| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Aug 2004 : 04:34:56
Since I believe Races of Stone will have an enormous possibility for application in a setting such as FR, I've included this scroll in the FR RPG Products section.
My copy arrived late yesterday, and I can't seem to locate any other scroll dedicated to questions about this tome here, so I've decided to make the effort.
Let's hear from you...
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hammer of Moradin |
Posted - 26 Apr 2005 : 07:55:34
It is worth getting if you like the races of stone, dwarves and gnomes. It is geared mostly towards generic information for use anywhere, so I would tell you no if all you want are plot hooks Snotty. Background information, if it is in regards to dwarves, then yes it would come in handy. Hope that helps. |
| Snotlord |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 00:18:59
So... Is the Races of Stone worth getting for someone with Dwarves Deep and Races of Faerūn already in their collection?
I'm looking for background info and adventure hooks, not mechanics for creating dwarf characters.
Thank you. |
| hammer of Moradin |
Posted - 14 Mar 2005 : 17:57:49
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
If the goliaths were introduced as having great empires, I would be leary of them being introduced, but as it is I likely won't think much of them unless a player wants to play one.
I'm not sure I agree with the parts about the dwarven burial rituals, buring their remains and such. I guess I always pictured dwarves bones lying among the stones for eternity, and I can't help but think about how many dwarven tombs either I or my PCs have been in and there always seemed to be remains . . .
Good catch. I agree about the burials as opposed to a funeral pyre. What would be fitting is a honored smith who is cremated in his forge. Great kings and warriors however should be entombed in stone. From the stone, to the stone.
Besides, necromancers seem to stay away from dwarven tombs to raise their dead, and if the dwarf dies in battle, whether their side wins or loses, they should move on to the next world. There are a few ghostly spirits haunting certain areas of the Realms, so of course not every dwarf dies peacefully (with their axe in an orc skull ). |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 22:29:18
If the goliaths were introduced as having great empires, I would be leary of them being introduced, but as it is I likely won't think much of them unless a player wants to play one.
I'm not sure I agree with the parts about the dwarven burial rituals, buring their remains and such. I guess I always pictured dwarves bones lying among the stones for eternity, and I can't help but think about how many dwarven tombs either I or my PCs have been in and there always seemed to be remains . . . |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 05 Oct 2004 : 04:50:32
D20 Magazine Rack also has a review now available. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 22 Sep 2004 : 04:20:54
The 3rdedition.org site has a new review up for this product. |
| Reefy |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 01:41:52
I don't know anything about the Goliaths except what I've just read here but I do agree that everything in the Realms currently has to be 'new' or even new races which have just been hiding for years (Shade, star elves, Deep imaskari). There's plenty in the Realms already which has not been detailed enough, hundreds of races and monsters and huge potential for all of the organisations. It's always been something of a mixture of lots of different ideas and cultures, to me at least, but I don't want to see things added for the sake of it. |
| Lysander |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 18:33:51
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My main point is that I don't want something to become Realms-official just because it was in a new, non-Realms book. If it was designed for the Realms, that's one thing. But shoehorning a new race in, for no reason other than to use it, is objectionable.
I have nothing against new races. But since 3E came out, we've been getting new races left and right -- it's almost a "PC Race of the Month" thing. I'm tired of stuff just being dropped in, willy-nilly. If a new race is going to pop up (yet again), I want a really good reason for it. "Hey, this race is in this new core rulebook, so let's include them in the Realms!" is not a good reason.
The Shades, on the other hand, were built on a small little blurb from an old 2E source -- the city of Shade disappearing into a shadowy plane right at the same time as the Fall of Netheril. That kind of new race is quite well done, and not just an arbitrary inclusion. Thus, I have no objection to it.
Too much stuff has been arbitrarily bolted on already -- I'm leary of new bolt-ons. New is good, but only if it fits without being shoved in.
