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Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 08:06:22
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On another thread here in the Keep, another contributor remarked that they had read somewhere that the Skulls of Skullport had been defeated and (presumably) were no longer ruling Skullport.
Can anyone confirm whether this is true and provide the source if possible?
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 08:49:49
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I have not heard from such an event in any particular sourcebook. That of course does not mean that it did not happen. The last books that most likely hold such news would be City of Splenders: Waterdeep or Expedition to Undermountain. The first I have read but don't recall of any such event, the second I have only scanned briefly and might have missed this bit of news easily.
So much for now. If you have those books you might want to look there for yourself. Otherwise, you'll have to wait for a better answer. Some scribe within Candlekeep will certainly know this...
Ergudsch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 10:16:31
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Thanks Ergdusch - it appears that there is a reference to this event in "City of Splendors" - some of the Skulls are destroyed by some artifact mayhem etc.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 12:25:44
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Would you be so kind to give the exact reference to this?! I'd be interested in re-reading that part than.......
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 12:42:03
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I have another possible source  .
In the Erevis Cale Trilogy there was a battle in Skullport which attracted the skulls. In the end they where defeated, but I don’t want to tell more because of possible spoilers.
The battle should be in last book of the series Midnight’s Mask – but there I may be wrong - it could be in Dawn of Night also...
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 16:03:58
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| The Waterdeep passage is in reference to the 1st Cale trilogy but I don't believe ALL of them were destroyed, only some of them. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 16:10:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Waterdeep passage is in reference to the 1st Cale trilogy but I don't believe ALL of them were destroyed, only some of them.
Yes, that is how I interpereted it as well. Not all were destroyed. Just 2 or 3?? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 17:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Waterdeep passage is in reference to the 1st Cale trilogy but I don't believe ALL of them were destroyed, only some of them.
Yes, that is how I interpereted it as well. Not all were destroyed. Just 2 or 3??
That is how I interpreted it as well. Though who knows what will happen to them with the Spellplague. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 18:36:19
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Waterdeep passage is in reference to the 1st Cale trilogy but I don't believe ALL of them were destroyed, only some of them.
Yes, that is how I interpereted it as well. Not all were destroyed. Just 2 or 3??
I wouldn't be surprised if they got better again! What's a little death to a Netherese Arcanist / Archwizard / Epic monster, hmmm? I continue with a spoiler opinion. (Sweep your cursor over it to make it visible.)
I seem to recall that by the end of the Erevis Cale trilogy the Skullport "mantle" (mythallar? mythal?) was healing itself. If it recovered, the "killed" Skulls may come back. Or am I in error? (Wouldn't be the first time, probably won't be the last. I haven't slept in two days. 
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 20:47:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Waterdeep passage is in reference to the 1st Cale trilogy but I don't believe ALL of them were destroyed, only some of them.
That's correct. I read the Erevis Cale trilogy, and I distinctly recall that NOT all the skulls were destroyed. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 01:14:17
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Well, maybe it is my non-native English
They were defeated: never said anything else, nothing else was asked – please correct me  .
Spoilers:
Well I would assume that destroying some of them is a defeat, cause after bringing the mythal down and the arriving of reinforcement Erevis and his partners had to leave – but nobody from his party was dead – or would you vote for a draw then?
Its true that only some were destroyed, but it was a "First" in a long time . So there might be lack in controlling Skullport as such, and also there might be some characters who have something to gain from this.
Also the battle may have shifted the influence off some of the slave traders – have you some information about this? |
Edited by - Matthus on 22 Nov 2007 01:21:41 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 04:27:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Waterdeep passage is in reference to the 1st Cale trilogy but I don't believe ALL of them were destroyed, only some of them.
Yes, that is how I interpereted it as well. Not all were destroyed. Just 2 or 3??
I wouldn't be surprised if they got better again! What's a little death to a Netherese Arcanist / Archwizard / Epic monster, hmmm? I continue with a spoiler opinion. (Sweep your cursor over it to make it visible.)
I seem to recall that by the end of the Erevis Cale trilogy the Skullport "mantle" (mythallar? mythal?) was healing itself. If it recovered, the "killed" Skulls may come back. Or am I in error? (Wouldn't be the first time, probably won't be the last. I haven't slept in two days.
