| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Matt James |
Posted - 18 Aug 2008 : 13:03:45
I had the pleasure of speaking with Ed about a plethora of topics relating to the Realms while at GenCon. I think my brother was getting flustered with all the questions I was inundating him with and thus he was quick with pointing out that I could just ask the man himself. Ed was gracious enough to field a question I had relating to devout (and divine) followers of gods who may have fallen or have been slain. Specifically, the topic was piqued by my curiosity relating to one of my favorite Realms god who slain; Helm. I wanted to know what happened to his followers following his death and how that was handled.
Ed spoke of the Realms gods as an extremely political metaphysical embodiment that constantly vies for followers. He explained that in these situations it would not be uncommon for another similar god to use the opportunity to take in the additional follows under their wing. In many cases they (a given god) could adapt this process to make it appear that Helm may not indeed be slain but that it was his will that he continue under the banner of [Insert New God Here].
I thought it was fascinating and wanted to spark a conversation with the community relating to this. Of course there was much more to this than I described above, but that part stood out.
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| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 07 Sep 2008 : 22:40:40
It seems to me that in order to res a god, you've gotta be able to tap into some massive deific mojo. So this DM would have to rule that AO's got to do the resurrecting if the god can't do it on their own: See Bane / Xvim. Though, anything's possible...and as I write this post I'm getting a little inspired. A mortal res'ing a god as a quest...ooo..... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 14:30:38
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Ahh yes... Amaunator "the man" Just introduced a powerful artifact from the time of Netheril a great book of prayor given directly from Amaunator to his clergy. What I dont understand is just how, mortals so often are resurected, or ad least have the possibility, but gods? They just seem to die! How is that???
Gods have the possibility of being resurrected. It just doesn't happen as oft.
Bane apparently came back from the dead. Torm was resurrected by Ao. Auppenser is close to but not quite dead, so he could come back. Moander is dead, but there's a possibility for his resurrection. And in the Shattered Realms, the once-dead (sorta) Amaunator is back. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 12:24:43
They are either slain by another god or they dy of neglect by their mortal worshippers. This is the case with Amaunator. His worshippers blaimed him for doing nothing to prevent the catastrophe of Karsus' folly (rightly so, but he could do nothing because magic was not in his "contract") and deserted him. A millenium later he lost his realm on Mechanus and died, drifting in the Astral Plane. |
| Nicolai Withander |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 12:18:31
Ahh yes... Amaunator "the man" Just introduced a powerful artifact from the time of Netheril a great book of prayor given directly from Amaunator to his clergy. What I dont understand is just how, mortals so often are resurected, or ad least have the possibility, but gods? They just seem to die! How is that??? |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 14:30:26
You are probably right, I have misread the post. |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 13:50:40
I think he said "Tyrans" = "followers of Tyr". "Tyrants", Bane can have to himself. ;)
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| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 10:16:50
I don't think Bane would tolerate that. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 22:47:54
Amaunator used to be the law deity back in the days of the original Netheril. I could see him taking some Tyrans to his faith these days. |
| Neil |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 01:30:51
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I think Liira or Tymora did something similar to this during Waukeen's absence. I can see Torm taking Helmites under his wing.
Torm is eating up faiths left and right, it seems. He got Tyr, Helm and probably a few of Lathander's and Ilmater's worshippers. Maybe even a few of Siamorphe and Nobanion's ex-followers. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 00:56:12
It's explained in Faiths & Avatars, Faiths & Pantheons, and the For Duty & Deity adventure module.
F&A pg. 176:- "Her priests were deprived of their spells, and many of her worshipers and churches turned to other faiths."
And:- "Finally, in 1365 DR, a prophet of Lliira appeared with a revelation that was interpreted to mean Waukeen was dead and banished from the Realms and would not return. The prophet of Lliira appeared at the gates of each of the temples of Waukeen in the Realms on a series of days, transported by magic. At each stop, the prophet said that Lliira would hold the portfolio of Waukeen in trust as its regent and grant spells to the worthy." |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 23:39:14
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I think Liira or Tymora did something similar to this during Waukeen's absence. I can see Torm taking Helmites under his wing.
Lliira held Waukeen's portfolio in trust when Waukeen tried to circumvent Ao's rules during the Time of Troubles and find a 'back way' into her divine realm. She was held captive by Graz'zt for some time as a result of her action (a couple of years I think).
Ah yes that was it. Thank you. That darn BG 2:ToB game threw me a piece of misinformation yesterday with that darn Priest of Waukeen saying Tymora was answering his prayers (unless he actually believed it himself). |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 20:45:56
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I think Liira or Tymora did something similar to this during Waukeen's absence. I can see Torm taking Helmites under his wing.
Lliira held Waukeen's portfolio in trust when Waukeen tried to circumvent Ao's rules during the Time of Troubles and find a 'back way' into her divine realm. She was held captive by Graz'zt for some time as a result of her action (a couple of years I think). |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 20:42:03
I think Liira or Tymora did something similar to this during Waukeen's absence. I can see Torm taking Helmites under his wing. |
| Neil |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 16:21:02
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Rustybeard
Specifically, the topic was piqued by my curiosity relating to one of my favorite Realms god who slain; Helm.
I hear you--I was fond of Helm, myself.
Yeah. I loved Helm as the stalwart guardian of the planes, even if I had issues with some of his worshippers sometimes. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 15:14:58
quote:
Originally posted by Rustybeard
Specifically, the topic was piqued by my curiosity relating to one of my favorite Realms god who slain; Helm.
I hear you--I was fond of Helm, myself. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 12:58:28
Ed's answered one or two questions of mine in years gone by in which he suggested that some deity would step in to offer a counterfeit of something which was technically a no-no in the Realms (such as the divine spell stealing ability of Ur-priests). Aside from the "normal" Realms gods, greater demons and devils and Madness deities are always quick to step up to offer "forbidden" powers.
Just going through Ed's old answers and searching for the word "god" can be enlightening.
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| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 04:03:33
Yep; this process he described is known as "interloper deity." Happens all the time in Faerun. Tiamat grant spells to morons worshipping spheres of annihilation, for example, passing herself as the "Entropy Goddess." Gond is known as Nebelun in gnome circles, and Tymora pretends to be a halfling goddess in Luiren. Cyric/Bane/Myrkyl/Xvim/Bhaal/Kelemvor have exchanged portfolios so many times I have actually lost track of things (well, now it's Cyric, Bane or Kel, unless you're using the Servant of the Fallen feat...) etc. etc. etc.
Yep. It's pretty much a bunch of intergalactic politics... |
| Thalos_Milathriel |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 03:12:17
Cool that you got to talk to "tha man" about this. Hope you thanked him for birthing the Realms in the first place. |
