| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 04:20:36
I have never played the video game of Baldur's Gate. I read books and I interact with human beings. I don't have time for most computer games. I don't know if there are II, III, or IV Baldur's Gate games, and frankly, my dear, I don't give a woot, having eventually figured out last year that there is only one Volo's Guide for the "City of Baldur's Gate" not two.
The taint of Bhaal beyond Boarskyr Bridge has long fascinated me, so when I accidentally stumbled onto the Amazon.com page for this book (I found it on someone's list of FR novels and games), I was eager to read the customer reviews to see what it was about. Well, ya coulda fish-slapped me, for all the value I got from the viscous puddles of drool passing for "reviews" over there. "He didn't do this, which was in the game," "She didn't do that because he wrote this other thing," blah, blah, blah, blather! I began to doubt that any of the d-----d fools had actually read the book.
One pundit, who doubtless thought himself quite droll, complained that there was more blood spilled in the first three pages than in all of Dracula. Knowing how little bloodshed actually does take place in Dracula, I decided to use Amazon's search engine to read the first ten pages of Throne of Bhaal. Not one drop of blood gets spilled. Not one. The closest thing to an act of violence is that a root wantonly trips one of the characters (who is caught before falling and sustaining injury, thank goodness!).
Having a fairly good idea of what keywords would be in the book, I searched for one of those, zipped to an interesting passage (a darned important one, apparently), and I found the writing really gripping. I promptly put it into my shopping cart.
I hope that in the future people who can actually read and write coherently and cogently will post reviews of Realms novels on Amazon. I'm certain that they would sell better if their fate wasn't tied to the opinions who of people who probably have trouble with the concept of "the opposable thumb," except insofar as it is an adjunct of the joystick.
|
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 24 Jun 2013 : 14:10:35
Throne of Bhaal was certainly the best of the three (I liked its game incarnation the least though). Having played the games, I nonetheless respect artistic license - a pity then that Phil Athans made seemed to make a lazy effort of his though.
The BG series of novels is the kind of thing you might read to help you switch off your brain before going to sleep. Though not un-entertaining, it's far too gratuitous in both its violence and the ease of which Abdel jumps into bed with women. I understand that Athans wrote him as not being totally in control of his own mind and body thanks to Bhaal's taint but it ended up meaning that I had no empathy with him as a protagonist, and I consider myself a very empathetic individual.
As to Jamallo Kreen's question about Irenicus (I'm using info from both the books and the games) Jonaleth(Jon) Irenicus is the primary antagonist of Shadows of Amn.
He was the high mage of Suldanessellar and lover of Queen Ellesime. However, he grew power-hungry and (with the help of his sister Bodhi) tried to steal some of the divine power of Rillifane. He was caught & stopped and as punishment, he and Bodhi were stripped of everything that made them elven then Ellisime dumped Jon and banished them both. Bodhi went and got herself made into a vampire and was reinvigorated in undeath but Irenicus stayed mortal and tried unsuccessfully to fix himself with magic. Both the game and the novel deal ultimately with Jon's attempt to steal Bhaal's taint from Abdel so that Jon can achieve his goal of divinity. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 21 Jun 2013 : 19:26:50
Drew Karpyshyn's work was actually good by FR standards, and excellent compared to the first two.
I admit Athans had some good ideas in book 2 (dragons, the sphere scene with Jaheira). But the book 1 had me raging over his treatment of Xan and Khalid, among others. |
| lordsknight185 |
Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 13:45:42
*Throwing in my 2c*
I have never read the second or third novel, but I will never forgive how they portrayed Khalid in the first novel. Almost makes me want to punch Athans in the face...But I am a gentleman, so I will simply grumble and silently rage in my corner about such bastardizations. |
| Volathar |
Posted - 28 May 2013 : 10:14:48
I remember reading the BG novel, years ago, although I do not remember the book clearly, other than rating it as "average" & deciding not to continue the series. However, after reading Drew Karphyshyn's "Bane Trilogy" (which was really great btw), I decided to give the novel "Throne of Bhaal" a shot & will probably also read BG 2 to tie things up.
