, mentioned that Kir-lanan were as aspect of 3rd edition Realms that they expected to be able to use, but they never proved popular, and so they tended to fade into the background within a few years.
Personally, I have a feeling that if a few novels had actually used these guys, and perhaps they had actually been used as villains in the few encounters they appeared in instead of random encounters, perhaps some "feel" for them might have developed which would have made them more compelling as a force in Faerun.
So, what I'm asking here is, what would you have done to make the kir-lanan a more interesting, integrated into the Realms, and worth taking a look at for a Realms DM?
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1143 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 04:33:23
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With all these gods dying in the coming of 4E I think this would be a great chance for them to make their debut.
As for how I would have used them in 3.x, I initially had plot points for them to try and engineer the death of all the lesser gods, but didn't understand the whole cosmological dynamics to actually make a plot. Now i think 4E is giving me ideas, ironically...
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 04:49:51
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Hm . . . I kind of like the idea of them picking off "weak" gods, though not to cull them from the setting, per se, but as an overall goal.
If I were to give them a victory to encourage them, I'd likely make up a minor demigod that was of my own creation, rather than killing off an established one. Then they could start working on gods that are at a disadvantage, such as Auppenser or Ulutiu.
Also, depending on how strictly the define "divine" power, they might go after a demon lord that has a cult that has sprung up near them.
In general, the kir-lanan might need a dynamic, unifying leader for a big push. The kir-lanan normally aren't the type to be a unified force. Perhaps a kir-lanan necromancer (or, if you have the Dragon Compendium Volume One or the Dragon Magazines with the sorcerous bloodlines articles, a kir-lanan sorcerer with a necromantic bloodline) that pulls together several flights of the vile things for a unified goal.
Step in the right direction, (and while its not going to happen, had this been done in adventure format where PCs could step in to save said sleeping god, it might be a good adventure).
Still, while this would be a good start, I'm still trying to come up with some good solid Realms ties beyond just their origins.
Thanks questing gm, great start. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 07:02:45
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I think the kir-lanan would be natural choices for the clergy of Shar to want to use/manipulate. Have a diguised priest "aim" them at whatever opposing priesthood is convenient, and sit back and watch the fun...  |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 18:38:56
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
So, what I'm asking here is, what would you have done to make the kir-lanan a more interesting, integrated into the Realms, and worth taking a look at for a Realms DM?
Myself, I like them as being 'enemies of the Gods and their servants'. And while I was never able to use it, part of me figuured on them being actually a way for Bhaal to try and return to the Realms (much as both Myrkul and Bane planned for just such an eventuality). However, it didn't work right for him, and thus his kir-lanan are acting on the last shadow of his rage against the other gods who 'betrayed' him.
I had also figured on kir-lanan becoming binders, as a way to get some extra help without having to grovel before deities. And hmm, maybe Bhaal is now a vestige? |
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nb_nmare
Acolyte
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 19:13:32
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| Doesn't Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave feature a group of Kir-lanans who have allied with the clergy of Shar? |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 05:37:59
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I'd toy with the idea of working one or more in as helpful NPCs. Their current goals just happen to coincide (at least in part) with the current goals of the party. Such as breaking up a small but quickly-growing ring of worshipers of [insert little-known evil deity here] who are wreaking local havoc and have great potential to do much farther-reaching damage just as soon as they find the evil artifact that lies in [insert long-lost location here]. The motivations of the kir-lanan and the PCs might differ, but the PCs may not know that, or they may not care, or they may figure that a temporary ally is better than none and they'll just work out their differences after that evil cult is wiped out. The kir-lanans from that adventure might even become a recurring enemy/ally in an ongoing campaign, in a very uneasy interrelationship with the PCs. Or maybe that's too Eberron-ish. Just brainstorming.
And really, why couldn't there be a kir-lanan who's halfway personable, except toward divine casters and evangelical types? Not to imply that most common folk would be personable in return to something that looks like that, but still....I'm a lover of odd possibilities  |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 12:11:06
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| What ARE kir-lanan? I've never heard of them before. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 12:26:28
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
What ARE kir-lanan? I've never heard of them before.
