| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| coach |
Posted - 03 Sep 2012 : 22:39:31
a re-split of Abeir-Toril with Abeir going off and resuming canon from 1480+ and Toril being re-instated to 13?? by Ao?
Abeir represents what is "new"
Toril represents the "classic" OGB feel
would that not appease EVERYONE
and having all the new sourcebooks be like the new Menzo with space for both Abeir and Toril
they could keep the fiction in Abeir (that would appease the oldschool masses who wouldn't have fiction trumping their canon and it would appease the contigent of 4e fans as a continuation of what they newly started playing in)
i've heard some of the 4e WotC folk on here asking for patience etc
unfortunately, once trust is so bitterly and unashamedly betrayed, it puts the victim in a "show me don't tell me" position
so please don't poo-poo us grognards for being cautious, we earned that right quite honestly
i just simply think that WotC has ONLY ONE chance to grab back some marketshare lost to Pathfinder and if most/all of the timeline advances the 1480+ era then the Pathfinder/DnD tipping point will be reinforced not reversed/slowed. It has already gone from a slow trickle (2008-2009) to a gushing pour (2010-2012). |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 01:22:57
I have spent A LOT of money on manga over the years (I have most of one wall devoted to them), but I never could get into Dragon Ball Z. The artwork bothered me. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 23:17:50
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
On the other hand, when he pushed the worlds apart, he was saving entire universes (he has done it several times now), including pushing apart the Marvel and DC universes (thus ending the Amalgam comics line).
It's been a decade since I read it, but didn't the brothers just decide to merge/split while the spectre and tribunal were tiny specks with the brothers not even noticing these fleas that tried to keep them apart? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 17:21:49
Maybe blow-up Oerth, Krynn, and Mystara (and possibly Aebrynis), and then re-form Abeir after the sundering with all the campaign areas from those worlds on one globe. Kinda goofy, but it would mean they could do the more interesting bits from all of those worlds as a single setting, instead of trying to re-do multiple settings. It could get all the bits and pieces of worlds we've seen over the years as well (Nentir Vale, Jakandor, etc).
Leave FR, Athas, And Eberron alone - they can stand on their own (and DS's flavor is just too different to merge correctly with some other world... although I have postulated before that Abeir may have actually been the perfect world to place Athas on...)
And I not talking about one of my hokey amalgam-maps. I am talking about a brand new world with brand new maps with pieces (lore bits) pasted into it from all those other settings. The GOOD pieces.
Hmph... I think I just merged Abeir with my 'Æthervale' concept (as a new plane to replace the ethereal - a "world between the worlds"). It could work - they should let us play in D&D's 'storage locker'. 
You know... the more I think about this... 
The way Birthright was setup, and guys like Iuz and Lord Soth, and then taking into account that I pictured the feywild and Shadowfel working very much like Ravenloft (with those captured domains), and then saying the new Æthervale is just like that... Hmmmmmmm... me thinks I see some decent traction there.
Maybe The Sundering should = Crisis on multiple Earths (except not for FR! Except to get back some stuff we lost.)
EDIT: While looking for a good pic to link of Crisis, I found THIS SITE instead. It has an interesting article about rebooting continuities - folks here should read it. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 16:28:25
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I stopped watching Dragonball when I realized their names were 'Frieza' and 'Cooler'.
REALLY? 
What happened to 'lunchpail'? Died in the womb?
Lol, I've never watched the show, but my stepson was into it. Was one of them named Thermus by chance?
No, but their dad's name was Cold(King Cold, to be specific), and they had an ancestor named Chill. I swear I am not making this up.
And Dennis, he did sell them. It's mentioned in a throw-away line during one of the episodes Gohan and Krillin are making their way to Namek, though he certainly wants to move passed the galactic real estate business and into full on evil emperor mode.
As for the topic at hand, I believe I've mentioned elsewhere- probably in this very thread, it's been a while and I'm extremely sleepy right now- that I'm fine with resplitting Abier-Toril so long as they continue producing some Abiernian lore.
That being said, implementing separate timelines would be a mistake. It just gets complicated. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 15:05:14
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I stopped watching Dragonball when I realized their names were 'Frieza' and 'Cooler'.
REALLY?
What happened to 'lunchpail'? Died in the womb?
Lol, I've never watched the show, but my stepson was into it. Was one of them named Thermus by chance? |
| Zireael |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 14:54:35
On topic: if we really had to stick with the Abeir-Toril name (all but dropped in 3e, returned in 4e), separate worlds or timelines seem the best way to go. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 14:15:48
I stopped watching Dragonball when I realized their names were 'Frieza' and 'Cooler'.