Actually, I think it's a good thing that the game (which is by far one of the greatest RPGs of all time) and the novels are not accurate. This way, the novels provide a -kind of- different story & perspective. However, I also agree that the novels could have been way better for a game of that calibre. |
| Lily M Green |
Posted - 21 May 2013 : 11:15:43
I always wondered with these novels if they were written in parallel with the development process for the games - especially the first installment - rather than after the fact, and looking at release dates for both I'd say it was likely. This would explain the huge disparity between the novel characterisations and those in game but wasn't something I could get past. Part of the appeal of the game(s) (for me) is that the NPCs are fantastically rounded. Some are hugely likable, some are Marmite but still fully fleshed out and these characters bear little or no resemblance to the characters on the page and sadly, the characters on the page aren't a patch on those in the game. As a positive Philip Athans does have a highly readable style. |
| swifty |
Posted - 24 Mar 2013 : 09:42:55
baldurs gate is the worst realms novel ever released.period. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 21:05:30
quote:
Originally posted by artificial_sunlight
But I picked up Once around the realms a while ago  knowing it's the most ugly gibberling in Faerun
Oh, I forgot about that one. Maybe my mind trying to protect me. But I'd still consider at very least the first two BG novel worse than OAtR. |
| artificial_sunlight |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 11:40:05
I disagree, the books are more than shelf space for me. They are part of the FR universe. They are not great overal but ToB was a good read for me.
But I picked up Once around the realms a while ago knowing it's the most ugly gibberling in Faerun |
| Spoon |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 13:23:18
The BG novels were a bastardized aberration of a series. In no way do I consider them to be canon. "Abdel" being a mercenary with Gorion? What an absolute joke. Imoen being shredded by the Ravager (or something like that)... Please. The authors complete disregard for even basic elements of the game plot was unforgivable. Not to mention ignoring many facets of D&D rules.
It's a shame they were ever published. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 02 Mar 2013 : 02:17:52
quote:
Originally posted by artificial_sunlight
I have reas somewere that Drew Karphyshyn didn't had al lot of time to write the story, but his biggest problem was that he had events and characters from 2 books that he didn't wrote to use in his story.
There's also the fact that because of the multiple endings of the BG games, they can't be considered properly Realms canon. So I imagine it was kind of difficult for Karphyshyn to weave his tales using both his own scripts and what was plotted for the Baldur's Gate CRPGs. |
| Mirtek |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 23:53:19
The BG novels are the worst FR novels I ever read. BG: The Novel is terrible, BG2: The Novel manages to be even more terrible (which i something one would think impossible after just having finished the BG novel) and then ToB: The Novel finally raises the bar, although that only means it's the least horrible of these three pieces of .... |
| Light |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 14:13:36
This topic isn't just old... it's ancient mate. But I do find it amusing that the poster two above me has the same profile picture and a very similar name. I swear there is no relation though, I swear!
On topic, I think the book is quite bad. Not bad actually, just certainly the epitome of mediocre. I'm not saying I could do better but I would certainly give it a good shot. In fact I actually do plan on writing a Baldur's Gate book. I say "plan" because I will probably never find the time or motivation. |
| artificial_sunlight |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 10:53:09
I have reas somewere that Drew Karphyshyn didn't had al lot of time to write the story, but his biggest problem was that he had events and characters from 2 books that he didn't wrote to use in his story.
I dont think the book is a great game novel, BUT the novel on its own is pretty ok.
(sorry for digging up an old topic, but bg is booming right now) |
| Walking in the Light |
Posted - 30 Nov 2005 : 07:11:39
Jamallo
quote:
What I found interesting from a reader's perspective is that on the first page the author rushed through Abdel's entire life story in a single paragraph, almost as if to say, "I've acknowledged all of that other stuff which I didn't write; now, thank Oghma, I can get on and write my own book!" That was my perception, anyway.
Now that was well said.
Its the core of the whole argument about the grand story in the PC game and the less than ok books.
As far as being tempted to buy the game as you said in one of your posts
Get Shadow of Amn and Thrown of Baal first before playing the original.
The 2nd and 3rd had the richest NPC/Main story and most up to date game play.
The first one has a good story but the game play is more rustic than 2nd and 3rd....still good though.
|
| Winterfox |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 19:59:42
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I was tantalized by the mentions of Jon Irenicus. Is he well-presented in the first two books (or whichever one he is in, if he is only in one)? Is he an NPC in the game?