Unless my memory is playing tricks on me they are a sort of atheist gargoyles of the underdark. I think they are in the 3ed. Campaign setting. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 12:42:36
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| The Kir-Lanan are also described in Races in Faerun (in more depth than in the FRCS). Technically they are not atheists because they aknowledge the existence of gods who they want to destroy. If they would not believe that gods exists they would not have the desire to battle and destroy them. |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 12:44:59
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Khorne: To get a image look here:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/rof_gallery/49701.jpg
The picture is from Races of Faerun, where you'll find more of them 
Edit Mod: Overlaped with the post before ...
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Edited by - Matthus on 27 Nov 2007 12:47:57 |
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glitter
Acolyte
France
45 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 17:22:22
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quote:
Originally posted by nb_nmare
Doesn't Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave feature a group of Kir-lanans who have allied with the clergy of Shar?
I'm trying to set up a high level campaign with Kir Lanan.
I decided that Shar is trying to help these "poor ol' Kir Lanan" as much as she can, and Cyrix too when he can.
Among the KL population, there is 4 specific members (a "shadow" of 4 dead gods).
My main problem is to imagine how they would organized themselves with a quite low against so many believers.
So, until now, they are mobile forces flying in the shadows (shar ?) from cities to cities and attack the churches there in a sudden attack.
I made them impervious to most divination powers 
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-The black knight is invincible!
- You’re a looney. |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 21:55:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
Khorne: To get a image look here:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/rof_gallery/49701.jpg
Hmm...I guess I never pictured them as mammals before (though I must admit I haven't read RoF)... |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 03:09:36
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quote:
Originally posted by nb_nmare
Doesn't Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave feature a group of Kir-lanans who have allied with the clergy of Shar?
Yeah, for some reason, I didn't like the idea that they would team up with one clergy just to screw another one. I always got the impression that they really hated the gods, as a class of being, or a concept, not in "tiers" per se.
If I use the Cormyr adventure, I may have to play up that the Kir-Lanan were, as per Wooly's idea, duped into helping Cyric and Shar's churches, rather than allying because they hate Mystra more, or however that was reconciled.
I know it mentions specifically in Lords of Darkness that they might consider a temporary alliance with Shar's followers, and even mentions Cyric in there, and that Races of Faerun mentions the potential Shar truce as well, but for some reason this just doesn't sit right with me.
I like the idea about the binders. I can see them viewing vestiges as almost a way of using the defeated spirits of divine and near divine beings to do their will, though I imagine they would really had making a bad pact and feeling like they were influenced by their vestige.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 28 Nov 2007 03:21:30 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 01:18:57
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To be honest, since I first read the kir-lanan entry in RoF, I thought it begs a plot involving the ur-priest PrC, particularly since they have a bardy-type caste (kivar?), and bards seem the easiest entry into ur-priest...both in RAW and fluff...perhaps discovering thru bardic knowledge the dark lore providing the kir-lanan their big-break against the gods and godslaves.
The trick is the soulless trait. I realize it reads they cannot use any divine magic, and that inspires their fluff. But is a soul required to steal divine energy?
Otherwise I 'spect they'll reach a critical mass of population and the godslaves will have to unite ("Godslaves of the world, UNITE!") for a grand Realms-shaking purge of their rookeries. Speaking of grand Realms-shaking...goes the new Grand History of the Realms add to the kir-lanan lore? |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 01:30:29
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gods-darn mobile internet....
the many posts were a result of, from my internet, none of them posting, and me retrying. errrrr. my apologies.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 01:35:29
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| No worries Monk. I've removed the excess double-posts for you. For future reference, you can remove double-posts yourself by using the "Delete Reply" function [the little icon with the trash can] on the top border of your post's control panel. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 01:42:33
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tymora's blessings upon ye, sage.
thanks for sharing the wisdom. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 22:28:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the kir-lanan would be natural choices for the clergy of Shar to want to use/manipulate. Have a diguised priest "aim" them at whatever opposing priesthood is convenient, and sit back and watch the fun...
Just looking for anything on the Kir-lanan, and came across this thread.