Yes I believe it was "fixing itself", so I suppose the skulls in question could regenerate. But I would like to see them stay destroyed, I would not mind seeing a little shake up in skullport! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 06:36:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Would you be so kind to give the exact reference to this?! I'd be interested in re-reading that part than.......
Ergdusch - pages 109-111 of City of Splendors |
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Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 06:37:32
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And thanks to everyone else that posted on this topic!
I'll have to get up to the Cale books - I'm still back in 1993 on my FR reading list!! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 15:30:18
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Okay, I rechecked the text from the Waterdeep sourcebook, since it was newer, and it says what I said. Four of the Skulls were destroyed, the rest were turned into true undead but they are not destroyed, so not ALL of them are destroyed during the Cale trilogy.
Plus the Mythal still exists, according to Waterdeep. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 22 Nov 2007 15:31:38 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 04:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Theophilus
And thanks to everyone else that posted on this topic!
I'll have to get up to the Cale books - I'm still back in 1993 on my FR reading list!!
The Ervis Cale series is one of may all-time Realms favorites. It may even have a higher place than the Drizzt ones, I am not sure. Anyways, I suggest that anyone beginning on the Ervis Cale series start with Shadow's Witness. Yes, it is part of the Sembia series, but it works well as a stand-alone novel too. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 09:42:40
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| Better yet, start with the Cale short story in Halls of Stormweather. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2007 : 19:54:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Okay, I rechecked the text from the Waterdeep sourcebook, since it was newer, and it says what I said. Four of the Skulls were destroyed, the rest were turned into true undead but they are not destroyed, so not ALL of them are destroyed during the Cale trilogy.
Plus the Mythal still exists, according to Waterdeep.
Merci.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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9thChapter
Learned Scribe
Canada
110 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2013 : 06:49:35
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RE: Erevis Cale trilogy
I can confirm that in Dawn of Night, to the North of Skullport, two skulls were destroyed. A third was stunned and in my view, would have also been taken out if (I will avoid any spoilers)...
@Hawkins - agree with you completely. The Cale sereies is perhaps one of the best series in the Realms based on my experience thus far.
Definitely start with Halls of Stormweather, then Shadow's Witnes, then Dragon 277, then the Cale trilogy proper! Kemp is a masterful character based storyteller who loves his Realmslore.
@Theophilus - I am with you, I am trying to read as much as I can (huge backlog) :) |
Fantasy author of The Rithhek Cage series
http://darrentpatrick.com/the-rithhek-cage-trilogy/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2013 : 14:24:27
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Didn't someone somewhere say that the skulls could have regenerated? If it was Ed, that would make it canon.
On the other hand, if the mythal was destroyed/damaged during the time period in which those skulls were destroyed, then that could be why they couldn't come back.
Hmmmm... that was one of the few bits in that series I didn't like - the ease in which the skulls were taken out. Perhaps the weakening of the Undermountain Mythal also weakened the skulls? (at least temporarily?) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Jan 2013 14:24:50 |
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9thChapter
Learned Scribe
Canada
110 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2013 : 17:59:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Didn't someone somewhere say that the skulls could have regenerated? If it was Ed, that would make it canon.
On the other hand, if the mythal was destroyed/damaged during the time period in which those skulls were destroyed, then that could be why they couldn't come back.
Hmmmm... that was one of the few bits in that series I didn't like - the ease in which the skulls were taken out. Perhaps the weakening of the Undermountain Mythal also weakened the skulls? (at least temporarily?)
(warning for spoilers in Cale trilogoy disclaimer)...
In the last portion of DoN, the Mythal was certainly compromised. Logic would have it, based on my read of it, that no one would have survived the destruction; assuming it/they were destroyed in it. If they weren't completely destroyed, weakened would make sense to me.
I'm just starting Midnight's Mask so am not certain if that will be resolved or not. Somehow, I think not. I believe Skullport and The Skulls are only in DoN. |
Fantasy author of The Rithhek Cage series
http://darrentpatrick.com/the-rithhek-cage-trilogy/ |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2013 : 04:37:20
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From what I understand of the "mantle" of Skullport and the relationship it possesses with the Skulls is that somehow thats how the Skulls are able to work magic. Perhaps they draw upon the mantle's energy and if the mantle is weak, they are also weak. Thus if mantle is recovering it would not be so hard to imagine the skulls regaining their strength.