He's the primary villain in the second game. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 19:53:17
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Word count limit 300 pages..........What kind of an idiot would seriously believe that a game the SIZE of baldurs gate:shadows of amn could be adequately described IN ONLY 300 PAGES?!!!!!!!!!!!
It can't--it really can't. No one who has played the games can enjoy any of these books until they admit to themselves that the books can't be carbon copies of the game.
That being said, I really did enjoy Throne of Bhaal. I liked the way he handled the end of the story, because I've always felt that "Your destiny is whatever you make of it" was the true spirit of the games. In my games my characters always choose to remain mortal, so I'm glad that Abdel did, too.
These comments don't apply to the whole series though. While the BG2 book was okay (not great, just okay), the first book was terrible. I can't really recommend it, but read it if you're curious. Heck, you might find it amusing! |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 15:34:36
Well ya know, I really enjoyed this book! I haven't played the game itself but I thoroughly enjoyed this story. A couple of elements were a little off and the constant killing off of key characters is very CRPG-like (although this exists throughout the trilogy).
I loved Drew's writing in Temple Hill and was expecting a good tale from him in the novel, and I was happy with what I read.
|
| khorne |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 09:49:19
quote:
Originally posted by ode904
Nah that was a guess. I losed my all saves when I got new computer( my mistake).
[quote]
The taint of Bhaal beyond Boarskyr Bridge has long fascinated me, so when I accidentally stumbled onto the Amazon.com page for this book (I found it on someone's list of FR novels and games), I was eager to read the customer reviews to see what it was about. Well, ya coulda fish-slapped me, for all the value I got from the viscous puddles of drool passing for "reviews" over there. "He didn't do this, which was in the game," "She didn't do that because he wrote this other thing," blah, blah, blah, blather! I began to doubt that any of the d-----d fools had actually read the book.
[quote]
But that 'really' happened. I think this was discussed in 'computer softwareŽ.
Well, I read the book, and nearly got seizures from it(I`m exaggerating, but not much) |
| ode904 |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 22:03:18
Nah that was a guess. I losed my all saves when I got new computer( my mistake).
[quote]
The taint of Bhaal beyond Boarskyr Bridge has long fascinated me, so when I accidentally stumbled onto the Amazon.com page for this book (I found it on someone's list of FR novels and games), I was eager to read the customer reviews to see what it was about. Well, ya coulda fish-slapped me, for all the value I got from the viscous puddles of drool passing for "reviews" over there. "He didn't do this, which was in the game," "She didn't do that because he wrote this other thing," blah, blah, blah, blather! I began to doubt that any of the d-----d fools had actually read the book.
[quote]
But that 'really' happened. I think this was discussed in 'computer softwareŽ. |
| khorne |
Posted - 10 Jul 2005 : 11:33:38
quote:
Originally posted by ode904
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Now anyone, regardless of playing BG or not, with a little D&D knowledge should know a moonblade should be more powerful than a minor +1 katana. It was stuff like this that made the series bad, not because. Also, you can't exactly compare the bloodshed in BG2: SOA and BG2: ToB, because they were written by two different novels.
I agree with THAT. Moon elf has got a little shoddy short sword which is named 'Moonblade' . But in my opinion BG serie is amazing. They have always been my favorite games.
But yes the game has perhaps a little more blood than the book. I would remember that my party's entire killing numbers were like 1500...
I butchered about 4000 in SoA and ToB combined. |
| ode904 |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 12:30:21
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Now anyone, regardless of playing BG or not, with a little D&D knowledge should know a moonblade should be more powerful than a minor +1 katana. It was stuff like this that made the series bad, not because. Also, you can't exactly compare the bloodshed in BG2: SOA and BG2: ToB, because they were written by two different novels.
I agree with THAT. Moon elf has got a little shoddy short sword which is named 'Moonblade'. But in my opinion BG serie is amazing. They have always been my favorite games.
But yes the game has perhaps a little more blood than the book. I would remember that my party's entire killing numbers were like 1500...
|
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 09:49:04
Well, I finished reading it. It was ... er ... welll ... it had a good storyline. The delivery left a lot to be desired, though. I know that Athas wrote the first two, but since I don't have the game, they are the only means I may access to learn the earlier parts of the tale, so if any of you grumblers who are publicly asking yourselves why you still have them on your shelves want to get rid of them, I am always happy to accept donations.
