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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 19:08:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Mages have always been able to cast level nine spells before ToB came out; the original level cap allowed it fine.
No it didn't. The original XP cap only allowed single class mages to reach level 17, which, in 2E, was only high enough to cast level 8 spells.
You could cast level 9 spells from scrolls, though.
I rest my case.
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The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 15:49:20
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| Why do people think drizzt is difficult to kill? really, I'm really not bragging but isn't his party one lesser than yours and spellless. |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 16:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Why do people think drizzt is difficult to kill? really, I'm really not bragging but isn't his party one lesser than yours and spellless.
it doesn't take a lot to kill your party either. just kill one person, and Voila! disintegrating hand! |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 17:45:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Why do people think drizzt is difficult to kill? really, I'm really not bragging but isn't his party one lesser than yours and spellless.
Drizzt and his companions are actually a bit "pumped up" in the game, though. For example, I recall Cattie-Brie having very high magic resistance, which she technically shouldn't have. Also, there is no way to prepare ahead of time for that battle. As soon as you enter that particular map (made solely for the Drizzt encounter), you are immediately locked into dialogue with Drizzt and company, and if you end up fighting them, the fight starts right after you are done talking.
And the majority of spell-based protections you had before traveling to that map would have likely worn off thanks to the travel time. So yes, the Drizzt encounter is difficult thanks to a number of factors. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 31 Oct 2007 17:46:39 |
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Caedwyr
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 18:54:08
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If you've played the game a lot, then most battle such as the Drizzt fight are going to be easy. The lack of any enemy spellcasting power or dispelling abilities means you can make yourself immune to their damage pretty fast, and they don't really have much in the way of non-melee defenses either.
It's largely an AI issue though. A properly scripted battle in which Drizzt and friends properly set up the encounter and utilize the terrain to their advantage could be fairly unpleasant.
Another thing to note, is that most of their items/weapons are not anything special. Catterbie in particular is just using a copy of Tasheron (elven long bow) and Varsacona (long sword +2, 2 cold damage I think). I believe the Improved Battles mod has a component that improves the Drizzt fight for those interested. It may do some cheesy stuff though, I can't remember. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 19:02:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Caedwyr
I believe the Improved Battles mod has a component that improves the Drizzt fight for those interested. It may do some cheesy stuff though, I can't remember.
I'd bet that it would--as far as I recall, those mods that make the battles harder also make them cheesier. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Caedwyr
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 21:24:56
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| There's a select few out there that only improve the AI in a non-cheating way (you can do everything the enemies do), but they are few and far between. Most like you said have more cheese than a delicatessen. |
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 01:55:08
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| Not prepared = scroll of timestop |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 12:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Caedwyr
If you've played the game a lot, then most battle such as the Drizzt fight are going to be easy. The lack of any enemy spellcasting power or dispelling abilities means you can make yourself immune to their damage pretty fast, and they don't really have much in the way of non-melee defenses either.
I Imported all highest level characters and put all the best defensive spells I had as well as summoning 2 sets of polar bears and an earth elemental |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 22:11:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
quote:
Originally posted by Caedwyr
If you've played the game a lot, then most battle such as the Drizzt fight are going to be easy. The lack of any enemy spellcasting power or dispelling abilities means you can make yourself immune to their damage pretty fast, and they don't really have much in the way of non-melee defenses either.
I Imported all highest level characters and put all the best defensive spells I had as well as summoning 2 sets of polar bears and an earth elemental
Eh, mage-summoned elementals suck (that and a waste of rounds while the mage's incapacitated). Try druid's fire elemental. Or, you know, the ones from mages and clerics that are actually decent: high-level Animate Dead, Aerial Servant, Invisible Stalker, and so on. All the "Monster Summoning __" are useless except as cannon fodder for spellcasting enemies to waste their instant-death spells on.
