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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 28 May 2003 : 14:35:32
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Here's those gnome stats I promised a while back.
Please be aware that the main reason these stats exist is to fufill a player request to bring a 'tinker-gnome' flavor to the FR.
Here's what I have so far -
Gnomes (Tinkerers in FR)
- +2 Int, -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Wis
- Small Size: +1 AC and +1 to Hit +4 to Hide checks
- +2 racial bonus to Disable Device, Open Lock, Alchemy, to any Craft, Knowledge, and Profession checks
- All Craft skills, and all Knowledge and Profession skills that involving mechanics are always considered to be class skills
- +2 Reflex saving throws
- Darkvision 60 feet
- Proficiencies: Crossbows and other mechanical devices
- Favored Class: Tinkerer or Rogue
Let me known what you think. I have mixed feelings about adding Tinker gnomes to my FR game, but I thought it would be interesting to at least create some stats and see whether they were any good.
Special Note: The Tinkerer class will be detailed soon. I still haven't finished adapting the class from the DL setting yet.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2003 : 21:17:09
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| Not bad, not bad, but one thing: shouldn't this come with like a +1 ECL or something? Possibly even a +2? It seems like a lot of extra class skills and stat bonuses to mot come with at least a little experience penalty. Beyond that, the only thing that seems out of place is the wisdom penatly, what was you reasoning for that? The Gnomes hardly seem to be an overly foolish or common sense-lacking people. Now, I surmise this was likely to balance out for the other bonuses, but perhaps a constitution penatly might be a better choice, in my opinion, of course. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2003 : 07:59:05
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Thanks for picking that up Edain. Once again I forgot to add an ECL, just like the minotaurs stats I created. Anyway for all intents and purposes these gnomes operate as ECL +1, although due to some refinements I have been conducting here, I may soon change that to ECL +2.
As for the wisdom penaltly. The player wished these gnomes to represent the DL tinker gnomes lack of foresight, and poor judgment when it came to building things than would more often than not break down, or explode. I simply felt that a lack of good judgement (being wisdom) would reflect that.
But as I said, I am currently reworking the stats, so I will see how it goes.
Thanks,
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2003 : 08:35:27
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| I like the wisdom penalty; it made sense to me right from the start. As for the ECL, I think that as it stands a +1 is just right. We'll see if that changes with your other adjustments. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2003 : 08:39:24
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I should have some new adjustments and stats by next week Bookwyrm, so check back then.
And thanks for the comments, I appreciate them  .
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2003 : 04:01:02
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| Okay, I see where you are going with this. While I still stand by my opinion on the wisdom, you do make a certain sense. And yeah, +1 sounds about right, they aren't nearly as overpowering as Drow or Deep Gnomes or anything like that, they just have a bit of an edge. Look forward to your updates. And remember those ECLs. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2003 : 07:06:54
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Thanks Edain, I have a few more modified stats for the FR races coming, so I appreciate anyone who takes the time to study and comment on them.
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 11:48:04
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well, im not sure it has to get an ECL +1 since its all balanced like the regular gnome, isn't it?
Or u may just add something else to get this +1. Something the gnomes have, u know innate spells or something like that.
What do u think? |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 12:03:08
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| She has a point about the spells. But I think it's a +1 as it stands. It seems pretty powerfull as far as intellect is concerned. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 12:11:05
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The innate spells are only really relevant for the gnome racial traits if the favored class was an Illusionist. I have tried to do away with that, instead making the gnome more in line with how I actually see them. I prefer the 'Tinkerer' gnome aspect rather than the Illusionist. To me it has never seemed quite 'right'.
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 12:35:25
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and do u think that sun elf should have ECL +1 since they have also a +2 in intelligence and have mage as a prestige class still? And these gnomes have a-2 in wisdom which is for me a big matter to deal with.
Yep, so mayb give them something else, i don't know what, have no idea yet. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 12:37:46
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| I wasn't talking about the abilities. I was talking about the skills. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 12:40:04
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Tinkerer gnomes are often known for their absent-minded nature, and I chose to represent this with a wisdom penalty. As for the ECL +1 for Sun Elves, well no, since elves are regarded naturally as a highly intelligent species.
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 13:37:02
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| yep, i stil think a -2 in wisdom is a good idea. Its not the point, i mean that if u compare u race with an aasimar, the coice is quickly done. U don't get any bonus eventually with ur gnome, u see, whereas aasimars get a +4 total, plus their special abilities. Its just why i think its still not enough to make a level lost. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 14:00:10
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Your suggestions seem valid eilinel. I'll take them under consideration while I revise these stats.
I am also working on some elven stats as well.
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2003 : 22:38:14
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| I really disagree with Eilinel here. If you look at the entire Gnome, not just the ability scores it's pretty potent. I mean, alone the ability score bonuses and penalties are okay, but the skill bonuses and additional class skills are a pretty powerful addition. Without them the ECL +1 may be too much, but with them it's good. A +2 would be overpowering though, so as is it seems to work okay, at least to me. I might just play test it if I have time to prove it. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2003 : 07:22:49
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If you do, Edain be sure to let me know of the results, as I will not have the opportunity to play-test the racial stats for several more weeks yet. I am curious to know how they would operate in an actual game environment.
May your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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eilinel
Learned Scribe
France
296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 14:47:09
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compared with a regular gnome, there is nothing really new but the fact that u add +2 in a lot of skills but u have not the magical bonus that the speak with animals and the several spells give u, so...
i know that this gnome is more potent than the regular one but not enough for me to lose a level... u see my point? |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 01:43:58
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| Well, the regular Gnome, or Rock Gnome, does not benefit from any special abilities or statistic bonuses. The only Gnomes with the special abilities you described, Eilinel, are Forest Gnomes, who come with a ECL +1. This Gnome is much more potent than the regular Gnome (or Rock Gnome), who carries no inherant bonuses, not even a minor stat. bonus/penatly like Elves. As such I maintain the logic behind the ECL +1. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 06:39:48
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I am currently working on an alternative to the ECL system. I am not happy with the way it affects so greatly, PC's at lower levels. Although I understand the reason for it, I still have some qualms with it. What this means is, according to my new workings, the gnome stat'd here may no longer be ECL +1.
I still have some tinkering to do with the system, so I let you all know what happens.
Good learning...
- The Sage of Perth: For all your Realms Lore needs
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 06:43:11
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| What about making it an XP penalty, like with multiclassing? I don't really know how much that would affect things, or if it would be any better, but it's something I've been thinking about. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 06:59:40
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Actually Bookwyrm, that's not a bad idea. And the good thing about this idea is that it won't upset much of anything else. I think they did something like this back in 1e. I'll have to check my 1e PHB, and DMG.
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Gnomes
