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Cosmar Posted - 07 Aug 2021 : 09:31:45
Hi all, I'm just wondering if any of you have encountered custom spells researched by PCs in any of your games, whether you were a player or a DM. How did they turn out? Were they as fun as you thought they would be? Can you give some examples of successfully researched custom spells? How was it adjudicated? I'm thinking of 3.5 specifically, I'm not sure if custom spells are a thing in 5th edition.

I've always loved the idea of PCs creating their own spells, but adjudicating their creation and use is always a thorny issue. I really liked the bones of the spell creation system presented in, I think, was it Tome and Blood, or maybe Complete Arcane? But I've yet to actually run or play a game where custom spell research actually occurred.
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
LordofBones Posted - 19 Oct 2021 : 08:22:53
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
I'm looking at FR-exclusive spells right now, and I really have to ask what's so wonderful about Aganazzar's scorcher. Others are just variations on existing spells. The weird and powerful ones are all high level spells created by Elminster and friends...and you can pretty much duplicate Elminster's evasion with Craft contingent spell.



Well, not every spell, of course. Still Aganazzar's scorcher did have a bit more too it before 3e-5e made it "it just does pew pew fire damage".

How about Ray of Ondovior it's only 2nd level and forces a target to repeat their actions from the last round. Oh, but then maybe it never got updated? It does depend where you are looking for spell too.

Also note Ondovior is not "Elminster and friends". Really the Realms has tons of powerful spellcasters that make spells.



Ray of Ondovir suffered from being too powerful for its level. Note that even 5th level's dominate person prevents self-destructive orders.
The Arcanamach Posted - 16 Oct 2021 : 19:53:43
GK: In the Baldur's Gate II video game there was a gnomish turnip salesman turned adventurer...I'm gonna have to reskin those cabbages into turnips now lol
The Arcanamach Posted - 16 Oct 2021 : 19:49:50
Bloodtide: Feel free (if you bother using the spell at all) to rewrite it to your liking. For my games, I don't have 'jerk' players who try to run roughshod over me, other players or the game in general to have to worry about the things you've mentioned. Sure, I get questions about what will/won't work or what I'll allow, but nothing of the caliber you're getting at. To sort of get to your points in a generalized way (I don't want to get bogged down in a needless debate): If the spell doesn't 'allow' something explicitly...then it probably won't be allowed in game (poison being an example...nothing in the description says the transmuted character is immune to poison, so they aren't immune to poison). That said, bringing up these points is exactly what play-testing these things is all about...to prevent abuse.
bloodtide_the_red Posted - 16 Oct 2021 : 16:13:12
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
I'm looking at FR-exclusive spells right now, and I really have to ask what's so wonderful about Aganazzar's scorcher. Others are just variations on existing spells. The weird and powerful ones are all high level spells created by Elminster and friends...and you can pretty much duplicate Elminster's evasion with Craft contingent spell.



Well, not every spell, of course. Still Aganazzar's scorcher did have a bit more too it before 3e-5e made it "it just does pew pew fire damage".

How about Ray of Ondovior it's only 2nd level and forces a target to repeat their actions from the last round. Oh, but then maybe it never got updated? It does depend where you are looking for spell too.

Also note Ondovior is not "Elminster and friends". Really the Realms has tons of powerful spellcasters that make spells.
Delnyn Posted - 16 Oct 2021 : 10:56:20
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

The weird and powerful ones are all high level spells created by Elminster and friends...and you can pretty much duplicate Elminster's evasion with Craft contingent spell.



LoB made a critical observation about metamagic and item creation spells from 1e and 2e getting moved over to feats in 3e (and Pathfinder). Considering 4e and 5e, I would say feats and skills are here to stay and the issue of custom spells has evolved into spells/feats/skills/tricks or any combination thereof.
LordofBones Posted - 16 Oct 2021 : 07:32:18
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red

quote:
Originally posted by Bugbear

So, for creating a custom spell, what exactly would you say is a Realms spell? Is there such a thing? Is there something about a spell that when you look at it, you'd say that it is a Realms spell?



Well, Realms books are full of spells but you won't see much agreement. Though far too many writers just don't put much effort into a spell section, and plenty hate crunch like spells.

For a Realms Spell, you really can only go to Ed Greenwood (maybe a couple others). So with that you would get:

1.Powerful. And not just damage dice. The spell has a huge noticable effect that can do quite an effect.