Tactical "improved battles" mods tend to give enemies Time Stop and immunity to Time Stop for the whole enemy party (i.e. when their mage casts Time Stop, their entire group can still act). I don't really bother with them. |
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Caedwyr
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 23:46:50
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Stoneskin, Protection From Magical Weapons, Mantle spells all will help out against a melee heavy enemy party. Physical Mirror and the Reflection Shield help against Catte-brie's bow attacks. Drizzt's summoned panther can probably be dealt with a Death Spell or Death Fog. Even something like casting a confusion spell amongst them can wreak havoc on their attacks. Teleport field is another fun spell to limit how often they can close to range. Mislead, improved invisibility and the Staff of the Magi are good choices for preventing attacks, and throwing a sanctuary on your cleric can help provided you do not take any offensive action.
Incidently, if you want to do a fun and tactically challenging fight against an enemy party that plays by all the rules, check out the Chosen of Cyric fight from the Rogue Rebalancing mod (Chosen here means elite group of assassins that work for the Church of Cyric, not "Chosen" as in Storm, Quile, etc.) It is very faithful to 2nd edition mechanics and showcases what the thief class along with a balanced party can do if given proper AI.
I'll second Karzak's suggestion about summons, and go one further to say that other than a select few such as Skeleton Warriors and Mordekian's Sword they are largely cannon fodder to distract your enemies. |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 15:45:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
quote:
Originally posted by Caedwyr
If you've played the game a lot, then most battle such as the Drizzt fight are going to be easy. The lack of any enemy spellcasting power or dispelling abilities means you can make yourself immune to their damage pretty fast, and they don't really have much in the way of non-melee defenses either.
I Imported all highest level characters and put all the best defensive spells I had as well as summoning 2 sets of polar bears and an earth elemental
Eh, mage-summoned elementals suck (that and a waste of rounds while the mage's incapacitated). Try druid's fire elemental. Or, you know, the ones from mages and clerics that are actually decent: high-level Animate Dead, Aerial Servant, Invisible Stalker, and so on. All the "Monster Summoning __" are useless except as cannon fodder for spellcasting enemies to waste their instant-death spells on.
Tactical "improved battles" mods tend to give enemies Time Stop and immunity to Time Stop for the whole enemy party (i.e. when their mage casts Time Stop, their entire group can still act). I don't really bother with them.
but again I had all top level characters, so logic suggests me point out that if you could beat t, I should have been able to as well |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:03:25
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quote:
On another note, I was going to play through the entire BG series, using BG Tutu so I could play the classes from BG2 in BG1, but then my hard drive (I had 2) that had the game on it died. On my working hard drive I have just enough space for Windows, Office, and WoW.
It's the important things that count. |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 11:59:08
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There's also the idea that you instantly reload the game as soon as one of your characters dies...especially in that fight where Drizzt coud easily make them explode making it impossible to Res.
On a side note, the fight with the Twisted Rune also requires to be harder IMO. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 11:59:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
and i have a sheild
Which shield do you have??? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 13:02:38
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
quote:
On another note, I was going to play through the entire BG series, using BG Tutu so I could play the classes from BG2 in BG1, but then my hard drive (I had 2) that had the game on it died. On my working hard drive I have just enough space for Windows, Office, and WoW.
It's the important things that count.
Class/race/spec of main? |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 14:03:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
quote:
On another note, I was going to play through the entire BG series, using BG Tutu so I could play the classes from BG2 in BG1, but then my hard drive (I had 2) that had the game on it died. On my working hard drive I have just enough space for Windows, Office, and WoW.
It's the important things that count.
Class/race/spec of main?
Oh Jeez...
70 Hunter, Night Elf, MM currently, but switching to cookie cutter BM to farm primals.
70 Mage, Human, Frost, soon to be arena-bound.
70 Druid, Tauren, Feral - ccat duridz r 4 clawz
62 Paladin, Blood Elf, Holy - the almight Strawberri
70 Rogue, Human, Sword-Spec Combat - also Arena time.
Yeah, when I said I stopped playing FR/Table-top for WoW, I wasn't kidding.  |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 14:34:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
On a side note, the fight with the Twisted Rune also requires to be harder IMO.