You didn't happen to work on 4e, did you Wooly?
For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, it appears they work for Shar in 4e. I've heard of them, but I can't remember what book they were in. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 22:55:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've heard of them, but I can't remember what book they were in.
In the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting as monsters (pg 312)and in Races of Faerun as a race (pg 137). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 23:31:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the kir-lanan would be natural choices for the clergy of Shar to want to use/manipulate. Have a diguised priest "aim" them at whatever opposing priesthood is convenient, and sit back and watch the fun...
Just looking for anything on the Kir-lanan, and came across this thread.
You didn't happen to work on 4e, did you Wooly?
For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, it appears they work for Shar in 4e. I've heard of them, but I can't remember what book they were in.
Heh. My idea, though, was that the kir-lanan didn't know they were serving Shar. Since they hate deities, it makes sense for a disguised priest to manipulate them into attacking another priesthood. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 03:28:54
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As usual, the fan idea is better then the official one.
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've heard of them, but I can't remember what book they were in.
In the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting as monsters (pg 312)and in Races of Faerun as a race (pg 137).
I could have sworn that they appeared somewhere in 2e, but not the Realms...
They seem to be an update of the Margoyle.
Anyway, thanks for all the info. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Aug 2008 03:29:26 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 11:36:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
No worries Monk. I've removed the excess double-posts for you. For future reference, you can remove double-posts yourself by using the "Delete Reply" function [the little icon with the trash can] on the top border of your post's control panel.
Ah, so that's how it's done; many thanks  |
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1143 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 08:36:11
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Greetings fellow scribes and loremasters,
It's nice to be back here after awhile. I don't know if you all are aware of the latest excerpt?
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/frpreview_shar.pdf
Apparently the Kir-Lanans are already under her service, just thought I should let everyone know. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 01:05:16
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I have found that it's easy to get Kir-Lanan to work; what's hard is finding a medical and dental plan to which they will agree.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 02:36:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I have found that it's easy to get Kir-Lanan to work; what's hard is finding a medical and dental plan to which they will agree.
Realms Monsters Local #517! |
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Curst_Lanan
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2008 : 21:53:45
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I've been thinking about the Kir-Lanans a lot recently. Their race has such an impossible goal that they pretty much need to be invincible. Well, what if a high level Kir-Lanan necromancer made a small army of Curst Kir-Lanans. Then you have a nigh indestructible army with a slight tendency towards absentmindedness. It could be even worse if the necromancer used bestow greater curse, then you'd have to wish the Kir-Lanans to death.
Undead don't need souls, and the Kir-Lanan are pretty much born cursed anyways, so why not take the next step? Give them the bodies they need to match their hate and make them equal to their challenge. |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 01:22:28
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Sweet idea, Curst_Lanan! Wicked!
I'd definitely use this for the most disaffected subset of the K-L community--and enjoy tossing them at the PCs! But I like the tragic element of the K-L's lack of souls, so if all exchanged life for the übercursed path of undeath they'd lose, IMO, the most human element. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 05:58:41
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| I'm not sure I understand why they'd need to be invincible... If they stayed in the background and played everyone off everyone else, they'd be able to do a lot of damage without ever getting into combat. |
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Curst_Lanan
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 06:08:07
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If I understand the Curst right, they're pretty much cursed to live until the fulfill whatever they've been cursed with. To me, cursing K-Ls seems kind of redundant, because they have no real hope for a fulfilling life and have no afterlife whatsoever. They have an average 15 year lifespan and they aren't big on individuality. They're practically Spartans.
What's more is that they're born with an innate knowledge of why they exist, which is like knowing when you're born that you were an unwanted child and understanding the implications thereof. There's no sense of wonder, just hatred.
They're really more of a force of nature, intelligent and cruel, than an actual community. It's a shame they just got dumped on Shar when they're desperately asking for a villain to lead their cause, not abuse it.
EDIT: The Kir-Lanans want to kill gods. All of them. Being invincible is pretty much the only way. |
Edited by - Curst_Lanan on 05 Sep 2008 06:09:48 |
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Kir-Lanan: Making Them Work