2.Complex. The spell has a LOT of effects...and side effects...and after effects and other effects.

3. Multiple uses. The spell does more...often much more then just one thing.

4.Unique. The spell does something unique, it's not just "a cold fireball".

5.Weird and Wonderful. Just reading the spell invokes images of awe and wonder. The casting of one of the spells is something special.

Algarth's embattlement, also known as box of spells, allowed a caster to cast more than one spell at a time.

Storm's Frozen Moment, can 'stop' someone for a round, even in midair.



I'm looking at FR-exclusive spells right now, and I really have to ask what's so wonderful about Aganazzar's scorcher. Others are just variations on existing spells. The weird and powerful ones are all high level spells created by Elminster and friends...and you can pretty much duplicate Elminster's evasion with Craft contingent spell.
bloodtide_the_red Posted - 16 Oct 2021 : 05:04:37
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

No, it's a spell that MIGHT bring a character back from death as a plant-like creature...one that the DM is free to retire from the game if deemed unworkable for any reason. And I'm curious as to what these demigod benefits are that you speak of? Doesn't need to eat anymore? Rarely a problem in games anyway. Lives a super long time? Never been a problem in games either. Nothing in the spell states that the creature takes on the Plant type with requisite benefits (that was 3e anyway, this spell was written for 2e).



That is the problem with the spell is it makes a creature a vague "plant" person with few specific rules. It has the wacky "slows down in the winter and has ability scores reduced to half" . Guess this happens on the first day of "winter" on a calendar? And the "sluggishness" does not effect movement rate at all.

Sure, the spell is written in 2E style: a couple of vague benefits that make no sense, along with some vague drawbacks that also make no sense. This is why 3X is nice has it adds a bit more details to the game like creature type rules.

The text does not say the 'plant person' needs to sleep like normal: so that means that someone can say the person can stay up forever. The text does not mention healing, so a person can say "oh heals 100 points of damage in sunlight".

The 'plant person' does not breathe, right? And is immune to gases and poison, right? See you can't have a benefit of "no food" and then just not say anything about poison. Does magical cold effect the plant person? Why not? Do 'plant' type spells effect the plant person? Do spells that effect living creatures that are not plants?

This is why 3X is nice with types. If this spell does NOT change a persons type...so you'd drop all the wacky drawbacks...then you fill in all the rule holes. The same is true if it does change the person type.
George Krashos Posted - 16 Oct 2021 : 00:59:46
I usually make up new spells on the fly during gaming sessions and write them up there and then (we are playing 3E because our DM (*cough* ... Eric Boyd ... *cough*) is a grognard. Stuff like:

Ybodís Desolate Disappointment
Enchantment (Charm) [Mind-affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Area: One humanoid creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

You launch a small bolt of roiling blackness at the target. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. The bolt deals 1d3 points of psychic damage.

Arazalís Cabbage Storm
Conjuration [Creation]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5ft./2 levels)
Area: Cylinder (20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high)
Duration: 1 full round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

A pile of cabbages rains down for 1 full round, dealing 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per caster level (maximum 12d4) to each creature within the area.

In addition, every creature in the area that tries to take a move action must make a Reflex saving throw or fall to the ground and remain prone for 1 round. It may act normally while prone but takes any appropriate penalties.

The cabbages wink out of existence after the spell duration is ended.

Material Component: A cabbage leaf.

(With accompanying Realmslore:

Dessar Cabbage

This cabbage is a smooth-leafed red (with purple outer leaves) vegetable grown as an annual crop for its dense-leaved heads. Under conditions of long sunny days, such as those found at high northern latitudes in summer in such places as the Sword Coast North, Dalelands and Sembia, cabbages can grow quite large. While most weigh in at 1-2 lbs., the heaviest cabbage ever recorded was 130 lb. and sold to the Amcathra Waterdhavian noble family for a grand feast by Parmoran Harpell of Longsaddle. Dessar cabbage is known to cause significant flatulence if consumed in quantity, and even has a mild laxative effect when eaten over an extended period. The leaves are known to have healing properties and confer a +1 circumstance bonus to Heal checks when used as a poultice for burn and contusion damage.)