REALLY?
What happened to 'lunchpail'? Died in the womb? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 14:00:20
No, he didn't sell them. He's just a bored emperor hungry for new toys. [Majimbo's worse.] |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 13:47:05
That reminds me of Dragon Ball Z; Frieza's whole galactic empire was really just a real estate scam. His "World Trade Organization" would conquer planets and wipe out the local population in order to sell them off to the highest bidder. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 13:28:55
There are a LOT of worlds in the universe. AFAIK, Spectre only concerns himself with Earth. I'd have to agree that makes him 'a local'.
On the other hand, when he pushed the worlds apart, he was saving entire universes (he has done it several times now), including pushing apart the Marvel and DC universes (thus ending the Amalgam comics line). I guess saving the universe in comics amounts to the same thing it does in FR - you get no respect.
You know what was even cooler, when he and the Living Tribunal were both working together to keep the two universe from falling apart. Man, I LOVE comics. 
I was describing what happened in 4e (setting-wise) over on the Paizo forums (because there were a couple of misconceptions), and the best way I could find to describe Abeir was the D&D universe equivalent of the 'city dump'. Its where all the odd bits go when the WotC doesn't want to use them anymore, but they don't want to just obliterate them, either (just in case). Thinking more on it, I think 'public storage' may have been better, because thats where you stick crap you don't want to look at, but for whatever reason you can't bring yourself to throw away.
I wonder if somewhere in the multiverse there are auctions for abandoned 'storage worlds'.  |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 08:14:06
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
Some time ago there was a Marvel/DC crossover where the Specter pulls apart Marvel Earth and DC Earth. That is pretty much exactly what I see Ao doing.
Ironically, Spectre's not even that highly ranked among the angels. Michael swats him out of Heaven, and Lucifer calls him a "stupid bugger". |
| Quale |
Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 07:49:40
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
Maybe it was first part of the feywild and later the seldarine shifted it to the astral sea to hang out with the other deities. When the elves took Evermeet it was before the seldarine shifted it and thus it wen't back to the last location it remembered
It's possible it moved around. Arvandor was first a giant realm, in 4e I guess it means from Elemental Chaos. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 03 Jan 2013 : 19:13:59
quote:
Originally posted by coach
would that not appease EVERYONE
No, not all. It would alienate the fans of "once story, one canon, one realms" (as Eric put it).
Multiple dimension would be my worst nightmare come true and forever kill the realms for me.
The one realms currently having an incarnation I loathe can be fixed over time when the realms progress and turn again into something I like.
But if they split up the Realms like that they crossed a line that they can never get back behind.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Now if you reset the clock , keep the fiction in Toril then divorce the novels from canon....that's the winner for most everyone.
I also disagree with that. IMHO non-canon novels are partly responsible for the weak sales of Eberron novels compared to FR novels.
Non-canon novels are glorified fan-fiction, of that I can get plenty on the net for free. I want novels to tell me stories that really happen in the setting and advance the setting (whether small way or big way)
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
A problem with the Sundering and 4e is that the elves transplanted a piece of Arvandor. Evermeet shifted to the Feywild, and Arvandor is in the Astral Sea?!
Maybe it was first part of the feywild and later the seldarine shifted it to the astral sea to hang out with the other deities. When the elves took Evermeet it was before the seldarine shifted it and thus it wen't back to the last location it remembered |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 03 Jan 2013 : 15:41:25
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I came across this line on page 210 of the 4e FRCG:
quote:
Streetwise DC 30: Melauthaur is actually a runescribed dracolich who continues to strengthen his undead powers. Sometimes he sends his dragon subjects to distant parts of Returned Abeir, apparently looking for clues regarding a relic that was lost during the war between the Estelar and the Dawn Titans in ancient days. Called The Shadow of Ao, the relic is said to have the power to twin the world anew.
The Shadow of Ao? Twin the world anew? Methinks we have a winner! 
Wow, this just goes to show how fed up I was when 4e came out. This is a cool find. Wouldn't it be interesting if this item were located/hidden in Sigil and a certain former goddess of deceptions had been sent by Ao to retrieve it? |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 03 Jan 2013 : 13:46:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
BTW. Abeir-Toril means "cradle of life", right? I always wondered which part was which... 
I thought Abeir-Toril loosely meant...first alphabetically, by any means necessary
Ah, found this. Both was covered by Jeff Grubb in the mailing list, here. |
| coach |
Posted - 05 Dec 2012 : 18:58:14
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I came across this line on page 210 of the 4e FRCG:
quote:
Streetwise DC 30: Melauthaur is actually a runescribed dracolich who continues to strengthen his undead powers. Sometimes he sends his dragon subjects to distant parts of Returned Abeir, apparently looking for clues regarding a relic that was lost during the war between the Estelar and the Dawn Titans in ancient days. Called The Shadow of Ao, the relic is said to have the power to twin the world anew.