And, if it's absolutely necessary to include every new thing/idea that's come down the pike into the Realms *cough*BR-Bloodline'd spelljamming warforged*cough* at least they could stick 'em on some uncharted island or continent out thataways somewhere, rather than smack dab in the middle 'o everything.
"You head towards the mountain pass, and suddenly there's a {insert new creature here} in the way."
"Hey, we've been through this pass a dozen times, and nations have sent armies through here, so where'd these things come from??"
"Ah, they were sleeping. That's it. Sleeping."
"Uh huh." |
| Lysander |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 18:26:19
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
<slaps himself in the forehead in utter dissappointment upon hearing the despoiling of the Snowflake Mountains...>
I'll join you in that; the Snowflake and Orsraun figure into a campaign I've been on-and-off-again working on. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 18:16:07
quote:
Originally posted by Wood Elf Ranger
I really like the idea of a cold type fey creature. Even if its not added to the realms it will be added to my own campaign world
I'm fond of the fey critters myself, having an odd fascination with faeries.
I have been, for quite some time, kicking around ideas for a new race of faeries, based loosely on the Seelie sprites from the Spellbound boxed set. When I finally complete this bunch, I will likely drop some in the Realms.
But you know, we're starting to stray from the original idea of this scroll. Perhaps we should get back on topic before Big Al wanders by and sees what's going on in here... |
| Wood Elf Ranger |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 17:35:18
I really like the idea of a cold type fey creature. Even if its not added to the realms it will be added to my own campaign world |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 09:55:39
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Too much stuff has been arbitrarily bolted on already -- I'm leary of new bolt-ons. New is good, but only if it fits without being shoved in.
Well said. If I recall right from glancing at the excerpt, Frostburn introduces a new race. Will this also be included in the Realms?
Hopefully not, but probably so...  |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 04:14:29
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Too much stuff has been arbitrarily bolted on already -- I'm leary of new bolt-ons. New is good, but only if it fits without being shoved in.
Well said. If I recall right from glancing at the excerpt, Frostburn introduces a new race. Will this also be included in the Realms? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 01:07:43
My main point is that I don't want something to become Realms-official just because it was in a new, non-Realms book. If it was designed for the Realms, that's one thing. But shoehorning a new race in, for no reason other than to use it, is objectionable.
I have nothing against new races. But since 3E came out, we've been getting new races left and right -- it's almost a "PC Race of the Month" thing. I'm tired of stuff just being dropped in, willy-nilly. If a new race is going to pop up (yet again), I want a really good reason for it. "Hey, this race is in this new core rulebook, so let's include them in the Realms!" is not a good reason.
The Shades, on the other hand, were built on a small little blurb from an old 2E source -- the city of Shade disappearing into a shadowy plane right at the same time as the Fall of Netheril. That kind of new race is quite well done, and not just an arbitrary inclusion. Thus, I have no objection to it.
Too much stuff has been arbitrarily bolted on already -- I'm leary of new bolt-ons. New is good, but only if it fits without being shoved in. |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 13 Sep 2004 : 22:34:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I like the inclusion of the goliaths if for no other reason than it sets a precedent for the inclusion of new things.
With the Star Elves, Shades, and plane-touched, how would the inclusion of goliaths set a precedent? Heck, we had new races -- the saurials -- intro'ed back in 2E.
Because(I would assume) the goliaths were not of extraplanar origin.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Heck, in our world new species are being discovered all the timme, in lone like the realms that should be almsot as true. that, and internally, the goliaths could have been mistaken up till now for some other race.
'Tis true that we are constantly discovering new species. But these new species are unintelligent critters, and they're usually found in areas we don't frequent -- the Amazon basin, or sub-oceanic trenches, etc.
OR perhaps miserable gods-forsaken mountain ranges that people rarely return from. And again, I point to that they could easily be mistaken for some other giant or goblinoid.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
New minor critters here and there is one thing. Making a point of squeezing in yet another intelligent race, just because it was in some new non-Realms book, is too much. At most, all I'd want to see is a "using this race in settings x and y" blurb.