-- George Krashos
The Arcanamach Posted - 15 Oct 2021 : 06:36:59
No, it's a spell that MIGHT bring a character back from death as a plant-like creature...one that the DM is free to retire from the game if deemed unworkable for any reason. And I'm curious as to what these demigod benefits are that you speak of? Doesn't need to eat anymore? Rarely a problem in games anyway. Lives a super long time? Never been a problem in games either. Nothing in the spell states that the creature takes on the Plant type with requisite benefits (that was 3e anyway, this spell was written for 2e).
bloodtide_the_red Posted - 15 Oct 2021 : 02:03:56
quote:
Originally posted by Bugbear

So, for creating a custom spell, what exactly would you say is a Realms spell? Is there such a thing? Is there something about a spell that when you look at it, you'd say that it is a Realms spell?



Well, Realms books are full of spells but you won't see much agreement. Though far too many writers just don't put much effort into a spell section, and plenty hate crunch like spells.

For a Realms Spell, you really can only go to Ed Greenwood (maybe a couple others). So with that you would get:

1.Powerful. And not just damage dice. The spell has a huge noticable effect that can do quite an effect.

2.Complex. The spell has a LOT of effects...and side effects...and after effects and other effects.

3. Multiple uses. The spell does more...often much more then just one thing.

4.Unique. The spell does something unique, it's not just "a cold fireball".

5.Weird and Wonderful. Just reading the spell invokes images of awe and wonder. The casting of one of the spells is something special.

Algarth's embattlement, also known as box of spells, allowed a caster to cast more than one spell at a time.

Storm's Frozen Moment, can 'stop' someone for a round, even in midair.

----------------------

Xylemic Transfusion. A 4th level spell that ploymorphs a person in to a Plant Type creature?

Even with all the complex stuff in the middle....this is just Reincarnation.

So this spell that is basically "change type to Plant" is still roughly a 7th level spell.

Just give it the jerk player test: So a player wants a character to become the plant type of all the mechanical benefits, exploits and outright cheats. The DM can sit there and cackle to themselves for hours about all the "oohh, you loose a small amount of HP and have to sit around and grow like a tree...hehehehe". And the player just shrughs, "whatever...so after a week my character is a uber powerful plant type demigod.

Really, to change a characters creature type should be a lot more then a spell. This is more for a ritual or a prestige class. Or a very high level spell.


The Arcanamach Posted - 14 Oct 2021 : 18:25:40
Actually never thought of that but, yes, I'd rule that such spells would harm them and the blight spell would be devastating.
Delnyn Posted - 14 Oct 2021 : 17:25:19
Does the target acquire vulnerabilities specific to plant creatures while the spell lasts? I was thinking a warp wood effect could deform the target.

quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Sort of I guess. I generally think spells that are 'creative' in nature are 'Realms' spells. Example: A reskinned spell (say fireball reskinned to 'necrotic blast' that does negative energy damage) isn't what I'd necessarily call a Realms spell. At least, not in the context that I believe you're getting at. However, this spell that I came up with would strike me as a 'Realms' spell:

Xylemic Transfusion (Necromantic, Transmutation)
Level: 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Touch
Effect: See below
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Yes (Will negates)
Spell Resistance: Yes

This druidic spell allows the caster to heal another creature of all manner of damage, disease or poison and can even restore lost limbs and organs and, in some cases, even restore the dead to life. Druids rarely cast this spell, however, as it requires plant matter from a healthy tree that is destroyed in the process. Still, the sacrifice is sometimes deemed worthwhile and druids will always plant several new trees as compensation to Nature for their actions.

When cast, the recipient must eat the plant matter raw. If unable to do so, the caster must inject or otherwise implant the material into the host or the spell will not work. Once accomplished, the recipient will begin growing small roots that grow into the ground while also being covered in vines and leaves much like a cocoon. The roots begin drawing nutrients from the ground while the magic of the spell enhances and transforms them into whatever is needed to effect the purification and healing of the recipient. These growths disappear at a rate of 10% per day after the spell runs its course.

The process is long (and painful) with 12 hit points being restored per hour. After 3 hours, any disease carried by the recipient is healed. After 6 hours, the effects of any poison or venom are eliminated. Also, if the druid casting the spell is of at least 13th level and the host was dead AND enough healing occurs within the duration of the spell to bring the recipient from death to 100% restored health, then that individual's life may be restored. To succeed, the recipient must succeed on a Constitution check (not a save). If successful, they are brought back to life. But there is something of a cost...