The Shadow of Ao? Twin the world anew? Methinks we have a winner!
well now reinforced my idea with canon
you cant beat that |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 20:30:21
Nice catch Markustay! I wonder if this means we'll get some Returned Abeir lore finally. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 18:28:58
I came across this line on page 210 of the 4e FRCG:
quote:
Streetwise DC 30: Melauthaur is actually a runescribed dracolich who continues to strengthen his undead powers. Sometimes he sends his dragon subjects to distant parts of Returned Abeir, apparently looking for clues regarding a relic that was lost during the war between the Estelar and the Dawn Titans in ancient days. Called The Shadow of Ao, the relic is said to have the power to twin the world anew.
The Shadow of Ao? Twin the world anew? Methinks we have a winner! |
| Veritas |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 20:39:47
Those were some FANTASTIC images.
In my mind (I know it won't come out this way), I see Ao in his nondescript old man form pulling the worlds apart, Spectre style, amidst a maelstrom of cosmic energy with the tablets of fate reconstituting and writing themselves above his shoulders. Meanwhile Bane is seeing this and pees his pantaloons. ;) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 20:22:37
He did it to earth-1 and earth-2, back in DC comics, a long time before that.
I believe he was trying much the same during the Crisis events as well. Seems to be a full-time job for him, keeping worlds apart.
The scene (in the DC/Marvel crossover) where all the magical-types of both worlds try to summon the Spectre, and Constantine says, "Does anyone else think this is a BAD idea?" is one of my favorite comic scenes ever.
Anyhow, usually when this happens - worlds merge and then un-merge - at least one planet gets it's history partially re-written (a reboot), but I don't think we are getting anything nearly that drastic with FR. |
| Veritas |
Posted - 18 Sep 2012 : 19:08:16
Some time ago there was a Marvel/DC crossover where the Specter pulls apart Marvel Earth and DC Earth. That is pretty much exactly what I see Ao doing. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 12 Sep 2012 : 04:01:14
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Against the shadow? 
quote:
Originally posted by coach
a re-split of Abeir-Toril with Abeir going off
BTW. Abeir-Toril means "cradle of life", right? I always wondered which part was which...
I thought Abeir-Toril loosely meant...first alphabetically, by any means necessary |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Sep 2012 : 19:32:08
They can get rid of the 'cradle', but don't throw the baby out with the bath-water. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 11 Sep 2012 : 00:24:42
Against the shadow?
quote:
Originally posted by coach
a re-split of Abeir-Toril with Abeir going off
BTW. Abeir-Toril means "cradle of life", right? I always wondered which part was which... |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 10 Sep 2012 : 17:36:49
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
@Razz - The Living Forgotten Realms RPGA campaign brought in a lot of new fans.
As for the topic itself. I instituted a personal goal to not worry about marketshares and business decisions. I try to only focus on making quality stories for the Forgotten Realms. I don't see how invalidating lore even more will fix anything to the point of garnishing good-will. People will always complain and not like aspects of this shared world.
If Ed is behind it, I am behind it. He's heading up the team of all-stars to get this worked out.
And posts like this are what brings my faith back to the creators. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 10 Sep 2012 : 02:13:44
Okay, I see. Thanks for the clarification. |
| Quale |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 23:59:12
well, not exactly an earthmote, an archipelago of six islands, 400 miles wide, that floats in a silvery substance
source: 4e Manual of the Planes
quite different than what's in e.g. Planes of Chaos |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 21:14:37
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Astral Plane in no place, it's a void that exists between all the Outer Planes and the Prime, in 4e they re-made Arvandor into an earthmote.
I stand somewhat corrected. I looked at the FRGC for 4e (I don't play the game much, but I buy some of the source/guidebooks for references), and it lists the domains, if you will, in the Astral Plane, and Arvandor is one of them. In the 3.5e (or maybe it was 3e), though, Arvandor is listed as being in the Outer Planes. But even in 4e, I did not see where it said Arvandor became an earthmote. Could you please give me the source? |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 19:16:28
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I guess we found the 'High' Elves.
I always knew they looked down at everyone else, but thats ridiculous.
I hope that concept is Sundered! If I want to utilize or visit Earthmotes.....I'll hop thru a portal |
| Markustay |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 19:02:17
I guess we found the 'High' Elves.
I always knew they looked down at everyone else, but thats ridiculous. |