Somehow the Skulls did not strike me as "oh you destroyed im dead" kind of creatures. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2013 : 14:13:21
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Yes, which is why I said I found that to be one the weakest parts of that series (but overall, its still amongst my favorites... and not just FR).
The skulls had every major Underdark race cringing in fear for centuries, and then a couple of adventurers wander in and wreck the place? It made NO sense. This is why I would rather think that the Weave Tap greatly weakened Undermountain's mythal, and therefor the skulls themselves were greatly weakened (knowledge none of the inhabitants of Skullport would have had, and been able to use accordingly).
The other problem is this: If the inhabitants did find out about the battle - which they should have - and notice some skulls were gone, then all hell should have broken loose. But it didn't... just like everything else in FR, the novels send nary a ripple of disturbance across the world (even when they are saving it).
I'd like to see some sort of article or short story addressing this - to me, its a major continuity gaff. Someone should have tried to take-over Skullport, and then found-out the hard way that Mythal had been fully restored (after the weave Tap was removed and used).
We also had a restored Halaster at that point (he had gotten his right mind back by then), so he should have become involved with those sorts of forces right under his nose (not to mention Larloch, who keeps tabs on everything he does). Probably the best way to weave all of that is to have those folks 'working in the background' to maintain order (until the power was restored). Just the sort of thing Ed is good at writing. Elminster isn't the only 'superman' holding down the fort. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jan 2013 14:15:23 |
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9thChapter
Learned Scribe
Canada
110 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2013 : 17:55:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The other problem is this: If the inhabitants did find out about the battle - which they should have - and notice some skulls were gone, then all hell should have broken loose. But it didn't... just like everything else in FR, the novels send nary a ripple of disturbance across the world (even when they are saving it).
I'd like to see some sort of article or short story addressing this - to me, its a major continuity gaff. Someone should have tried to take-over Skullport, and then found-out the hard way that Mythal had been fully restored (after the weave Tap was removed and used).
We also had a restored Halaster at that point (he had gotten his right mind back by then), so he should have become involved with those sorts of forces right under his nose (not to mention Larloch, who keeps tabs on everything he does). Probably the best way to weave all of that is to have those folks 'working in the background' to maintain order (until the power was restored). Just the sort of thing Ed is good at writing. Elminster isn't the only 'superman' holding down the fort.
That is a good point, Markustay. I had never thought of the ripple effect (ie., all hell breaks loose in an epic battle not too far from the Northern edge of Skullport, some Skulls go missing, then the cavern partially collapses....and no one attempt a coup).
Perhaps there is an opportunity for a short story here...Dragon magazine perhaps or ? |
Fantasy author of The Rithhek Cage series
http://darrentpatrick.com/the-rithhek-cage-trilogy/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 15:49:22
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Weird idea for 5e - "The skull cluster"
After all the magical chaos is over, the skulls (and maybe a few new ones - there's a mystery!) form into a 'skull clump' - a beholder-sized ball of twisted skulls (and bones?) that floats around Undermountain. It would serve the same purpose as before, but now it is even more gruesome (and deadly - it can see in all directions and fire beams of magical energy from its eyes). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2013 : 13:54:41
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From the Skullport Sourcebook:
While an individual Skull can be damaged or even destroyed, the port's mantle immediately reforms defeated Skulls, even if they are disintegrated. Destroyed Skulls always reform from the skull of an unlucky victim, chosen at random from the currently resident human population of Skullport. Any remnants of the Skull's prior form immediately dissolve as the new form emerges, usually in a spectacularly bloody fashion, from the new host. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 11:01:53
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The mantle was considerably damaged during the battle, though, so its state might have affected its former ability to regenerate fallen Skulls. Maybe the Skulls could still be restored, but not as potent as they used to be. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 15:50:08
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| I think they'd still regenerate, perhaps it would take a longer time due to depleted resources. But the damaged mantle might be a good way to free their current slaves and get two powerful independent NPC spellcasters. |
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Skulls of Skullport?