The individual brought back to life is altered into a plant-based form. They retain all of their abilities, alignment and personality but their skin typically becomes green or brown with the appearance of leaves or bark, respectively. Hair is transformed into a mass of small vines and leaves and the eyes are almost always a deep/dark green coloration. Henceforth, the individual requires water and sunlight to survive and no longer requires food (nor do they excrete waste as they once did). It is up to the DM whether such a character remains playable... but too much time spent underground will cause such a character to whither and, eventually, die (effectively losing a full hit die each day they go without both water and sunlight). Furthermore, such individuals typically become very sluggish during the winter months (reduce all ability scores by half during that time).

However, the lifespan of such an individual is multiplied by ten. Thus, a human who should have lived 70 years will now live for 7 centuries.


The Arcanamach Posted - 14 Oct 2021 : 16:20:50
Sort of I guess. I generally think spells that are 'creative' in nature are 'Realms' spells. Example: A reskinned spell (say fireball reskinned to 'necrotic blast' that does negative energy damage) isn't what I'd necessarily call a Realms spell. At least, not in the context that I believe you're getting at. However, this spell that I came up with would strike me as a 'Realms' spell:

Xylemic Transfusion (Necromantic, Transmutation)
Level: 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Touch
Effect: See below
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Yes (Will negates)
Spell Resistance: Yes

This druidic spell allows the caster to heal another creature of all manner of damage, disease or poison and can even restore lost limbs and organs and, in some cases, even restore the dead to life. Druids rarely cast this spell, however, as it requires plant matter from a healthy tree that is destroyed in the process. Still, the sacrifice is sometimes deemed worthwhile and druids will always plant several new trees as compensation to Nature for their actions.

When cast, the recipient must eat the plant matter raw. If unable to do so, the caster must inject or otherwise implant the material into the host or the spell will not work. Once accomplished, the recipient will begin growing small roots that grow into the ground while also being covered in vines and leaves much like a cocoon. The roots begin drawing nutrients from the ground while the magic of the spell enhances and transforms them into whatever is needed to effect the purification and healing of the recipient. These growths disappear at a rate of 10% per day after the spell runs its course.

The process is long (and painful) with 12 hit points being restored per hour. After 3 hours, any disease carried by the recipient is healed. After 6 hours, the effects of any poison or venom are eliminated. Also, if the druid casting the spell is of at least 13th level and the host was dead AND enough healing occurs within the duration of the spell to bring the recipient from death to 100% restored health, then that individual's life may be restored. To succeed, the recipient must succeed on a Constitution check (not a save). If successful, they are brought back to life. But there is something of a cost...

The individual brought back to life is altered into a plant-based form. They retain all of their abilities, alignment and personality but their skin typically becomes green or brown with the appearance of leaves or bark, respectively. Hair is transformed into a mass of small vines and leaves and the eyes are almost always a deep/dark green coloration. Henceforth, the individual requires water and sunlight to survive and no longer requires food (nor do they excrete waste as they once did). It is up to the DM whether such a character remains playable... but too much time spent underground will cause such a character to whither and, eventually, die (effectively losing a full hit die each day they go without both water and sunlight). Furthermore, such individuals typically become very sluggish during the winter months (reduce all ability scores by half during that time).

However, the lifespan of such an individual is multiplied by ten. Thus, a human who should have lived 70 years will now live for 7 centuries.
Bugbear Posted - 14 Oct 2021 : 01:20:11
So, for creating a custom spell, what exactly would you say is a Realms spell? Is there such a thing? Is there something about a spell that when you look at it, you'd say that it is a Realms spell?
The Arcanamach Posted - 05 Oct 2021 : 14:35:04
Maybe we need to sticky a "Spell Scrolls" section then since the Magic Shop includes items in it? As for organization, I eventually swapped to keeping everything on a flash drive that I port over to a new on once a year (in case a drive starts to degrade). I have megatons of material on it from pdfs, art, homebrew stuff, etc.
sleyvas Posted - 03 Oct 2021 : 19:14:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

The problem for me becomes finding them again.... so much stuff I wrote up 25 years back that I have no idea where it is anymore because I change computers every 2 or 3 years (even more often now that I have a laptop and a desktop that I keep in different areas of of the house). I'm actually surprised when I find a lot of stuff that I've posted here over the years (like I found my old lecture on spell strategy in 2e last week via google that I had re-posted in 2006 in another discussion on spell strategy).