And basically that is what you're getting, a small concession that there might be some goliaths in the snowflake mountains.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Idf the realms becomes too closed, with nothing new added, it could break down very quickly int oa stagnant world, where everything has been discovered, al lit's dungeons explored, and wit hvery little to interest the average adventurer.
I disagree. There has always been plenty of interesting activity in the Realms that did not include the intro of new races or critters. Off the top of my head, the only new races/critters that were intro'ed as part of a Realms event were the saurials and the Shades.
And this isn't a big flashy intro of something new, it is a more low key easily ignored one. IF you donlike goliaths, ignore the one paagraph saying they exist. Hard to ignore the stacks of books and myriad references to humanoid dinosaurs and shades.
I like a inclusion of many things, but keeping them low key, so I can develop/ignore them as I see fit. Easy to ignore a few clans of giantkin in hte snowflake mountains, hard to ignore hordes of extraplanar evil pouring into the realms, or the shades and saurials either for that matter.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
The discovery of new locales does not soo upset people, does it? I should hope not. The discovery of new things to kill/befriend should not either.
Again, new things to kill or befriend is one thing. A new race being shoved into a conveniently empty section of the Realms is a different issue, entirely.
How so? It's perfectly fine to give DMs new bad guys to throw at players, but it is unnacceptable to put in new player useable races? Basically anything with an int score higher than 3 that can reproduce is a new race. And again, I think it far less lame for them to be discovered in a remote region rather than falling from the sky.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I will howwever say that the inclusion of anything new should not be done for no better reason than it came out in a core book. It appears to me that this particular author was rather taken with the goliaths, and personally wanted them in the game. Being able to do this is far better than it being so closed that the authors have no leeway or wriggle room in it.
If a particular DM wishes to incorporate a non-Realms-specific race or two, that's acceptable -- it's their campaign. I am, in fact, tinkering with the idea of sticking a bunch of kercpa somewhere in the Realms, and a project still stirring in the back of my mind is a single Krynnish dragonspawn that makes it into the Realms.
What I object to is something that wasn't created for the Realms being officially shoved in just because it was in some other book. It brings to mind the actions of the cable company -- "Hey, look, we're giving you 30 new channels! (By the way, you're paying for them)."
Well, when you look at it, most if ot all of the races in the realms were not specifically created for it. Altered and realmsified, yeah, but not created for it. The same reasoning you use could be applied to elves, dwarves, and so forth.
And how are they making you pay for anything? For one yo ucan ignore them entirely very easily, and for another, yo udon't HAVE to go buy a book to get stats for one little critter do you? I would hope you are not so anal as to have to go out and buy entire sourcebooks because of one reference in FR material.
I like options, and small concessions stating that new things are in the realms don't bother me, as they can be ignored. whenever gods fall from the sky to heralsd a new edition of the game, then Iget a little worried. Maybe it is just my "patch mentality" but I like NOT having to alter the in game world for the application of new out of game mechanics and so forth. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Sep 2004 : 00:02:37
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I like the inclusion of the goliaths if for no other reason than it sets a precedent for the inclusion of new things.
With the Star Elves, Shades, and plane-touched, how would the inclusion of goliaths set a precedent? Heck, we had new races -- the saurials -- intro'ed back in 2E.
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Heck, in our world new species are being discovered all the timme, in lone like the realms that should be almsot as true. that, and internally, the goliaths could have been mistaken up till now for some other race.
'Tis true that we are constantly discovering new species. But these new species are unintelligent critters, and they're usually found in areas we don't frequent -- the Amazon basin, or sub-oceanic trenches, etc.
New minor critters here and there is one thing. Making a point of squeezing in yet another intelligent race, just because it was in some new non-Realms book, is too much. At most, all I'd want to see is a "using this race in settings x and y" blurb.
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Idf the realms becomes too closed, with nothing new added, it could break down very quickly int oa stagnant world, where everything has been discovered, al lit's dungeons explored, and wit hvery little to interest the average adventurer.