I thought it was difficult enough, especially considering the fact that you could stumble upon that group early in the game, when it would be nearly (if not completely) impossible to defeat them. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 17:06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
On a side note, the fight with the Twisted Rune also requires to be harder IMO.
I thought it was difficult enough, especially considering the fact that you could stumble upon that group early in the game, when it would be nearly (if not completely) impossible to defeat them.
True, but it could have been a little bit harder. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 22:19:23
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Oh Jeez...
70 Hunter, Night Elf, MM currently, but switching to cookie cutter BM to farm primals.
70 Mage, Human, Frost, soon to be arena-bound.
70 Druid, Tauren, Feral - ccat duridz r 4 clawz
62 Paladin, Blood Elf, Holy - the almight Strawberri
70 Rogue, Human, Sword-Spec Combat - also Arena time.
Yeah, when I said I stopped playing FR/Table-top for WoW, I wasn't kidding.
D: nelf hunter. I hope he's not called Legolas or Drizzt.
70 BM draenei huntard/70 aff-destro human lock here (with a slowly leveling 36 enh shaman - not many alts, here, because I raided with the warlock for a long time and only started doing alts once I'd gone casual), though account's not active right now. Going to go back to it in a month and a bit; hopefully I'll be able to do a bit of ZA. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 22:55:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Oh Jeez...
70 Hunter, Night Elf, MM currently, but switching to cookie cutter BM to farm primals.
70 Mage, Human, Frost, soon to be arena-bound.
70 Druid, Tauren, Feral - ccat duridz r 4 clawz
62 Paladin, Blood Elf, Holy - the almight Strawberri
70 Rogue, Human, Sword-Spec Combat - also Arena time.
Yeah, when I said I stopped playing FR/Table-top for WoW, I wasn't kidding.
D: nelf hunter. I hope he's not called Legolas or Drizzt.
70 BM draenei huntard/70 aff-destro human lock here (with a slowly leveling 36 enh shaman - not many alts, here, because I raided with the warlock for a long time and only started doing alts once I'd gone casual), though account's not active right now. Going to go back to it in a month and a bit; hopefully I'll be able to do a bit of ZA.
Nah, it's a she, and her name is Caerlin. ^^
Yeah, we just entered the Eye, a little behind the curve, but I hope to see BT soon enough. Silly Illidan, give me your Tier 6!! |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 12:54:58
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| Sorry, guys, but the topic was Drizzt in BG not anything about WoW. Please stick to the topic. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 14:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
Sorry, guys, but the topic was Drizzt in BG not anything about WoW. Please stick to the topic.
Sure, Drizzt is a pushover and BGII is not really in circulation much anymore, but I do remember killing him and the party he was with back in like... '00 or something, whenever that game came out (like 7 years ago or so). NWN was a far better game and showed the true grace the FR games deserved. NWN2 did it even better, but still didn't have much commericial success. So, yep, killed him a long time ago. 
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 15:53:34
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
Sorry, guys, but the topic was Drizzt in BG not anything about WoW. Please stick to the topic.
Sure, Drizzt is a pushover and BGII is not really in circulation much anymore, but I do remember killing him and the party he was with back in like... '00 or something, whenever that game came out (like 7 years ago or so). NWN was a far better game and showed the true grace the FR games deserved. NWN2 did it even better, but still didn't have much commericial success. So, yep, killed him a long time ago.
C-Fb
I don't know, I felt Baldurs Gate was a better fit than Neverwinter Nights for the Realms. Then again, I didn't like that game and gave up before I was halfway through the game.