This is why I long ago got into the habit of having two hard drives in my computer. One for the software, one for everything else. Comes time to swap computers, grab that second hard drive and toss it into the new computer.

I don't need to do that any more, though, since I got a NAS set up.



Yeah, I've kinda started doing that over the last 10 years (copying files to an external storage). Still, while I'm pretty organized, there's always things that develop along the way. For instance, in the last 2 years, I went on a stint of being really interested in 3d design, which also included some 3d painting, which also included using some of those 3d images in stuff I was working on. So, I have some 3d pictures in one directory, some in the directories with the 3d objects, and some in the directories with the projects they were associated with. Similar things often happen with other types of projects I work with (like when I got on a heraldry kick). I also now have a few thousand 3d models downloaded from thingiverse that I often use to modify something to create an image that I want, and those are kind of haphazardly organized as well, because some are in the animals directory... some in the rabbits directory... some in the horses directory... deer heads in the horns directory... roman centurions in a directory named after that, but also a humans directory because I ended up with so many human models, etc....
Wooly Rupert Posted - 03 Oct 2021 : 18:37:04
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

The problem for me becomes finding them again.... so much stuff I wrote up 25 years back that I have no idea where it is anymore because I change computers every 2 or 3 years (even more often now that I have a laptop and a desktop that I keep in different areas of of the house). I'm actually surprised when I find a lot of stuff that I've posted here over the years (like I found my old lecture on spell strategy in 2e last week via google that I had re-posted in 2006 in another discussion on spell strategy).



This is why I long ago got into the habit of having two hard drives in my computer. One for the software, one for everything else. Comes time to swap computers, grab that second hard drive and toss it into the new computer.

I don't need to do that any more, though, since I got a NAS set up.
TheIriaeban Posted - 03 Oct 2021 : 16:00:21
I started computerizing my stuff back in the early 80's and I always made sure to keep copies. Little did I know that simple 5 page rich text file was going to end up as a 600 page Word doc. I have dropped a couple demi-human spells (one combat, one fluff) in the Magic Shop.
sleyvas Posted - 03 Oct 2021 : 13:59:14
The problem for me becomes finding them again.... so much stuff I wrote up 25 years back that I have no idea where it is anymore because I change computers every 2 or 3 years (even more often now that I have a laptop and a desktop that I keep in different areas of of the house). I'm actually surprised when I find a lot of stuff that I've posted here over the years (like I found my old lecture on spell strategy in 2e last week via google that I had re-posted in 2006 in another discussion on spell strategy).
bloodtide_the_red Posted - 03 Oct 2021 : 03:54:40
Is the "magic shop" for spells too? I thought it was just for magic items. I was always sad Candlekeep never had a Homebrew section, even more so one for spells.

So do we really just add spells to the magic shop mess? Maybe just wait forever for someone to create a Spell Emporium thread? (though as that has never happened, doubt it ever will).
The Arcanamach Posted - 02 Oct 2021 : 01:03:13
Okay folks, put all those spells you've developed over the years in the CK Magic Shop located here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=893

I've put mine there (I may have missed a few over the years) and I absolutely LOVE new spells and items.

The Masked Mage Posted - 06 Sep 2021 : 00:18:53
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
For instance, tying a suggestion spell into a whispering wind.... interesting idea.



I do recall two effect similar to this, both forms a translocation. Fist was a "teleport" of a spell effect. The second was a "dimension door" or gateway effect called spelldoor.
sleyvas Posted - 05 Sep 2021 : 17:34:33
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmar

I agree generally that already written material from somewhere covers pretty much everything needed. I think custom spells at this point often are more about flavor, or maybe combining effects of other individual spells.

For example, (and please someone let me know if this was already published somewhere), I had an idea for a "Spell Wind" spell, which would act like the Whispering Wind spell, except you can cast another spell in conjunction with it to be "attached" to the Whispering Wind and released upon the Wind arriving at its destination, after the message is delivered. (Only certain kinds of spells can be attached and only up to a certain level for Lesser/Greater Spell Wind - I was thinking Lesser being 4th level and allowing up to 3rd-level spells being attached to it, with Greater being 7th level and allowing up to 6th-level spells being attached to it.)