I disagree. There has always been plenty of interesting activity in the Realms that did not include the intro of new races or critters. Off the top of my head, the only new races/critters that were intro'ed as part of a Realms event were the saurials and the Shades.
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
The discovery of new locales does not soo upset people, does it? I should hope not. The discovery of new things to kill/befriend should not either.
Again, new things to kill or befriend is one thing. A new race being shoved into a conveniently empty section of the Realms is a different issue, entirely.
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I will howwever say that the inclusion of anything new should not be done for no better reason than it came out in a core book. It appears to me that this particular author was rather taken with the goliaths, and personally wanted them in the game. Being able to do this is far better than it being so closed that the authors have no leeway or wriggle room in it.
If a particular DM wishes to incorporate a non-Realms-specific race or two, that's acceptable -- it's their campaign. I am, in fact, tinkering with the idea of sticking a bunch of kercpa somewhere in the Realms, and a project still stirring in the back of my mind is a single Krynnish dragonspawn that makes it into the Realms.
What I object to is something that wasn't created for the Realms being officially shoved in just because it was in some other book. It brings to mind the actions of the cable company -- "Hey, look, we're giving you 30 new channels! (By the way, you're paying for them)." |
| Capn Charlie |
Posted - 04 Sep 2004 : 14:31:36
I like the inclusion of the goliaths if for no other reason than it sets a precedent for the inclusion of new things.
Heck, in our world new species are being discovered all the timme, in lone like the realms that should be almsot as true. that, and internally, the goliaths could have been mistaken up till now for some other race.
Idf the realms becomes too closed, with nothing new added, it could break down very quickly int oa stagnant world, where everything has been discovered, al lit's dungeons explored, and wit hvery little to interest the average adventurer.
The discovery of new locales does not soo upset people, does it? I should hope not. The discovery of new things to kill/befriend should not either.
I will howwever say that the inclusion of anything new should not be done for no better reason than it came out in a core book. It appears to me that this particular author was rather taken with the goliaths, and personally wanted them in the game. Being able to do this is far better than it being so closed that the authors have no leeway or wriggle room in it. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 04 Sep 2004 : 08:00:13
Huh?  |
| Bahgtru |
Posted - 04 Sep 2004 : 06:44:17
I am actually glad to see it. The goliaths were the best part of the book IMO and make a great player race. For those of who like the realms setting and the goliaths having them introduced isgreat becuase in reality the Reams is the core setting. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 04 Sep 2004 : 03:38:25
quote:
Originally posted by BobROE
I did groan, I don't see why everything from every book must be included in the realms.
Actually, so did I. When I read that yesterday I shook my head in disappointment and sighed. |
| BobROE |
Posted - 04 Sep 2004 : 03:28:32
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
I hope to God that the Goliaths do NOT make it into the Realms... the Realms have endured, along the years, how shall I say: a lot of silly imports, and I truly hope that the FR designers have enough weird races, monster nations and demi-planes to worry about for a few years without bringing in more crap. Sorry, but please let the Realms designers, for two minutes, worry about the impact of the Shades and the Star Elves a little before asking them to cater to every "Core D&D Book of the Month" (for there is nearly a new one every month, isn't there?)
This is going to make you groan then. :)
I did groan, I don't see why everything from every book must be included in the realms. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 04 Sep 2004 : 00:02:58
<slaps himself in the forehead in utter dissappointment upon hearing the despoiling of the Snowflake Mountains...> |
| Kuje |
Posted - 03 Sep 2004 : 23:00:52
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
I hope to God that the Goliaths do NOT make it into the Realms... the Realms have endured, along the years, how shall I say: a lot of silly imports, and I truly hope that the FR designers have enough weird races, monster nations and demi-planes to worry about for a few years without bringing in more crap. Sorry, but please let the Realms designers, for two minutes, worry about the impact of the Shades and the Star Elves a little before asking them to cater to every "Core D&D Book of the Month" (for there is nearly a new one every month, isn't there?)
This is going to make you groan then. :)
Rich posteded this on 9/2/04, yesterday.