I was tantalized by the mentions of Jon Irenicus. Is he well-presented in the first two books (or whichever one he is in, if he is only in one)? Is he an NPC in the game?
Having read it because I am fascinated by the concept of dead gods, my take on it is bound to be different from that of someone who came to the novels from the game, but I must say that I can see no reason why people should reject its canonical authority. In the end, except for a couple of cities laid waste and a bunch of people and dragons killed, the status quo ante is maintained.
One thing which irks me still: what the Heck was up with that solar or whatever it was in the Ao-brand robes? Gods are afraid to cross Ao, but this creature wasn't? Wasn't he paying attention in Tablets of Fate class? Doesn't he know what happens to angels (and gods) who follow their own inclinations instead of orders? The logical consequence from what it did was for it to be cast out of wherever it is Ao lives and then decide that all that yummy Bhaal goodness (I mean badness) is just what's needed to win its way back to Ao's dimension. "And there was war in Heaven...." |
| Xysma |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 18:44:10
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
from Maskerade by Terry Pratchett, page 77 (paperback)
...And all those exclamation marks, you notice? ...A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head.
Let's keep in mind that even if the writers in question had been given a lot more pages it would still have been a very bad idea to put in everything in the plot of a computer-game into a novel. Those wanting proof should read Krondor: the Betrayal by Raymond E Feist that includes a couple of plot-twist that's pretty much irrelevant to the story and just screams sidequest.
And furthermore, as Kuje said, they're based on the games, which means that the writers' job were to take what they liked about the plot of the book and turn it into a novel, not to write down everything that could happen to a character whilst playing it.
That's a good point, I don't buy a novel for a walkthrough of the game. I expect there to be dramatic differences between the novel and the game, or else you will end up with a tremendously boring, and often nonsensical novel. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 19:56:48
quote:
from Maskerade by Terry Pratchett, page 77 (paperback)
...And all those exclamation marks, you notice? ...A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head.
Let's keep in mind that even if the writers in question had been given a lot more pages it would still have been a very bad idea to put in everything in the plot of a computer-game into a novel. Those wanting proof should read Krondor: the Betrayal by Raymond E Feist that includes a couple of plot-twist that's pretty much irrelevant to the story and just screams sidequest.
And furthermore, as Kuje said, they're based on the games, which means that the writers' job were to take what they liked about the plot of the book and turn it into a novel, not to write down everything that could happen to a character whilst playing it. |
| khorne |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 17:57:05
Word count limit 300 pages..........What kind of an idiot would seriously believe that a game the SIZE of baldurs gate:shadows of amn could be adequately described IN ONLY 300 PAGES?!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Paec_djinn |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 09:47:25
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I`ve played through BG2 and thrown of bhaal at least 5 times, so when I read the books I was horrified because not only did they twist several characters (minsc,elhan, Aran Lindvail etc) but they also left out approximately 90 PERCENT of what had happened in the game!! There was a lot more in the game that could have been added!!!
I think both Phil Athans and Drew Karphyshyn was really limited by the word count on the series. Besides, I don't think basing it on the game is really that important. I agree that more from the game could have been added. But once again, word count limit and such could have been a major factor. (since after all, all three books don't reach 300 pages) |
| Ty |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 02:35:12
Thanks Kuje, that's actually fairly relevant for some research I'm planning on doing. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 02:06:12
quote:
Originally posted by Ty
Query for those in the know then. Are the Double Diamond canon? Are the Baldur's Gate novels canon?  I always thought that Double Diamond were canon but Baldur's Gate were not. Um, seriously though without delving into the definition of canon versus non-canon that crops up so often. 
Bg's novels are canon. I have a author, WOTC's web site, Dragon magazine articles to "prove" it. Plus Lost Empires.
The Double Diamond are not since they are still 3 or 4 years from the current timeline. They are just a in game chap book writen by Volo, at least that's what WOTC's web site says. |
| Ty |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 01:46:42
Query for those in the know then. Are the Double Diamond canon? Are the Baldur's Gate novels canon? I always thought that Double Diamond were canon but Baldur's Gate were not. Um, seriously though without delving into the definition of canon versus non-canon that crops up so often. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 00:04:00
Of course the novels are different. :) They are BASED ON the games but they are not the games. |
|
|