Though my primary experience is with 3rd edition, I started D&D in 2nd edition, and I do like how 5th edition has scaled back the vast crunchiness of 3rd edition and done a decent job of balancing every kind of play. Magic is still powerful, but not necessarily as much as a be-all-end-all, and the power curve has been flattened a bit to make low-level play a lot less painful for casters. (A level 1 wizard in 5e is capable of much more sustained badassery than a level 1 3rd edition wizard, but a 20th-level wizard is much less capable of Total Domination in 5e than in 3e or 2e).



For instance, tying a suggestion spell into a whispering wind.... interesting idea.
Cosmar Posted - 05 Sep 2021 : 06:00:51
I agree generally that already written material from somewhere covers pretty much everything needed. I think custom spells at this point often are more about flavor, or maybe combining effects of other individual spells.

For example, (and please someone let me know if this was already published somewhere), I had an idea for a "Spell Wind" spell, which would act like the Whispering Wind spell, except you can cast another spell in conjunction with it to be "attached" to the Whispering Wind and released upon the Wind arriving at its destination, after the message is delivered. (Only certain kinds of spells can be attached and only up to a certain level for Lesser/Greater Spell Wind - I was thinking Lesser being 4th level and allowing up to 3rd-level spells being attached to it, with Greater being 7th level and allowing up to 6th-level spells being attached to it.)

Though my primary experience is with 3rd edition, I started D&D in 2nd edition, and I do like how 5th edition has scaled back the vast crunchiness of 3rd edition and done a decent job of balancing every kind of play. Magic is still powerful, but not necessarily as much as a be-all-end-all, and the power curve has been flattened a bit to make low-level play a lot less painful for casters. (A level 1 wizard in 5e is capable of much more sustained badassery than a level 1 3rd edition wizard, but a 20th-level wizard is much less capable of Total Domination in 5e than in 3e or 2e).
The Masked Mage Posted - 04 Sep 2021 : 16:22:00
For the most part, custom spells I have made were either fully detailed versions of spells just referred to off-hand in a publication, or a specific-for-a-purpose in-game spell, usually only used one time. I have always been a fan of phantasmal-type spells, like Bigby's hands or Mordenkainen's Shield maidens, etc., or spells that have an effect on other spells.

In general, the spells made way back in the day (and slight variations on them) cover pretty much everything needed in game.
sleyvas Posted - 04 Sep 2021 : 16:09:29
quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red

With spells, and most rules, the problem is more no editors.....and that is really no rule content editors. Sure they have the fancy non-rule normal professional editor types to make sure the verbs have the right usage. But no one to look at RPG rules.

And a LOT of spells can be fixed with just a single line. For example, my Gate fix: The caster has NO CONTROL WHATSOEVER of any creature summoned by this spell(but is free to use other means to do so). See, perfect easy fix: summon whatever the caster wants....but you have no control over it.

And spells, like most rules, it does depend on how you play the game. The book rules are written for some beyond odd way of playing the game.

Most often this comes down to Legalize. All that text to make things ok. "This spell requires concentration" , "this spell can not effect the duration of other spells" and so on. You see a bit of it in the core rules...and then they missed like 1,000 things.



All I can say to this is "yes". Also, unfortunately, as spells change over time, older DM's then have to comb through the changes to spells, because we may not realize that some component was removed, or the spell can be cast as a reaction in this version which is why they lessened its power, etc....
bloodtide_the_red Posted - 03 Sep 2021 : 01:16:15
With spells, and most rules, the problem is more no editors.....and that is really no rule content editors. Sure they have the fancy non-rule normal professional editor types to make sure the verbs have the right usage. But no one to look at RPG rules.

And a LOT of spells can be fixed with just a single line. For example, my Gate fix: The caster has NO CONTROL WHATSOEVER of any creature summoned by this spell(but is free to use other means to do so). See, perfect easy fix: summon whatever the caster wants....but you have no control over it.

And spells, like most rules, it does depend on how you play the game. The book rules are written for some beyond odd way of playing the game.