Sorry for going of-topic. |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 16:27:06
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Sure, Drizzt is a pushover and BGII is not really in circulation much anymore, but I do remember killing him and the party he was with back in like... '00 or something, whenever that game came out (like 7 years ago or so). NWN was a far better game and showed the true grace the FR games deserved. NWN2 did it even better, but still didn't have much commericial success. So, yep, killed him a long time ago.
C-Fb
I disagree. NWN at release was a disgrace - areas that look all the same thanks to tilesets, extremely outdated graphics even for that time, and a perfectly atrocious official campaign(formulaic story, horrible horrible NPC AI, etc). BG2 had a lot more life and color to it, not to mention a much better story and more fleshed-out joinable NPCs. That and the Aurora Engine is very clumsy, especially considering the awful, awful UI (Bioware can learn a thing or two from Blizzard). I can't imagine why anyone would think NWN showed the "true grace" of the Realms better (Neverwinter and Luskan look identical?), unless you think "true grace" involves 3D graphics.
I haven't played Mask of the Betrayer yet, but it's supposed to be better than NWN2's original campaign. NWN2 at release, however, is stuffed with bugs and its engine is some of the most inefficient I've ever seen. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 16:30:55
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Actually, I really liked the story of NWN better. But I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I really couldn't get too far into NWN2; I got it as a Xmas gift in '06 and I just couldn't find myself playing it. But, sorry to get off-topic...
Back to Drizzt and his merry band. |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 17:00:37
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| on the topic of BG2, but relating to NWN, having nothing to do with Drizzt, it said in BG2 that you could import your characters, but you can't |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 17:20:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
on the topic of BG2, but relating to NWN, having nothing to do with Drizzt, it said in BG2 that you could import your characters, but you can't
Lol. This was why I originally bought NWN1 instead of waiting a bit. I bought the very first used copy at my local EB for $40. And I got so addicted that I stopped playing BG2. It was a couple years later before I went back and finished BG2. I have been meaning to use Balder's Gate Tutu (a program that gives you all of the updates of BG2 interface and classes in BG1) and work through the entire series. Then my wife got us a second copy of WoW, and so I have been playing that with her. I really like NWN1, but it did not really shine as a game until the HotU expansion. I was a bit disappointed with NWN2 (I bought the collecter's edtion), not all of it, but the bugginess at launch, and bits of the UI. Camera angles are a bit funky too. Anyways, maybe Mask of the Betrayer will do for it what Hordes of the Underdark did for NWN1. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 17:21:44
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
on the topic of BG2, but relating to NWN, having nothing to do with Drizzt, it said in BG2 that you could import your characters, but you can't
Lol. This was why I originally bought NWN1 instead of waiting a bit. I bought the very first used copy at my local EB for $40 and was disappointed when I could not convert my BG2 character. Then I got so addicted that I stopped playing BG2. It was a couple years later before I went back and finished BG2. I have been meaning to use Balder's Gate Tutu (a program that gives you all of the updates of BG2 interface and classes in BG1) and work through the entire series. I really like NWN1, but it did not really shine as a game until the HotU expansion. I was a bit disappointed with NWN2 (I bought the collecter's edtion), not all of it, but the bugginess at launch, and bits of the UI. Camera angles are a bit funky too. Anyways, maybe Mask of the Betrayer will do for it what Hordes of the Underdark did for NWN1.
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Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2007 : 23:43:28
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I think it would have been pointless, anyway, to import a tremendously high level 2E character (from BG series) into the usually much lower level, 3E NWN. You'd have to pretty much remake the character no matter what.
I say "usually" because there is much, much more to NWN than the official modules that shipped with the game. There were countless single player modules one could play, many of them very good, and many of those taking place in the FR. So I don't really want to debate about which is better, NWN or BG, because both of them at one time or another have screamed "Realms!" to me. I do think overall the BG series has the edge--and certainly over the original NWN1 (didn't like it much either, though I was very fond of the HotU expansion). But NWN ultimately gives me countless different games to play. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Drizzt in BG2