"We're looking at that question and trying to figure out how we want to do that. When somebody invents a cool new race for core D&D, we'd like to accommodate them in the Realms, but that always begs the question: Why didn't we tell you about these guys before? We may have an answer in an upcoming 2005 product.
(I doubt we'll invent a major presence for goliaths, just because I personally don't want to explain in-game why they never appeared in any earlier FR products. But we might pick an otherwise out of the way and little-known mountain range and say, "Oh, yeah, there's a few clanholds of goliaths up there. They don't get out much." Maybe the Snowflake or Orsraun Mountains, not very much has been written about those places.)" |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 03 Sep 2004 : 22:27:27
I hope to God that the Goliaths do NOT make it into the Realms... the Realms have endured, along the years, how shall I say: a lot of silly imports, and I truly hope that the FR designers have enough weird races, monster nations and demi-planes to worry about for a few years without bringing in more crap. Sorry, but please let the Realms designers, for two minutes, worry about the impact of the Shades and the Star Elves a little before asking them to cater to every "Core D&D Book of the Month" (for there is nearly a new one every month, isn't there?) |
| Bahgtru |
Posted - 02 Sep 2004 : 18:31:52
Goliaths to me appear to be a well thought out, well written race with a developed culture. They aren't like any of the other races and are included in ROS for geographical reasons. They populate the highest regions in Mountanious terrain. They give new definition to the term "highlander" |
| Lysander |
Posted - 02 Sep 2004 : 18:21:22
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
...and the inclusion of a completely new race is unnecessary.
I'm reserving my complete judgment on the goliaths until I have an opportunity to run them through a few campaigns. I'll admit though, that the appeal of this race as a whole, is growing on me... 
I have yet to lay hands on this tome... so I'm not sure what the Goliaths are. I keep thinking of "dwarves, writ large" - but wouldn't that effectively be a stone giant? (Or, looking further a'world, a DS half-giant? ) What niche do the Goliaths fill? New races can be fun, but I'd rather not have too many 'plug-and-play' replacements if I can help it (or, at least run too many of them in the same campaign). |
| Bahgtru |
Posted - 02 Sep 2004 : 18:19:38
Should the new major player race introduced in Races of Stone make its way into the realms? I wondered what it would be like to have a new major race but I am impressed with the Goliaths and hope they end up in one of the realms mountain ranges. |
| hammer of Moradin |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 20:29:54
Of all of the items added in this book, the inclusion of magic forges and Rune Circles intrigues me the most. Many old goblin and orc lairs were once dwarven strongholds, and to have the characters discover an old rune circle to turn the tide of a battle or encounter is something I may just have to try.
Plus, the new deities included add a little variety to the normal pantheons. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Aug 2004 : 10:20:09
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
The only downsides to these set of products are that there arent enough races covered, and the inclusion of a completely new race is unnecessary.
Actually, that was one of the aspects of the tome's content that I was the most pleased with. I'm glad to see each race finally getting the attention it deserves. While the inclusion of more "earthy" races would have been nice, it would have left less room for the authors to concentrate on the PHB races.
quote:
...and the inclusion of a completely new race is unnecessary.
I'm reserving my complete judgment on the goliaths until I have an opportunity to run them through a few campaigns. I'll admit though, that the appeal of this race as a whole, is growing on me...
|
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 24 Aug 2004 : 09:03:37
Well im quite impressed with the tome so far, ive yet to get into it in some depth but will post back here once ive given it some quality time. Initially, I was pleasantly surprised at the tomes usefulness.
The only downsides to these set of products are that there arent enough races covered, and the inclusion of a completely new race is unnecessary. Id have liked to have seen sections for Duergar, Svirfneblin and other such races in this tome for it to be the definative guide.
Im quite excited about Races of the Wild, as elves are more closer to my heart than dwarves etc.
Overall, I think these tomes are certainly worth picking up and are by no means any replacement for Races of Faerun, they offer completely different useful material. |
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