Most often this comes down to Legalize. All that text to make things ok. "This spell requires concentration" , "this spell can not effect the duration of other spells" and so on. You see a bit of it in the core rules...and then they missed like 1,000 things.
sleyvas Posted - 02 Sep 2021 : 16:26:47
That's true. It may have been the editors that chopped the spells down. I honestly don't see that in most situations though, as its not necessarily a lot of extra text that would be needed for this instance (stress on those last 3 words), and it would be easier to eliminate a whole spell to save space than to nitpick sentences throughout a bunch of spells trying to save space. Either way though, the original examples of those spells in 2e were pretty broken, and from the frames of that though arose discussions, and then in 3e we started to see fixing of it. We see that a lot in D&D across editions. For instance, I would argue that the warlock concept in 3.5e was pretty broken, but in 5e they've improved the mechanics (note, I say improved, not perfected... I like the concepts of warlocks in 5e better, but there is room for improvement.... same for sorcerers). The concept comes out in one edition and gets improved (in the case of sorcerers they weren't overpowered in the previous edition, just not well balanced).

Oh, and the statement about making Dalamar a drow.... yeah, I shake my head every time. You know what though... would it be interesting if the fact that he travelled outside Krynnspace (i.e. wizard's three articles has him at least going to earth) somehow "hit" him with the High Magic curse that affected the drow. Thinking that idea might piss a lot of people off though, but it would be a fix.
TBeholder Posted - 02 Sep 2021 : 09:09:49
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Well, I love Ed's spell making, but he's a classic example for me. He came up with a plethora of ideas in Seven Sisters/Magister, etc..., many before anyone else.... and thus he was treading new ground with little to work from... but a lot of those 2e spells can pretty easily be broken. For instance, with 2e mechanics, rainbow shield could be turned into an amazing buffing/healing spell rather than the intended variation on "hurt those who hit me" spells. Similarly, he had another spell which could just rip through most defenses and lay waste to undead spellcasters in that edition (think it was like Maw of Chaos or somesuch).

That being said, I don't want you to think I'm ripping on him... again, he had nothing to work from. We have the advantage of seeing his concept and fixing it.

Or he sends stuff that's viable and actually play-tested, but since he cannot write short, it went right under the Shears of Doom every time, and the editors were... well, at best one notch above whoever made Dalamar a drow.
See also: Spellfire. And most likely Viper ship in Spelljammer (it was published with ludicrous stats, but the hint of why is that it's given a second name as modifications are, and IIRC text says these are often augmented to the yingyang with magic items).

As to rainbow shield, all it needs is one extra condition (matching example part, perhaps "area affecting"). In addition to implicit conditions, such as summons are not applicable due to not being cast at a target.
bloodtide_the_red Posted - 28 Aug 2021 : 22:18:53
The 2E Realms had some elf spells, but they were mostly generic and without much flavor. Elves of Evermeet had spells like Fatigue and Discord. And it had some nice spell ideas, like faire sword, but that just did damage with a random dull combat effect. The Myth Drannor boxed set kind of forgets about elves, but has a bunch of spells from others. And the Volo book skip over the elves with a silly "oh the elves don't like Volo, move along". The Complete book of elves has a tiny amount of spells like Camouflage.

It's only Cormanthyr skips over giving many spells, but the Fall of Myth Drannor do we get interesting elven spells. Though they are a mixed bag of random spells. The Seven Sisters and the Secrets of the Magister have some "elven" spells.

3E hardly had any elf magic spells at all, though a couple were taken from 2E and made generic to fill out crunch spell sections. Too often the elves are just given "generic human magic" and it's not even really called elven magic.

In general I keep elven magic mostly nature based, including astronomy(sun, moon, stars). A lot more primal, wild type spells. A lot of spells that blur the line between druid spells. Plus mental and time spells. And Fey, Farire, otherwoldly spells. And a good mix of illusion and enchantment type spells.

In my own homebrew I give elves spells like:

Animate Fallen Plants and Animate Nature: basically "natural animate object". Both a generic spells to animate a mass of fallen trees, sticks, leaves and rocks; to more direct spells like Rolling Log or wall of leafs.

Lost in the Wild-a confusion curse to...well, make people get lost in the wild.

Animal Mind-another curse that makes someone have the mind of an animal.

Glimpse of eternity yet another curse that calls upon the ancestral memory and experience of long-lived elves and vist all that on a single creature.

I add in "dirty" spells, for the Gold Elves, as they hate the whole "dirty" side of life. So spells like Mudbolt(aka reflavored scorching ray) is a common spell for them both to use on each other and the "lesser races".

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